Eratosthenes

Quote from: Thunderwolf on October 18, 2021, 09:32:16 AM

Quote from: John Davis on October 18, 2021, 01:37:41 AM

... His work was lifted five times over and base as f___ ...

Having never encountered it before, I had to look up the meme "base as f___."  It means "agreeable" and "worthy of support."

Does it now... perhaps you need to review the definition of base. And while you are at it, lift.

That you been swimming again John?

He proved the earth was a sphere 2000 years ago

No, he didn't.
He already knew it was a sphere, and measured the size of it.
The 2 measurements of the shadows, alone, is not enough to prove Earth is a sphere.

There is a big difference between proving something and providing evidence for it.  In my view science has never been about proving anything but rather providing evidence for the most likely explanation.

The FE Wiki has always insisted that Eratosthenes was actually setting out to measure the diameter of the flat Earth...

https://theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Eratosthenes+on+Diameter

But I cannot find any other mentions of this other than the FE claim on this page. All other mentions about Eratosthenes that I can find only talk about him setting out to the circumference of the Earth because he already knew it was spherical.  And clearly the measurement Eratosthenes came to could only be one for the circumference.  You cannot have a sphere whose circumference is equal to its diameter!  D=C/pi so how could you work out the diameter of a circle unless you could work out its circumference first?

Obviously a 25,000 mile circle can be straightened out to form a 25,000 mile straight line.  Which is presumably how the FE version works out. That would be OK providing the Sun was placed a lot closer to us than it actually is.  So rather than discount this version because we know the Sun isn't that close by other methods, FE simply fudge the result by saying that proves the Sun is much closer than it actually is. Which makes their version appear correct! But that fails ultimately as explained below.

https://flatearth.ws/eratosthenes

Quote from: Timeisup on November 15, 2021, 12:46:56 AM

He proved the earth was a sphere 2000 years ago

No, he didn't.
He already knew it was a sphere, and measured the size of it.
The 2 measurements of the shadows, alone, is not enough to prove Earth is a sphere.

How would clever old Dr Black prove it?

Quote from: Timeisup on November 15, 2021, 12:46:56 AM

He proved the earth was a sphere 2000 years ago

No, he didn't.
He already knew it was a sphere, and measured the size of it.
The 2 measurements of the shadows, alone, is not enough to prove Earth is a sphere.

If you had taken the time to read it I actually said who cares what the ancient Greek guy did or did not do. We’re you actually there to document it?

Quote from: JackBlack on November 15, 2021, 02:48:56 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on November 15, 2021, 12:46:56 AM

He proved the earth was a sphere 2000 years ago

No, he didn't.
He already knew it was a sphere, and measured the size of it.
The 2 measurements of the shadows, alone, is not enough to prove Earth is a sphere.

If you had taken the time to read it I actually said who cares what the ancient Greek guy did or did not do. We’re you actually there to document it?

It's commonly cited that his experiment (whether it ocurred or not, I wasn't there) was a measurement given the already excepted notion that earth is spherical. Somehow in popular culture it's been misinterpreted as he was experimenting to find evidence that earth is spherical. Because of the misinterpretation, FE's sometimes uses it erroneously against a globe model. So it's important to make and know the distinction.

How would clever old Dr Black prove it?

If only there was some forum you could read through to find out.

Maybe if you weren't such a condescending prick that wants to pretend to know everything I might help you find it.

If you had taken the time to read it I actually said who cares what the ancient Greek guy did or did not do.

And if you had bothered to take the time to read the thread, you would have seen I already said that.

But that is just deflecting from your failure. Saying one thing doesn't mean you didn't say another.
And you actually did say it proved Earth was a sphere.
Now, would I object to your statement which I agree with, or with the one which is completely false?

Quote from: Timeisup on November 15, 2021, 02:43:32 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on November 15, 2021, 02:48:56 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on November 15, 2021, 12:46:56 AM

He proved the earth was a sphere 2000 years ago

No, he didn't.
He already knew it was a sphere, and measured the size of it.
The 2 measurements of the shadows, alone, is not enough to prove Earth is a sphere.

