Vaccine Mandates in Communist New York and other cities

Quote from: JJA on August 25, 2021, 09:59:28 AM

For the record, I fully support vaccinations being mandated. That's a world I want. Freedoms are not absolute.

I'm not sure. I'm always for giving the government the least amount of force necessary to solve a problem.

Is a mass mandate really the only way to control a plague? Maybe there's less obtrusive methods that will work well enough like incentives and narrowly defined mandates.

I think this particular plague is showing us that yes, a mandate really is the only way because if you just ask nicely you get what we have now, 25% of the population deciding it's a hoax.

We tried the less intrusive methods and they failed. Are incentives really going to get the ignorant like New Earth or Tom Bishop to get it?

But I agree, give the government the absolute minimum to get the job done. When it comes to vaccines, I think mandates is sadly the minimum.

Quote from: Crouton on August 25, 2021, 09:36:32 AM

To be honest I'm kind of against forcing vaccinations depending on the situation.  Covid will be gone someday one way or the other.  But the damage to our institutions by forcing vaccinations will remain.

So I sort of agree in principle with the politicians that are against a vaccine mandate.  I just really wish they'd put more effort into promoting vaccinations so a mandate isn't necessary.

I'm honestly curious. What do you think of mandatory vaccinations for chicken pox and polio?

Would you rather we live in a world where there were never any mandates for those vaccines and they were still killing and crippling large numbers of children and adults every year? Those diseases didn't just go away by themselves, we made them go away.

For the record, I fully support vaccinations being mandated. That's a world I want. Freedoms are not absolute.

Vaccinations are not 'mandatory' here in Oz but they are high incentivized by way of the government withholding tax breaks or payments to parents dependent on their childs vaccination status. One may also find it very difficult to get their child into childcare if their child is not vaccinated. In the past you could claim 'religion' as an excuse but we did away with that loophole. Only excuse is medical. And being a paranoid whiny SOB doesn't cover it.

This along with decent education has lead to vaccination rates of ~95% in many areas and the overwhelming majority of people all to happy to get the jab

Vaccines should be mandatory. If people want to bitch about their 'freedoms' they can flap off and live off the grid in no mans land or away from the rest of society.

You guys especially you JJA is comparing apples to oranges. The vaccines of the past was a one time deal. When I was a kid I had my shots and no one complained or argued. Those were good vaccines that protected you from well known diseases. Covid vaccine is a god damn guess work, uknown to what the side effects will be in the future, people don't want Covid vaccine because their doctors are telling them its a guess work, just like my doctor told me. I'm well educated person and I would be the first in line to get this vaccine if it was proven to work and not kill me. But I'm not gonna put something in my body that is experimental, fuck that.

You guys especially you JJA is comparing apples to oranges. The vaccines of the past was a one time deal. When I was a kid I had my shots and no one complained or argued. Those were good vaccines that protected you from well known diseases. Covid vaccine is a god damn guess work, uknown to what the side effects will be in the future, people don't want Covid vaccine because their doctors are telling them its a guess work, just like my doctor told me. I'm well educated person and I would be the first in line to get this vaccine if it was proven to work and not kill me. But I'm not gonna put something in my body that is experimental, fuck that.

The vaccines 'of the past' still require boosters. Whooping cough, Tetanus, diphtheria etc. And especially seasonal influenza - and that is 'best guess' of what they expect to come your way for the year

The covid vaccines available has passed every clinical trial. There was no 'short cuts'. Trials were run concurrently to save time and technology gifted us the ability to map the virus very quickly. Pull your head out of your arse for once

I bet you have no problem putting shitty foods in your body. Trans fats, alcohol, artificial colours, flavours, sweeteners etc. I bet you give zero fucks about seafood contaminated with methyl-mercury and would eat along with millions of others too. How about all your air pollution from coal fired power plants or traffic you breathe in every day? I bet you also give zero fucks about industries polluting ground water with toxic dioxins and waste. Yet to see you start any threads bitching about those very real world problems

But HELL NO dont you dare put a vaccine in whose only job is to educate the immune system to a highly transmissible deadly virus! You're f%#ked. But you're also a troll so no one gives a damn if you succumb to the virus crying like a baby on a death bed like so many of your stupid ilk who boasted 'covid wont get me!'. Only to die with us 'liberals' laughing at their idiocy and their demise.

