Has anyone spilled the beans yet?

There are 72 federal space agencies in the world (Link for a list of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_space_agencies), This means there are tens of thousands of people needed to work at all of these. For 68 years of spaceflight, and potentially dozens of thousands of people, and nobody ever said that this was a hoax? Surely someone would admit to it by now, but nobody has. Weird. Is everyone just really good at holding this one specific secret, or is there not a secret to keep?

Where would you expect to hear this? On the news?

Nobody has spilled any beans that people are willing to accept as spilling the beans.
Anyone that appears to whistleblow is cast off as a scientist gone mad or a rebel who has a vengeance because they were sacked.
No conspiracies here, is the word.

Maybe very few spill any beans due to only a few actually knowing what's what with the rest simply believing they are part of something legit. Massive compartmentalisation.

Possible?

I recall the American government got nervous when North Korea wanted to launch a satellite. Sure they gave us the whole 'it's a cover for their missile program' but I wonder if there was also another reason they aren't sharing with us

I recall the American government got nervous when North Korea wanted to launch a satellite. Sure they gave us the whole 'it's a cover for their missile program' but I wonder if there was also another reason they aren't sharing with us

And then the North Koreans launched their satellite anyway. Where are the beans?

Where would you expect to hear this? On the news?

If only there were some kind of technology that allowed anyone to make whatever information they like accessible to the whole world.

Until then, I guess we’re all stuck with getting everything from BBC World Service on long wave radio.

Quote from: Shifter on April 29, 2021, 02:16:36 AM

I recall the American government got nervous when North Korea wanted to launch a satellite. Sure they gave us the whole 'it's a cover for their missile program' but I wonder if there was also another reason they aren't sharing with us

And then the North Koreans launched their satellite anyway. Where are the beans?

Their satellite failed. Probably the work of the Americans
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/world/asia/north-korean-satellite.html

If only there were some kind of technology that allowed anyone to make whatever information they like accessible to the whole world.

I am sure that with enough time and effort you and I can find people on the internet professing almost anything.

What reason do I have to believe that you would A) likely hear of it, and B) find it credible?

Quote from: Alpha2Omega on April 29, 2021, 10:40:47 AM

Quote from: Shifter on April 29, 2021, 02:16:36 AM

I recall the American government got nervous when North Korea wanted to launch a satellite. Sure they gave us the whole 'it's a cover for their missile program' but I wonder if there was also another reason they aren't sharing with us

And then the North Koreans launched their satellite anyway. Where are the beans?

Their satellite failed. Probably the work of the Americans
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/world/asia/north-korean-satellite.html

Several of them failed, but not all of them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmy%C5%8Fngs%C5%8Fng-3_Unit_2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmy%C5%8Fngs%C5%8Fng-4

Where are the beans?

Quote from: Unconvinced on April 29, 2021, 10:47:34 AM

If only there were some kind of technology that allowed anyone to make whatever information they like accessible to the whole world.

I am sure that with enough time and effort you and I can find people on the internet professing almost anything.

What reason do I have to believe that you would A) likely hear of it, and B) find it credible?

Me?  You're the one who claims to believe this.  Don't you want to find the evidence for yourself?

But OK, I'll set the bar low.  Find one space agency whistle blower with one supposedly incriminating document to show for themselves and I'll take a look.

Where would you expect to hear this? On the news?

No, more like a firsthand anonymous account from an actual employee who finally want to reveal whatever truth they may hold

I guess North Korea is part of the conspiracy now, as they are 'faking' their satellite launches just like NASA.

Hey, common ground... maybe Biden can use this to negotiate a peace treaty. They give up their nukes, NASA shares the secret of how to keep the flat earth a secret from the entire planet. Kim would love to have that kind of power to fool people and lie so effectively.

North Korea has no beans. Sad.

Quote from: Ski on April 28, 2021, 09:39:59 PM

Where would you expect to hear this? On the news?

No, more like a firsthand anonymous account from an actual employee who finally want to reveal whatever truth they may hold

Where would you expect to stumble across this?

I guess North Korea is part of the conspiracy now, as they are 'faking' their satellite launches just like NASA.

If I rob a bank and you rob another, we are not co-conspirators.

Quote from: JJA on May 01, 2021, 06:06:25 PM

I guess North Korea is part of the conspiracy now, as they are 'faking' their satellite launches just like NASA.

If I rob a bank and you rob another, we are not co-conspirators.

But, if we are robbing the same bank at the same time...  we may not have entered together but we would have to cooperate if we both wish to actually rob said bank without the bank patrons figuring it out. 

It's not the same bank. It's just the same methodology.

Quote from: JJA on May 01, 2021, 06:06:25 PM

I guess North Korea is part of the conspiracy now, as they are 'faking' their satellite launches just like NASA.

If I rob a bank and you rob another, we are not co-conspirators.

That's a terrible analogy. What one robber does at one bank has nothing to do with what another does elsewhere.

The question is how come zero countries are blowing the whistle on this worldwide space conspiracy?

Not a single country has admitted their space program is fake. Not a single one has mentioned they tried to launch rockets but hit the dome. No country has accused others of lying about the shape of the Earth. Curious.

There isn't a single thing that every country in the world agrees on... except this one conspiracy. How convenient.

It's not the same bank. It's just the same methodology.

It is the same bank.
In this analogy, the bank is Earth and the space around it.

Not a single country has admitted their space program is fake.

May as well say, "Not a single suspect has admitted to robbing a bank", yet beyond that, it is hardly inconceivable that "the country" is the bank, unaware of the fraud.

It's not the same bank. It's just the same methodology.

