China to land on Mars

Congrats to China!

Does anyone know if this rover does something special?

I guess we should not bother with western media outlets who just seem content to put out a breif note and go to the country that's obviously proud of their achievement

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-05/15/c_139947277_4.htm

Here is some from the article

Tianwen-1, consisting of an orbiter, a lander and a rover, was launched from the Wenchang Spacecraft Launch Site on the coast of southern China's island province of Hainan on July 23, 2020. It was the first step in China's planetary exploration of the solar system, with the aim of completing orbiting, landing and roving on the red planet in one mission.


China has constructed Asia's largest steerable radio telescope with an antenna 70 meters in diameter in Wuqing District of northern China's Tianjin to receive data from the Mars exploration mission.

"According to the images sent back from the orbiter earlier, we've found a large crater with a diameter of about 620 meters close to the landing area of the probe," said Zhao Shu, a senior engineer at the National Astronomical Observatories under the Chinese Academy of Sciences.

The camera on the orbiter has taken detailed images at a resolution of about 0.7 meters, revealing the pre-selected landing area has complicated terrain with many rocks and more craters than previously expected, said Wang Chuang, one of the designers of the probe from the China Academy of Space Technology.

"But we believe the design of our probe is capable of landing in and exploring the region,"

It's an exploratory mission but also one where they have an orbiter, lander and rover in the one mission.

Quote from: Pezevenk on May 13, 2021, 11:57:48 AM

A lot of science is gonna move to China soon since they are becoming a larger economic power, and also not under a quasi-privatization process like NASA is. A lot of physicists are also very excited about the prospects of particle physics research growing in China.

The world is changing, who knows what it is changing into. Hopefully it's better.

Maybe. It'll be interesting to see what they do about climate change. But I have to think that these world class scientists would be just a little apprehensive about working with a country that'll lock you up if you call their leader Winnie the pooh.

On climate change they are literally going to try and turn the Gobi desert green
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-17/green-walls-in-china-and-africa-keeping-deserts-at-bay/11602796

The Great 'Green Wall'

The 50-year project involves the planting of more than 88 billion trees and the results so far, says Beiser, have been "amazing".

"You can drive through areas where they have planted just millions and millions and millions of trees," he says.

"I stood on top of a hillside in one place in inner Mongolia and as far as you could see it was desert land that had obviously been forested."
Listen to the episode
A large sand dune against a blue sky.

Future Tense explores two ambitious projects aimed at halting desertification and returning soil to productivity.
Read more

It's sold as a great patriotic effort to tame nature. And its success, to date, has relied on the involvement of tens of thousands of farmers and landholders following a regimented master plan.

"There's one area in the Kubuqi … they built this brand-new road through the desert, and all the way along the road for miles and miles and miles it's lined with trees," Beiser says.

"And then just behind those rows, is just sand, just sand as far as you can see."
A truly global problem

China is not alone in facing the threat of encroaching deserts.

Late last century, 197 states came together to ratify the United Nations' Convention to Combat Desertification.

Despite that, more than 24 billion tonnes of fertile soil is still lost annually to desertification, while 40 per cent of the Earth's land surface is now considered degraded.

I think China is far more invested in combating climate change then its given credit for. And in China they literally have a billion people who will listen to their government (fear or respect) and do what needs to be done.

You could not get Americans motivated to do this kind of work. Too much partisan bullshit. Too much 'you cant tell me what to do' and too much 'conspiracy theories' that will stop honest debate about the existential crisis through a climate catastrophe and biodiversity collapse we are facing

If WW3 happens then China is probably gonna win.
Also don't invite North korea.

If WW3 happens then China is probably gonna win.
Also don't invite North korea.

And this has what to do with Mars? Are the losers going to flee there or something? Is Chinas mission there secretly to test the feasibility of going there in case they lose?

Quote from: Pezevenk on May 13, 2021, 11:57:48 AM

A lot of science is gonna move to China soon since they are becoming a larger economic power, and also not under a quasi-privatization process like NASA is. A lot of physicists are also very excited about the prospects of particle physics research growing in China.

The world is changing, who knows what it is changing into. Hopefully it's better.

Maybe. It'll be interesting to see what they do about climate change. But I have to think that these world class scientists would be just a little apprehensive about working with a country that'll lock you up if you call their leader Winnie the pooh.

We're talking mainly about physicists, engineers, etc. They're nerds, they don't care for the most part.

