Is it even possible for everyday person to get definitive evidence...

Quote from: JackBlack on December 25, 2021, 02:25:43 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on December 25, 2021, 12:57:56 AM

To remind everyone it’s all to do with someone without recourse to expert help or assistance

Still carrying on with the same pathetic strawman.

All you are doing is arguing with yourself.

Here is a reminder of the statement you chose to defend:

Quote from: Brawndo71 on July 02, 2021, 08:25:23 AM

The only thing you could possibly do to understand the shape of the Earth is to study from the current literature on what the subject matter experts say the Earth is.
What, a globe? You don't say.

This is saying that the only way to determine the shape of Earth is just accepting what an expert on the shape of Earth says it is.
It is not simply saying you need the help of an expert (and even that would be BS). It is saying you need to just accept what an "expert" says it is.
It is also not simply saying you need to perform an experiment that an expert has already done.
And it isn't saying any expert. Instead it is specifically a subject matter expert, that is an expert on the shape of Earth.

This has been disproven by a proof by contradiction you are yet to even attempt to refute. Here that is again:
1 - The only way to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth is by obtaining it from an expert on the shape of Earth.
2 - Thus without an expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth.
3 - You must have knowledge on the shape of Earth to be an expert on the shape of Earth.
4 - By 2 and 3, without an existing expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible for new people to become experts on the shape of Earth.
5 - At some point in the past there was no expert on the shape of Earth.
6 - By 4 and 5, this means it is impossible for anyone to become an expert on the shape of Earth.
7 - Thus there can be no experts on the shape of Earth.
8 - Thus no one can know the shape of Earth.
9 - People know the shape of Earth.
10 - 8 and 9 are direct contradictions and thus the assumption (1) MUST be wrong.

Figured out what is wrong with it yet or ready to admit you are wrong and that you don't just need to blindly accept what some cult leader says?
(And before you complain, I say cult leader, because that is what you are trying to make it into, a cult, where you have "experts", which are really just cult leaders, as the only way to obtain the "knowledge" these cult leaders have is by accepting whatever they say. That isn't science with experts, that is a cult with cult leaders.)

It has also been disproven by simple experiments everyday people can do to determine the shape of Earth, without needing to just accept what a cult leader says it is.
Sure, these experiments don't mean your entirely dishonest standard which no one other than you is arguing for, but that doesn't matter one bit as that standard has no bearing on if an everyday person can determine the shape of Earth through experimentation without needing to just accept what a cult leader says it is.

And you are yet to offer anything of any substance to try to justify that entirely insane claim you have chosen to defend.

[pointless deflection]

So I take it that means you give up? You can't address the argument that proves the statement you chose to defend is wrong?
You can't admit to being wrong?

Quote from: Timeisup on December 25, 2021, 02:13:19 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on December 25, 2021, 02:25:43 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on December 25, 2021, 12:57:56 AM

To remind everyone it’s all to do with someone without recourse to expert help or assistance

Still carrying on with the same pathetic strawman.

All you are doing is arguing with yourself.

Here is a reminder of the statement you chose to defend:

Quote from: Brawndo71 on July 02, 2021, 08:25:23 AM

The only thing you could possibly do to understand the shape of the Earth is to study from the current literature on what the subject matter experts say the Earth is.
What, a globe? You don't say.

This is saying that the only way to determine the shape of Earth is just accepting what an expert on the shape of Earth says it is.
It is not simply saying you need the help of an expert (and even that would be BS). It is saying you need to just accept what an "expert" says it is.
It is also not simply saying you need to perform an experiment that an expert has already done.
And it isn't saying any expert. Instead it is specifically a subject matter expert, that is an expert on the shape of Earth.

This has been disproven by a proof by contradiction you are yet to even attempt to refute. Here that is again:
1 - The only way to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth is by obtaining it from an expert on the shape of Earth.
2 - Thus without an expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth.
3 - You must have knowledge on the shape of Earth to be an expert on the shape of Earth.
4 - By 2 and 3, without an existing expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible for new people to become experts on the shape of Earth.
5 - At some point in the past there was no expert on the shape of Earth.
6 - By 4 and 5, this means it is impossible for anyone to become an expert on the shape of Earth.
7 - Thus there can be no experts on the shape of Earth.
8 - Thus no one can know the shape of Earth.
9 - People know the shape of Earth.
10 - 8 and 9 are direct contradictions and thus the assumption (1) MUST be wrong.

Figured out what is wrong with it yet or ready to admit you are wrong and that you don't just need to blindly accept what some cult leader says?
(And before you complain, I say cult leader, because that is what you are trying to make it into, a cult, where you have "experts", which are really just cult leaders, as the only way to obtain the "knowledge" these cult leaders have is by accepting whatever they say. That isn't science with experts, that is a cult with cult leaders.)