If you had taken the time to read it I actually said who cares what the ancient Greek guy did or did not do. We’re you actually there to document it?

It's commonly cited that his experiment (whether it ocurred or not, I wasn't there) was a measurement given the already excepted notion that earth is spherical. Somehow in popular culture it's been misinterpreted as he was experimenting to find evidence that earth is spherical. Because of the misinterpretation, FE's sometimes uses it erroneously against a globe model. So it's important to make and know the distinction.

As I said it may well have been of interest 2000 years ago and of some interest still to historians but it has rather been superseded by various advancements in the intervening years. The real mystery is why flat earth believers still love to bang on about 2000 year old news.

As I said it may well have been of interest 2000 years ago and of some interest still to historians but it has rather been superseded by various advancements in the intervening years. The real mystery is why flat earth believers still love to bang on about 2000 year old news.

Because people like you like talking about it and claiming it proves Earth is a sphere.

I don't think the main modern interest in Eratosthenes lies in what he did but rather how he did it. Without the benefit of the sort of equipment or data we have available to us today, he was still able to achieve a measurement for the circumference of the Earth which was incredibly close to the modern accepted value. His experiment is well documented and has been repeated many times since by a lot of different groups (many or all of whom have no interest in FET whatsoever) with consistent results. That's more than can be said for any of Sceptimatics 'simple experiments'...  (what has happened to dear old Scepti anyway.. haven't seen him post for a while now.)

That is what stands out for me at least. Flat Earthers meanwhile are happy to accept the findings of some guy from the mid-19th century who placed some flags in a canal as proof that the Earth is flat!

Quote from: Timeisup on November 15, 2021, 02:59:06 PM

As I said it may well have been of interest 2000 years ago and of some interest still to historians but it has rather been superseded by various advancements in the intervening years. The real mystery is why flat earth believers still love to bang on about 2000 year old news.

Because people like you like talking about it and claiming it proves Earth is a sphere.

Still proclaiming to be the font of all knowledge, all gained through some mysterious process free from experts. How did you acquire your information on the Greek historical character you and others are so fond of. Did you conduct a seance in Greek? What he did in his day, based on what expert historians tell us, looks quite interesting. Though I assume you have developed some secret methods for circumference calculations that you keep to yourself.
You do love to nit pick. According to the expert historians, the main reason why he did this experiment was to calculate the circumference of the earth that he  already knew was a sphere. It’s no big secret. Things that tend to have a circumference are normally spherical. How’s the original experiments you have designed coming along to prove the earth is a sphere? Though its as much use as your other one that attempted to prove the wetness of water.

Still proclaiming to be the font of all knowledge, all gained through some mysterious process free from experts.

Still blatantly lying about things to pretend you are better than everyone else.
If you want to pull that crap again, go revive the thread and you can keep getting your ass handed to you.

For this thread, stick to the topic.
You proclaimed that Eratosthenes proved Earth was a sphere.
When that was pointed out, you just pulled your normal childish BS by insulting people and deflecting.

Perhaps a more direct question would help:
Where you wrong when you said:

He proved the earth was a sphere 2000 years ago which was a big deal then.

Yes or no?

According to the expert historians, the main reason why he did this experiment was to calculate the circumference of the earth that he  already knew was a sphere. It’s no big secret.

If it's no big secret, why did you falsely claim he proved Earth was a sphere?

Again, that is why it is talked about so much, people like you falsely claiming he proved it is a sphere.
This results in people like John and other FEers saying that that relies upon assuming Earth is a sphere, and that the same measurements would work on a FE.

I think it is basically true to say that is was known in Eratosthenes day that the Earth was round but not known exactly how big the Earth was.

So Eratosthenes used his own mathematical reasoning and deduction as a scientist to work out a way of measuring the Earths circumference. He wouldn't have had any way of checking his result so the figure he reached was simply accepted until anyone could present a better answer.