Also, they don't even have to like it, they don't have to live there. They can just work there and return every now and then. And it's not like people in China are arrested all the time for stuff, especially foreigners. The worst thing that can happen to a foreigner is typically not getting their visa renewed etc unless something serious happens. And this is kind of typical in many places, academics and students on visas aren't held to the same standards as citizens. They can be both stricter and more lax, because the punishment is usually just deportation for everything. It's an issue in the US too for many people, because while freedom of speech, assembly, etc is theoretically in the constitution, it doesn't say anything about who you can give visas to. So there was for instance last year that Palestinian kid at Harvard who was stopped at the airport and sent back because he was in some FB meme groups where some people had posted pro Palestine memes, or like a few days ago the Chinese kid who had offers from 10 unis whose visa was denied because their dad was a community police officer in China, and there is even a Greek member of the EU parliament I know of who is blacklisted from entering the US because he made a documentary about terrorism which aired on public TV in Greece, and which the state department didn't like apparently. And he isn't even a member of some fringe party, he is a member of very mainstream Syriza. I don't even know if I might be at risk of having a visa denied, if they find out some protests I took part in, or some messages on FB or whatever. People know there is a risk of that sort of stuff happening when they go to some other country for work or study, they're careful regardless.

I have an uncle who went to Saudi Arabia to work there, and a number of family members as well as an old acquaintance who went for work or study in the UAE. These places are arguably worse than China but people still go there. Scientists will go to China if it is the only place where certain research can be conducted.

Finally I don't think China is necessarily gonna be so restrictive for years to come. Lots of people there want restrictions to be relaxed.

As for climate change, China is doing good if you look at per capita emissions. They don't want to have to use a lot of fossil fuel anyways, because the US and allies hold most of them. The issue in China is that many of their larger cities are very very polluted.

Americas problem too is it's own education system is woeful and the only reason why they get anywhere is a H1B visa. They literally let other countries invest all the money and resources in educating their youth and then America swoops in with grand offers to take them away to work for them

America is arguably becoming a worse and worse place to live. It's deeply divided, polarized, violent and very heavy in debt that soon it will break. No wonder they hate China given China will soon overtake it as the economic powerhouse and it will do so without being 30 trillion or whatever the American debt level is in debt

I think if people actually went to China they would be quite shocked at how technologically advanced the non rural areas actually are. It has every chance of looking like the better prospect to live and work than America. I know people in America think they are living in the greatest place on Earth and are the envy of the world but they really need to take a look from an outsiders point of view and frankly the view on America is mostly adjectives that have negative connotations.

Americas problem too is it's own education system is woeful and the only reason why they get anywhere is a H1B visa. They literally let other countries invest all the money and resources in educating their youth and then America swoops in with grand offers to take them away to work for them

America is arguably becoming a worse and worse place to live. It's deeply divided, polarized, violent and very heavy in debt that soon it will break. No wonder they hate China given China will soon overtake it as the economic powerhouse and it will do so without being 30 trillion or whatever the American debt level is in debt

And this has what to do with China's Mars mission and your local media coverage?

It's well understood you dislike the US and our politics, you bring it up when it has no correlation to the subject and twist it in somehow.  Perhaps you should have stronger focus on your government and media, after all, that was the topic of your OP.

Did you at least hear the news that Rocket Lab had a failed launch yesterday?  It's a company owned by your brothers in New Zealand and launched from their facility.  Just curious if this made news there or it only showed in my "American" news feed.

Americas problem too is it's own education system is woeful and the only reason why they get anywhere is a H1B visa. They literally let other countries invest all the money and resources in educating their youth and then America swoops in with grand offers to take them away to work for them

America is arguably becoming a worse and worse place to live. It's deeply divided, polarized, violent and very heavy in debt that soon it will break. No wonder they hate China given China will soon overtake it as the economic powerhouse and it will do so without being 30 trillion or whatever the American debt level is in debt

I think if people actually went to China they would be quite shocked at how technologically advanced the non rural areas actually are. It has every chance of looking like the better prospect to live and work than America. I know people in America think they are living in the greatest place on Earth and are the envy of the world but they really need to take a look from an outsiders point of view and frankly the view on America is mostly adjectives that have negative connotations.

I wonder if the Uyghur Muslims share your high opinion of China.

