Why is America so racist?

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Pezevenk

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2021, 12:06:47 AM »
You know that's now how Native Americans think of themselves, right? They don't think you have to be 100% pure NA to be NA. Everyone is of mixed ancestry.

I don't know where you get your stereotypes from, but here we know Latin America includes many of the Caribbean islands, Mexico, Central America, and South America.
In many places in South America, there is and there has been a significant distinction between mestizos and natives, both in their way of life and the way they have been treated by states and society. In some countries mestizos and indigenous were separate castes codified into law, so it's not the same at all.

I didn't say people only think about Mexicans in particular. There is many mestizos in other countries too. The thing that many, many people especially don't realize is that many Latinos are just white.
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Pezevenk

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2021, 12:17:33 AM »
What's the difference between a Latinx and a native American?

The stereotypical latino isn't even native, they are mestizos. At least that's what most (but far from all) Mexicans are, which has led Americans to believe that all latinos are mestizos. A mestizo is someone of mixed European (mainly Spanish) and native ancestry. There's also "latinos" who are native, and "latinos" who are of African ancestry, or mixed African and native/African and European, or entirely European. For instance, most people in Uruguay are white.
I've never heard anyone believing this, exceprt perhaps in the more racist parts of South America.
Believing what? It's just true lol perhaps you've never heard anyone in the US believe it which is kind of what I am talking about. And yes, as your comment hinted, there are racial tensions in many countries in South America. Which is another reason why it doesn't make any sense to group all of them in one group and especially act like it is a race (calling people "hispanic" or "Latinos" as it it is similar to white and black). People in South America don't consider themselves "Latinos" or whatever, they consider themselves whatever they really are, they only start calling themselves that usually when they move to the US, or if they have had a lot of contact with US media. Seriously, it is an extremely weird category. It's like calling "American" a race. Because of that sort of stuff there is a lot of weird conclusions by people that don't make sense. For instance some people are surprised many voted for Trump, and they're like "but how do so many people of color vote for Trump?". Except they don't seem to understand that a lot of them are just white, and that there were similar power dynamics and conflicts within their own countries.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2021, 09:13:52 AM »
You know that's now how Native Americans think of themselves, right? They don't think you have to be 100% pure NA to be NA. Everyone is of mixed ancestry.

I don't know where you get your stereotypes from, but here we know Latin America includes many of the Caribbean islands, Mexico, Central America, and South America.
In many places in South America, there is and there has been a significant distinction between mestizos and natives, both in their way of life and the way they have been treated by states and society. In some countries mestizos and indigenous were separate castes codified into law, so it's not the same at all.

I didn't say people only think about Mexicans in particular. There is many mestizos in other countries too. The thing that many, many people especially don't realize is that many Latinos are just white.

TBH, you're the only person I've ever seen refer to Latinos as mestizos, so this is all very confusing. Latin America just refers to a region, not the races of the people who live there.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2021, 09:27:59 AM »
I didn't refer to Latinos as mestizos. I said the folks people usually associate with Latinos/Hispanics are typically mestizos.

Quote
Latin America just refers to a region, not the races of the people who live there.

Don't tell me, I've seen way too many weird and very wide debates which wouldn't take place if people realized Latino is not a race, or that South America is extremely non homogeneous and many places hold a lot of racial tensions.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2021, 09:42:54 AM »
I think because most of the Latinos in the US tend to come from Mexico, that is who is most associated with being Latino (especially in the western US).  Florida has many Cuban, Puerto Rican, and even pockets of Dominican Republic immigrants, so our view of who is Latino is broader.

I know that in every place in the world people are prejudiced against some other group. The title of the thread made me think you meant the United States ("America" usually means us). I do know that groups of Latinos are prejudiced against other groups of Latinos. Heck, I had Mexican neighbors, and the husband was proud of being more Spanish than his wife, it was weird.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2021, 10:27:24 AM »
I think because most of the Latinos in the US tend to come from Mexico, that is who is most associated with being Latino (especially in the western US).  Florida has many Cuban, Puerto Rican, and even pockets of Dominican Republic immigrants, so our view of who is Latino is broader.

