What are meteors, if space doesn't exist?

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 17, 2021, 05:56:47 AM

To attract is to pull.
There is no such thing as pull.
So right away your mass attracting mass, is dead,

There is no such thing as attraction / pull?  Have you never placed two magnets on a table and then moved first one closer to the second one and have the second one be attracted and pulled and move to the first one? It's a simple experiment -- even you could do it (an assumption).

That establishes that attraction / pull exists. And the fact that masses attract each other has been proven and measured here:

http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/sites/sand.npl.washington.edu.eotwash/files/documents/prl85-2869.pdf

Read and learn.

Reference anything you feel backs you up. Just remember that you are reliant on that reference as your reality without you knowing if it is a reality.

I'm just giving my side and I don't expect you to give it any attention. You stick to the books.

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 17, 2021, 05:58:03 AM

If you are not willing to understand it then it's your problem, not mine.

I am willing to understand, the problem is that you are not willing to explain.

I'm not going to go through this again so I'll leave it at that, with you.

Quote from: JackBlack on July 17, 2021, 02:55:09 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 17, 2021, 05:58:03 AM

If you are not willing to understand it then it's your problem, not mine.

I am willing to understand, the problem is that you are not willing to explain.

I'm not going to go through this again so I'll leave it at that, with you.

You haven't gone through it in the first place.
All you do is dodge.

If you don't want to get called out for spouting such nonsense, stop spouting it.

If you truly think it isn't nonsense, then try to actually address the issue.
Try explaining how the air pushes objects down.
In doing so, you need to acknowledge that the pressure is higher below the object, so you have low pressure air pushing the object down into high pressure air.

This is impossible, but it is what you need to do in order to have your model work.

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 17, 2021, 05:56:47 AM

To attract is to pull.
There is no such thing as pull.
So right away your mass attracting mass, is dead,

There is no such thing as attraction / pull?  Have you never placed two magnets on a table and then moved first one closer to the second one and have the second one be attracted and pulled and move to the first one? It's a simple experiment -- even you could do it (an assumption).

That establishes that attraction / pull exists. And the fact that masses attract each other has been proven and measured here:

http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/sites/sand.npl.washington.edu.eotwash/files/documents/prl85-2869.pdf

Read and learn.

Skepti seems to have this weird notion that pulling does not exist in any form, that everything is caused by pushing. He's had long arguments about his disbelief of puling with many people.

I've yet to clearly determine if this is some kind of language barrier, semantic argument or if he just simply can't conventionalize the idea of 'pull' and rejects it from his version of reality.  Ask him how ropes and chains work, that should be informative.

Be prepared for a long slog here.

Quote from: Platonius21 on July 17, 2021, 07:58:35 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 17, 2021, 05:56:47 AM

To attract is to pull.
There is no such thing as pull.
So right away your mass attracting mass, is dead,

There is no such thing as attraction / pull?  Have you never placed two magnets on a table and then moved first one closer to the second one and have the second one be attracted and pulled and move to the first one? It's a simple experiment -- even you could do it (an assumption).

That establishes that attraction / pull exists. And the fact that masses attract each other has been proven and measured here:

http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/sites/sand.npl.washington.edu.eotwash/files/documents/prl85-2869.pdf

Read and learn.

Reference anything you feel backs you up. Just remember that you are reliant on that reference as your reality without you knowing if it is a reality.

I'm just giving my side and I don't expect you to give it any attention. You stick to the books.

You completely ignored the experiment about magnets attracting, because it is a simple experiment proving your statement that attraction (or "pull", as you call it) does not exist is FALSE.

I even did the experiment for you since I know you won't



So now you can see the attraction for your self. "Pull" exists!

I even did the experiment for you since I know you won't



So now you can see the attraction for your self. "Pull" exists!

He claims that it is the air flowing through the magnet with some magic pump inside causing a pressure differential to push the magnet.
The problem is when you turn the magnets around. With his nonsense, they should repel, but in reality, they still attract.

Here is where he started spouting his nonsense on magnets last time it was brought up to show pulling forces are real:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=87840.msg2305132#msg2305132

I even did the experiment for you since I know you won't



So now you can see the attraction for your self. "Pull" exists!

The magnet works just like atmospheric pressure works.
It's energy that creates the compression. The push.
The magnets you show are not attracting.
The magnet is altering the atmospheric pressure and pushing it around the other magnet which pushes that magnet into the original.

No attraction, just push. In my opinion.

The magnet is altering the atmospheric pressure and pushing it around the other magnet which pushes that magnet into the original.

