How does real time lightning tracking work on a flat Earth?

You can go to many sites like www.lightningmaps.org and map.blitzortung.org to see real time lightning strikes.

I have personally verified this works on multiple continents, and can see lightning with my own eyes and watch the strike show up on the tracker. Many of them even plot the shockwave so you can see the thunder coming.

These work by having a series of radio detectors that time each lightning strike very precisely and then triangulate it's position based on the speed of light.

A single set of these in one location wouldn't be a problem, but these are spread across the globe and are operated by multiple groups, many of them provide open source plans for detectors and you can even build and operate them yourself as well as run a server to calculate the data collected by you and others. So it would be difficult for a conspiracy to control all this data and people and organizations.

These strikes are calculated based on a globe map, and if the Earth were flat the triangulation math would not work for distant detectors. Due to how accurate they are, discrepancies would show up quickly.

Here is an example screenshot I just took.  Each + is a strike, and the lines show what detectors tracked it.  You can see that of the three most recent strikes shown, they all were seen by detectors thousands of miles apart, and one was seen all the way across the ocean.

Since you can't square a circle (or sphere a plane) without distortion, the fact that these work on a global scale is very good evidence the Earth is a sphere.



How does flat Earth theory explain this?

You can go to many sites like www.lightningmaps.org and map.blitzortung.org to see real time lightning strikes.

I have personally verified this works on multiple continents, and can see lightning with my own eyes and watch the strike show up on the tracker. Many of them even plot the shockwave so you can see the thunder coming.

These work by having a series of radio detectors that time each lightning strike very precisely and then triangulate it's position based on the speed of light.

A single set of these in one location wouldn't be a problem, but these are spread across the globe and are operated by multiple groups, many of them provide open source plans for detectors and you can even build and operate them yourself as well as run a server to calculate the data collected by you and others. So it would be difficult for a conspiracy to control all this data and people and organizations.

These strikes are calculated based on a globe map, and if the Earth were flat the triangulation math would not work for distant detectors. Due to how accurate they are, discrepancies would show up quickly.

Here is an example screenshot I just took.  Each + is a strike, and the lines show what detectors tracked it.  You can see that of the three most recent strikes shown, they all were seen by detectors thousands of miles apart, and one was seen all the way across the ocean.

Since you can't square a circle (or sphere a plane) without distortion, the fact that these work on a global scale is very good evidence the Earth is a sphere.



How does flat Earth theory explain this?

The trouble is you could post umpteen instances like this relating to real time events or whatever and the believer in the flat earth would be stumped to offer a reasonable explain.

The network of undersea sensors that detect earth quakes and other seismic tests and events that only really make any sense if the world is a globe, which of course it is.

If you put your mind to it you could come up with many more.

Excuse my post as Im just waiting for paint to dry. True. Dry settled weather here needs to be taken advantage off to do any exterior painting. Hence the reason for all my posts today. I don't like painting so any excuse for a break!

The trouble is you could post umpteen instances like this relating to real time events or whatever and the believer in the flat earth would be stumped to offer a reasonable explain.

The network of undersea sensors that detect earth quakes and other seismic tests and events that only really make any sense if the world is a globe, which of course it is.

If you put your mind to it you could come up with many more.

Excuse my post as Im just waiting for paint to dry. True. Dry settled weather here needs to be taken advantage off to do any exterior painting. Hence the reason for all my posts today. I don't like painting so any excuse for a break!

I do enjoy finding examples that are as close to hands-on as possible. In this case you can build your own detectors, and even set up your own independent network and server with a few far away friends if you truly wanted to.

It's more accessible than undersea detectors that the average person can't ever really investigate themselves.

Having something that anyone can do themselves makes the "its a conspiracy!" excuse much harder to float.

I am not surprised nobody has risen to the challenge, this one in particular I think is a tough nut to crack. It's all something you can verify yourself on a modest budget.