It has also been disproven by simple experiments everyday people can do to determine the shape of Earth, without needing to just accept what a cult leader says it is.
Sure, these experiments don't mean your entirely dishonest standard which no one other than you is arguing for, but that doesn't matter one bit as that standard has no bearing on if an everyday person can determine the shape of Earth through experimentation without needing to just accept what a cult leader says it is.

And you are yet to offer anything of any substance to try to justify that entirely insane claim you have chosen to defend.

[pointless deflection]

So I take it that means you give up? You can't address the argument that proves the statement you chose to defend is wrong?
You can't admit to being wrong?

So Mr infinity brain all you need to do for a reveal your experiment to the world.

Of course this is something you will never do as you were lying when you claimed to have developed one.

You will never be able to come up with the definitive experiment that proves the earth is a globe, why not just admit it?

In the real world it’s a lost cause as everyone knows the world is a globe. It’s only on this forum where you will find the ill-educated who imagine they have discovered the real truth.

What have got to say about that mr Infinity!

Quote from: JackBlack on December 25, 2021, 05:57:27 PM

Quote from: Timeisup on December 25, 2021, 02:13:19 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on December 25, 2021, 02:25:43 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on December 25, 2021, 12:57:56 AM

To remind everyone it’s all to do with someone without recourse to expert help or assistance

Still carrying on with the same pathetic strawman.

All you are doing is arguing with yourself.

Here is a reminder of the statement you chose to defend:

Quote from: Brawndo71 on July 02, 2021, 08:25:23 AM

The only thing you could possibly do to understand the shape of the Earth is to study from the current literature on what the subject matter experts say the Earth is.
What, a globe? You don't say.

This is saying that the only way to determine the shape of Earth is just accepting what an expert on the shape of Earth says it is.
It is not simply saying you need the help of an expert (and even that would be BS). It is saying you need to just accept what an "expert" says it is.
It is also not simply saying you need to perform an experiment that an expert has already done.
And it isn't saying any expert. Instead it is specifically a subject matter expert, that is an expert on the shape of Earth.

This has been disproven by a proof by contradiction you are yet to even attempt to refute. Here that is again:
1 - The only way to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth is by obtaining it from an expert on the shape of Earth.
2 - Thus without an expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth.
3 - You must have knowledge on the shape of Earth to be an expert on the shape of Earth.
4 - By 2 and 3, without an existing expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible for new people to become experts on the shape of Earth.
5 - At some point in the past there was no expert on the shape of Earth.
6 - By 4 and 5, this means it is impossible for anyone to become an expert on the shape of Earth.
7 - Thus there can be no experts on the shape of Earth.
8 - Thus no one can know the shape of Earth.
9 - People know the shape of Earth.
10 - 8 and 9 are direct contradictions and thus the assumption (1) MUST be wrong.

Figured out what is wrong with it yet or ready to admit you are wrong and that you don't just need to blindly accept what some cult leader says?
(And before you complain, I say cult leader, because that is what you are trying to make it into, a cult, where you have "experts", which are really just cult leaders, as the only way to obtain the "knowledge" these cult leaders have is by accepting whatever they say. That isn't science with experts, that is a cult with cult leaders.)

It has also been disproven by simple experiments everyday people can do to determine the shape of Earth, without needing to just accept what a cult leader says it is.
Sure, these experiments don't mean your entirely dishonest standard which no one other than you is arguing for, but that doesn't matter one bit as that standard has no bearing on if an everyday person can determine the shape of Earth through experimentation without needing to just accept what a cult leader says it is.

And you are yet to offer anything of any substance to try to justify that entirely insane claim you have chosen to defend.

[pointless deflection]

So I take it that means you give up? You can't address the argument that proves the statement you chose to defend is wrong?
You can't admit to being wrong?

So Mr infinity brain all you need to do for a reveal your experiment to the world.

Of course this is something you will never do as you were lying when you claimed to have developed one.

You will never be able to come up with the definitive experiment that proves the earth is a globe, why not just admit it?

In the real world it’s a lost cause as everyone knows the world is a globe. It’s only on this forum where you will find the ill-educated who imagine they have discovered the real truth.

What have got to say about that mr Infinity!

Interesting tactics.  Just like FE people. 
1.  Make a claim that's obviously false. 
2.  Never just admit the claim was wrong.
3.  Scream and pitch a hissy fit.
4.  Strawman people who point out the claim is wrong. 
5.  Double/triple/quadruple down
7.  Repeat step 3.
8.  Constantly repeat step 4
9.  Repeat step 3.

Just admit the claim was wrong, all you have to do, remember you supported and reiterated the claim long before you had your complete meltdown over Jack. 
But you won't.  Too much false pride.  So much that you can't even see that you make yourself look worse, not better, with the constant obsession with Jack.  You must have really had your feelings hurt, huh Timmy.  Before you say something, yes I enjoy pointing and laughing at the town fool, and yes that's you.