You guys especially you JJA is comparing apples to oranges. The vaccines of the past was a one time deal. When I was a kid I had my shots and no one complained or argued. Those were good vaccines that protected you from well known diseases. Covid vaccine is a god damn guess work, uknown to what the side effects will be in the future, people don't want Covid vaccine because their doctors are telling them its a guess work, just like my doctor told me. I'm well educated person and I would be the first in line to get this vaccine if it was proven to work and not kill me. But I'm not gonna put something in my body that is experimental, fuck that.

Shifter already did the work of pointing out all your ignorance.

When you were a kid you didn't have any choice in the matter. Now that you are an adult you do, and you are proving you don't deserve that choice.

You are the least educated person in this entire thread, you don't even believe COVID is a virus. You're just plain crazy.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2021, 08:43:00 AM

"owning the libs' isn't the reason so many healthcare workers don't want to get vaccinated.

I have no idea what to make of healthcare workers who won't get vaccinated.  They're seeing people die horribly from this disease all the time.

It is curious. I know some healthcare workers who are against flu vaccines, as well. They're not typical antivaxxers. They've all been vaccinated against the other stuff, and they're not against getting their kids their mmr and other vaccines.

On the other hand, I know a couple nurses who are furious at people who won't get vaccinated for the exact reason you said. They're right there in the hospital watching people suffer and die.

It is curious. I know some healthcare workers who are against flu vaccines, as well. They're not typical antivaxxers. They've all been vaccinated against the other stuff, and they're not against getting their kids their mmr and other vaccines.

Most polls show there are two distinct groups. A group that is hesitant and waiting and is slowly being convinced to take it. This is about half and half Republicans and Democrats.

The other group is the "never ever gonna take it" group which are about 90% hard core Trump voters.

Time will tell if we can get enough of the first group to take it. Trump voters are a lost cause, he can't even get them to take it now. His monster is well out of control.

Weirdly, chicken pox isn’t even a standard childhood vaccine in the UK.  We should probably start with that before making it mandatory.  Better than hosting pox parties.

It's not that weird, though it is debated among clinicians and policy makers now and again.

Chickenpox in children rarely is serious and the reasoning for not including it in childhood vaccines is:

The NHS said a chickenpox vaccine is not offered as part of routine immunisations as it would leave unvaccinated children more susceptible to contracting the virus as an adult.

There could also be a significant increase in shingles cases as being exposed to infected children boosts immunity to this.

Mandated vaccines are a bad idea.  One of the foundations of medical ethics is informed consent - mandates just chuck that out the window.  Decent article here covering both sides of the argument though.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03642-w

You guys especially you JJA is comparing apples to oranges. The vaccines of the past was a one time deal. When I was a kid I had my shots and no one complained or argued. Those were good vaccines that protected you from well known diseases. Covid vaccine is a god damn guess work, uknown to what the side effects will be in the future, people don't want Covid vaccine because their doctors are telling them its a guess work, just like my doctor told me. I'm well educated person and I would be the first in line to get this vaccine if it was proven to work and not kill me. But I'm not gonna put something in my body that is experimental, fuck that.

Fair enough,  it's your body and your choice.  No argument from me on that front. 

But if you accept that argument, then you must also accept that other people have the right to exclude you from infecting them and their families. 

So you don't get to hop on a plane, you don't  get to go into crowded restuarants, you don't get to go and work infecting others in your workplace. 

That's their choice and to exclude the unvaccinated is simply them exercising their freedom to reduce the risk of getting infected.

You can't have it both ways.

Quote from: Unconvinced on August 25, 2021, 10:49:11 AM

Weirdly, chicken pox isn’t even a standard childhood vaccine in the UK.  We should probably start with that before making it mandatory.  Better than hosting pox parties.

It's not that weird, though it is debated among clinicians and policy makers now and again.

Chickenpox in children rarely is serious and the reasoning for not including it in childhood vaccines is:

Quote

The NHS said a chickenpox vaccine is not offered as part of routine immunisations as it would leave unvaccinated children more susceptible to contracting the virus as an adult.