As it is, by modern methods we have been able to confirm that his figure was actually very accurate. In the meantime flat Earthers have chipped away at all this to find a way of making out it was the diameter of the Earth he was measuring and not the circumference.  Unfortunately their method also produces different distances for the Sun indicating that it is wrong.

Quote from: Timeisup on November 17, 2021, 12:07:39 AM

Still proclaiming to be the font of all knowledge, all gained through some mysterious process free from experts.

Still blatantly lying about things to pretend you are better than everyone else.
If you want to pull that crap again, go revive the thread and you can keep getting your ass handed to you.

For this thread, stick to the topic.
You proclaimed that Eratosthenes proved Earth was a sphere.
When that was pointed out, you just pulled your normal childish BS by insulting people and deflecting.

Perhaps a more direct question would help:
Where you wrong when you said:

Quote from: Timeisup on November 15, 2021, 12:46:56 AM

He proved the earth was a sphere 2000 years ago which was a big deal then.

Yes or no?

Quote from: Timeisup on November 17, 2021, 12:07:39 AM

According to the expert historians, the main reason why he did this experiment was to calculate the circumference of the earth that he  already knew was a sphere. It’s no big secret.

If it's no big secret, why did you falsely claim he proved Earth was a sphere?

Again, that is why it is talked about so much, people like you falsely claiming he proved it is a sphere.
This results in people like John and other FEers saying that that relies upon assuming Earth is a sphere, and that the same measurements would work on a FE.

Your off on your must be lying rant already, by god you must be rattled.
In regard to the Greek stick man, there can’t be many sources about what he did so we must all be working from the same one apart from you of course, what with your super power of channeling or whatever way you claim to come by knowledge all on your lonesome.
I claimed nothing, he did what he did with his sticks all these years ago.., but  who cares? I drive a car have internet access have computers, Who needs sticks? I don’t do you?
So Dr. Black what lies have I unleashed on you in this post? As regards my ass it’s been where it’s always been, certainly   never handled by you!

Your off on your must be lying rant already, by god you must be rattled.

Not a rant, just calling you out on your dishonest BS.

I claimed nothing

And there you go with same old lies. You claim pure BS, get called out on it and then pretend you never did.
Here is your comment from earlier:

He proved the earth was a sphere 2000 years ago which was a big deal then.

If this isn't you claiming he proved Earth was a sphere, just what is it?

Again, nice and simple, were you wrong when you claimed he proved Earth was a sphere?
Yes or no?

Can you grow up and admit you are wrong, or can you only continue with this dishonest BS, acting like you are god and can do no wrong?

Quote from: Timeisup on November 17, 2021, 11:12:54 AM

Your off on your must be lying rant already, by god you must be rattled.

Not a rant, just calling you out on your dishonest BS.

Quote from: Timeisup on November 17, 2021, 11:12:54 AM

I claimed nothing

And there you go with same old lies. You claim pure BS, get called out on it and then pretend you never did.
Here is your comment from earlier:

Quote from: Timeisup on November 15, 2021, 12:46:56 AM

He proved the earth was a sphere 2000 years ago which was a big deal then.

If this isn't you claiming he proved Earth was a sphere, just what is it?

Again, nice and simple, were you wrong when you claimed he proved Earth was a sphere?
Yes or no?

Can you grow up and admit you are wrong, or can you only continue with this dishonest BS, acting like you are god and can do no wrong?

Dishonest where?
Bullshit Ditto where?

Stuck for a comeback you always revert to your two good old standbys:
Claim lies
Claim bullshit

When it comes to both you are preeminent.

Whenever I ask you to quote one of my many alleged lies you shrink away.

If you want to know what he did with his sticks go look it up it’s all there in the historical documents.

Why is it so important to you what I think he did when it’s laid out in the historical document? In the end who really cares as it was a long long time ago and things have moved on, or haven’t you noticed?

Go look it up. The ideas that you can come by that kind of knowledge by any other route is crazy….. or do you claim to have a time machine?…not Dr Black but Dr Who!

[Timmy sounds]

Welcome back. Would you like to stop deflecting and spamming the same noise, and instead deal with the very direct question you were asked about a statement you made that appears to be in conflict with your position?