Quote from: Timeisup on December 27, 2021, 01:36:51 AM

Quote from: JackBlack on December 25, 2021, 05:57:27 PM

Quote from: Timeisup on December 25, 2021, 02:13:19 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on December 25, 2021, 02:25:43 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on December 25, 2021, 12:57:56 AM

To remind everyone it’s all to do with someone without recourse to expert help or assistance

Still carrying on with the same pathetic strawman.

All you are doing is arguing with yourself.

Here is a reminder of the statement you chose to defend:

Quote from: Brawndo71 on July 02, 2021, 08:25:23 AM

The only thing you could possibly do to understand the shape of the Earth is to study from the current literature on what the subject matter experts say the Earth is.
What, a globe? You don't say.

This is saying that the only way to determine the shape of Earth is just accepting what an expert on the shape of Earth says it is.
It is not simply saying you need the help of an expert (and even that would be BS). It is saying you need to just accept what an "expert" says it is.
It is also not simply saying you need to perform an experiment that an expert has already done.
And it isn't saying any expert. Instead it is specifically a subject matter expert, that is an expert on the shape of Earth.

This has been disproven by a proof by contradiction you are yet to even attempt to refute. Here that is again:
1 - The only way to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth is by obtaining it from an expert on the shape of Earth.
2 - Thus without an expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth.
3 - You must have knowledge on the shape of Earth to be an expert on the shape of Earth.
4 - By 2 and 3, without an existing expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible for new people to become experts on the shape of Earth.
5 - At some point in the past there was no expert on the shape of Earth.
6 - By 4 and 5, this means it is impossible for anyone to become an expert on the shape of Earth.
7 - Thus there can be no experts on the shape of Earth.
8 - Thus no one can know the shape of Earth.
9 - People know the shape of Earth.
10 - 8 and 9 are direct contradictions and thus the assumption (1) MUST be wrong.

Figured out what is wrong with it yet or ready to admit you are wrong and that you don't just need to blindly accept what some cult leader says?
(And before you complain, I say cult leader, because that is what you are trying to make it into, a cult, where you have "experts", which are really just cult leaders, as the only way to obtain the "knowledge" these cult leaders have is by accepting whatever they say. That isn't science with experts, that is a cult with cult leaders.)

It has also been disproven by simple experiments everyday people can do to determine the shape of Earth, without needing to just accept what a cult leader says it is.
Sure, these experiments don't mean your entirely dishonest standard which no one other than you is arguing for, but that doesn't matter one bit as that standard has no bearing on if an everyday person can determine the shape of Earth through experimentation without needing to just accept what a cult leader says it is.

And you are yet to offer anything of any substance to try to justify that entirely insane claim you have chosen to defend.

[pointless deflection]

So I take it that means you give up? You can't address the argument that proves the statement you chose to defend is wrong?
You can't admit to being wrong?

So Mr infinity brain all you need to do for a reveal your experiment to the world.

Of course this is something you will never do as you were lying when you claimed to have developed one.

You will never be able to come up with the definitive experiment that proves the earth is a globe, why not just admit it?

In the real world it’s a lost cause as everyone knows the world is a globe. It’s only on this forum where you will find the ill-educated who imagine they have discovered the real truth.

What have got to say about that mr Infinity!

Interesting tactics.  Just like FE people. 
1.  Make a claim that's obviously false. 
2.  Never just admit the claim was wrong.
3.  Scream and pitch a hissy fit.
4.  Strawman people who point out the claim is wrong. 
5.  Double/triple/quadruple down
7.  Repeat step 3.
8.  Constantly repeat step 4
9.  Repeat step 3.

Just admit the claim was wrong, all you have to do, remember you supported and reiterated the claim long before you had your complete meltdown over Jack. 
But you won't.  Too much false pride.  So much that you can't even see that you make yourself look worse, not better, with the constant obsession with Jack.  You must have really had your feelings hurt, huh Timmy.  Before you say something, yes I enjoy pointing and laughing at the town fool, and yes that's you.

What are you on?
I’ve asked you people on numerous occasions to prove me wrong.
Failure all around.
You must imagine that shouting the loudest and repeating the same thing over and over again somehow makes you right. Wrong.
Not once have you bunch offered a definitive experiment to prove me wrong.
Ergo despite your caterwauling you are most definitely wrong.

You still have the opportunity to prove me wrong but  I doubt you will ever do that. Even mr infinity has given up. Possibly he’s out with his torch watching as him beam nears what he thinks is infinity. In reality it’s his neighbour’s fence !

What are you on?
I’ve asked you people on numerous occasions to prove me wrong.
Failure all around.
You must imagine that shouting the loudest and repeating the same thing over and over again somehow makes you right. Wrong.
Not once have you bunch offered a definitive experiment to prove me wrong.
Ergo despite your caterwauling you are most definitely wrong.

You still have the opportunity to prove me wrong but  I doubt you will ever do that. Even mr infinity has given up. Possibly he’s out with his torch watching as him beam nears what he thinks is infinity. In reality it’s his neighbour’s fence !

