Flat Earth Maps?

Lots of ships were lost for various reasons, including storms and warfare.

Or just clouds in general.
Hard to travel by star when its cloudy.

If the earth were flat, it would be easy to make an accurate, fixed scale map on a flat sheet of paper.

It is impossible to make such a map because the earth is not flat.

There are a lot of rural unexplored areas and oceans where the differences occurs. What happens is that people simple measure the distance between cities and forcefully plot it on a round Earth, while distortions actually occurs on the rural areas and oceans, which is largely unexplored and very few people would notice inconsistencies. Meanwhile, as long as the sunrise is not too far away from the cited data, no one would notice. Let’s say the sunrise is 15 minutes off the true value in your city. Would anyone really notice it? Perhaps 30 minutes off? Even if a small number of people do notice, they will soon forget it after the sun rises.

There are a lot of rural unexplored areas and oceans where the differences occurs. What happens is that people simple measure the distance between cities and forcefully plot it on a round Earth

No, they don't forcefully plot it on a round Earth.
A round Earth is the only way to plot it.
There is no way to fit the distances otherwise.

while distortions actually occurs on the rural areas and oceans

Got any evidence of that?

Let’s say the sunrise is 15 minutes off the true value in your city.

Do you have an example of such a situation?
Or is this just your way to try to pretend a FE could work?

Quote from: Flatearthreign on February 07, 2022, 11:53:56 PM

There are a lot of rural unexplored areas and oceans where the differences occurs. What happens is that people simple measure the distance between cities and forcefully plot it on a round Earth

No, they don't forcefully plot it on a round Earth.
A round Earth is the only way to plot it.
There is no way to fit the distances otherwise.

Quote from: Flatearthreign on February 07, 2022, 11:53:56 PM

while distortions actually occurs on the rural areas and oceans

Got any evidence of that?

Quote from: Flatearthreign on February 07, 2022, 11:53:56 PM

Let’s say the sunrise is 15 minutes off the true value in your city.

Do you have an example of such a situation?
Or is this just your way to try to pretend a FE could work?

It is not the only way you can plot it, considering just the distances between cities and distances between rural villages may be different and no one would notice. The flat Earth map is also not accurate, considering the fact that rural areas and oceans are usually unexplored and unmeasured. Just observe a sunrise. Check whether the sun rises on the exact same minute the weather authorities claim. Moreover, the Earth is observers to be flat and hence it shall be people who claim Earth is round who should prove it. As they are the ones who claim something that is different from what is observed.

It is not the only way you can plot it, considering just the distances between cities and distances between rural villages may be different and no one would notice.

I'm pretty sure people would notice when the distances they drive and fly didn't match the maps.

I've driven thousands of miles back and forth across the country through big cities and empty rural areas and can confirm that yes, they are all where they should be.

If distances were as wrong as you say, you could easily find an example, but nobody can.

It is not the only way you can plot it

Then provide an alternative which has the distance between major cities still correct.

considering just the distances between cities and distances between rural villages may be different and no one would notice.

People would notice when they try to travel between them due to massively different travel times, different odometer readings and so on.

Just observe a sunrise. Check whether the sun rises on the exact same minute the weather authorities claim.

You mean that wonderful thing FEers can't explain?
If you are so confident that it is wrong, why don't you show where it is wrong, with actual evidence?
Make sure you find the time for your location, not simply your city.
The time of sunrise varies with longitude, latitude and elevation.

Moreover, the Earth is observers to be flat

No it isn't.
What you really mean is that when standing on it you don't notice the gradual curvature.

In order to observe it to be flat you would need to be able to show the entire Earth at once, with no significant curvature.
But photos from space (which you simply reject because it doesn't fit your fantasy) show quite clearly that it is round.

hence it shall be people who claim Earth is round who should prove it.

Earth has been proven to be round beyond any sane doubt. There are mountains evidence to support it including photos and simple experiments you can do yourself.
Conversely, all FE appears to have is "it looks flat".