If I was a Flat Earther, this would be a great project to determine the true shape of the flat Earth and pull back the curtains on the conspiracy and lies!  Exciting.

These work by having a series of radio detectors that time each lightning strike very precisely and then triangulate it's position based on the speed of light.

This is your central claim. Support it with evidence to demonstrate your point. Otherwise all you've said is, "There's a thing that contradicts you, any comments?"

Please take this debate more seriously if you wish to continue participating on these forums. The silly debate forums are on the bottom, you're in the serious section right now.

Since you can't square a circle (or sphere a plane) without distortion, the fact that these work on a global scale is very good evidence the Earth is a sphere.

Your map appears to be flat

Your map appears to be flat

I was going to give you an F for low effort, but you got an eye-roll out of me so I'll bump it up to a D.

Come on, this is beneath you. I know you can do better. Be best.

Quote from: Bullwinkle on August 01, 2021, 08:32:39 PM

Your map appears to be flat

I was going to give you an F for low effort, but you got an eye-roll out of me so I'll bump it up to a D.

Come on, this is beneath you. I know you can do better. Be best.

Yah, if I posted what Bully did, I would probably get a "low content" warning.

Quote from: Bullwinkle on August 01, 2021, 08:32:39 PM

Your map appears to be flat

I was going to give you an F for low effort, but you got an eye-roll out of me so I'll bump it up to a D.

Come on, this is beneath you. I know you can do better. Be best.

Sorry, I've been in and out of the hospital for the past few months.
Kinda lost focus on the importance of the FES.   

 Things are shifting my way now. 

How does flat Earth theory explain this?

Glad you ask. The data presented here supports Flat Earth, of course. Radio, just like all light, propagates in straight lines. Thus, the experiment uses a line-of-sight detection technique. An example from the chart show that a lightning storm near New Orleans, USA was detected by stations in Columbia, in Denmark, in Poland, in Colorado, and others. The Earth between each of those stations and New Orleans is therefore flat. (It is line-of-site by this measure.) QED.

If Round Earth were true, then New Orleans and Gdansk (Poland), for example, would be nearly 20% of the way around "a globe" from each other, and these line-of-sight observations could not have occurred. (Unless you postulate magic-bendy radio waves, too, or some other invented fiction to keep the narrative alive.)

We do not know what is in the code for that triangulation software package, btw. Why trust what "they" say about it?

If the Earth were a globe, then the Gdansk to New Orleans lightning/radio signal would have followed this "Great Circle" path, as opposed to what your screenshot shows as the observed path.


http://i.ompldr.pw/qbrgkv.gif

(Image generated on http://www.gcmap.com/)

If the Earth were a globe, then the Gdansk to New Orleans lightning/radio signal would have followed this "Great Circle" path, as opposed to what your screenshot shows as the observed path.


Image generated on http://www.gcmap.com/

Here's a detailed map view of stations real-time triangulating lightning strikes from the link above, www.lightningmaps.org:



Looks globe-ish to me.

Here's a detailed map view of stations real-time triangulating lightning strikes from the link above, www.lightningmaps.org:

Looks globe-ish to me.

I'm glad to see that view. Yes, it appears globe-ish to me, too. Nice graphics.

I guess lightningmaps has several presentation styles available to display their data. They do have that highly touted "spherical-triangulation" software hanging around, ready to be used for something. They may as well use it to generate maps that plot (observed) straight lines as curved ones, in order to keep things "looking globe-ish." The RE narrative must need the help.

Either way, the passive collection of line-of-sight radio waves is a clever way to gather information from all over the disc.

Sure, but it's more fun to find that one graphical representation to support your FE ideology and claim all others to be attempts to help what you don't want to be true about reality. 
Oh happy cherrypicking to support the nonsense.  Just like the FE Priests brainwash... err, teach you. 

Quote from: Stash on October 13, 2021, 09:03:39 PM

Here's a detailed map view of stations real-time triangulating lightning strikes from the link above, www.lightningmaps.org:

Looks globe-ish to me.