Dishonest where?

How about here:

I claimed nothing

He proved the earth was a sphere 2000 years ago which was a big deal then.

Whenever I ask you to quote one of my many alleged lies you shrink away.

No, when you ask, I provide a quote and you just ignore it.
Another example of your blatant dishonesty.

Why is it so important to you what I think

It isn't a matter of what you think.
It is a matter of what you falsely claimed in a public forum, which is factually incorrect, while you try to pretend you are better than everyone else and can do no wrong.


Again, you falsely claimed he proved Earth was a sphere.
This claim of yours is wrong and instead, as you later said, he already knew Earth was a sphere and was just determine the size of this sphere, which has the implication he was not proving Earth was a sphere.

Are you capable of owning up to your mistake, or can you only participate while pretending you are the best person here who can never make a mistake?
Can you directly admit that you were wrong when you claimed he proved Earth was a sphere?

(Which again, is the kind of claim which causes FEers to talk about it so much)

Quote from: Timeisup on November 17, 2021, 01:23:16 PM

Dishonest where?

How about here:

Quote from: Timeisup on November 17, 2021, 11:12:54 AM

I claimed nothing

Quote from: Timeisup on November 15, 2021, 12:46:56 AM

He proved the earth was a sphere 2000 years ago which was a big deal then.

Quote from: Timeisup on November 17, 2021, 01:23:16 PM

Whenever I ask you to quote one of my many alleged lies you shrink away.

No, when you ask, I provide a quote and you just ignore it.
Another example of your blatant dishonesty.

Quote from: Timeisup on November 17, 2021, 01:23:16 PM

Why is it so important to you what I think

It isn't a matter of what you think.
It is a matter of what you falsely claimed in a public forum, which is factually incorrect, while you try to pretend you are better than everyone else and can do no wrong.


Again, you falsely claimed he proved Earth was a sphere.
This claim of yours is wrong and instead, as you later said, he already knew Earth was a sphere and was just determine the size of this sphere, which has the implication he was not proving Earth was a sphere.

Are you capable of owning up to your mistake, or can you only participate while pretending you are the best person here who can never make a mistake?
Can you directly admit that you were wrong when you claimed he proved Earth was a sphere?

(Which again, is the kind of claim which causes FEers to talk about it so much)

What’s wrong with you? Own up to what? That your are a prize prat?
Ok you’re a prat,
The earth is a sphere it’s no secret ask Aristotle. It’s been known for a long time, the Greek guy added to the proof by, measuring  its circumference, it’s tilt and all that good stuff. His experiment was not done in a vacuum. The accumulation of knowledge and all that! True it’s a given flat earth believers hate the experiment, but there you go. If you don’t like it then that’s your problem go back in time and have it out with him. For his time he did a grand job.

A proof is made up of a number of components and if you can’t understand that then that’s your problem. It works for me.

I also said   whatever the Greek guy did back then has no real  importance for the world of today, apart from it getting your panties in a twist.

His  stick experiment was a part of a larger body of  work that when put together did indeed prove the world was a sphere? He unlike you was a clever chap.

Quote from: JackBlack on November 17, 2021, 01:59:20 PM

Quote from: Timeisup on November 17, 2021, 01:23:16 PM

Dishonest where?

How about here:

Quote from: Timeisup on November 17, 2021, 11:12:54 AM

I claimed nothing

Quote from: Timeisup on November 15, 2021, 12:46:56 AM

He proved the earth was a sphere 2000 years ago which was a big deal then.

Quote from: Timeisup on November 17, 2021, 01:23:16 PM

Whenever I ask you to quote one of my many alleged lies you shrink away.

No, when you ask, I provide a quote and you just ignore it.
Another example of your blatant dishonesty.

Quote from: Timeisup on November 17, 2021, 01:23:16 PM

Why is it so important to you what I think

It isn't a matter of what you think.
It is a matter of what you falsely claimed in a public forum, which is factually incorrect, while you try to pretend you are better than everyone else and can do no wrong.


