What are meteors, if space doesn't exist?

Meteors are small fragments of rock or ice that enter Earth's atmosphere from space and burn up due to friction. But Flat Earthers say that space is a lie, so where do all the meteors come from? Does the government project them onto the sky?

Not-very-subtle jabs at the FES aside, when I posted this question on this forum before, somebody told me that these meteors could be ice forming on the (supposedly solid) top of the sky from gases freezing because it's so cold up there. But this contradicts the day-night model, because since the Sun is inside Earth's sky, it should be hot up there on the top of the sky because the Sun is located all the way up there.

So if they can't be coming from space according to Flat Earthers, and I just debunked one possible explanation for them, then what are meteors?

Maybe a few people that claim the earth is flat say space is a lie but not all. If your entire argument is based on a silly generalization and ignorance then this will be a very short thread. I think we're done already here

Dislodged dome icicles.

Dislodged dome icicles.

What dislodged them and drew them to earth. Gravity??

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 04, 2021, 09:30:34 AM

Dislodged dome icicles.

What dislodged them and drew them to earth. Gravity??

Clearly the stacked air above them.

Dislodged dome icicles.

Sorry try again totally wrong as there is no dome neither you or anyone else has ever seen it, it being no more than an idea from an ancient belief system that was dispensed with once the truth was known over a thousand years ago. Meteors are seen all the time, mostly made from either rock or metal, though a few made from ice, forget the name, fall every now and then though few reach the ground. Science museums  around the world are full of such metal and rock meteors on display. Scientist go on hunts and pick them up in places like Antarctica where they stand out against the snow. Shooting stars, tiny grains like sand, can be seen most nights, though on certain predicted nights of the year when the earth passes through remnants of old comet tails there can be a constant rain of ‘shooting stars’.
Larger meteors burning up in the atmosphere are regularly filmed, particularly on security cameras.
As to them being bits of ice that have fallen off  the dome, that’s just silly talk with zero evidence.

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 04, 2021, 09:30:34 AM

Dislodged dome icicles.

What dislodged them and drew them to earth. Gravity??

Molecular breakdown by friction.

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 04, 2021, 09:30:34 AM

Dislodged dome icicles.

Sorry try again totally wrong as there is no dome neither you or anyone else has ever seen it, it being no more than an idea from an ancient belief system that was dispensed with once the truth was known over a thousand years ago. Meteors are seen all the time, mostly made from either rock or metal, though a few made from ice, forget the name, fall every now and then though few reach the ground. Science museums  around the world are full of such metal and rock meteors on display. Scientist go on hunts and pick them up in places like Antarctica where they stand out against the snow. Shooting stars, tiny grains like sand, can be seen most nights, though on certain predicted nights of the year when the earth passes through remnants of old comet tails there can be a constant rain of ‘shooting stars’.
Larger meteors burning up in the atmosphere are regularly filmed, particularly on security cameras.
As to them being bits of ice that have fallen off  the dome, that’s just silly talk with zero evidence.

I can only give my side which, based on what you think, will never cut it with you and I'm more than happy with that.

Quote from: Timeisup on July 05, 2021, 12:12:56 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 04, 2021, 09:30:34 AM

Dislodged dome icicles.

Sorry try again totally wrong as there is no dome neither you or anyone else has ever seen it, it being no more than an idea from an ancient belief system that was dispensed with once the truth was known over a thousand years ago. Meteors are seen all the time, mostly made from either rock or metal, though a few made from ice, forget the name, fall every now and then though few reach the ground. Science museums  around the world are full of such metal and rock meteors on display. Scientist go on hunts and pick them up in places like Antarctica where they stand out against the snow. Shooting stars, tiny grains like sand, can be seen most nights, though on certain predicted nights of the year when the earth passes through remnants of old comet tails there can be a constant rain of ‘shooting stars’.
Larger meteors burning up in the atmosphere are regularly filmed, particularly on security cameras.
As to them being bits of ice that have fallen off  the dome, that’s just silly talk with zero evidence.