I'm glad to see that view. Yes, it appears globe-ish to me, too. Nice graphics.

I guess lightningmaps has several presentation styles available to display their data. They do have that highly touted "spherical-triangulation" software hanging around, ready to be used for something. They may as well use it to generate maps that plot (observed) straight lines as curved ones, in order to keep things "looking globe-ish." The RE narrative must need the help.

Either way, the passive collection of line-of-sight radio waves is a clever way to gather information from all over the disc.

Yes, I'm sure the lightning maps folks spent a lot of time faking the renderings so that they can maintain a "globe-ish" view just to try and fool FEr's. I'm pretty sure that's their sole objective. Same with all of the airlines with their fake great circle routes.

If you want more info on the triangulation bit, check out the people that compile the underlying data at https://www.blitzortung.org/en/whats_new.php

They also have a forum which may be useful.

Quote from: JJA on July 15, 2021, 07:17:31 AM

How does flat Earth theory explain this?

Glad you ask. The data presented here supports Flat Earth, of course. Radio, just like all light, propagates in straight lines. Thus, the experiment uses a line-of-sight detection technique. An example from the chart show that a lightning storm near New Orleans, USA was detected by stations in Columbia, in Denmark, in Poland, in Colorado, and others. The Earth between each of those stations and New Orleans is therefore flat. (It is line-of-site by this measure.) QED.

If Round Earth were true, then New Orleans and Gdansk (Poland), for example, would be nearly 20% of the way around "a globe" from each other, and these line-of-sight observations could not have occurred. (Unless you postulate magic-bendy radio waves, too, or some other invented fiction to keep the narrative alive.)

We do not know what is in the code for that triangulation software package, btw. Why trust what "they" say about it?

Simple, radio signals can bounce of the ionosphere. This is how radio waves can be detected by receivers that are over the horizon. Different frequencies of radio waves are affected differently by the ionosphere, and the VHF and up radio waves experience very little reflection off the ionosphere. The properties of the ionosphere differ in the day then at night. There also groundwave propopgation, where MF and lower radio waves can travela long the ground via diffraction. (do not confuse this with refraction, whice is when light rays change direction by passing into another medium, they are NOT the same thing.)

Simple, radio signals can bounce of the ionosphere ... [etc.]

Yes, I agree. That explains it.

"Bouncing" radio waves can seem like unacceptable magic bendy-light, though. I accept it, of course, but a genuine FEer would and should require justification. A sceptic can reasonably find it too fanciful and convenient an 'explanation' to be credible:  "You're telling me radio bounces off of thin air ? (Literally.) Come on! Pull the other leg for a while."

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If you want more info on the triangulation bit, check out the people that compile the underlying data at https://www.blitzortung.org/en/whats_new.php
They also have a forum which may be useful.

Good stuff. Yes, this is very helpful. Thank you.

------------------------------

The OP was not "how do you explain this?" or "What do you think?"; it was "How does FET explain this?"

How does flat Earth theory explain this?    

Since no-one had picked up the challenge in 3 months, I tried my best to put myself in the shoes of an FEer. After all, it is a debate forum ... and this was a topic that had not yet been debated. I came up with: "Radio, just like all light, propagates in straight lines. Thus, the experiment uses a line-of-sight detection technique. ... [So, the fact that observations are taken at thousands of miles proves FE.] ..."

That is pretty good, I thought, and a better argument for FE than one usually finds in these forums. Y'all have successfully countered my objection, however. The lightning experiments are self-consistent, after all. Round Earth Fact is safe, and in good hands.