Again, you falsely claimed he proved Earth was a sphere.
This claim of yours is wrong and instead, as you later said, he already knew Earth was a sphere and was just determine the size of this sphere, which has the implication he was not proving Earth was a sphere.

Are you capable of owning up to your mistake, or can you only participate while pretending you are the best person here who can never make a mistake?
Can you directly admit that you were wrong when you claimed he proved Earth was a sphere?

(Which again, is the kind of claim which causes FEers to talk about it so much)

What’s wrong with you? Own up to what? That your are a prize prat?
Ok you’re a prat,
The earth is a sphere it’s no secret ask Aristotle. It’s been known for a long time, the Greek guy added to the proof by, measuring  its circumference, it’s tilt and all that good stuff. His experiment was not done in a vacuum. The accumulation of knowledge and all that! True it’s a given flat earth believers hate the experiment, but there you go. If you don’t like it then that’s your problem go back in time and have it out with him. For his time he did a grand job.

A proof is made up of a number of components and if you can’t understand that then that’s your problem. It works for me.

I also said   whatever the Greek guy did back then has no real  importance for the world of today, apart from it getting your panties in a twist.

His  stick experiment was a part of a larger body of  work that when put together did indeed prove the world was a sphere? He unlike you was a clever chap.

Wait, you can accumulate knowledge and formulate a hypothesis without an expert in the subject telling you what you are looking at?  But that is completely against your normal crazy.  Who are you, stop hacking Timmy's account!

What’s wrong with you? Own up to what? That your are a prize prat?

I care about the truth and object to BS regardless of which side is spouting it, even if that means that I appear to be promoting the FE and attacking the RE because some REer said some stupid BS.
Most people wouldn't call that a problem or something wrong.

I also said

Again, stop deflecting with other things you have said.
Saying one thing that is correct doesn't mean everything you said is correct.
Focus on the actual objection raised.

You claimed he proved it was a sphere.
Do you accept that that statement of yours is pure BS?
If not, try to defend it, rather than fleeing from it.

Because like I said, is is BS like that which makes FEers talk about it so much.

Ask yourself this... did it ever enter the mind of Eratosthenes at the time he did the experiment that he was or might be actually calculating the diameter of a flat Earth rather than the circumference of a spherical Earth? Or is this just something that flat Earth believers have made up because it suits their own mindset.

Quote from: Timeisup on November 18, 2021, 03:45:03 PM

What’s wrong with you? Own up to what? That your are a prize prat?

I care about the truth and object to BS regardless of which side is spouting it, even if that means that I appear to be promoting the FE and attacking the RE because some REer said some stupid BS.
Most people wouldn't call that a problem or something wrong.

Quote from: Timeisup on November 18, 2021, 03:45:03 PM

I also said

Again, stop deflecting with other things you have said.
Saying one thing that is correct doesn't mean everything you said is correct.
Focus on the actual objection raised.

You claimed he proved it was a sphere.
Do you accept that that statement of yours is pure BS?
If not, try to defend it, rather than fleeing from it.

Because like I said, is is BS like that which makes FEers talk about it so much.

You care about truth!  What truth? your own?

Fleeing from what? the fact I done agree with you.

The historical record credits  Eratosthenes with providing proof for a Spherical earth along with Aristotle, but of course what they provided is just not good enough for you and some other flat earthers, well may I say thats your problem. Calling people liars just because they happen to accept the 'official' historical record rather than agreeing with you is again your problem. The fact that you think you are the arbiter of the truth and the only person that cares about it says much about who and what you are.

If you are the other flat earthers think the historical record is BS then good for you.

Why don't we forget about 'proof' of this or 'proof' of that for a moment. All I'm interested in is whether there is any historical evidence that Eratosthenes was trying to measure anything other than the circumference of the Earth.

Why don't we forget about 'proof' of this or 'proof' of that for a moment. All I'm interested in is whether there is any historical evidence that Eratosthenes was trying to measure anything other than the circumference of the Earth.