There could also be a significant increase in shingles cases as being exposed to infected children boosts immunity to this.

Mandated vaccines are a bad idea.  One of the foundations of medical ethics is informed consent - mandates just chuck that out the window.  Decent article here covering both sides of the argument though.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03642-w

Adult shingles is no fun.  One of my wifes friends got shingles and it was horrible. 

BTW Shingles is the re-emergence of chicken pox in later life.

There's a shingles vaccine too! I haven't got one yet, but I did get chickenpox when I was about 10yrs old. I think I should do it soon. I don't want the shingles.

I have every vax I can get.Had to slap my chest and stomp my feet to get the pneumonia vax.
Supposed to be 65yo.
COPD and heart failure got me to the front of the line.

Australians believe it is a good thing for the government to forcibly take children away from their families.

Shifter is australian.

Quote from: New Earth on August 25, 2021, 11:18:18 AM

You guys especially you JJA is comparing apples to oranges. The vaccines of the past was a one time deal. When I was a kid I had my shots and no one complained or argued. Those were good vaccines that protected you from well known diseases. Covid vaccine is a god damn guess work, uknown to what the side effects will be in the future, people don't want Covid vaccine because their doctors are telling them its a guess work, just like my doctor told me. I'm well educated person and I would be the first in line to get this vaccine if it was proven to work and not kill me. But I'm not gonna put something in my body that is experimental, fuck that.

Fair enough,  it's your body and your choice.  No argument from me on that front. 

But if you accept that argument, then you must also accept that other people have the right to exclude you from infecting them and their families. 

So you don't get to hop on a plane, you don't  get to go into crowded restuarants, you don't get to go and work infecting others in your workplace. 

That's their choice and to exclude the unvaccinated is simply them exercising their freedom to reduce the risk of getting infected.

You can't have it both ways.

Rayzor believes in the quality of life so much, that regardless of the proven and documented instances of harm the vaccine has caused members of the populace, you must get it anyway for him, not you.

Rayzor is being hypocritical in that the quality of your life does not matter to him.

Worldwide, other mandatory shots will soon become the norm.

Australians believe it is a good thing for the government to forcibly take children away from their families.

Shifter is australian.

*Australian. You need to capitalize the first letter, dumbarse

Nice generalization though. I think you meant America though
https://apnews.com/article/north-america-ne-state-wire-us-news-ap-top-news-immigration-375da2b8b1554418a8edad1dd383d707

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) — Some critics of the forced separation of Latino children from their migrant parents say the practice is unprecedented. But it’s not the first time the U.S. government has split up families, detained children or allowed others to do so .

Throughout American history, during times of war and unrest, authorities have cited various reasons and laws to take children away from their parents. Here are some examples:

SLAVERY

Before abolition, children of black slaves were born into slavery and could be sold by owners at will. Black women could do little to stop the sale of children and often never saw them again after they were sent away.

Owners also split apart parents who had no legal rights to prevent their sale. To resist, slave families regularly ran away together but faced harsh physical punishment, even death, if caught by slave hunters.

Last week, both White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Attorney Jeff Sessions cited the Bible in defending the policy of forced separation of Latino migrant children. Sessions referenced Romans 13, which urges readers “to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained them for the purpose of order.” The same passage was cited before the Civil War to justify slavery, to allow slave hunters to return runaway slaves to their owners and to pull slave children away from mothers.

NATIVE AMERICAN BOARDING SCHOOLS

After the 1890 Wounded Knee Massacre, when the Army slaughtered 150 Lakota men, women and children in the last chapter of America’s long Indian wars, authorities forced Native American families to send their children to government- or church-run boarding schools. The objective, as Carlisle Indian Industrial School founder Capt. Richard H. Pratt put it, was to “kill the Indian in him and save the man.”

At 150 or so Indian schools around the country, officials made Native American children cut their hair and outlawed all Native American languages. They forced children to adopt Christianity and attempted to “Americanize” children by introducing them to white customs and white history.

Native American children returned home almost unrecognizable to their parents.