I have no obligation to prove anything to you.   
You have a serious mental health problem.   


You need to get your shit together.

There's something wrong with you.It's a medical condition.

You need professional help.


PM me. 

It's pretty simple really. Example, one of the first tip-offs for the Ancients believing the earth is spherical was seeing ships disappearing over the horizon hull first. You wouldn't need an expert to explain, mentor, tutor you to buy into the concept.
You would be like, "Huh, ships must be going down a hill, so to speak as I see on land when other things disappear over the backside of a hill. That's weird. And I see ships doing this all the time, everywhere I go. So there must be hills all over the oceans...Wait a minute, I've been on the ocean, there aren't hills everywhere...In every direction I look, ships are disappearing down a hill. I must be on top of a ball of some sort...everything curves down and away from me no matter where I am..." No expert required.

So Mr infinity brain all you need to do for a reveal your experiment to the world.

I already have.
You just chose to ignore it, and continue to strawman my position to pretend there are a bunch of requirements which are not required to refute the original claim.

Again, this does not need to be an entirely new experiment. It can be an existing one. So unless you are claiming there is no experiment that can determine the shape of Earth, these experiments do exist and the claim is wrong.

Now again, can you deal with the argument which proves beyond any doubt that the original claim is wrong:
1 - The only way to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth is by obtaining it from an expert on the shape of Earth.
2 - Thus without an expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth.
3 - You must have knowledge on the shape of Earth to be an expert on the shape of Earth.
4 - By 2 and 3, without an existing expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible for new people to become experts on the shape of Earth.
5 - At some point in the past there was no expert on the shape of Earth.
6 - By 4 and 5, this means it is impossible for anyone to become an expert on the shape of Earth.
7 - Thus there can be no experts on the shape of Earth.
8 - Thus no one can know the shape of Earth.
9 - People know the shape of Earth.
10 - 8 and 9 are direct contradictions and thus the assumption (1) MUST be wrong.

I’ve asked you people on numerous occasions to prove me wrong.

And we have, repeatedly.
You just ignore it and pretend it never happened.

Not once have you bunch offered a definitive experiment to prove me wrong.

As I have explained before, we have. But because it so easily proved you wrong, you just made up a bunch of ridiculous requirements so you could pretend these experiments don't prove you wrong.
And as I have explained before, WE DON'T NEED TO!
Providing experiments are not the only way to prove you are wrong.
Unless you want to claim there are no experts on the shape of Earth and no one knows what the shape of Earth is, the logical argument you continually avoid proves you are wrong beyond any doubt.

Ergo, despite your continued strawmanning and projection, you are most definitely wrong.

Quote from: Timeisup on December 27, 2021, 10:43:50 AM

What are you on?
I’ve asked you people on numerous occasions to prove me wrong.
Failure all around.
You must imagine that shouting the loudest and repeating the same thing over and over again somehow makes you right. Wrong.
Not once have you bunch offered a definitive experiment to prove me wrong.
Ergo despite your caterwauling you are most definitely wrong.

You still have the opportunity to prove me wrong but  I doubt you will ever do that. Even mr infinity has given up. Possibly he’s out with his torch watching as him beam nears what he thinks is infinity. In reality it’s his neighbour’s fence !

I have no obligation to prove anything to you.   
You have a serious mental health problem.   


You need to get your shit together.

There's something wrong with you.It's a medical condition.

You need professional help.


PM me.

Ho ho ho. You are a total hoot! With all the whack jobs around here I pale into insignificance.
Let remember this is a flat earth believers forum. Whack jobs a plenty.

Quote from: Timeisup on December 27, 2021, 01:36:51 AM

So Mr infinity brain all you need to do for a reveal your experiment to the world.

I already have.
You just chose to ignore it, and continue to strawman my position to pretend there are a bunch of requirements which are not required to refute the original claim.

Again, this does not need to be an entirely new experiment. It can be an existing one. So unless you are claiming there is no experiment that can determine the shape of Earth, these experiments do exist and the claim is wrong.

Now again, can you deal with the argument which proves beyond any doubt that the original claim is wrong:
1 - The only way to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth is by obtaining it from an expert on the shape of Earth.
2 - Thus without an expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth.
3 - You must have knowledge on the shape of Earth to be an expert on the shape of Earth.
4 - By 2 and 3, without an existing expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible for new people to become experts on the shape of Earth.
5 - At some point in the past there was no expert on the shape of Earth.
6 - By 4 and 5, this means it is impossible for anyone to become an expert on the shape of Earth.
7 - Thus there can be no experts on the shape of Earth.
8 - Thus no one can know the shape of Earth.
9 - People know the shape of Earth.
10 - 8 and 9 are direct contradictions and thus the assumption (1) MUST be wrong.