What you forget is that he lived a life and did many things scientific and the stick experiment was only one small part of a greater whole. FE believers like to nit pick and seize onto one small topic while forgetting the greater picture as its the only way they can opperate. His calculating the circumference was part of a greater whole and must be considered as such. Historians grant him the accolade of proving the world was a sphere and I don't see why because of the ravings of a mad man I should disagree. Of course FE believers will disagree but they disagree and ignore ALL the evidence irrespective of its validity as that is what they do.

FE believers like to nit pick and seize onto one small topic while forgetting the greater picture as its the only way they can opperate.

Which in itself implies a problem with their side of the argument doesn't it. If what they are claiming is genuine and true then it should be more apparent to everyone without them having to resort to or rely on nit picking and cherry picking.

If you have to effectively re-invent the laws of physics (UA, EA for example) in order to support a belief system, then that should bring that belief system into question rather quickly shouldn't it? EA does exist in conventional physics but in a completely different and unrelated context to how FE talk about it.  It's almost as if they have stolen the term because it sounds good and re-invented its meaning.

You care about truth!

Yes, I care about the truth, unlike you who refuses to answer a simple question because doing so would require either blatantly lying in the face of irrefutable evidence, or admitting you were wrong.

Eratosthenes with providing proof for a Spherical earth along with Aristotle

Is this you now claiming Eratosthenes was in fact providing proof (as well as Aristotle)?
Or that Eratosthenes and Aristotle combined provided the proof and that individually they did not provide proof?
In what way did Eratosthenes prove Earth is a sphere?

When responding, make sure you remember this comment of yours:

According to the expert historians, the main reason why he did this experiment was to calculate the circumference of the earth that he  already knew was a sphere.

Calling people liars just because they happen to accept the 'official' historical record rather than agreeing with you is again your problem.

It's not my problem as I have done no such thing.
Instead I have called people liars when they have blatantly lied.

The fact that you think you are the arbiter of the truth and the only person that cares about it says much about who and what you are.

And there you go with more lies.
That is your pathetic attack on me because you can't actually refute what I said.
Where have I indicated that I am the only person that cares about the truth?
Loads of people care about the truth. Pointing out that you don't and instead you only care about "being right", is not suggesting that no one except me does.

Grow up.

FE believers like to nit pick and seize onto one small topic while forgetting the greater picture as its the only way they can opperate.

Conversely, RE fanatics like just ignoring the rest and using the small bits they know about and blatantly misrepresent boldly claiming things like Eratosthenes proved Earth was spherical, when all he did was measure it after it was already shown to be spherical.

Historians grant him the accolade of proving the world was a sphere

Where?
What I find is him being credited for one of the earliest measurements of the Earth's circumference, not for proving it was a sphere. Plenty of sources will also indicate he already knew/assumed it was spherical. As if his measurements alone are not enough to prove it is a sphere.

You even backed that up with your prior comment:

According to the expert historians, the main reason why he did this experiment was to calculate the circumference of the earth that he  already knew was a sphere.

Why don't we forget about 'proof' of this or 'proof' of that for a moment. All I'm interested in is whether there is any historical evidence that Eratosthenes was trying to measure anything other than the circumference of the Earth.

No, there is not.
But that is not their argument.
Their argument is that Earth is flat, and thus Eratosthenes, while thinking he was measuring the circumference of Earth, was actually measuring something else/taking observations which could be used to calculate something else.

But like I said, they aren't just bringing this up in a vacuum.
They are doing it because people like timmy want to claim that this experiment proved Earth was a sphere thousands of years ago.
And in response to that false claim they explain how the same observations could work on a FE. Normally without needing UA/EA/whatever BS.

Their argument is that Earth is flat, and thus Eratosthenes, while thinking he was measuring the circumference of Earth, was actually measuring something else/taking observations which could be used to calculate something else.

Well as much as I'm sure they believe they are right, this is just a claim from flat Earthers based on nothing more than their choice of belief. By taking in the wider picture with all the evidence that is available from other sources we can see that this claim is wrong. But obviously they will deny that.