As they are the ones who claim something that is different from what is observed.

No, that would be the flat earthers, claiming pure fantasy not backed up by any evidence.

Quote from: Flatearthreign on February 08, 2022, 03:28:43 AM

It is not the only way you can plot it, considering just the distances between cities and distances between rural villages may be different and no one would notice.

I'm pretty sure people would notice when the distances they drive and fly didn't match the maps.

I've driven thousands of miles back and forth across the country through big cities and empty rural areas and can confirm that yes, they are all where they should be.

If distances were as wrong as you say, you could easily find an example, but nobody can.

Minor curvatures in roads often goes unnoticed. But can change distances by a lot.

Quote from: JJA on February 08, 2022, 08:55:38 AM

Quote from: Flatearthreign on February 08, 2022, 03:28:43 AM

It is not the only way you can plot it, considering just the distances between cities and distances between rural villages may be different and no one would notice.

I'm pretty sure people would notice when the distances they drive and fly didn't match the maps.

I've driven thousands of miles back and forth across the country through big cities and empty rural areas and can confirm that yes, they are all where they should be.

If distances were as wrong as you say, you could easily find an example, but nobody can.

Minor curvatures in roads often goes unnoticed. But can change distances by a lot.

Ever heard of an odometer? Looks like this in a car:

Minor curvatures in roads often goes unnoticed. But can change distances by a lot.

Minor curves will result in a minor change of distance.

Quote from: JJA on February 08, 2022, 08:55:38 AM

Quote from: Flatearthreign on February 08, 2022, 03:28:43 AM

It is not the only way you can plot it, considering just the distances between cities and distances between rural villages may be different and no one would notice.

I'm pretty sure people would notice when the distances they drive and fly didn't match the maps.

I've driven thousands of miles back and forth across the country through big cities and empty rural areas and can confirm that yes, they are all where they should be.

If distances were as wrong as you say, you could easily find an example, but nobody can.

Minor curvatures in roads often goes unnoticed. But can change distances by a lot.

You do understand that cars have devices that can measure distance, right?

Sadly discussions with you reach diminishing returns faster and faster every time.  We've about reached zero already after a few days. New record?

The thing is that the main distortions occur in places where roads don’t even exist. Such as Sahara desert, oceans, etc. United States and Europe is unlikely to be distorted, but other places, mainly oceans and completely inhabited locations may be seriously stretched horizontally. Plane durations can be controlled simply by adjusting the speed of aircraft, which the pilots themselves rarely notice, until landing or emergency. A computer can easily calculate the adjusted speed that should be displayed by the direction of motion of the plane, Pythagorean theorem and the planes latitude.

The thing is that the main distortions occur in places where roads don’t even exist. Such as Sahara desert, oceans, etc. United States and Europe is unlikely to be distorted, but other places, mainly oceans and completely inhabited locations may be seriously stretched horizontally.

What "distortions" are you referring to? And why not stretched vertically? Diagonally?

Plane durations can be controlled simply by adjusting the speed of aircraft, which the pilots themselves rarely notice, until landing or emergency.

You're saying pilots aren't aware of their airspeed unless they are attempting to avoid a crash? Where are you getting this information from?

The thing is that the main distortions occur in places where roads don’t even exist. Such as Sahara desert, oceans, etc. United States and Europe is unlikely to be distorted, but other places, mainly oceans and completely inhabited locations may be seriously stretched horizontally. Plane durations can be controlled simply by adjusting the speed of aircraft, which the pilots themselves rarely notice, until landing or emergency. A computer can easily calculate the adjusted speed that should be displayed by the direction of motion of the plane, Pythagorean theorem and the planes latitude.

So the distances are only wrong in places you think it's hard to measure them.  Only where there are no roads.  How convenient.