I can only give my side which, based on what you think, will never cut it with you and I'm more than happy with that.

As NSS pointed out, how does the stack push the icicles down? If they come from the dome, they are at the top of the stack, no stack above them? How does that work?

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 06, 2021, 10:33:49 PM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 05, 2021, 12:12:56 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 04, 2021, 09:30:34 AM

Dislodged dome icicles.

Sorry try again totally wrong as there is no dome neither you or anyone else has ever seen it, it being no more than an idea from an ancient belief system that was dispensed with once the truth was known over a thousand years ago. Meteors are seen all the time, mostly made from either rock or metal, though a few made from ice, forget the name, fall every now and then though few reach the ground. Science museums  around the world are full of such metal and rock meteors on display. Scientist go on hunts and pick them up in places like Antarctica where they stand out against the snow. Shooting stars, tiny grains like sand, can be seen most nights, though on certain predicted nights of the year when the earth passes through remnants of old comet tails there can be a constant rain of ‘shooting stars’.
Larger meteors burning up in the atmosphere are regularly filmed, particularly on security cameras.
As to them being bits of ice that have fallen off  the dome, that’s just silly talk with zero evidence.

I can only give my side which, based on what you think, will never cut it with you and I'm more than happy with that.

As NSS pointed out, how does the stack push the icicles down? If they come from the dome, they are at the top of the stack, no stack above them? How does that work?

The icicle itself is stacked against the dome.
Once friction starts the mass of the frozen icicle against the dome will be pushed against by resistance of it's friction against the dome friction which will create the push on push I've mentioned for long enough.

This will then break apart the icicle and that icicle will carry on being push on push all the way through the upper atmosphere and friction burning/glowing until it basically burns up.

Quote from: Stash on July 06, 2021, 11:38:01 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 06, 2021, 10:33:49 PM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 05, 2021, 12:12:56 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 04, 2021, 09:30:34 AM

Dislodged dome icicles.

Sorry try again totally wrong as there is no dome neither you or anyone else has ever seen it, it being no more than an idea from an ancient belief system that was dispensed with once the truth was known over a thousand years ago. Meteors are seen all the time, mostly made from either rock or metal, though a few made from ice, forget the name, fall every now and then though few reach the ground. Science museums  around the world are full of such metal and rock meteors on display. Scientist go on hunts and pick them up in places like Antarctica where they stand out against the snow. Shooting stars, tiny grains like sand, can be seen most nights, though on certain predicted nights of the year when the earth passes through remnants of old comet tails there can be a constant rain of ‘shooting stars’.
Larger meteors burning up in the atmosphere are regularly filmed, particularly on security cameras.
As to them being bits of ice that have fallen off  the dome, that’s just silly talk with zero evidence.

I can only give my side which, based on what you think, will never cut it with you and I'm more than happy with that.

As NSS pointed out, how does the stack push the icicles down? If they come from the dome, they are at the top of the stack, no stack above them? How does that work?

The icicle itself is stacked against the dome.
Once friction starts the mass of the frozen icicle against the dome will be pushed against by resistance of it's friction against the dome friction which will create the push on push I've mentioned for long enough.

This will then break apart the icicle and that icicle will carry on being push on push all the way through the upper atmosphere and friction burning/glowing until it basically burns up.

What causes this friction? And what do you mean by "friction"?

What is pushing down on the icicle if it's at the top of the stack? There's no stack above it. It's at the top? it's the end of the line.

You've mentioned it, "the frozen icicle against the dome will be pushed against by resistance of it's friction against the dome friction which will create the push on push", but it makes no sense. You've literally just strung words together. You have to be way more specific than, "There's friction, push on push" and such. The actual step by step mechanics are required. What happens to dome icicle day one? Day two, it starts to separate from the dome. Why? How? Day three, the stack sneaks into the fracture and starts to push down? I thought the stack was super weak up there. How does it do that? Push down a mass greater than itself.

Be specific. Lay it out, step by step, stage by stage. Lay out the discrete elements.

One of the reasons that no one takes denpressure seriously, FE or RE, is that it's so non-specific. You keep it very vague for reasons. You might contend that you don't. But you actually do.