Quote from: Timeisup on November 19, 2021, 04:54:01 AM

You care about truth!

Yes, I care about the truth, unlike you who refuses to answer a simple question because doing so would require either blatantly lying in the face of irrefutable evidence, or admitting you were wrong.

Quote from: Timeisup on November 19, 2021, 04:54:01 AM

Eratosthenes with providing proof for a Spherical earth along with Aristotle

Is this you now claiming Eratosthenes was in fact providing proof (as well as Aristotle)?
Or that Eratosthenes and Aristotle combined provided the proof and that individually they did not provide proof?
In what way did Eratosthenes prove Earth is a sphere?

When responding, make sure you remember this comment of yours:

Quote from: Timeisup on November 17, 2021, 12:07:39 AM

According to the expert historians, the main reason why he did this experiment was to calculate the circumference of the earth that he  already knew was a sphere.

Quote from: Timeisup on November 19, 2021, 04:54:01 AM

Calling people liars just because they happen to accept the 'official' historical record rather than agreeing with you is again your problem.

It's not my problem as I have done no such thing.
Instead I have called people liars when they have blatantly lied.

Quote from: Timeisup on November 19, 2021, 04:54:01 AM

The fact that you think you are the arbiter of the truth and the only person that cares about it says much about who and what you are.

And there you go with more lies.
That is your pathetic attack on me because you can't actually refute what I said.
Where have I indicated that I am the only person that cares about the truth?
Loads of people care about the truth. Pointing out that you don't and instead you only care about "being right", is not suggesting that no one except me does.

Grow up.

Quote from: Timeisup on November 19, 2021, 06:26:26 AM

FE believers like to nit pick and seize onto one small topic while forgetting the greater picture as its the only way they can opperate.

Conversely, RE fanatics like just ignoring the rest and using the small bits they know about and blatantly misrepresent boldly claiming things like Eratosthenes proved Earth was spherical, when all he did was measure it after it was already shown to be spherical.

Quote from: Timeisup on November 19, 2021, 06:26:26 AM

Historians grant him the accolade of proving the world was a sphere

Where?
What I find is him being credited for one of the earliest measurements of the Earth's circumference, not for proving it was a sphere. Plenty of sources will also indicate he already knew/assumed it was spherical. As if his measurements alone are not enough to prove it is a sphere.

You even backed that up with your prior comment:

Quote from: Timeisup on November 17, 2021, 12:07:39 AM

According to the expert historians, the main reason why he did this experiment was to calculate the circumference of the earth that he  already knew was a sphere.

Quote from: Solarwind on November 19, 2021, 05:55:50 AM

Why don't we forget about 'proof' of this or 'proof' of that for a moment. All I'm interested in is whether there is any historical evidence that Eratosthenes was trying to measure anything other than the circumference of the Earth.

No, there is not.
But that is not their argument.
Their argument is that Earth is flat, and thus Eratosthenes, while thinking he was measuring the circumference of Earth, was actually measuring something else/taking observations which could be used to calculate something else.

But like I said, they aren't just bringing this up in a vacuum.
They are doing it because people like timmy want to claim that this experiment proved Earth was a sphere thousands of years ago.
And in response to that false claim they explain how the same observations could work on a FE. Normally without needing UA/EA/whatever BS.

The problem is you consider any one who disagrees with you a liar.
Your antics on here demonstrate how little you actually care about the truth.

The historical record plainly states that Eratosthenes is credited with proving the earth is a sphere. If you don’t like it or can’t accept what the world generally agrees on then that’s your problem. Calling me a liar and proclaiming what I said is BS flies in the face of the accepted facts. You are not the judge and jury of what is true or false.

You speak about the truth yet you shy away from it. Our discussion on experts where again you proclaimed me liar and purveyor of BS was all down to just not liking what I stated. On numerous occasions when asked to present your evidence on why you disagreed you refused. This discussion on Eratosthenes could not be had without expert assistance. The historians who recorded it in the first instance and those who translated it form the original Greek. I say he wrote in Greek but it may well have been another language. None the less numerous experts were required at so many stages to allow you to retrieve the information.