How does the magnet know how and when to do this? 
How does the magnet know when to "alter" the atmospheric pressure and instruct it to swoop around the far side of the other magnet and push it?

What is the magnet's mechanism for altering and directing atmospheric pressure to the far side of the pushed magnet?
How does it know to not alter atmospheric pressure and swoop around and push if the other object is not magnetic? How does it make that decision?

The magnet works just like atmospheric pressure works.
It's energy that creates the compression. The push.
The magnets you show are not attracting.
The magnet is altering the atmospheric pressure and pushing it around the other magnet which pushes that magnet into the original.

No attraction, just push. In my opinion.

Yet it still works in a vacuum, and through solid materials.
And there is the massive issue of polarity you repeatedly fled from as you couldn't explain it.

Clearly it isn't the atmosphere.

If you want to pretend it is the atmosphere, clearly explain why all magnets have 2 poles, where like poles repel and opposite poles attract.
That simply cannot happen with the air.

Or get back to your prior issue and explain how the low pressure air pushes objects down into the higher pressure below.

Quote from: Platonius21 on July 17, 2021, 07:58:35 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 17, 2021, 05:56:47 AM

To attract is to pull.
There is no such thing as pull.
So right away your mass attracting mass, is dead,

There is no such thing as attraction / pull?  Have you never placed two magnets on a table and then moved first one closer to the second one and have the second one be attracted and pulled and move to the first one? It's a simple experiment -- even you could do it (an assumption).

That establishes that attraction / pull exists. And the fact that masses attract each other has been proven and measured here:

http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/sites/sand.npl.washington.edu.eotwash/files/documents/prl85-2869.pdf

Read and learn.

Reference anything you feel backs you up. Just remember that you are reliant on that reference as your reality without you knowing if it is a reality.

I'm just giving my side and I don't expect you to give it any attention. You stick to the books.

If you don’t acquire your own knowledge from books, where does it come from and by what process has it been validated?

The advantage of knowledge from books is that it is generally an accumulation of knowledge from many people and sources which has been verified and shown to be accurate.

The main problem with everything you say is that it is no more than your own single untested and unverified opinion. Only you believe in what you say. Nothing you sat has been independently tested for it’s accuracy.

Certain things you say are totally wrong and can quite easily be shown to be so. Your belief around vacuums. You say they do not exist, but the reality is hard vacuums are used in many manufacturing processes. Their existence is beyond any doubt.
Just saying they don’t exist to suit your argument is just a denial of reality.

Take your belief in your magic molecules, the ones that can pass in and out of any solid surfaces. You have never witnessed this, you have never tested it, all you have done is imagined it.

You position where you think your own solo imagined ‘ideas’ are somehow superior to theories that have been tested and validated by many people over numerous generations is the real puzzle.

How you continue to think you are correct and the world is wrong with zero evidence to back up what you believe is the real puzzle.

Quote from: Platonius21 on July 18, 2021, 01:39:35 PM

I even did the experiment for you since I know you won't



So now you can see the attraction for your self. "Pull" exists!

The magnet works just like atmospheric pressure works.
It's energy that creates the compression. The push.
The magnets you show are not attracting.
The magnet is altering the atmospheric pressure and pushing it around the other magnet which pushes that magnet into the original.

No attraction, just push. In my opinion.

Repeat with iron fillings.

The problem is the whole world wide electricity generation system disagrees with you, as does every electric motor, or Dynamo in existence. Reality is a real bummer!

Our world is built on the fact that A wire moving through a magnetic field will produce an emf. This is not a discovery I made but one made by Faraday, one of the first ‘experts’ in electricity. You should go read up about him. You might even learn something.

Try snd explain how electricity is generated using your air pressure ideas.

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 18, 2021, 11:30:57 PM

The magnet is altering the atmospheric pressure and pushing it around the other magnet which pushes that magnet into the original.

How does the magnet know how and when to do this? 

Atmosphere is always trying to equalise pressure within a magnet.
The trapped atmosphere creates a resistance to the external atmosphere because it's unable to equalise directly and is compressed around the magnet where it carries a pushing force of that atmosphere.


We are talking smaller scale than just breathable air.
This is why I use atmosphere.

If I place a magnet inside an air tight container. Why is it still affected by another magnet outside the container?'

You cannot just rid a magnet of it's trapped atmosphere by trying to decompress air.
All you're doing is allowing decompression by using external energy (pump) which pushes back the atmosphere and allows natural molecular expansion from the container.

In terms of a magnet, it requires much more energy to rid it of it's trapped atmosphere.
Smashing it out will lose some. Heating it up will cause it to lose it because you're forcing out by expansion on a bigger scale, energy wise.