Quote from: Timeisup on December 27, 2021, 10:43:50 AM

I’ve asked you people on numerous occasions to prove me wrong.

And we have, repeatedly.
You just ignore it and pretend it never happened.

Quote from: Timeisup on December 27, 2021, 10:43:50 AM

Not once have you bunch offered a definitive experiment to prove me wrong.

As I have explained before, we have. But because it so easily proved you wrong, you just made up a bunch of ridiculous requirements so you could pretend these experiments don't prove you wrong.
And as I have explained before, WE DON'T NEED TO!
Providing experiments are not the only way to prove you are wrong.
Unless you want to claim there are no experts on the shape of Earth and no one knows what the shape of Earth is, the logical argument you continually avoid proves you are wrong beyond any doubt.

Ergo, despite your continued strawmanning and projection, you are most definitely wrong.

Look here mr infinity. Let’s remember you are the one who claims to know and understand infinity. How did you manage that? Was it the same way you deduced the speed of light? Single handed with just a flashlight! You behave and talk as though you single handed wrote the book of physics, yet you fail time and time again to come up with a simple experiment to prove the earth is a globe.
You loose mr infinity.

Who taught the first expert?

I think, until Tim can figure out how to either admit he's hopelessly wrong and needs to stop this OR until he finally just goes away, it makes sense to continue sharing the very clearly enumerated logical argument JB put together. It illustrates the issue with Tim's logic perfectly, and it obviously is something he can't figure a way to get around without trying to move to a new set of goalposts. So go ahead, Tim, and tell us all which part of this logical argument is incorrect.

1 - The only way to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth is by obtaining it from an expert on the shape of Earth.
2 - Thus without an expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth.
3 - You must have knowledge on the shape of Earth to be an expert on the shape of Earth.
4 - By 2 and 3, without an existing expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible for new people to become experts on the shape of Earth.
5 - At some point in the past there was no expert on the shape of Earth.
6 - By 4 and 5, this means it is impossible for anyone to become an expert on the shape of Earth.
7 - Thus there can be no experts on the shape of Earth.
8 - Thus no one can know the shape of Earth.
9 - People know the shape of Earth.
10 - 8 and 9 are direct contradictions and thus the assumption (1) MUST be wrong.

Who taught the first expert?

I think, until Tim can figure out how to either admit he's hopelessly wrong and needs to stop this OR until he finally just goes away, it makes sense to continue sharing the very clearly enumerated logical argument JB put together. It illustrates the issue with Tim's logic perfectly, and it obviously is something he can't figure a way to get around without trying to move to a new set of goalposts. So go ahead, Tim, and tell us all which part of this logical argument is incorrect.

1 - The only way to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth is by obtaining it from an expert on the shape of Earth.
2 - Thus without an expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth.
3 - You must have knowledge on the shape of Earth to be an expert on the shape of Earth.
4 - By 2 and 3, without an existing expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible for new people to become experts on the shape of Earth.
5 - At some point in the past there was no expert on the shape of Earth.
6 - By 4 and 5, this means it is impossible for anyone to become an expert on the shape of Earth.
7 - Thus there can be no experts on the shape of Earth.
8 - Thus no one can know the shape of Earth.
9 - People know the shape of Earth.
10 - 8 and 9 are direct contradictions and thus the assumption (1) MUST be wrong.

Post your experiment  to prove me wrong.

Just repeating yourself proves less than  half of nothing.

Ask mr infinity to explain that to you.

14 pages later not one person has provided an experiment to prove me wrong! What can add you do?

Have they had ample opportunity?

Yes

Have they come up with anything?

No

Draw your own conclusions.

Post your experiment  to prove me wrong.

Just repeating yourself proves less than  half of nothing.

Ask mr infinity to explain that to you.

I don't get it. Post an experiment of what? What does any experiment have to do with "knowledge can only begotten from experts"?

No one needs to post an experiment to show your logical fallacy Tim. It's plainly obvious, and was laid out in logical terms, and you not only can't refute it, but you can't admit to yourself or anyone else that you are wrong. It's sad, really, but does provide for some nice entertainment while you continue to try and shift the burden of proof almost as often as trying to shift where the goalposts are located.

Which one of these steps is wrong, Tim? Come on, you can do it!

1 - The only way to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth is by obtaining it from an expert on the shape of Earth.
2 - Thus without an expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth.
3 - You must have knowledge on the shape of Earth to be an expert on the shape of Earth.
4 - By 2 and 3, without an existing expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible for new people to become experts on the shape of Earth.
5 - At some point in the past there was no expert on the shape of Earth.
6 - By 4 and 5, this means it is impossible for anyone to become an expert on the shape of Earth.
7 - Thus there can be no experts on the shape of Earth.
8 - Thus no one can know the shape of Earth.
9 - People know the shape of Earth.
10 - 8 and 9 are direct contradictions and thus the assumption (1) MUST be wrong.

Let remember this is a flat earth believers forum. Whack jobs a plenty.