I know that in every place in the world people are prejudiced against some other group. The title of the thread made me think you meant the United States ("America" usually means us). I do know that groups of Latinos are prejudiced against other groups of Latinos. Heck, I had Mexican neighbors, and the husband was proud of being more Spanish than his wife, it was weird.
Yes, I agree with what you said in the first paragraph. I did mean the US mainly when I said America, the point I tried to make was that many people in the US just think of "latinos" as the average Mexican. The result is that they often don't realize how heterogeneous south America is, or that as you said many Latinos are prejudiced against other Latinos, or that Latino/hispanic/whatever isn't a racial category, or that many Latinos are just as white as they are.

But I did expect it to be somewhat different in Florida for the reasons you said.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2021, 12:03:27 PM »
In general, I think most US Americans don't know much about S. Americans. I mean, we know some of the history but not much of the culture (besides the obvious things like Carnival in Rio). My grandparents and my father lived in Venezuela, Columbia, and Argentina way before I was born, but other than knowing they speak Spanish, I didn't really learn anything about those countries from them.

I don't think I'd classify lack of knowledge as racism, though.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2021, 02:48:54 PM »
In general, I think most US Americans don't know much about S. Americans. I mean, we know some of the history but not much of the culture (besides the obvious things like Carnival in Rio). My grandparents and my father lived in Venezuela, Columbia, and Argentina way before I was born, but other than knowing they speak Spanish, I didn't really learn anything about those countries from them.

I don't think I'd classify lack of knowledge as racism, though.
No, I didn't say it is racist. It's just kind of silly.
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Crouton

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2021, 03:23:12 PM »
The outlook on, well let's just go with the word "latinos", is probably a little different than the rest of the country.  In my experience we don't differentiate much between Columbian, Cuban etc.  Latino is Latino in pretty much the same way as white is white.  For example we just wouldn't regard someone from Greece being much different than someone from Norway if they're family has been in the US for more than one generation.

I don't regard it as racist or silly for the same reason that I wouldn't expect someone to be an expert on my Scottish/English ancestry.  It's just not something that matters.
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Pezevenk

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2021, 05:55:36 AM »
The outlook on, well let's just go with the word "latinos", is probably a little different than the rest of the country.  In my experience we don't differentiate much between Columbian, Cuban etc.  Latino is Latino in pretty much the same way as white is white.  For example we just wouldn't regard someone from Greece being much different than someone from Norway if they're family has been in the US for more than one generation.

I don't regard it as racist or silly for the same reason that I wouldn't expect someone to be an expert on my Scottish/English ancestry.  It's just not something that matters.
Maybe it isn't to you but it often is important to them. And forgetting about it leads people to weird conclusions regarding polls or social attitudes etc. You say that Latino is Latino the same way white is white. But that's the issue, there is white Latinos, there is black Latinos, there is indigenous, and there is mestizos. For instance, many Cubans (in fact most) are just white. But there is also many mulattos, many mestizos, and finally many black Cubans. Said afrocubans were slaves to the white Cubans, and if I am not mistaken slavery in Cuba was only abolished long after it was in the US. So it doesn't make a lot of sense to put them in the same category. People get confused and think "wait, how is it possible that so many Latinos in Florida voted for Trump? Aren't they minority POC? How come they don't vote similar to other POC?" and it's, like, of course they vote for Trump, a lot of them are every bit as white as the "typically" white Americans and some miss their servants.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 05:59:10 AM by Pezevenk »
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2021, 06:46:53 AM »
Cubans are mostly conservative, it's not a secret. The media and politicians have always tried to lump people together. They want to be able to predict how they will behave or how they will vote (or influence behavior). If the category "Latino" isn't good for predictions, then neither is "white" or "black".
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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lonely toast

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2021, 11:03:26 AM »
Cubans are mostly conservative, it's not a secret. The media and politicians have always tried to lump people together. They want to be able to predict how they will behave or how they will vote (or influence behavior). If the category "Latino" isn't good for predictions, then neither is "white" or "black".
I saw a poster one and it siad something about "your skin color doesnt matter,whether your black, yellow or normal"
Fucking racist who made this.
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boydster

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2021, 11:11:23 AM »
Defecting Cubans have a very good reason to be very opposed to anything that sounds like it could turn into communism, and the Republican party has been pretty clear in their messaging that Democrats are socialists and/or super-commies.