You can still trap the atmosphere again and remagnetise if the energy applied is not sufficient enough.

As for magnets working through solids. Trapped atmosphere within and against another magnet will still create the openings due to porosity on that small scale.

Yet it still works in a vacuum, and through solid materials.

No such thing as a vacuum and it depends on the solid materials and thickness.

How you continue to think you are correct and the world is wrong with zero evidence to back up what you believe is the real puzzle.

The world is wrong?
Wrong on what?

The real puzzle is in why you think the world is wrong.

The problem is the whole world wide electricity generation system disagrees with you, as does every electric motor, or Dynamo in existence. Reality is a real bummer!

Our world is built on the fact that A wire moving through a magnetic field will produce an emf. This is not a discovery I made but one made by Faraday, one of the first ‘experts’ in electricity. You should go read up about him. You might even learn something.

Try snd explain how electricity is generated using your air pressure ideas.

Very simple.

Imagine a wire as being a tube and you decide to push atmosphere into it. The more pressure you apply the more the molecular build up towards the exit to the motor.
The more agitation the more movement of the motor, as long as there is an outlet to keep the pressure on whilst keeping an exit.


This is also why the speed of light is nonsense and the movement is always instant in terms of molecular crashing.
Newtons cradle will provide the answers.

Quote from: Stash on July 18, 2021, 11:47:59 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 18, 2021, 11:30:57 PM

The magnet is altering the atmospheric pressure and pushing it around the other magnet which pushes that magnet into the original.

How does the magnet know how and when to do this? 

Atmosphere is always trying to equalise pressure within a magnet.
The trapped atmosphere creates a resistance to the external atmosphere because it's unable to equalise directly and is compressed around the magnet where it carries a pushing force of that atmosphere.

You're not answering the question: How does the magnet know when to "alter" the atmospheric pressure and instruct it to swoop around the far side of the other magnet and push it?

How does it know to "push" ONLY from the far side of the stationary magnet?

As others have pointed out, if I put a glass over the stationary magnet, how does the "pushing" magnet sneak some sort of atmospheric pressure into the glass, swoop around the far side of the stationary magnet and "push" it toward the wall of the glass closest to the "pushing" magnet?

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 19, 2021, 06:43:11 AM

Quote from: Stash on July 18, 2021, 11:47:59 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 18, 2021, 11:30:57 PM

The magnet is altering the atmospheric pressure and pushing it around the other magnet which pushes that magnet into the original.

How does the magnet know how and when to do this? 

Atmosphere is always trying to equalise pressure within a magnet.
The trapped atmosphere creates a resistance to the external atmosphere because it's unable to equalise directly and is compressed around the magnet where it carries a pushing force of that atmosphere.

You're not answering the question: How does the magnet know when to "alter" the atmospheric pressure and instruct it to swoop around the far side of the other magnet and push it?

How does it know to "push" ONLY from the far side of the stationary magnet?

As others have pointed out, if I put a glass over the stationary magnet, how does the "pushing" magnet sneak some sort of atmospheric pressure into the glass, swoop around the far side of the stationary magnet and "push" it toward the wall of the glass closest to the "pushing" magnet?

It doesn't sneak any atmospheric pressure into the glass. The atmosphere is already in the glass on it's own, as in, like we all know....est 15 psi.

The magnet has broken down atmosphere trapped within it. Molecular breakdown like you'd get with hydrogen and what not.

It's all about reaction to something similar.

Quote from: Stash on July 19, 2021, 07:20:28 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 19, 2021, 06:43:11 AM

Quote from: Stash on July 18, 2021, 11:47:59 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 18, 2021, 11:30:57 PM

The magnet is altering the atmospheric pressure and pushing it around the other magnet which pushes that magnet into the original.

How does the magnet know how and when to do this? 

Atmosphere is always trying to equalise pressure within a magnet.
The trapped atmosphere creates a resistance to the external atmosphere because it's unable to equalise directly and is compressed around the magnet where it carries a pushing force of that atmosphere.

You're not answering the question: How does the magnet know when to "alter" the atmospheric pressure and instruct it to swoop around the far side of the other magnet and push it?

How does it know to "push" ONLY from the far side of the stationary magnet?

As others have pointed out, if I put a glass over the stationary magnet, how does the "pushing" magnet sneak some sort of atmospheric pressure into the glass, swoop around the far side of the stationary magnet and "push" it toward the wall of the glass closest to the "pushing" magnet?

It doesn't sneak any atmospheric pressure into the glass. The atmosphere is already in the glass on it's own, as in, like we all know....est 15 psi.