I can assure you that regardless of how fast or slow a plane goes, if the distance is off the best case will be their fuel use will not match the estimate, and in the worst case they will run out of fuel and crash.

I suspect that would also be noticed. 

The thing is that the main distortions occur in places where roads don’t even exist.

That won't save you.
Do you accept the distances between major cities are correct as shown in the RE model?

Plane durations can be controlled simply by adjusting the speed of aircraft

No, they can't.
Planes can't go at the speeds needed to make a FE work.
Different speeds would result in different amounts of lift being generated and different fuel usage.

You are building up a massive conspiracy that there is absolutely no reason for.
You would need so many people involved in this conspiracy even though there is no reason for them to go along with it.

A round Earth is the only way to plot it.
There is no way to fit the distances otherwise.

Just a bunch of nonsense.

The differences in distances are negligible.

The thing is that the main distortions occur in places where roads don’t even exist. Such as Sahara desert, oceans, etc. United States and Europe is unlikely to be distorted,

Well then here's a little project for you:  Take a map of the United States. Use the established distances between Boston, Miami, Seattle, and San Diego and the fixed scale indicated on the map.  Try to verify the distances using a ruler and the map scale. If the earth were flat it would be easy to do, but you won't be able to do it because of the distortions caused by trying to lay the map of a curved surface out on a flat sheet of paper.

Quote from: JackBlack on February 08, 2022, 12:07:06 AM

A round Earth is the only way to plot it.
There is no way to fit the distances otherwise.

Just a bunch of nonsense.

The differences in distances are negligible.

Maps is flats!

Why don't you show us these 'negligible' differences.  Please produce the flat earth map you used to measure these, as I'm sure you actually did the work and are not just making it up.  How exactly did you come to your conclusion? 

Quote from: Flatearthreign on February 08, 2022, 01:42:47 PM

The thing is that the main distortions occur in places where roads don’t even exist. Such as Sahara desert, oceans, etc. United States and Europe is unlikely to be distorted,

Well then here's a little project for you:  Take a map of the United States. Use the established distances between Boston, Miami, Seattle, and San Diego and the fixed scale indicated on the map.  Try to verify the distances using a ruler and the map scale. If the earth were flat it would be easy to do, but you won't be able to do it because of the distortions caused by trying to lay the map of a curved surface out on a flat sheet of paper.

Why would I put a flat map on a ball and expect the result to be worthwhile in demonstrating reality. Only morons want to take the reality of a flat earth and desire to place it on a ball and then try to gaslight the shit out of an audience.

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on February 09, 2022, 05:13:08 AM

Quote from: JackBlack on February 08, 2022, 12:07:06 AM

A round Earth is the only way to plot it.
There is no way to fit the distances otherwise.

Just a bunch of nonsense.

The differences in distances are negligible.

Maps is flats!

Why don't you show us these 'negligible' differences.  Please produce the flat earth map you used to measure these, as I'm sure you actually did the work and are not just making it up.  How exactly did you come to your conclusion?

Take any map and you measure the distances in spherical terms. I don't believe in a spherical earth, you do. You do your own work. And then get back to us with your other than "negligible," amounts.

Quote from: JJA on February 09, 2022, 05:37:23 AM

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on February 09, 2022, 05:13:08 AM

Quote from: JackBlack on February 08, 2022, 12:07:06 AM

A round Earth is the only way to plot it.
There is no way to fit the distances otherwise.

Just a bunch of nonsense.

The differences in distances are negligible.

Maps is flats!

Why don't you show us these 'negligible' differences.  Please produce the flat earth map you used to measure these, as I'm sure you actually did the work and are not just making it up.  How exactly did you come to your conclusion?

Take any map and you measure the distances in spherical terms. I don't believe in a spherical earth, you do. You do your own work. And then get back to us with your other than "negligible," amounts.

Ok, so you don't actually have any evidence, haven't measured anything and are just parroting what others tell you. You can't provide a single map of your own, or any measurements, can't explain how you know any of this and your entire argument rests on your "belief" in a flat earth.