And you are one of the biggest whack jobs on this forum.

Look here mr infinity. Let’s remember you are the one who claims to know and understand infinity.

You sure do love just running away from the topic.
How about you stop deflecting and deal with the arguments which clearly show you are wrong?

You behave and talk as though you single handed wrote the book of physics

No, I don't.
That is yet another lie/strawman of yours so you can pretend to be justified in your irrational attack.
But it is just a pathetic attempt at covering up your complete inability to defend the claim you chose to defend.

you fail time and time again to come up with a simple experiment to prove the earth is a globe.

You ignoring it doesn't mean I fail.
Plenty have been provided.
You know these experiments exist.
And the burden of proof is not on me.

I didn't make the claim that the only way to learn the shape of Earth is by just accepting what someone says it is.
I didn't choose to defend that claim either.
If you want to defend rather than admit you were wrong, then that means you need to prove no such experiment exists.
That means you need to prove that there is no experiment which can determine the shape of Earth.

Do you really want to claim that? That there is no experiment to determine the shape of Earth and that the only possibly way to know the shape is to just accept what some cult leader says it is?
To reduce the shape of Earth from a fairly well established fact, based upon loads of evidence, down to nothing more than a religious belief?

And lets not forget the simple argument that proves beyond doubt that you are wrong which you are yet to even attempt to address. Here it is again:
1 - The only way to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth is by obtaining it from an expert on the shape of Earth.
2 - Thus without an expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth.
3 - You must have knowledge on the shape of Earth to be an expert on the shape of Earth.
4 - By 2 and 3, without an existing expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible for new people to become experts on the shape of Earth.
5 - At some point in the past there was no expert on the shape of Earth.
6 - By 4 and 5, this means it is impossible for anyone to become an expert on the shape of Earth.
7 - Thus there can be no experts on the shape of Earth.
8 - Thus no one can know the shape of Earth.
9 - People know the shape of Earth.
10 - 8 and 9 are direct contradictions and thus the assumption (1) MUST be wrong.

Can you point out any part of that which is wrong, with a justification of why you think it is wrong and what it should be?
If you can't, you have no chance of being correct.

Just repeating yourself proves less than  half of nothing.

So stop repeating yourself and actually deal with the argument and then claim that there is no experiment to determine the shape of Earth.

Hummmm.
1 - The only way to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth is by obtaining it from an expert on the shape of Earth. [false]
2 - Thus without an expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth. [false]
3 - You must have knowledge on the shape of Earth to be an expert on the shape of Earth. [true]
4 - By 2 and 3, without an existing expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible for new people to become experts on the shape of Earth. [false]
5 - At some point in the past there was no expert on the shape of Earth. [true]
6 - By 4 and 5, this means it is impossible for anyone to become an expert on the shape of Earth. [false]
7 - Thus there can be no experts on the shape of Earth. [false]
8 - Thus no one can know the shape of Earth.[false]
9 - People know the shape of Earth.[true]
10 - 8 and 9 are direct contradictions and thus the assumption (1) MUST be wrong.[true]
Expert is improperly used, you need not to be an expert to know the shape of the earth.
Correct me if you will.
 

Hummmm.
1 - The only way to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth is by obtaining it from an expert on the shape of Earth. [false]
2 - Thus without an expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth. [false]
3 - You must have knowledge on the shape of Earth to be an expert on the shape of Earth. [true]
4 - By 2 and 3, without an existing expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible for new people to become experts on the shape of Earth. [false]
5 - At some point in the past there was no expert on the shape of Earth. [true]
6 - By 4 and 5, this means it is impossible for anyone to become an expert on the shape of Earth. [false]
7 - Thus there can be no experts on the shape of Earth. [false]
8 - Thus no one can know the shape of Earth.[false]
9 - People know the shape of Earth.[true]
10 - 8 and 9 are direct contradictions and thus the assumption (1) MUST be wrong.[true]
Expert is improperly used, you need not to be an expert to know the shape of the earth.
Correct me if you will.

This is a proof by contradiction.
The entire point of it is to show that the first premise is false.
The point is to show you do not need to be an expert to determine the shape of Earth, nor do you need to just accept what an expert says it is.

Hummmm.
1 - The only way to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth is by obtaining it from an expert on the shape of Earth. [false]
2 - Thus without an expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth. [false]
3 - You must have knowledge on the shape of Earth to be an expert on the shape of Earth. [true]
4 - By 2 and 3, without an existing expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible for new people to become experts on the shape of Earth. [false]
5 - At some point in the past there was no expert on the shape of Earth. [true]
6 - By 4 and 5, this means it is impossible for anyone to become an expert on the shape of Earth. [false]
7 - Thus there can be no experts on the shape of Earth. [false]
8 - Thus no one can know the shape of Earth.[false]
9 - People know the shape of Earth.[true]
10 - 8 and 9 are direct contradictions and thus the assumption (1) MUST be wrong.[true]
Expert is improperly used, you need not to be an expert to know the shape of the earth.
Correct me if you will.