The magnet has broken down atmosphere trapped within it. Molecular breakdown like you'd get with hydrogen and what not.

It's all about reaction to something similar.

You're not answering the question: How does the magnet know when to "alter" the atmospheric pressure and instruct it to swoop around the far side of the other magnet and push it?

How does it know to "push" ONLY from the far side of the stationary magnet?

Quote from: Stash on July 18, 2021, 11:47:59 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 18, 2021, 11:30:57 PM

The magnet is altering the atmospheric pressure and pushing it around the other magnet which pushes that magnet into the original.

How does the magnet know how and when to do this? 

Atmosphere is always trying to equalise pressure within a magnet.
The trapped atmosphere creates a resistance to the external atmosphere because it's unable to equalise directly and is compressed around the magnet where it carries a pushing force of that atmosphere.

So how does your magic atmosphere know which way to push in the illustration below?  How does it know when to change the push direction? Is it watching my fingers?

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 19, 2021, 07:33:33 AM

Quote from: Stash on July 19, 2021, 07:20:28 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 19, 2021, 06:43:11 AM

Quote from: Stash on July 18, 2021, 11:47:59 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 18, 2021, 11:30:57 PM

The magnet is altering the atmospheric pressure and pushing it around the other magnet which pushes that magnet into the original.

How does the magnet know how and when to do this? 

Atmosphere is always trying to equalise pressure within a magnet.
The trapped atmosphere creates a resistance to the external atmosphere because it's unable to equalise directly and is compressed around the magnet where it carries a pushing force of that atmosphere.

You're not answering the question: How does the magnet know when to "alter" the atmospheric pressure and instruct it to swoop around the far side of the other magnet and push it?

How does it know to "push" ONLY from the far side of the stationary magnet?

As others have pointed out, if I put a glass over the stationary magnet, how does the "pushing" magnet sneak some sort of atmospheric pressure into the glass, swoop around the far side of the stationary magnet and "push" it toward the wall of the glass closest to the "pushing" magnet?

It doesn't sneak any atmospheric pressure into the glass. The atmosphere is already in the glass on it's own, as in, like we all know....est 15 psi.

The magnet has broken down atmosphere trapped within it. Molecular breakdown like you'd get with hydrogen and what not.

It's all about reaction to something similar.

You're not answering the question: How does the magnet know when to "alter" the atmospheric pressure and instruct it to swoop around the far side of the other magnet and push it?

How does it know to "push" ONLY from the far side of the stationary magnet?

A vortex.

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 19, 2021, 06:43:11 AM

Quote from: Stash on July 18, 2021, 11:47:59 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 18, 2021, 11:30:57 PM

The magnet is altering the atmospheric pressure and pushing it around the other magnet which pushes that magnet into the original.

How does the magnet know how and when to do this? 

Atmosphere is always trying to equalise pressure within a magnet.
The trapped atmosphere creates a resistance to the external atmosphere because it's unable to equalise directly and is compressed around the magnet where it carries a pushing force of that atmosphere.

So how does your magic atmosphere know which way to push in the illustration below?  How does it know when to change the push direction? Is it watching my fingers?

Atmospheric vortex.

Quote from: Stash on July 19, 2021, 07:35:59 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 19, 2021, 07:33:33 AM

Quote from: Stash on July 19, 2021, 07:20:28 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 19, 2021, 06:43:11 AM

Quote from: Stash on July 18, 2021, 11:47:59 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 18, 2021, 11:30:57 PM

The magnet is altering the atmospheric pressure and pushing it around the other magnet which pushes that magnet into the original.

How does the magnet know how and when to do this? 

Atmosphere is always trying to equalise pressure within a magnet.
The trapped atmosphere creates a resistance to the external atmosphere because it's unable to equalise directly and is compressed around the magnet where it carries a pushing force of that atmosphere.

You're not answering the question: How does the magnet know when to "alter" the atmospheric pressure and instruct it to swoop around the far side of the other magnet and push it?

How does it know to "push" ONLY from the far side of the stationary magnet?

As others have pointed out, if I put a glass over the stationary magnet, how does the "pushing" magnet sneak some sort of atmospheric pressure into the glass, swoop around the far side of the stationary magnet and "push" it toward the wall of the glass closest to the "pushing" magnet?

It doesn't sneak any atmospheric pressure into the glass. The atmosphere is already in the glass on it's own, as in, like we all know....est 15 psi.

The magnet has broken down atmosphere trapped within it. Molecular breakdown like you'd get with hydrogen and what not.

It's all about reaction to something similar.

You're not answering the question: How does the magnet know when to "alter" the atmospheric pressure and instruct it to swoop around the far side of the other magnet and push it?