Still, some children resisted the boarding school experience by setting fires to buildings, running away or taking their own lives. Others continued to speak their native language in secret. Some Navajo “code talkers,” who used a code based on their native language to transmit messages in World War II, were products of military-style boarding schools as children.

POVERTY

During the early 1900s, states sometimes pulled children from poor families and placed them in orphanages. But reformers in the 1920s and 1930s began promoting the idea that children should not be separated from their families, according to “In the Shadow Of the Poorhouse: A Social History Of Welfare In America” by Michael B. Katz.

However, local and state authorities still used poverty as a reason to take children away from Native American and black families, National Association of Social Workers CEO Angelo McClain said. Sometimes the ordered separation came over concerns about a parent’s mental health.

Malcolm X in his autobiography recalled welfare workers coming to take him and his siblings away as children from his struggling single mother after their father, an outspoken black preacher, was mysteriously murdered. The future civil rights leader lived in various foster homes and boarding houses. His mother, without her children, had a breakdown and was sent to a mental institution.

IMMIGRATION

During the Great Depression, local authorities in California and Texas participated in a mass deportation of Mexican immigrants and Mexican Americans whom they blamed for the economic downturn. Between 500,000 and 1 million Mexican immigrants and Mexican Americans were pushed out of the country during the 1930s repatriation, as the removal is sometimes called.

Some families hid children away from relatives in the U.S. to prevent them from being sent to a foreign country they had never visited, according to Francisco Balderrama, a Chicano studies professor at California State University-Los Angeles and co-author of “Decade of Betrayal: Mexican Repatriation in the 1930s.”

Many families felt they were being forced to separate from their children, who were U.S. citizens.

“And many children,” Balderrama said, “never saw their parents again.”

JAPANESE INTERNMENT CAMPS

Starting in 1942, when the U.S. was at war with Japan, around 120,000 people of Japanese ancestry were ordered by the U.S. government into prison camps around the country. An estimated 30,000 were children.

The 1999 documentary “Children of the Camps” highlighted the trauma children faced while being detained with their grief-stricken parents. Some older children waited to turn 18 so they could volunteer to fight for the U.S. to prove their families’ loyalty despite not wanting to be separated from their parents. Diaries and later interviews show many of those who went into the military did so reluctantly.

America probably has one of the worst stained history in the developed world. Bravo dudes

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on August 26, 2021, 03:48:42 AM

Australians believe it is a good thing for the government to forcibly take children away from their families.

Shifter is australian.

*Australian. You need to capitalize the first letter, dumbarse

Nice generalization though. I think you meant America though
https://apnews.com/article/north-america-ne-state-wire-us-news-ap-top-news-immigration-375da2b8b1554418a8edad1dd383d707

Quote

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) — Some critics of the forced separation of Latino children from their migrant parents say the practice is unprecedented. But it’s not the first time the U.S. government has split up families, detained children or allowed others to do so .

Throughout American history, during times of war and unrest, authorities have cited various reasons and laws to take children away from their parents. Here are some examples:

SLAVERY

Before abolition, children of black slaves were born into slavery and could be sold by owners at will. Black women could do little to stop the sale of children and often never saw them again after they were sent away.

Owners also split apart parents who had no legal rights to prevent their sale. To resist, slave families regularly ran away together but faced harsh physical punishment, even death, if caught by slave hunters.

Last week, both White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Attorney Jeff Sessions cited the Bible in defending the policy of forced separation of Latino migrant children. Sessions referenced Romans 13, which urges readers “to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained them for the purpose of order.” The same passage was cited before the Civil War to justify slavery, to allow slave hunters to return runaway slaves to their owners and to pull slave children away from mothers.

NATIVE AMERICAN BOARDING SCHOOLS

After the 1890 Wounded Knee Massacre, when the Army slaughtered 150 Lakota men, women and children in the last chapter of America’s long Indian wars, authorities forced Native American families to send their children to government- or church-run boarding schools. The objective, as Carlisle Indian Industrial School founder Capt. Richard H. Pratt put it, was to “kill the Indian in him and save the man.”

At 150 or so Indian schools around the country, officials made Native American children cut their hair and outlawed all Native American languages. They forced children to adopt Christianity and attempted to “Americanize” children by introducing them to white customs and white history.

