got some probiotic fish flakes for ruffles and company

Ruffles is my goldfish - the problem child. His company of bandits are four other feeder goldfish i got from the pet store for $ .50 dollars each. I have been making them homemade fish food with about 1/3 oats, 1/3 shrimp and 1/3 vegatbles. but now i got cloudy water, then  BAM! clear water probiotic fishfood at the supermarket.

I'm not sure if They have been doin so well which i attribute to govt medicine beams, but it's not much work to give them normal fish treatment. Does anyone know if goldfish fight a lot or how to tell if they are fighting or playing...none of them seem to get along all that well and i'm not trying to spend a lot of time chearing them up. But then again I'm not really sure what I'm looking at here in terms of normal fish behaviour.

Any fish experts on deck?

Just stoppin in for a sec, still working on some cool pix for enterteinment and global domination, and closer than ever!

I'm not an expert on fish, I have one cichlid. I can't put any other fish with her because she eats them. I feed her cichlid flakes, Bug Bites, and blood worms.

I don't know why your water is cloudy, but a 50% water change every week will get rid of a lot of the nitrogen. You're probably having a bacteria bloom, which is fed by nitrogen from the fish poop. You should vacuum the gravel, too.

One more thing, do you have charcoal in your filter? If you don't, it's a good idea to put some in there. It's pretty cheap, you can buy filter kits that have a little pouch of it that go in every time you replace the filter.

Yeah, i got charcoal. I recently discovered that (some of?) the activated carbon they are sellin is "bituminous" and i think it is actually coal with all of the flammable/toxic stuff baked out of it, but i may be mistaken. i am thinking of finding a way to use washed charcoal from my fire pit which wouldn't be as active. You can make it "activated" as in activated carbon (but surely less so) by soaking it in lime (edit not "lime" - whos been screwing with this thing) and the rebaking at low temp (2oo) in oven. I just need to figure out for sure it is safe for the fish.

 Ive seen people who should know enough about fish keeping say you don't need it, breeds dependency(?), and the bacteria colony is enough, but i love the idea of using charcoal in my filter. I am actually thinking of upping the ammount of carbon i use big time. I think they reccomend 1/2 cup or a cup a month but some of those prefab pouches look like less than that...

It probably depends on the size of your tank. I've got a small tank, so there's probably a couple tablespoons of charcoal in the filter.

Yeah, i got charcoal. I recently discovered that (some of?) the activated carbon they are sellin is "bituminous" and i think it is actually coal with all of the flammable/toxic stuff baked out of it, but i may be mistaken. i am thinking of finding a way to use washed charcoal from my fire pit which wouldn't be as active. You can make it "activated" as in activated carbon (but surely less so) by soaking it in lime (edit not "lime" - whos been screwing with this thing) and the rebaking at low temp (2oo) in oven. I just need to figure out for sure it is safe for the fish.

 Ive seen people who should know enough about fish keeping say you don't need it, breeds dependency(?), and the bacteria colony is enough, but i love the idea of using charcoal in my filter. I am actually thinking of upping the ammount of carbon i use big time. I think they reccomend 1/2 cup or a cup a month but some of those prefab pouches look like less than that...

you soak the charcoal in lime not lime - some say 1/3 lime juice (or is it 1 to 3 ) and water (purified)

It probably depends on the size of your tank. I've got a small tank, so there's probably a couple tablespoons of charcoal in the filter.

Yeah probably.

Quote from: faded mike on August 16, 2021, 02:16:18 PM

Yeah, i got charcoal. I recently discovered that (some of?) the activated carbon they are sellin is "bituminous" and i think it is actually coal with all of the flammable/toxic stuff baked out of it, but i may be mistaken. i am thinking of finding a way to use washed charcoal from my fire pit which wouldn't be as active. You can make it "activated" as in activated carbon (but surely less so) by soaking it in lime (edit not "lime" - whos been screwing with this thing) and the rebaking at low temp (2oo) in oven. I just need to figure out for sure it is safe for the fish.