Good to know you're operating in a fact vacuum.

Interesting how certain you are that the 'distances are negligible' without actually trying to verify this for yourself in any way. You can believe any nonsense you want, but it doesn't make you any less wrong or ignorant.

I've personally driven on 3000 mile trips and can verify that the distances provided by round earth maps are correct.  If you have evidence of an incorrect distance you have discovered then please show the class. 

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on February 09, 2022, 05:40:56 AM

Quote from: JJA on February 09, 2022, 05:37:23 AM

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on February 09, 2022, 05:13:08 AM

Quote from: JackBlack on February 08, 2022, 12:07:06 AM

A round Earth is the only way to plot it.
There is no way to fit the distances otherwise.

Just a bunch of nonsense.

The differences in distances are negligible.

Maps is flats!

Why don't you show us these 'negligible' differences.  Please produce the flat earth map you used to measure these, as I'm sure you actually did the work and are not just making it up.  How exactly did you come to your conclusion?

Take any map and you measure the distances in spherical terms. I don't believe in a spherical earth, you do. You do your own work. And then get back to us with your other than "negligible," amounts.

Ok, so you don't actually have any evidence, haven't measured anything and are just parroting what others tell you. You can't provide a single map of your own, or any measurements, can't explain how you know any of this and your entire argument rests on your "belief" in a flat earth.

Good to know you're operating in a fact vacuum.

Interesting how certain you are that the 'distances are negligible' without actually trying to verify this for yourself in any way. You can believe any nonsense you want, but it doesn't make you any less wrong or ignorant.

I've personally driven on 3000 mile trips and can verify that the distances provided by round earth maps are correct.  If you have evidence of an incorrect distance you have discovered then please show the class. 

I have verified it to myself.

You go verify it to yourself.

When you arrive at some measure that could reasonably be determined to be something other than negligible, let everyone here know what you came up with. You'll be a tremendous hero. Until then, you are...

he's verified it himself that it's correct.
you have verified it yourself that it is incorrect.
He would love if you could show us your verification, but you put it back to him to verify that it's correct?

is that waht you're saying?

Quote from: JJA on February 09, 2022, 05:55:59 AM

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on February 09, 2022, 05:40:56 AM

Quote from: JJA on February 09, 2022, 05:37:23 AM

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on February 09, 2022, 05:13:08 AM

Quote from: JackBlack on February 08, 2022, 12:07:06 AM

A round Earth is the only way to plot it.
There is no way to fit the distances otherwise.

Just a bunch of nonsense.

The differences in distances are negligible.

Maps is flats!

Why don't you show us these 'negligible' differences.  Please produce the flat earth map you used to measure these, as I'm sure you actually did the work and are not just making it up.  How exactly did you come to your conclusion?

Take any map and you measure the distances in spherical terms. I don't believe in a spherical earth, you do. You do your own work. And then get back to us with your other than "negligible," amounts.

Ok, so you don't actually have any evidence, haven't measured anything and are just parroting what others tell you. You can't provide a single map of your own, or any measurements, can't explain how you know any of this and your entire argument rests on your "belief" in a flat earth.

Good to know you're operating in a fact vacuum.

Interesting how certain you are that the 'distances are negligible' without actually trying to verify this for yourself in any way. You can believe any nonsense you want, but it doesn't make you any less wrong or ignorant.

I've personally driven on 3000 mile trips and can verify that the distances provided by round earth maps are correct.  If you have evidence of an incorrect distance you have discovered then please show the class. 

I have verified it to myself.

You go verify it to yourself.

When you arrive at some measure that could reasonably be determined to be something other than negligible, let everyone here know what you came up with. You'll be a tremendous hero. Until then, you are...

Do you have some kind of reading comprehension disability?

I told you that yes, I verified it myself and I explained what I did.

You are saying you verified your 'small discrepancies' but... how?  Can you explain what you did?