How does it know to "push" ONLY from the far side of the stationary magnet?

A vortex.

What's a vortex in this context and how does it know to "push" ONLY from the far side of the stationary magnet?

Quote from: Timeisup on July 19, 2021, 01:37:49 AM

The problem is the whole world wide electricity generation system disagrees with you, as does every electric motor, or Dynamo in existence. Reality is a real bummer!

Our world is built on the fact that A wire moving through a magnetic field will produce an emf. This is not a discovery I made but one made by Faraday, one of the first ‘experts’ in electricity. You should go read up about him. You might even learn something.

Try snd explain how electricity is generated using your air pressure ideas.

Very simple.

Imagine a wire as being a tube and you decide to push atmosphere into it. The more pressure you apply the more the molecular build up towards the exit to the motor.
The more agitation the more movement of the motor, as long as there is an outlet to keep the pressure on whilst keeping an exit.


This is also why the speed of light is nonsense and the movement is always instant in terms of molecular crashing.
Newtons cradle will provide the answers.

What about the iron filings? Sprinkle them.....what are the lines showing?

Quote from: Platonius21 on July 19, 2021, 07:52:16 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 19, 2021, 06:43:11 AM

Quote from: Stash on July 18, 2021, 11:47:59 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 18, 2021, 11:30:57 PM

The magnet is altering the atmospheric pressure and pushing it around the other magnet which pushes that magnet into the original.

How does the magnet know how and when to do this? 

Atmosphere is always trying to equalise pressure within a magnet.
The trapped atmosphere creates a resistance to the external atmosphere because it's unable to equalise directly and is compressed around the magnet where it carries a pushing force of that atmosphere.

So how does your magic atmosphere know which way to push in the illustration below?  How does it know when to change the push direction? Is it watching my fingers?

Atmospheric vortex.

Really?  I didn't notice any vortex in the room when I made the video. And you still have not answered: How does the "vortex" know when to change the push to the other direction? Does it have eyes? Is it watching my fingers?

No such thing as a vacuum and it depends on the solid materials and thickness.

You not liking a vacuum doesn't magically mean it doesn't exist.
It doesn't need to be a perfect vacuum.

Again, rather than just asserting it all magically works, try to actually address the issues.

We know that it works through atmosphere-tight containers. They are impermeable to the atmosphere. Yet magnetism works just fine through them.
That is something you cannot explain.

That alone quite clearly shows it isn't the atmosphere. Instead you need a magical non-material fluid which can penetrate all matter. But that raises the question of how it manages to push the object in the first place?

Likewise, we know how the polarity of magnets work, with like poles repelling and opposite poles attracting. You cannot explain how that works with your magic air.

Likewise, we know how some materials are ferromagnetic, some are paramagnetic and some are diamagnetic.
It makes no sense for there to be these different types of materials if it was just the air.

The real puzzle is in why you think the world is wrong.

We don't, you do.
You think the world is wrong on so many different things. Yet you cannot offer any viable alternative.
Instead you provide a bunch of nonsense which is trivial to refute, then flee.

Atmospheric vortex.

Try drawing a picture.
Show 2 N poles pointing towards each other, then 2 S poles, then a N pole pointing to a S pole, then 2 magnets sideways so N is up on both, then so N is up on one and S is up on the other.

5 simple diagrams showing the main possible types of interactions between 2 magnets.

Or, get back to your air and explain how the low pressure air pushes objects down into the high pressure air below.

What's a vortex in this context and how does it know to "push" ONLY from the far side of the stationary magnet?

How does it know?

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 19, 2021, 06:58:29 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 19, 2021, 01:37:49 AM

The problem is the whole world wide electricity generation system disagrees with you, as does every electric motor, or Dynamo in existence. Reality is a real bummer!

Our world is built on the fact that A wire moving through a magnetic field will produce an emf. This is not a discovery I made but one made by Faraday, one of the first ‘experts’ in electricity. You should go read up about him. You might even learn something.

Try snd explain how electricity is generated using your air pressure ideas.

Very simple.

Imagine a wire as being a tube and you decide to push atmosphere into it. The more pressure you apply the more the molecular build up towards the exit to the motor.
The more agitation the more movement of the motor, as long as there is an outlet to keep the pressure on whilst keeping an exit.


This is also why the speed of light is nonsense and the movement is always instant in terms of molecular crashing.
Newtons cradle will provide the answers.

What about the iron filings? Sprinkle them.....what are the lines showing?

They're showing how the atmospheric force is working.

You not liking a vacuum doesn't magically mean it doesn't exist.

No a very good answer so we'll leave it there.