How would you go about confirming the shape of the earth without recourse to  previous expert knowledge or the use of expert systems.

Please explain as no one has yet provided an answer, so please feel free.

It’s all very well saying FALSE without offering any evidence. Let’s see if you can do any better than the other bunch of fools who have so far failed miserably. To date all they have offered is home spun bollocks logic.

Over to you…. Though I don't think I’ll hold my breath.

Quote from: MouseWalker on December 27, 2021, 08:55:16 PM

Hummmm.
1 - The only way to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth is by obtaining it from an expert on the shape of Earth. [false]
2 - Thus without an expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth. [false]
3 - You must have knowledge on the shape of Earth to be an expert on the shape of Earth. [true]
4 - By 2 and 3, without an existing expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible for new people to become experts on the shape of Earth. [false]
5 - At some point in the past there was no expert on the shape of Earth. [true]
6 - By 4 and 5, this means it is impossible for anyone to become an expert on the shape of Earth. [false]
7 - Thus there can be no experts on the shape of Earth. [false]
8 - Thus no one can know the shape of Earth.[false]
9 - People know the shape of Earth.[true]
10 - 8 and 9 are direct contradictions and thus the assumption (1) MUST be wrong.[true]
Expert is improperly used, you need not to be an expert to know the shape of the earth.
Correct me if you will.

This is a proof by contradiction.
The entire point of it is to show that the first premise is false.
The point is to show you do not need to be an expert to determine the shape of Earth, nor do you need to just accept what an expert says it is.

Where did you get your knowledge on infinity from Jack or how did you come by a figure for the speed of light? Or any of the other facts you like to spout.

In reality, in the real world you would know next to nothing without expert help. Just admit it Jack.

This pretending that no one needs experts and the knowledge they provide is total bollocks.

How would you go about confirming the shape of the earth without recourse to  previous expert knowledge or the use of expert systems.

Again with the strawman.
Again, the claim you chose to defend was that the only way was just listening to what an expert says it is.
It was not simply that you must use expert knowledge.

Where did you get your knowledge on infinity

Stop deflecting.

Address the argument, explaining exactly what point you think is wrong with it and why. Here it is again:
1 - The only way to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth is by obtaining it from an expert on the shape of Earth.
2 - Thus without an expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible to obtain knowledge on the shape of Earth.
3 - You must have knowledge on the shape of Earth to be an expert on the shape of Earth.
4 - By 2 and 3, without an existing expert on the shape of Earth, it is impossible for new people to become experts on the shape of Earth.
5 - At some point in the past there was no expert on the shape of Earth.
6 - By 4 and 5, this means it is impossible for anyone to become an expert on the shape of Earth.
7 - Thus there can be no experts on the shape of Earth.
8 - Thus no one can know the shape of Earth.
9 - People know the shape of Earth.
10 - 8 and 9 are direct contradictions and thus the assumption (1) MUST be wrong.

Until you can show what is wrong with that argument, it shows beyond any doubt that you are wrong.

If you want me to provide an experiment, then make a claim that there is no experiment which shows that Earth is round.
If you are not willing to claim that then you show that you know there are experiments and you repeatedly asking is just dishonest BS to avoid admitting you were wrong.

Timmy is stuck in angry strawman mode.  He might be broken, can we still get our money back?  I don't want store credit.

Timmy is stuck in angry strawman mode.  He might be broken, can we still get our money back?  I don't want store credit.

Aside from your knee jerk predictable sniping from the side line how about you answer the question that you and the rest of the resident fools avoid at all costs.

Why don’t you put up or shut up? Or is that just too hard for you?

How about you state how You without recourse to any kind of expert knowledge or assistance  devise an experiment to prove the shape of the earth beyond doubt.
Fat chance!

After 14 pages no one has. Why do you think that? Could it be because not one of you has a clue?

What a bunch of self deluded loosers!

How about you state how You without recourse to any kind of expert knowledge or assistance  devise an experiment to prove the shape of the earth beyond doubt.
Fat chance!

After 14 pages no one has. Why do you think that? Could it be because not one of you has a clue?

What a bunch of self deluded loosers!

Well while I can't personally prove the earth is round, I can design and have conducted a personal experiment numerous times that proves the earth is not flat! Even you could do it if they will unlock the doors and let you out.  Here it is:

Go to the seashore on a clear, quiet day. Look out over the water and see the well-defined horizon just a few miles away.  The fact that such a nearby well-defined horizon exists at all is proof the earth is not flat.

timmimieiseies.
they've posted your circular logic.
you've yet to come up with a justification for it...
sheeesh


let me help:

 - "to become an expert, you need 10,000hrs."

so the first novice who studied "how to circles" for 10,000hrs will eventually become an expert and figure out that the ball is the only reasonable shape for the earth.

there
problem solved?

you win.

can we move on?