Quote from: Stash on July 06, 2021, 11:38:01 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 06, 2021, 10:33:49 PM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 05, 2021, 12:12:56 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 04, 2021, 09:30:34 AM

Dislodged dome icicles.

Sorry try again totally wrong as there is no dome neither you or anyone else has ever seen it, it being no more than an idea from an ancient belief system that was dispensed with once the truth was known over a thousand years ago. Meteors are seen all the time, mostly made from either rock or metal, though a few made from ice, forget the name, fall every now and then though few reach the ground. Science museums  around the world are full of such metal and rock meteors on display. Scientist go on hunts and pick them up in places like Antarctica where they stand out against the snow. Shooting stars, tiny grains like sand, can be seen most nights, though on certain predicted nights of the year when the earth passes through remnants of old comet tails there can be a constant rain of ‘shooting stars’.
Larger meteors burning up in the atmosphere are regularly filmed, particularly on security cameras.
As to them being bits of ice that have fallen off  the dome, that’s just silly talk with zero evidence.

I can only give my side which, based on what you think, will never cut it with you and I'm more than happy with that.

As NSS pointed out, how does the stack push the icicles down? If they come from the dome, they are at the top of the stack, no stack above them? How does that work?

The icicle itself is stacked against the dome.
Once friction starts the mass of the frozen icicle against the dome will be pushed against by resistance of it's friction against the dome friction which will create the push on push I've mentioned for long enough.

This will then break apart the icicle and that icicle will carry on being push on push all the way through the upper atmosphere and friction burning/glowing until it basically burns up.

Please explain how the majority of meteors collected are either metallic or rock.

How many meteors that you describe have been observed and collected.

How did you manage to observe and record the process you describe that you allege are responsible for meteors?

Can you explain how you observe the dome on which your alleged meteors form.

What causes this friction? And what do you mean by "friction"?

What I mean by friction is what it means in everyday life. We're all under it in every way shape and form.
It's energy/pressure, vibration (friction) and frequency.

What is pushing down on the icicle if it's at the top of the stack? There's no stack above it. It's at the top? it's the end of the line.

It's not exactly at the top of the stack. It's on the dome which is still part of the stacking mechanism.

You've mentioned it, "the frozen icicle against the dome will be pushed against by resistance of it's friction against the dome friction which will create the push on push", but it makes no sense.

Then pay better attention for you, without using your schooled stuff to create a barrier to it.
I'll answer your questions with questions at times because you might get the idea.

How does water expand?
How do icicle on a roof (for instance) start to hang from it.
Believe me this is relevant to m e explaining to you if you can grasp it.

You've literally just strung words together. You have to be way more specific than, "There's friction, push on push" and such.

I may have done of you can't understand them...to you.
I'll try and be clearer by you trying to make it clearer for yourself. It takes two to tango.

The actual step by step mechanics are required. What happens to dome icicle day one?

Day one, it builds.

Day two, it starts to separate from the dome. Why? How?

Day two it builds and likely day 3 and 4 or whatever, depending on where it is on the dome and the friction that's created.

Day three, the stack sneaks into the fracture and starts to push down?

Day whatever, the icicle becomes more dense as it pushes through the stacked layers below which pushes them away from it but also back onto it in a more compressed manner.
This friction created levers the icicle off the dome.

I thought the stack was super weak up there. How does it do that? Push down a mass greater than itself.

Compared to down here, it will be.

Be specific. Lay it out, step by step, stage by stage. Lay out the discrete elements.

I'm trying to.

One of the reasons that no one takes denpressure seriously, FE or RE, is that it's so non-specific. You keep it very vague for reasons. You might contend that you don't. But you actually do.

That's entirely up to you people. I don't care if you don;t take it seriously...but...if you are serious in understanding it from my side, put your own effort in.

I'm putting a ot in and generally it's against many of you lot, so imagine you having to answer to all.

Please explain how the majority of meteors collected are either metallic or rock.

How do you know this?