Americas problem too is it's own education system is woeful and the only reason why they get anywhere is a H1B visa. They literally let other countries invest all the money and resources in educating their youth and then America swoops in with grand offers to take them away to work for them

America is arguably becoming a worse and worse place to live. It's deeply divided, polarized, violent and very heavy in debt that soon it will break. No wonder they hate China given China will soon overtake it as the economic powerhouse and it will do so without being 30 trillion or whatever the American debt level is in debt

I think if people actually went to China they would be quite shocked at how technologically advanced the non rural areas actually are. It has every chance of looking like the better prospect to live and work than America. I know people in America think they are living in the greatest place on Earth and are the envy of the world but they really need to take a look from an outsiders point of view and frankly the view on America is mostly adjectives that have negative connotations.

Do you think China did all that without debt because of their vast resources?

Quote from: Curiouser and Curiouser on May 15, 2021, 07:08:16 AM

Quote from: Shifter on May 14, 2021, 06:35:25 PM

China successfully lands on Mars!

Congratulations China. Not that you'll hear much about it. I only found an emotionless statement buried in between news stories like I predicted

If this were NASA or Space X, you guys would be making a thread about it then boasting about how spherical the earth is once again. No one cares about China's achievement.

On the front page of CNN

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/14/world/china-mars-rover-landing-scn/index.html

I guess it's only crap if the US does it. Or if it's something that shifter can fake outrage about.

Bullshit. THIS is the front page of CNN

https://edition.cnn.com/

Then you have to click on the 'World tab'. Oh look its still not there

So then you have to click on the 'China' tab', so obviously it's going to be there

Double bullshit on you.

Of course there are no stories on the front page of CNN. I posted the link to the article that was linked from the front page of CNN. Are you intentionally being obtuse?

And just because your browser didn’t display the story on edition.cnn.com doesn’t mean my browser didn’t display it on www.cnn.com where a link to the story above was on the front page. Each displays links to different stories, and they constantly update.

You just enjoy being outraged so much that simple things like how web pages work goes over your head.

Have fun with your bloviating screeds!

Quote from: Shifter on May 15, 2021, 11:42:30 AM

Americas problem too is it's own education system is woeful and the only reason why they get anywhere is a H1B visa. They literally let other countries invest all the money and resources in educating their youth and then America swoops in with grand offers to take them away to work for them

America is arguably becoming a worse and worse place to live. It's deeply divided, polarized, violent and very heavy in debt that soon it will break. No wonder they hate China given China will soon overtake it as the economic powerhouse and it will do so without being 30 trillion or whatever the American debt level is in debt

I think if people actually went to China they would be quite shocked at how technologically advanced the non rural areas actually are. It has every chance of looking like the better prospect to live and work than America. I know people in America think they are living in the greatest place on Earth and are the envy of the world but they really need to take a look from an outsiders point of view and frankly the view on America is mostly adjectives that have negative connotations.

I wonder if the Uyghur Muslims share your high opinion of China.

Many of them are fine with it

Quote from: Shifter on May 15, 2021, 11:42:30 AM

Americas problem too is it's own education system is woeful and the only reason why they get anywhere is a H1B visa. They literally let other countries invest all the money and resources in educating their youth and then America swoops in with grand offers to take them away to work for them

America is arguably becoming a worse and worse place to live. It's deeply divided, polarized, violent and very heavy in debt that soon it will break. No wonder they hate China given China will soon overtake it as the economic powerhouse and it will do so without being 30 trillion or whatever the American debt level is in debt

I think if people actually went to China they would be quite shocked at how technologically advanced the non rural areas actually are. It has every chance of looking like the better prospect to live and work than America. I know people in America think they are living in the greatest place on Earth and are the envy of the world but they really need to take a look from an outsiders point of view and frankly the view on America is mostly adjectives that have negative connotations.

Do you think China did all that without debt because of their vast resources?

You mean resources like what they have to buy from Australia such as iron ore, nickel, copper, coal and so on?

Have fun

Thanks man you too

You mean resources like what they have to buy from Australia such as iron ore, nickel, copper, coal and so on?

Yes, like those.

Quote from: Crouton on May 15, 2021, 07:57:41 AM

Quote from: Pezevenk on May 13, 2021, 11:57:48 AM

A lot of science is gonna move to China soon since they are becoming a larger economic power, and also not under a quasi-privatization process like NASA is. A lot of physicists are also very excited about the prospects of particle physics research growing in China.

The world is changing, who knows what it is changing into. Hopefully it's better.

Maybe. It'll be interesting to see what they do about climate change. But I have to think that these world class scientists would be just a little apprehensive about working with a country that'll lock you up if you call their leader Winnie the pooh.

We're talking mainly about physicists, engineers, etc. They're nerds, they don't care for the most part.