Going back to what’s true, it’s a false claim to think that experiment Eratosthenes made along with all the other observations made at that time did NOT prove the earth was a sphere.

As far as the truth is concerned you are a long way off wanting instead to distort the facts and reality to suit your own narrow and warped agenda.

The problem is you consider any one who disagrees with you a liar.

No, I consider those who lie about what I have said, or lie about what they have said to avoid admitting they are wrong, liars.
Disagreement is not enough.

The historical record plainly states that Eratosthenes is credited with proving the earth is a sphere.

Prove it.
Especially considering you have made it clear that you didn't think he proved Earth was a sphere and noted that history credits him as calculating the circumference of Earth.

Your word that the historic record says something is worthless.

For example, wikipedia states:
"He is best known for being the first person known to calculate the circumference of the Earth" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erastosthenes
"Eratosthenes performed an experiment using the differences in the observed angle of the Sun from two different locations to calculate the circumference of the Earth."
"Eratosthenes, a Hellenistic astronomer from Cyrenaica (276–194 BC), estimated Earth's circumference" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth

Britannica states:
"who made the first measurement of the size of Earth for which any details are known." - https://www.britannica.com/biography/Eratosthenes
"Eratosthenes (3rd century BCE), however, is considered to be one of the founders of geodesy because he was the first to describe and apply a scientific measuring technique for determining the size of Earth" - https://www.britannica.com/science/geoid

Encyclopedia.com states:
"His most enduring work was in geography (particularly notable is his measurement of the circumference of the earth)"
"Eratosthenes is credited with being the first person to have calculated the Earth’s circumference." - https://www.encyclopedia.com/people/literature-and-arts/classical-literature-biographies/eratosthenes
"Eratosthenes of Cyrene (276-194 b.c.) accurately measured the Earth's circumference." - https://www.encyclopedia.com/science/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/eratosthenes-calculates-circumference-earth

Conversely, we can see regarding Aristotle:
"Aristotle (384–322 BC) was Plato's prize student and "the mind of the school".[51] Aristotle observed "there are stars seen in Egypt and [...] Cyprus which are not seen in the northerly regions." Since this could only happen on a curved surface, he too believed Earth was a sphere "of no great size, for otherwise the effect of so slight a change of place would not be quickly apparent." (De caelo, 298a2–10)

Aristotle provided physical and observational arguments supporting the idea of a spherical Earth" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth

Notice the difference in terminology.

And this one is great too:
"It has actually been known that the Earth was round since the time of the ancient Greeks. I believe that it was Pythagoras who first proposed that the Earth was round sometime around 500 B.C. As I recall, he based his idea on the fact that he showed the Moon must be round by observing the shape of the terminator (the line between the part of the Moon in light and the part of the Moon in the dark) as it moved through its orbital cycle. Pythagoras reasoned that if the Moon was round, then the Earth must be round as well. After that, sometime between 500 B.C. and 430 B.C., a fellow called Anaxagoras determined the true cause of solar and lunar eclipses - and then the shape of the Earth's shadow on the Moon during a lunar eclipse was also used as evidence that the Earth was round.

Around 350 BC, the great Aristotle declared that the Earth was a sphere (based on observations he made about which constellations you could see in the sky as you travelled further and further away from the equator) and during the next hundred years or so, Aristarchus and Eratosthenes actually measured the size of the Earth!" - https://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question54.html

So what sources are you using? Quora?

Calling me a liar and proclaiming what I said is BS flies in the face of the accepted facts.

I called you a liar as you directly lied.
You falsely claimed he proved Earth was a sphere.
Then when called out you deflected, and even going as far to claim that you claimed nothing.

Now do you admit to claiming he proved Earth is a sphere, showing your claim that you claimed nothing to be a lie?

it’s a false claim to think that experiment Eratosthenes made along with all the other observations made at that time did NOT prove the earth was a sphere.

Likewise, it's a "false claim to think that measuring a table, along with all the observations that have been made did not prove the Earth was a sphere."