How many meteors that you describe have been observed and collected.

I don't know of any.

How did you manage to observe and record the process you describe that you allege are responsible for meteors?

Just simple experiments with evacuation chambers and my own deduction by observation of life itself and the known world of mine.

Can you explain how you observe the dome on which your alleged meteors form.

Looking up at the night sky gives me the best clue.

Meteors are small fragments of rock or ice that enter Earth's atmosphere from space and burn up due to friction.

So we are taught, yes.

But Flat Earthers say that space is a lie, so where do all the meteors come from?

Some people do say that, however I see no major reason to conclude a lie.  Mythology usually isn't a lie; it's just fiction we use to (apparently) fill the void of ignorance. Space isn't a lie, it's just mythology/fiction.

But this contradicts the day-night model, because since the Sun is inside Earth's sky, it should be hot up there on the top of the sky because the Sun is located all the way up there.

Well, that heat could very well be involved in the "breakage" of the dome (perhaps).  Another possibility is that though there is much light, there isn't much heat in the upper strata (this is also measured and factual).  Air is a poor absorber of the sun's wavelengths.  Most of our heat comes from the matter of the earth (absorbed and re-radiated).

So if they can't be coming from space according to Flat Earthers, and I just debunked one possible explanation for them, then what are meteors?

Debunking is not an honorable pasttime nor any substitute for thorough objective study/research.

Through imagination, all things are possible.  There is always another possibility you haven't considered.

Personally, I don't know what they are or why they luminesce. They are pretty though!

I am doubtful of the idea that they are rocks from the sky (rocks come from the ground), and there isn't much evidence to support that perspective.

Mostly we find odd rocks that we suppose "don't belong" in the area and generally conclude iceage did it, volcanism did it, and/or space did it.

There is no satisfying answer for what the ice blocks that fall from the sky are, or where they come from in the presumptive/"standard" conception.  The dome doesn't seem so unreasonable, however as you rightly point out - we don't have any direct evidence of such a dome - unless of course those ice blocks DID fall from it

Personally, I don't know what they are or why they luminesce. They are pretty though!

I am doubtful of the idea that they are rocks from the sky (rocks come from the ground), and there isn't much evidence to support that perspective.

So you have no idea what they are but are convinced that they aren't from space because you are incredulous.

That isn't a very strong argument there. Dismissing all the evidence out of hand doesn't make that evidence go away.

"The possibilities are endless! They could be from literally anywhere! Except space, it can't possibly be from there" is a terrible argument.

I am doubtful of the idea that they are rocks from the sky (rocks come from the ground), and there isn't much evidence to support that perspective.

You may be doubtful, but there is plenty of evidence to support that they come from the sky - Why you just say off the cuff that there isn't supporting evidence is just plain lazy & disingenuous. Take these folks, for example:

The Desert Fireball Network
https://dfn.gfo.rocks/research.html

and

The Meteoritical Society
https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=53653

The Desert Fireball Network tracks meteors streaking across the Australian sky (and around the world) and then sends out search parties to find them after they hit. Scroll down to the METEORITES RECOVERED section. There you find the ones the network recovered and clicking on an individual one takes you over to the The Meteoritical Society DB where each is catalogued with all of the pertinent info - Including whether the recovered meteor was tracked via the sky or just found. This one here, for example, was tracked through the sky and recovered:

Name: Bunburra Rockhole
  This is an OFFICIAL meteorite name.
Abbreviation: There is no official abbreviation for this meteorite.
Observed fall: Yes
Year fell: 2007
Country: Australia
Mass:help 324 g
Bunburra Rockhole 31°21.0′S, 129°11.4′E

Nullarbor Region, South Australia, Australia

Fall: 21 July 2007 04:43:56 local time (UT + 9:30)

Achondrite (eucrite)

History: A bright fireball was recorded over southwestern Australia by observatories of the Desert Fireball Network. A fall position was pinpointed by triangulation, and a search was mounted. Fragments were recovered within 100 m of the predicted fall site.