Also, they don't even have to like it, they don't have to live there. They can just work there and return every now and then. And it's not like people in China are arrested all the time for stuff, especially foreigners. The worst thing that can happen to a foreigner is typically not getting their visa renewed etc unless something serious happens. And this is kind of typical in many places, academics and students on visas aren't held to the same standards as citizens. They can be both stricter and more lax, because the punishment is usually just deportation for everything. It's an issue in the US too for many people, because while freedom of speech, assembly, etc is theoretically in the constitution, it doesn't say anything about who you can give visas to. So there was for instance last year that Palestinian kid at Harvard who was stopped at the airport and sent back because he was in some FB meme groups where some people had posted pro Palestine memes, or like a few days ago the Chinese kid who had offers from 10 unis whose visa was denied because their dad was a community police officer in China, and there is even a Greek member of the EU parliament I know of who is blacklisted from entering the US because he made a documentary about terrorism which aired on public TV in Greece, and which the state department didn't like apparently. And he isn't even a member of some fringe party, he is a member of very mainstream Syriza. I don't even know if I might be at risk of having a visa denied, if they find out some protests I took part in, or some messages on FB or whatever. People know there is a risk of that sort of stuff happening when they go to some other country for work or study, they're careful regardless.

I have an uncle who went to Saudi Arabia to work there, and a number of family members as well as an old acquaintance who went for work or study in the UAE. These places are arguably worse than China but people still go there. Scientists will go to China if it is the only place where certain research can be conducted.

Finally I don't think China is necessarily gonna be so restrictive for years to come. Lots of people there want restrictions to be relaxed.

As for climate change, China is doing good if you look at per capita emissions. They don't want to have to use a lot of fossil fuel anyways, because the US and allies hold most of them. The issue in China is that many of their larger cities are very very polluted.

Saudi Arabia is much worse than China in my opinion.  They're both essentially dictatorships but China is at least driven by logic whereas Saudi Arabia believes in fucking sorcery.

I can believe the US abuses visa access.  That's not a good thing but we're hardly unique there. 

There is something interesting going on with China and climate change.  The US has enormous resources that can be used towards stopping climate change but we don't do that because, you know, capitalism.  But China now has enormous resources as well except they don't have Fox News trying to brainwash people to distrust climate science.  They're in a unique position to do quite a bit to fight climate change and I think we're seeing some of that already with their renewable energy production.

Quote from: Shifter on May 15, 2021, 09:26:22 PM

You mean resources like what they have to buy from Australia such as iron ore, nickel, copper, coal and so on?

Yes, like those.

I'm sure Australia would like to be more diverse in its markets. Just ask!

Quote from: sokarul on May 15, 2021, 09:30:53 PM

Quote from: Shifter on May 15, 2021, 09:26:22 PM

You mean resources like what they have to buy from Australia such as iron ore, nickel, copper, coal and so on?

Yes, like those.

I'm sure Australia would like to be more diverse in its markets. Just ask!

What does that have to do with my original question?

Quote from: Shifter on May 15, 2021, 09:42:51 PM

Quote from: sokarul on May 15, 2021, 09:30:53 PM

Quote from: Shifter on May 15, 2021, 09:26:22 PM

You mean resources like what they have to buy from Australia such as iron ore, nickel, copper, coal and so on?

Yes, like those.

I'm sure Australia would like to be more diverse in its markets. Just ask!

What does that have to do with my original question?

You said China wasn't so much in debt because of its vast resources. I said it has many it still has to buy from other nations. Just like America I guess

China isn't filled with many raw resources it can extract from its own. It has to source them elsewhere. Iron, nickel, copper, timber etc... It buys a shit tonne

So your original question or rebuttal of China not being so much in debt because of its vast resources (as if America doesn't have) is bogus

You said China wasn't so much in debt because of its vast resources. I said it has many it still has to buy from other nations. Just like America I guess

Do you think China did all that without debt because of their vast resources?

In English “?” is called a question mark. Used when asking a question.

Quote from: Shifter on May 15, 2021, 09:58:16 PM

You said China wasn't so much in debt because of its vast resources. I said it has many it still has to buy from other nations. Just like America I guess

Quote from: sokarul on May 15, 2021, 04:22:38 PM

Do you think China did all that without debt because of their vast resources?

In English “?” is called a question mark. Used when asking a question.

In English your question was a leading question stating China has vast resources and asking if their so called vast resources was the reason they don't have a massive debt like Ameritard.

Also in your case the question mark did not mean an honest question but an attempt to look smug in the thinking 'I gotcha'

Backpedal all you want. You were wrong. Your country is in a debt spiral it will never recover from while other countries simply get shit done

I made zero claims about the resources China has. Perhaps we should continue this conversation sometime later when you are not trashed.