And no, "I don't believe in round maps" is not an explanation.  Where did you go to measure?  How did you measure it?  How did you determine what the right measurement should be?

Please show us this flat earth map you used and verified the distances of.  If you can't even show us the map you used, that proves you are literally just making stuff up.

The differences in distances are negligible.

The difference in distances depends on the location, what projection you are using to pretend Earth is flat, and what distance you are going over.

An extreme case occurs around Antarctica, where a distance of a few m is represented on a FE map as a distance of 20 000 km, in completely the wrong direction.

Why would I put a flat map on a ball and expect the result to be worthwhile in demonstrating reality.

That wasn't what was asked of you.
You were asked to take the distances between the cities and show them on a flat surface to scale accurately.
Unless you want to continue with the extreme paranoia and pretend that the world is lying to you.

The map of a round Earth is distorted in uninhabited locations such as oceans and deserts. Many of these locations is distorted without people knowing. Round earthers simply measure the distance between large settlements and plot them on a sphere. Think about it, a lot of place, such as desert, were never visited by a human. How do humans map those places?( before satellites exist) You may measure the distances of large settlements and plot them on a plane. It would still work. Trying to project what is done based on the assumption that Earth is round into a plane is of course impossible.

The map of a round Earth is distorted in uninhabited locations such as oceans and deserts.

Where exactly is it distorted? And how do you know it's distorted if it hasn't/can't be measured?

The map of a round Earth is distorted in uninhabited locations such as oceans and deserts. Many of these locations is distorted without people knowing. Round earthers simply measure the distance between large settlements and plot them on a sphere. Think about it, a lot of place, such as desert, were never visited by a human. How do humans map those places?( before satellites exist) You may measure the distances of large settlements and plot them on a plane. It would still work. Trying to project what is done based on the assumption that Earth is round into a plane is of course impossible.

So the places that weren't mapped accurately were the places people didn't visit. Funny that.

It's a good job we have satellites now that can map with extreme accuracy.

The map of a round Earth is distorted in uninhabited locations

That is the lie you keep on repeating with nothing to back it up.
You seem to want it as an excuse to get out of the RE model working so well.

Round earthers simply measure the distance between large settlements and plot them on a sphere.

Stop just repeating the same ignorant nonsense.
The originally tried plotting on a flat plane, but as the area covered increased, and as the accuracy increased, it didn't work.
They had to use a sphere to make the distances match.

If the distance between "large settlements" is correct, then the RE model is correct.

You may measure the distances of large settlements and plot them on a plane. It would still work.

No, it wouldn't, not when you start getting multiple measurements.
If you take 3 points, and the distance between them, you can go from a flat surface to a round surface without problems. But if you bring in a 4th point, and get the distance to that 4th point from the other 3, then you cannot go from a flat surface to a sphere without changing at least 1 of those distances.

So no, if you have the distances between large settlements, accurately know, you CANNOT plot them on a flat surface.

There are indeed differences but the differences are small when there are straight and direct roads connecting the two locations and large when locations are separated by oceans or situation where roads needs to curve through forests or deserts or when an area is very underdeveloped, such as sub Saharan Africa. For example, difference in distance between New York and Ontario may be relatively small but difference in distance between London and New York may be much larger. Difference in distance between Sydney and San Diego would be much more larger.

There are indeed differences but the differences are small when there are straight and direct roads connecting the two locations and large when locations are separated by oceans or situation where roads needs to curve through forests or deserts or when an area is very underdeveloped, such as sub Saharan Africa. For example, difference in distance between New York and Ontario may be relatively small but difference in distance between London and New York may be much larger. Difference in distance between Sydney and San Diego would be much more larger.

You do understand that planes exist and fly over places with no roads?

We also send machines way up there to take pictures.

If any of these discrepancies existed, you could point to one as an example.

How can you be so confident these discrepancies exist if you can't even find any?