 Ive seen people who should know enough about fish keeping say you don't need it, breeds dependency(?), and the bacteria colony is enough, but i love the idea of using charcoal in my filter. I am actually thinking of upping the ammount of carbon i use big time. I think they reccomend 1/2 cup or a cup a month but some of those prefab pouches look like less than that...

you soak the charcoal in lime not lime - some say 1/3 lime juice (or is it 1 to 3 ) and water (purified)

I would stick to the charcoal sold for aquariums, unless you just want to experiment and don't care if your fish die.

Ruffles is my goldfish - the problem child. His company of bandits are four other feeder goldfish i got from the pet store for $ .50 dollars each. I have been making them homemade fish food with about 1/3 oats, 1/3 shrimp and 1/3 vegatbles. but now i got cloudy water, then  BAM! clear water probiotic fishfood at the supermarket.

I'm not sure if They have been doin so well which i attribute to govt medicine beams, but it's not much work to give them normal fish treatment. Does anyone know if goldfish fight a lot or how to tell if they are fighting or playing...none of them seem to get along all that well and i'm not trying to spend a lot of time chearing them up. But then again I'm not really sure what I'm looking at here in terms of normal fish behaviour.

Any fish experts on deck?

Not an expert, but been running tropical aquariums for years.

First of all - how many fish have you got and what is the size of your tank?  Goldfish are widely considered to need big tanks (bigger than most tropicals require), especially as they can grow real big.    They could already be fighting because of lack of room, or it could be breeding related.  It might in fact just be breeding behaviour and not fighting.  Goldfish are not normally aggressive or territorial fish. 

Your food could have been causing the cloudiness, but a cloudy tank is considered normal in new tanks.  How long did you run your filter for before adding fish?  They take weeks to mature.

Nobody really uses charcoal in filters anymore.  People might just add activated charcoal to remove a specific chemical that might be in the water (like a medicine you added).  Though nowadays multiple large water changes are considered best practice.  I literally can't remember the last time I had charcoal in a filter.

I have a tank with two red eared sliders.  I use a cannister filter to maintain it.  It has a charcoal layer. 

I think a charcoal layer is still normal in cannister filters.  I could be wrong though.  I'm terrible at keeping fish alive.  Lucky that red eared sliders are such tough creatures.

I don't know what else it does, but the charcoal helps keep the tank from smelling.

I don't know what else it does, but the charcoal helps keep the tank from smelling.

Your tank really shouldn't smell anyway....

When you realize you are maintaining a filter, and also have fish, 
you will understand the art of fish keeping.

The hr or two of research i did on fishtank charcoal, charcoal absorbancy in general, said it will remove organic compounds... i think carbon based compounds which could smell, but not - bear with my highschool chem - ionic compounds like acids and bases. i havent yet seen an explanantion for why (if?) clorine is removed using charcoal like in a brita filter and would fluorine be removed.

jimmy - my tank is a homemade 50g with two fan tails 7 and 4 inches , and a 35 - 40 g (also homemade from windows) with 2 commons and a fan tail - 6inch, 4,4.

50g is nice and big.

If your filter is working properly and you're doing weekly (partial) water changes, you won't need charcoal.  Charcoal won't take out the nitrites that come from fish poo and poison your fish.  This is done by the bacterial colonies in the filter (which takes weeks to get established).

To take out chlorine of the tap water during a water change, use a conditioner:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/API-CONDITIONER-Aquarium-Conditioner-Bottle/dp/B004LO9KSY

50g is nice and big.

If your filter is working properly and you're doing weekly (partial) water changes, you won't need charcoal.  Charcoal won't take out the nitrites that come from fish poo and poison your fish.  This is done by the bacterial colonies in the filter (which takes weeks to get established).

To take out chlorine of the tap water during a water change, use a conditioner:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/API-CONDITIONER-Aquarium-Conditioner-Bottle/dp/B004LO9KSY

Thx for the input.