Quote from: Timeisup on December 28, 2021, 05:07:07 AM

How about you state how You without recourse to any kind of expert knowledge or assistance  devise an experiment to prove the shape of the earth beyond doubt.
Fat chance!

After 14 pages no one has. Why do you think that? Could it be because not one of you has a clue?

What a bunch of self deluded loosers!

Well while I can't personally prove the earth is round, I can design and have conducted a personal experiment numerous times that proves the earth is not flat! Even you could do it if they will unlock the doors and let you out.  Here it is:

Go to the seashore on a clear, quiet day. Look out over the water and see the well-defined horizon just a few miles away.  The fact that such a nearby well-defined horizon exists at all is proof the earth is not flat.

As you can read from the many posts here, that does not cut the mustard for many people. I think the word that was used was definitive proof. Im not sure if ships going over the horizon on its own would qualify. Plus from a more practice reason relying on an experiment that just uses our senses is not that reliable or repeatable in a way that would produce results free from what is after all subjective opinion.

timmimieiseies.
they've posted your circular logic.
you've yet to come up with a justification for it...
sheeesh


let me help:

 - "to become an expert, you need 10,000hrs."

so the first novice who studied "how to circles" for 10,000hrs will eventually become an expert and figure out that the ball is the only reasonable shape for the earth.

there
problem solved?

you win.

can we move on?

If you like.

Quote from: Mikey T. on December 28, 2021, 03:40:15 AM

Timmy is stuck in angry strawman mode.  He might be broken, can we still get our money back?  I don't want store credit.

Aside from your knee jerk predictable sniping from the side line how about you answer the question that you and the rest of the resident fools avoid at all costs.

Why don’t you put up or shut up? Or is that just too hard for you?

How about you state how You without recourse to any kind of expert knowledge or assistance  devise an experiment to prove the shape of the earth beyond doubt.
Fat chance!

After 14 pages no one has. Why do you think that? Could it be because not one of you has a clue?

What a bunch of self deluded loosers!

Please, you childish prick, show me where I said you never can use an expert to gain knowledge or setup an experiment?  I have given you examples of experiments you could do to determine the shape of the Earth without an expert breathing down your neck.  But you ignored them.  Also, that's not the issue, you supported a claim, reiterated that claim, and now want to act like a child and say your demands must be met before you will discuss how wrong you were.  You ignore and want to play dumb games slinging names etc.  Until you can discuss the actual issue we are all bringing up, you are just the latest dancing fool for my enjoyment.  No more than the village idiot putting on a show. 

Quote from: Timeisup on December 28, 2021, 05:07:07 AM

Quote from: Mikey T. on December 28, 2021, 03:40:15 AM

Timmy is stuck in angry strawman mode.  He might be broken, can we still get our money back?  I don't want store credit.

Aside from your knee jerk predictable sniping from the side line how about you answer the question that you and the rest of the resident fools avoid at all costs.

Why don’t you put up or shut up? Or is that just too hard for you?

How about you state how You without recourse to any kind of expert knowledge or assistance  devise an experiment to prove the shape of the earth beyond doubt.
Fat chance!

After 14 pages no one has. Why do you think that? Could it be because not one of you has a clue?

What a bunch of self deluded loosers!

Please, you childish prick, show me where I said you never can use an expert to gain knowledge or setup an experiment?  I have given you examples of experiments you could do to determine the shape of the Earth without an expert breathing down your neck.  But you ignored them.  Also, that's not the issue, you supported a claim, reiterated that claim, and now want to act like a child and say your demands must be met before you will discuss how wrong you were.  You ignore and want to play dumb games slinging names etc.  Until you can discuss the actual issue we are all bringing up, you are just the latest dancing fool for my enjoyment.  No more than the village idiot putting on a show.

The help of an expert does not mean having one physically there!!! Have you not been paying attention. Obviously not.

It means using any information from another source to enable you to think up, design and carry out the experiment. And NO. You have NOT given an example that passes muster. If you had we would not be here.

Are you paying attention?

The experiment must NOT be a repeat of a previously used one and MUST be 100% your own idea and original with no plagiarism involved of any kind.

It’s also precludes the use of any expert system such as gps a computer or any other device not of your own design and construction. Any off the shelf system constitutes the use of expert knowledge as it was experts who designed and constructed the device.

Doing an experiment without recourse to expert help means exactly what it says…..you are on your own.

Do you understand?

Right, you just need a first expert. Luckily, you already identified him - was it Yuri Gagarin? But then, who taught him? Whoever that was, that must be the first Earth Shape Expert, right? Oh shit wait, no, someone must have taught that person. Who was the first expert, again?

When did this thread change from "You need an expert to gain knowledge..." to:

How about you state how You without recourse to any kind of expert knowledge or assistance devise an experiment to prove the shape of the earth beyond doubt.