Another possibility is that though there is much light, there isn't much heat in the upper strata (this is also measured and factual).  Air is a poor absorber of the sun's wavelengths.  Most of our heat comes from the matter of the earth (absorbed and re-radiated).

That is measured without a dome being present. This is for an alternative model that has a dome which changes a lot.

Debunking is not an honorable pasttime nor any substitute for thorough objective study/research.

"debunking" is a key part of science. If you come up with an idea, one of the first things you should try to do is debunk it and look for alternative.

I am doubtful of the idea that they are rocks from the sky (rocks come from the ground), and there isn't much evidence to support that perspective.

There is plenty for any rational person. Meteors aren't just something which happened a long time ago in the past.
We can observe them in the sky.
We can follow them in as they come to Earth and have a decent idea of where they land.
One even hit someone.

There is no satisfying answer for what the ice blocks that fall from the sky are, or where they come from in the presumptive/"standard" conception.  The dome doesn't seem so unreasonable, however as you rightly point out - we don't have any direct evidence of such a dome - unless of course those ice blocks DID fall from it

By presumptive/"standard" conception, do you mean a conception with Earth being flat, or the actual standard one where Earth is round and meteors are rocks from space?
If the latter, there is a quite simple, satisfying answer.
And they aren't ice.

Quote from: Timeisup on July 07, 2021, 12:51:57 AM

Please explain how the majority of meteors collected are either metallic or rock.

How do you know this?

Quote from: Timeisup

How many meteors that you describe have been observed and collected.

I don't know of any.

Quote from: Timeisup

How did you manage to observe and record the process you describe that you allege are responsible for meteors?

Just simple experiments with evacuation chambers and my own deduction by observation of life itself and the known world of mine.

Quote from: Timeisup

Can you explain how you observe the dome on which your alleged meteors form.

Looking up at the night sky gives me the best clue.

You have done experiments! give me a break. Go visit any large science museum and meteors will be displayed. The British Science museum has thousand on display. How many of your fictitious meteors have been observed or collected?

You have done experiments! give me a break. Go visit any large science museum and meteors will be displayed. The British Science museum has thousand on display. How many of your fictitious meteors have been observed or collected?

How do you know they are meteors?

Quote from: Timeisup on July 09, 2021, 02:24:31 AM

You have done experiments! give me a break. Go visit any large science museum and meteors will be displayed. The British Science museum has thousand on display. How many of your fictitious meteors have been observed or collected?

How do you know they are meteors?

How do you know they are not?
How do you know what a meteor looks like seeing how you have never seen one?

Ive seen them and I know what they look like.

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 09, 2021, 06:48:19 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 09, 2021, 02:24:31 AM

You have done experiments! give me a break. Go visit any large science museum and meteors will be displayed. The British Science museum has thousand on display. How many of your fictitious meteors have been observed or collected?

How do you know they are meteors?

How do you know they are not?
How do you know what a meteor looks like seeing how you have never seen one?

Ive seen them and I know what they look like.

How do you know you've seen them?
You could be looking at anything gathered on Earth and be told they're from space. How would you know?

Quote from: Timeisup on July 09, 2021, 09:03:27 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 09, 2021, 06:48:19 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 09, 2021, 02:24:31 AM

You have done experiments! give me a break. Go visit any large science museum and meteors will be displayed. The British Science museum has thousand on display. How many of your fictitious meteors have been observed or collected?

How do you know they are meteors?

How do you know they are not?
How do you know what a meteor looks like seeing how you have never seen one?

Ive seen them and I know what they look like.

How do you know you've seen them?
You could be looking at anything gathered on Earth and be told they're from space. How would you know?

Many are tracked through the sky and recovered from where they landed.

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2021, 01:19:27 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 09, 2021, 09:03:27 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 09, 2021, 06:48:19 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 09, 2021, 02:24:31 AM

You have done experiments! give me a break. Go visit any large science museum and meteors will be displayed. The British Science museum has thousand on display. How many of your fictitious meteors have been observed or collected?

How do you know they are meteors?

How do you know they are not?
How do you know what a meteor looks like seeing how you have never seen one?