Do anybody know much about the fishkeeping of the past - like why they used to use it? The earlier ideas.

 I read that in roman times they had aquariums, or maybe ponds. they said old water was better for the set up. This saying actually might have come from the victorian era - i think they were into making perpetual fishtanks that had goldfish(?) plants and snails - you can imagine who ate what. It was supposed to turn into a self sustaining system. The author questioned this of course, but it sure would be interesting to here accounts if people were atually able to make it work.

Not sure when charcoal began to be used but i wouldn't be surprised if it was part of what made people think it was possible to keep fish in an enclosure in the first place.

Do anybody know much about the fishkeeping of the past - like why they used to use it?

A generation ago fish keeping had become like some kind of chemistry experiment with people dropping in all sorts of chemicals, treatments and supplements, then using charcoal to clean up said chemicals.

Much of that has gone - a healthy tank doesn't need anything adding.  Therefore no charcoal needed.  The only stuff I use in my tank is the conditioner during water changes to take out chlorine and some fertilizer for the plants.  That's it. 

I read that in roman times they had aquariums, or maybe ponds. they said old water was better for the set up. This saying actually might have come from the victorian era - i think they were into making perpetual fishtanks that had goldfish(?) plants and snails - you can imagine who ate what. It was supposed to turn into a self sustaining system.

Filter-less self sustaining systems are super trendy right now and can work really well.  They are called Walstad tanks after the ecologist that invented the technique (or at least popularised it).  The idea is to create a self sustaining system with no filter.  Instead it uses soil and lots of plants to maintain itself.  You shouldn't need to do anything with them apart from top up the water.

https://www.buildyouraquarium.com/walstad-method/

Have a google  - people create some amazing systems.  I'm going to get a shrimp and snail one going and maybe add a fish or two if it works out.

Not sure when charcoal began to be used but i wouldn't be surprised if it was part of what made people think it was possible to keep fish in an enclosure in the first place.

I'm not sure either, but I think it was in reaction to all the chemicals people were pointlessly pouring into their tanks.

I don't put any chemicals in my tank, but I have well water. My biggest issue is calcium build up on everything.

I have a clown loach that likes to hide. You can turn the ornaments upside down and still can't find him if you're not looking hard enough because he moulds himself into the crevices

Waste of a life. Waste of my money. So I removed the ornaments forcing him to socialise. But then he went and bullied the ugly bristle nosed cat fish. So I put one of the ornaments back for him to hide in again.

He'll probably starve because he never comes out even for the food. Oh well

Anybody got a fave fish species/type? i like gouramis, guppies, tetras, cr4abs/crayfish shrimp, goldfish danios. I basically prefer miniture stuff with lots of plants. Did you guys know that in theory you can take plants from local bodies of water and grow them in the aquarium - cool to me due to the price of aquarium plants.

I really gotta figure out this DIY activated carbon/ charcoal - All i got to do is figure out the chemistry and then i can have all the charcoal i want for freee for my tank. I think you just have to neutralize the ph basic residue and you can also clean up the carbon matrix a bit with some acid i think to make it more absorbent. The charcoal is already absorbent and if you are not leaching chem or smoke into your water what could go wrong? also you can specialize in your charcoal production to make it more absobent (? optimally burned ?).

My thinking is that if you are a casual fish keeper - their will be smells coming from your water you just get used to them and notice, but i might be wrong.

I have a clown loach that likes to hide. You can turn the ornaments upside down and still can't find him if you're not looking hard enough because he moulds himself into the crevices

Clown loaches are highly social schooling fish - if you just have one it will hide all the time.  You need to keep at least 6 and have a tank big enough for them to explore together....

Quote from: Shifter on August 30, 2021, 03:37:31 PM

I have a clown loach that likes to hide. You can turn the ornaments upside down and still can't find him if you're not looking hard enough because he moulds himself into the crevices

Clown loaches are highly social schooling fish - if you just have one it will hide all the time.  You need to keep at least 6 and have a tank big enough for them to explore together....