We need to be aware, though, of how much each of us takes on faith. Probably no one here has built one of these detectors or seen the software animating it. JJA's experience was as a user of the network. He saw local lighting strikes and then saw his local strikes properly plotted on his screen. Have you seen the film The Sting where the con-men fabricated a false news feed in order to fake the outcome of a distant horse race? JJA's (or my) experience of the network is entirely through his (my) computer screen. Why trust that? This is an epistemological problem. What is truth? What is "seeing it with our own eyes?" Can that function be delegated to our computers? What if JJA had seen this on his computer screen?
He could be told that the pot-of-gold network is real, and that he could find gold for himself ... all he needs is a pair of stout hiking boots, a song to whistle and some determination to follow rainbows. It is up to him entirely ... why are we all still sitting at home? You can verify it for yourself. The following statements apply equally well to both lighting networks and pots-o'-gold:

I do enjoy finding examples that are as close to hands-on as possible. In this case you can build your own detectors ... [follow a rainbow] ..., and even set up your own independent network and server with a few far away friends ... [hiking party] ... if you truly wanted to.

It's more accessible than undersea detectors that the average person can't ever really investigate themselves.

Having something that anyone can do themselves makes the "its a conspiracy!" excuse much harder to float.

I am not surprised nobody has risen to the challenge, this one in particular I think is a tough nut to crack. It's all something you can verify yourself on a modest budget.

If I was a Flat Earther ... [Pot-of-Gold adventurer] ..., this would be a great project to determine the true shape of the flat Earth ... [true nature of Rainbows] ... and pull back the curtains on the conspiracy and lies!  Exciting.

But JJA did none of that. He verified little and built nothing. Neither have you or I. It is all hypothetical ("you can" and "would be"). What firsthand knowledge do we have of either narrative? We simply accept what our screens tell us.

Serious question: Why do we believe the lightning network is real and the pot-o'-gold network is not? We have the same firsthand knowledge of each (i.e., virtually none).

But JJA did none of that. He verified little and built nothing. Neither have you or I. It is all hypothetical ("you can" and "would be"). What firsthand knowledge do we have of either narrative? We simply accept what our screens tell us.

Serious question: Why do we believe the lightning network is real and the pot-o'-gold network is not? We have the same firsthand knowledge of each (i.e., virtually none).

Somehow I missed these replies, so I'm going to necro this, and even though Thunderwolf hasn't logged in since 2021, maybe whatever alt he is using now will see this and reply. We can all pretend they are a different person if that helps.

The reason I believe in the lightning network and not the pot-o-gold network is many reasons.

1. I can buy and build a detector and submit data myself.  I would have done so, but my area is well covered, the plans are well discussed and detailed.

2. I can talk to people who have such detectors and verify that they are real. There are thousands of people using and talking about them. All paid actors?

3. There is an enormous amount of documentation on how it works, consistent with science and observations. I understand it's methods, while pot-o-gold has no explanations.

4. To fake a worldwide network of lightning strikes requires you to track lightning strikes worldwide, otherwise people like me who check them (not locally but I've verified this in person in several countries), so you fake this network you need to make the network first.

This is a good example of a flat earther being unable to intelligently evaluate evidence. Him thinking we have the same firsthand knowledge between the real, and his made up network is factually wrong, and is also based on faulty logic and bad reasoning. When he can show me his pot-o-gold network operating over a decade with thousands of stations and detailed technical designs and pots of gold I can verify with my own eyes, then he can talk.

If you are unable to evaluate and weigh evidence, your entire worldview is going to be distorted. Literally in this case.

How does real time lightning tracking work on a flat Earth?

How does flat Earth theory explain this?

These work by having a series of radio detectors that time each lightning strike very precisely and then triangulate it's position based on the speed of light.

Ummm, cool.

How does real time lightning tracking work on a flat Earth?

Quote from: JJA on July 15, 2021, 07:17:31 AM

How does flat Earth theory explain this?

Quote from: JJA on July 15, 2021, 07:17:31 AM

These work by having a series of radio detectors that time each lightning strike very precisely and then triangulate it's position based on the speed of light.

Ummm, cool.

Gosh, how simple.  Can you please point me to the flat earth map you can use for these calculations?  And explain why they work perfectly when used on a globe map?