Native American children returned home almost unrecognizable to their parents.

Still, some children resisted the boarding school experience by setting fires to buildings, running away or taking their own lives. Others continued to speak their native language in secret. Some Navajo “code talkers,” who used a code based on their native language to transmit messages in World War II, were products of military-style boarding schools as children.

POVERTY

During the early 1900s, states sometimes pulled children from poor families and placed them in orphanages. But reformers in the 1920s and 1930s began promoting the idea that children should not be separated from their families, according to “In the Shadow Of the Poorhouse: A Social History Of Welfare In America” by Michael B. Katz.

However, local and state authorities still used poverty as a reason to take children away from Native American and black families, National Association of Social Workers CEO Angelo McClain said. Sometimes the ordered separation came over concerns about a parent’s mental health.

Malcolm X in his autobiography recalled welfare workers coming to take him and his siblings away as children from his struggling single mother after their father, an outspoken black preacher, was mysteriously murdered. The future civil rights leader lived in various foster homes and boarding houses. His mother, without her children, had a breakdown and was sent to a mental institution.

IMMIGRATION

During the Great Depression, local authorities in California and Texas participated in a mass deportation of Mexican immigrants and Mexican Americans whom they blamed for the economic downturn. Between 500,000 and 1 million Mexican immigrants and Mexican Americans were pushed out of the country during the 1930s repatriation, as the removal is sometimes called.

Some families hid children away from relatives in the U.S. to prevent them from being sent to a foreign country they had never visited, according to Francisco Balderrama, a Chicano studies professor at California State University-Los Angeles and co-author of “Decade of Betrayal: Mexican Repatriation in the 1930s.”

Many families felt they were being forced to separate from their children, who were U.S. citizens.

“And many children,” Balderrama said, “never saw their parents again.”

JAPANESE INTERNMENT CAMPS

Starting in 1942, when the U.S. was at war with Japan, around 120,000 people of Japanese ancestry were ordered by the U.S. government into prison camps around the country. An estimated 30,000 were children.

The 1999 documentary “Children of the Camps” highlighted the trauma children faced while being detained with their grief-stricken parents. Some older children waited to turn 18 so they could volunteer to fight for the U.S. to prove their families’ loyalty despite not wanting to be separated from their parents. Diaries and later interviews show many of those who went into the military did so reluctantly.

America probably has one of the worst stained history in the developed world. Bravo dudes

No, I meant australian.

And I mean that right now, as you're idly sodomizing your pet kangaroo, the australian government is forcibly taking children away from australian citizens.

No, I meant australian.

And I mean that right now, as you're idly sodomizing your pet kangaroo, the australian government is forcibly taking children away from australian citizens.

You mean like when shithead parents who abuse or neglect their kids get them taken away? Yeah OK. You sure got us Given your years of slavery, racism, genocide, internment camps, and splitting refugee families apart yeah, Australia is so evil

None of which has anything to do with mandating vaccines so I fail to see what point you were trying to make. Do you even have one?

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on August 26, 2021, 05:28:48 AM

No, I meant australian.

And I mean that right now, as you're idly sodomizing your pet kangaroo, the australian government is forcibly taking children away from australian citizens.

You mean like when shithead parents who abuse or neglect their kids get them taken away? Yeah OK. You sure got us Given your years of slavery, racism, genocide, internment camps, and splitting refugee families apart yeah, Australia is so evil

None of which has anything to do with mandating vaccines so I fail to see what point you were trying to make. Do you even have one?

Actually, the australian government is forcibly taking away the children of australian citizens in order to forcibly give them the vaccine.

Quote from: Shifter on August 26, 2021, 05:40:38 AM

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on August 26, 2021, 05:28:48 AM

No, I meant australian.

And I mean that right now, as you're idly sodomizing your pet kangaroo, the australian government is forcibly taking children away from australian citizens.

You mean like when shithead parents who abuse or neglect their kids get them taken away? Yeah OK. You sure got us Given your years of slavery, racism, genocide, internment camps, and splitting refugee families apart yeah, Australia is so evil

None of which has anything to do with mandating vaccines so I fail to see what point you were trying to make. Do you even have one?