Damn. The tank is only 46L (fluval) and his kind cost over $20 each. He'll have to make do being a loner or learning to get along with others. (mainly tetras)

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on August 31, 2021, 04:10:01 AM

Quote from: Shifter on August 30, 2021, 03:37:31 PM

I have a clown loach that likes to hide. You can turn the ornaments upside down and still can't find him if you're not looking hard enough because he moulds himself into the crevices

Clown loaches are highly social schooling fish - if you just have one it will hide all the time.  You need to keep at least 6 and have a tank big enough for them to explore together....

Damn. The tank is only 46L (fluval) and his kind cost over $20 each. He'll have to make do being a loner or learning to get along with others. (mainly tetras)

Yeah, I made pretty much the same mistake years ago. The people in the pet shops shouldn't really sell them in singles and should make sure you have a big tank.  Great looking fish though.

It might well survive fine, just don't expect to see it much, especially when the lights are on.   Definitely don't remove his hiding places, he will get stressed and die (or get aggresive) - all loaches like to hide.

What else you got in there?

Quote from: Shifter on August 31, 2021, 04:24:04 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on August 31, 2021, 04:10:01 AM

Quote from: Shifter on August 30, 2021, 03:37:31 PM

I have a clown loach that likes to hide. You can turn the ornaments upside down and still can't find him if you're not looking hard enough because he moulds himself into the crevices

Clown loaches are highly social schooling fish - if you just have one it will hide all the time.  You need to keep at least 6 and have a tank big enough for them to explore together....

Damn. The tank is only 46L (fluval) and his kind cost over $20 each. He'll have to make do being a loner or learning to get along with others. (mainly tetras)

Yeah, I made pretty much the same mistake years ago. The people in the pet shops shouldn't really sell them in singles and should make sure you have a big tank.  Great looking fish though.

It might well survive fine, just don't expect to see it much, especially when the lights are on.   Definitely don't remove his hiding places, he will get stressed and die (or get aggresive) - all loaches like to hide.

What else you got in there?

About 10 neon tetras, 3 orange glow light tetras that have an orange stripe, 1 serpae tetra the bristle nose catfish and a reticulate loach. He's not shy though

I also had hundreds of 'mystery snails' lol. Population exploded despite never buying a snail and starting from scratch. I bought the loach to eat some of them. It's better now but I find heaps inside the filter every week lol

About 10 neon tetras, 3 orange glow light tetras that have an orange stripe, 1 serpae tetra the bristle nose catfish and a reticulate loach. He's not shy though

Oh, a yoyo loach - they're great.  I have 2 in my 120 litre tank - love em.   Strictly speaking they are also meant to be kept in groups of 4 or more, though mine seem perfectly happy - I'm worried they will get too big however.  I have a heavily planted tank with lots of hiding spaces though.  I wouldn't add any more fish in there, you have plenty for that tank.

I also had hundreds of 'mystery snails' lol. Population exploded despite never buying a snail and starting from scratch. I bought the loach to eat some of them. It's better now but I find heaps inside the filter every week lol

They will have come in as eggs on a plant or something.  If they are exploding in numbers then you may well be overfeeding - they explode in in reaction to excess stuff to feed on in the tank.  Most people feed too much - try cutting down.  You don't even have to feed every day.

Also, try assassin snails:

https://www.aquariumcarebasics.com/freshwater-snails/assassin-snail/


They are pretty cool (unless you're another snail I suppose).

I want to buy a new filter system. The one I have is probably 8 years old, and I can't get the algae out of the part that draws water up (idk what it is called). I was looking at sponge filters on amazon, but I don't know which one to get. There are so many options. 

My thinking is that if you are a casual fish keeper - their will be smells coming from your water you just get used to them and notice, but i might be wrong.

What do you mean 'casual'?You don't care so your captive fish live in putrid water?

It has been my experience that a lot of peoples personal fishtanks have a bit of a smell to them. Putrid is not the word I used.