Ive seen them and I know what they look like.

How do you know you've seen them?
You could be looking at anything gathered on Earth and be told they're from space. How would you know?

Many are tracked through the sky and recovered from where they landed.

That's what you're told, right?
Or are you going to say you know this for sure?

People clearly cant read the subject properly.

The premise of the question is that space DOES NOT exist. If you have a problem with this, why are you in the thread?

the subject is "What are meteors, IF space doesn't exist?"

Therefore answers must be based on the premise that space does not exist. The question is an exercise in thought experiments

But so many of you have one track minds that are unable to think outside the narrative you have been fed. You're all so dull

It doesn't matter if you believe/know space exists. That is not what the question is asking about

Quote from: Timeisup on July 09, 2021, 09:03:27 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 09, 2021, 06:48:19 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 09, 2021, 02:24:31 AM

You have done experiments! give me a break. Go visit any large science museum and meteors will be displayed. The British Science museum has thousand on display. How many of your fictitious meteors have been observed or collected?

How do you know they are meteors?

How do you know they are not?
How do you know what a meteor looks like seeing how you have never seen one?

Ive seen them and I know what they look like.

How do you know you've seen them?
You could be looking at anything gathered on Earth and be told they're from space. How would you know?

By the same token how do you know your rather sketchy account of ice  forming on the inside of the dome is correct.

Have you ever actually seen the Dome? Has anyone seen it?
Have you actually witnessed this ice forming on this Dome of yours?

Have you actually determined the nature of this substance to be ice? How did you do this? If so what were you methods.

It strikes me you are fond of rejecting all information that is based on verified science in favour of stuff you just imagine.

How do you consider your imaginings, magic ice, magic molecules to be real when in reality you have seen neither?

Quote from: Platonius21 on July 04, 2021, 11:19:24 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 04, 2021, 09:30:34 AM

Dislodged dome icicles.

What dislodged them and drew them to earth. Gravity??

Molecular breakdown by friction.

You conveniently did not answer the question about what drew them to earth. Is it gravity?

So if meteors are pieces of the dome that fall to the surface,  how do you explain meteor crater in Arizona or other similar meteor strike sites?

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2021, 01:19:27 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 09, 2021, 09:03:27 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 09, 2021, 06:48:19 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 09, 2021, 02:24:31 AM

You have done experiments! give me a break. Go visit any large science museum and meteors will be displayed. The British Science museum has thousand on display. How many of your fictitious meteors have been observed or collected?

How do you know they are meteors?

How do you know they are not?
How do you know what a meteor looks like seeing how you have never seen one?

Ive seen them and I know what they look like.

How do you know you've seen them?
You could be looking at anything gathered on Earth and be told they're from space. How would you know?

By the same token how do you know your rather sketchy account of ice  forming on the inside of the dome is correct.

Have you ever actually seen the Dome? Has anyone seen it?
Have you actually witnessed this ice forming on this Dome of yours?

Have you actually determined the nature of this substance to be ice? How did you do this? If so what were you methods.

It strikes me you are fond of rejecting all information that is based on verified science in favour of stuff you just imagine.

How do you consider your imaginings, magic ice, magic molecules to be real when in reality you have seen neither?

My theory based on experiments. I do not claim to have see icicles from a dome. I do not claim to see a dome....etc.
That's the difference.
You people claim you've seen meteors and know what they are. You don't know. You believe what you're told they supposedly are, if you're honest.

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 06, 2021, 10:31:50 PM

Quote from: Platonius21 on July 04, 2021, 11:19:24 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 04, 2021, 09:30:34 AM

Dislodged dome icicles.

What dislodged them and drew them to earth. Gravity??

Molecular breakdown by friction.

You conveniently did not answer the question about what drew them to earth. Is it gravity?

Friction and push on push.

As long as there's something above to lever off of, you'll always get a push on push or push on resistance to push which is basically the same thing.

As long as a mass is greater than the resistance directly below it, it will push through it all the way to a point where it equals the resistance and basically becomes buoyant, as we know it.