I made zero claims about the resources China has. Perhaps we should continue this conversation sometime later when you are not trashed.

Lol literally

Do you think China did all that without debt because of their vast resources?

Yes, let's continue when you aren't trashed.

Yes I asked a question. I didn’t imply anything about an amount of resources. You never answered the question and instead made outlandish claims

Yes I asked a question. I didn’t imply anything about an amount of resources. You never answered the question and instead made outlandish claims

Your question was not related to do they have vast resources? You stated that they do and your question was asking if I think (so just wondering my opinion) relating to their debt being lower because of their 'vast resources'

So what were my 'outlandish claims'? That they import a lot of raw materials from Australia? Go and fact check that yourself if you want. It's true they do.

You appear to be struggling with your own English. Or you just mash the keyboard hoping for semi coherent words. Either way, you should just stop posting to avoid further embarrassing yourself

I can believe the US abuses visa access.  That's not a good thing but we're hardly unique there. 

Yes, that's my point, it happens in many places and people put up with things to work there, especially temporarily. For instance, if I go to the UK I will have to put up with the godawful food and that's a big thing to ask.

There is something interesting going on with China and climate change.  The US has enormous resources that can be used towards stopping climate change but we don't do that because, you know, capitalism.  But China now has enormous resources as well except they don't have Fox News trying to brainwash people to distrust climate science.  They're in a unique position to do quite a bit to fight climate change and I think we're seeing some of that already with their renewable energy production.

Yes, there is that, and also there is the fact that they don't have as much access to fossil fuels so it pays to invest in renewables, so that they can be more independent. Also they have better control over their economy and productive forces.

Quote from: sokarul on May 15, 2021, 11:26:43 PM

Yes I asked a question. I didn’t imply anything about an amount of resources. You never answered the question and instead made outlandish claims

Your question was not related to do they have vast resources? You stated that they do and your question was asking if I think (so just wondering my opinion) relating to their debt being lower because of their 'vast resources'

Incorrect. "Vast resources" was in the question, not outside it.

So what were my 'outlandish claims'? That they import a lot of raw materials from Australia? Go and fact check that yourself if you want. It's true they do.

"You said China wasn't so much in debt because of its vast resources. "
"so your original question or rebuttal of China not being so much in debt because of its vast resources (as if America doesn't have) is bogus "
"In English your question was a leading question stating China has vast resources and asking if their so called vast resources was the reason they don't have a massive debt like Ameritard."
"Also in your case the question mark did not mean an honest question but an attempt to look smug in the thinking 'I gotcha'"
"Backpedal all you want. You were wrong. Your country is in a debt spiral it will never recover from while other countries simply get shit done"
"You stated that they do "

These claims.

You appear to be struggling with your own English. Or you just mash the keyboard hoping for semi coherent words. Either way, you should just stop posting to avoid further embarrassing yourself

I asked a simple question. Your lack of critical thinking is not my fault.

Read your own question again. It was a leading question. Frankly, fuck your leading question

You want people to answer your stupid questions? Ask a better way

Like

"Does China have vast resources? If so could this be why they were able to do all that without going into debt?"

Not

"Do you think China did all that without debt because of their vast resources?"


That's a leading question. Fuck those

China has tons of debt in it's system - most of its corporations are have all sorts of huge debts.  But it basically owes itself as it controls the banks that run the credit lines.  Though it has increasingly started to let companies go under and is making the ratings agencies give a more honest picture of the risk of publicly traded bonds

https://www.ft.com/content/9f26c115-a889-4b57-8c70-4aaff6a42e16


America actually 80% of it's debts it owes to itself, so isn't that different in some ways.


More on Chinese debt here:

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Markets/China-debt-crunch/China-debt-fears-grow-amid-wave-of-corporate-defaults

Nonfinancial corporate debt climbed to 159.1% of GDP in the first quarter from 152.2% a year earlier, according to the Institute of International Finance, which counts 400 banks and financial institutions across the globe as members. The ratio is the world's second highest, behind only Hong Kong. In comparison, the proportion in the U.S. stood at 78.1%, in the euro area at 109.8%, 106.4% in Japan and 96.1% on average across emerging markets.

Frankly, fuck your leading question

Keep it in AR, if you please.

Quote from: Shifter on May 17, 2021, 04:50:16 AM

Frankly, fuck your leading question

Keep it in AR, if you please.

Yes, Mr previous mod.....