Actually, the australian government is forcibly taking away the children of australian citizens in order to forcibly give them the vaccine.

Your empty words. How about posting evidence? Vaccines are not mandatory here. You are incentivized to get it done but that's it. If you choose not to, you wont have people knock on your door and take away your kids and then have your kids forcibly injected

I know you're a worthless troll and lying is your shtick but cut the BS at least once

Rayzor believes in the quality of life so much, that regardless of the proven and documented instances of harm the vaccine has caused members of the populace, you must get it anyway for him, not you.

Rayzor is being hypocritical in that the quality of your life does not matter to him.

Correct,  I don't care what happens to you if you choose to increase the risk of infection to my family.

On a related matter,  how many people have died from taking covid vaccines compared with how many have died from not being vaccinated?  I'm sure you know and have made an informed choice.

Quote from: JerkFace on August 25, 2021, 04:57:34 AM

Quote from: New Earth on August 24, 2021, 04:44:03 PM

I have the right not to be vaccinated cause its my body.

Ok, I'm sure you've thought this through.....

Interesting examination on the "My body, my choice", "Freedom" position:



Even near respirator patients cling to the notion.

RIP chris - you f'd up (TIFU).

USA IRL experiencing an oldie but goodie:

USS ACC:  this is the uss big-ass air craft carrier.   Move.
Distnat Light:   no you move.
USS ACC:  I have guns.  I have missiles.   Freedom!
Distant light:    im a lighthouse.   You move.

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on August 26, 2021, 03:53:20 AM

Rayzor believes in the quality of life so much, that regardless of the proven and documented instances of harm the vaccine has caused members of the populace, you must get it anyway for him, not you.

Rayzor is being hypocritical in that the quality of your life does not matter to him.

Correct,  I don't care what happens to you if you choose to increase the risk of infection to my family.

On a related matter,  how many people have died from taking covid vaccines compared with how many have died from not being vaccinated?  I'm sure you know and have made an informed choice.

You expect Lackless to be able to math properly?
Come now...

Actually, the australian government is forcibly taking away the children of australian citizens in order to forcibly give them the vaccine.

No it isn't.

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on August 26, 2021, 05:41:59 AM

Actually, the australian government is forcibly taking away the children of australian citizens in order to forcibly give them the vaccine.

No it isn't.

Yes, it is.

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on August 26, 2021, 07:27:50 AM

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on August 26, 2021, 05:41:59 AM

Actually, the australian government is forcibly taking away the children of australian citizens in order to forcibly give them the vaccine.

No it isn't.

Yes, it is.

Prove it, troll

https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/is-it-true/is-it-true-are-covid-19-vaccines-mandatory-in-australia

Vaccination for COVID-19 is voluntary – as are all vaccinations in Australia – and people maintain the option to choose.

[vid][/vid]

lol, I see where you get your 'info' from. No wonder you're full of crap

Jerk Face, private businesses, restaurants, airlines and other businesses have no right to turn me away because I chose not to take vaccine. Read the constitution and civil rights act. this is very basic stuff.

Why do liberals always say that this virus is deadly, most people didn't die and developed strong anti bodies that will protect them for a long time.

Australia was formed as prison colony of England so naturally they don't believe in any freedoms. Government mandates and brute force is very natural style of governing to them. Don't expect Shitster to comprehend freedom. 

All throughout U.S. mask mandates and social distancing is coming back precisely because vaccine is not working. Liberals may blame the unvaxed for the rise of Covid, but the bottom line is that vaccine fails against Delta and falls in general. This vaccine shuts off your immune system and assumes itself as immune system of its own. When you put this vaccine in your body, its like replacing Norton anti virus with windows defender, you are an idiot JJA.

And why do you guys say that its only Trump supporters and conservatives that reject vaccine? I have a black liberal friend who never voted republican and yet doesn't want any part of this stupid vaccine. As a matter of fact only 27% of Blacks are vaccinated, so you wanna tell me the other 73% are Republican? Get the fuck out with your lies.

[vid][/vid]

Ah tuckerC.
The very provable liar continues lying.
Lets all listen and try not to roll our eyes into our spine.