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lonely toast

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2021, 11:13:13 AM »
Defecting Cubans have a very good reason to be very opposed to anything that sounds like it could turn into communism, and the Republican party has been pretty clear in their messaging that Democrats are socialists and/or super-commies.
SHARING IS COMMUNISM!
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boydster

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2021, 11:19:15 AM »
Defecting Cubans have a very good reason to be very opposed to anything that sounds like it could turn into communism, and the Republican party has been pretty clear in their messaging that Democrats are socialists and/or super-commies.
SHARING IS COMMUNISM!
You say this, probably in jest, but it's really not far from the caricature that has been very intentionally built to recruit Republican voters. And it works. Depending on the demographics, it works for both sides - one side from a "this is what they believe" perspective, and the other from a "those people really think we believe this" angle. In case people need evidence that grown adults can still believe in cartoons, there you go. They can, and they do.

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lonely toast

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2021, 11:23:07 AM »
Defecting Cubans have a very good reason to be very opposed to anything that sounds like it could turn into communism, and the Republican party has been pretty clear in their messaging that Democrats are socialists and/or super-commies.
SHARING IS COMMUNISM!
You say this, probably in jest, but it's really not far from the caricature that has been very intentionally built to recruit Republican voters. And it works. Depending on the demographics, it works for both sides - one side from a "this is what they believe" perspective, and the other from a "those people really think we believe this" angle. In case people need evidence that grown adults can still believe in cartoons, there you go. They can, and they do.
I dont think cubans are communist.
But only one man could defeat 500 men alone and his name is "The white death"
Too bad he didn't fight in the cold war.
He would have been so useful.
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Shifter

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2021, 11:28:05 AM »
Defecting Cubans have a very good reason to be very opposed to anything that sounds like it could turn into communism, and the Republican party has been pretty clear in their messaging that Democrats are socialists and/or super-commies.

The really weird thing was that Cubans or Venezuelans were scared into voting for a guy like Trump because they believed Biden would be a socialist like the evil governments they had fled

But honestly from any objective point of view, Trump was who they should have feared. A strongman who trashed the media, journalism and science, shameless nepotism, cult like following and a love for dictators around the world among a few things. Hell he even tried to 'joke' about being a dictator for life more than once. Testing the waters on the reaction no doubt



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lonely toast

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2021, 11:32:57 AM »
When this place gets evil im moving back to south korea.
But im not leaving yet because of the shootings and protests.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 11:34:42 AM by Nostradamus »
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boydster

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2021, 11:43:12 AM »
I dont think cubans are communist.
Cool story bro. But, also this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba#Revolution_and_Communist_party_rule_(1959%E2%80%93present). Communism is a thing familiar to Cubans, and one that people fleeing it would have a good reason to be very opposed to dipping their toes back into.

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lonely toast

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2021, 11:46:10 AM »
I dont think cubans are communist.
Cool story bro. But, also this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba#Revolution_and_Communist_party_rule_(1959%E2%80%93present). Communism is a thing familiar to Cubans, and one that people fleeing it would have a good reason to be very opposed to dipping their toes back into.
I dont trust wikipedia.
Because anyone can edit it.
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boydster

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #50 on: May 14, 2021, 11:55:26 AM »
Whether you trust Wikipedia or not has very little bearing on the reality that is the political history of Cuba.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #51 on: May 14, 2021, 01:13:26 PM »
Defecting Cubans have a very good reason to be very opposed to anything that sounds like it could turn into communism, and the Republican party has been pretty clear in their messaging that Democrats are socialists and/or super-commies.

My uncle's bff is Cuban and he is super Republican (my uncle is too). The Democrats are commies propaganda is strong.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Why is America so racist?
« Reply #52 on: May 15, 2021, 02:06:00 AM »
When Batista fell his supporters fled to the US. It's not just "Democrats are commies" propaganda. They may well know the Democrats aren't communists but it doesn't matter, a lot of them range from highly conservative to just fascist like Batista so it's not like they are "tricked". It's not true for everyone of course but this is a common phenomenon. Kinda like the Germans in some regions of South America, many of whom are Nazis who fled there. Or some of the Greeks in America and Australia, who left after WWII because they were nazi collaborators or after the downfall of the junta in 1974, and they poll consistently much further to the right than people who live here. And then there is the labourers who left the country to work in Germany or the communists who fled to Eastern Europe, and all these people poll overwhelmingly for the communist party. If you look at what Greek people abroad vote for and where they lie ideologically, it looks nothing like the ones inside the country.
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