Same supposed lie, same supposed motive, ie same bank. 
Stupid analogy.  Wrong, and really really stupid.

Your incomprehension doesn't make something wrong.

Your incomprehension doesn't make something wrong.

I comprehend just fine, your failure to understand how to use analogies is epic though

Quote from: JJA on May 16, 2021, 03:44:19 PM

Not a single country has admitted their space program is fake.

May as well say, "Not a single suspect has admitted to robbing a bank", yet beyond that, it is hardly inconceivable that "the country" is the bank, unaware of the fraud.

Again, that analogy makes no sense at all. It's probably the worst analogy I've ever seen.

You seem to be trying to avoid directly addressing the issue here, that no country has ever admitted they faked their entire space program, and no country has accused anyone with a space program of having faked it.

Either every single contrary is somehow part of the conspiracy, or they are all completely fooled. And every time one of them makes a space program and finds that it doesn't work, they join the conspiracy and lie about it.

You can see how absurd that is.  It makes no sense at all.  Who is controlling this vast conspiracy? Who gets new countries to join it?

You can try and deflect by talking about how bank robbers don't confess, whatever that has to do with anything, but that's just avoiding the elephant in the room here. That you can't explain why this massive, worldwide conspiracy exists. Or show any evidence that it does.

You seem to be trying to avoid directly addressing the issue here, that no country has ever admitted they faked their entire space program, and no country has accused anyone with a space program of having faked it.

Why on earth would you expect them to?

Quote from: JJA

You seem to be trying to avoid directly addressing the issue here, that no country has ever admitted they faked their entire space program, and no country has accused anyone with a space program of having faked it.

Why on earth would you expect them to?

You think if Australia discovered the entire space industry was fake and a massive worldwide fraud and conspiracy, they would just keep quiet about it?  What possible reason would they have?  Why on earth would you expect them to join the conspiracy?  Do they get a gift basket for joining?

There are a dozen countries with active space programs.   You think they all tried to get to space, failed, and just started lying about it?  All  of them?  All the space agency employees, all the government officials involved.  They just decided to have a massive cover up, every time.

Sorry, that's just insanity.

Quote from: Ski on May 17, 2021, 05:51:58 PM

Quote from: JJA

You seem to be trying to avoid directly addressing the issue here, that no country has ever admitted they faked their entire space program, and no country has accused anyone with a space program of having faked it.

Why on earth would you expect them to?

You think if Australia discovered the entire space industry was fake and a massive worldwide fraud and conspiracy, they would just keep quiet about it?  What possible reason would they have?  Why on earth would you expect them to join the conspiracy?  Do they get a gift basket for joining?

I'm ashamed to admit but Australia is just another arm of the USA. Everything our government does is at their behest

That's why our fat arse PM tried to be best buds with Trump. That's why our fat arse PM is antagonising our biggest and most important trading partner, China. Even talking about a war with them

Australia also has a facility 'Pine Gap' which is critical to Americas spying operations in the Pacific

God damn America

If you are always at war with your neighbours you don't start handing tea and biscuits over the fence to each other and you certainly do not go on holiday together, nor have sleep overs.

However, if you're all in bed together then what happens in that bed, stays in that bed.

If you are always at war with your neighbours you don't start handing tea and biscuits over the fence to each other and you certainly do not go on holiday together, nor have sleep overs.

However, if you're all in bed together then what happens in that bed, stays in that bed.

By that argument, Russia & China should have outed NASA decades ago. Strangely, that didn't happen.

Quote from: JJA on May 17, 2021, 06:12:40 PM

Quote from: Ski on May 17, 2021, 05:51:58 PM

Quote from: JJA

You seem to be trying to avoid directly addressing the issue here, that no country has ever admitted they faked their entire space program, and no country has accused anyone with a space program of having faked it.

Why on earth would you expect them to?

You think if Australia discovered the entire space industry was fake and a massive worldwide fraud and conspiracy, they would just keep quiet about it?  What possible reason would they have?  Why on earth would you expect them to join the conspiracy?  Do they get a gift basket for joining?

I'm ashamed to admit but Australia is just another arm of the USA. Everything our government does is at their behest

That's why our fat arse PM tried to be best buds with Trump. That's why our fat arse PM is antagonising our biggest and most important trading partner, China. Even talking about a war with them

Australia also has a facility 'Pine Gap' which is critical to Americas spying operations in the Pacific

God damn America

To say nothing of the operations at Woomera and the influence of the Crown. You'd think nations never cooperate or keep secrets.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 17, 2021, 10:59:48 PM

If you are always at war with your neighbours you don't start handing tea and biscuits over the fence to each other and you certainly do not go on holiday together, nor have sleep overs.

However, if you're all in bed together then what happens in that bed, stays in that bed.

By that argument, Russia & China should have outed NASA decades ago. Strangely, that didn't happen.

"The Soviets and US would never cooperate at the height of the Cold War", said the historically illiterate.



I'm the Premier of the Soviet Union. The US has just said they're going to start sending men to the moon. I tell the head of the Kosmicheskaya program, "Hey, tovarisch -- we can't let those nekulturny bastards beat us to space! Get to work." 

I don't know how space travel works (or doesn't work, as it were). The head of the Kosmicheskaya, being very cunning says, "Well, sure, but it's going to cost a lot of rubles." So we give it to them and they use some of it and graft from the balance. Then they say, "We've had some technical problems. If we're going to beat the US we're going to need even more rubles. We don't want them to beat us do we?"  And I say, "Hooy na ny! Ty chyo, blya? Here's some more scratch -- I want results!"

Incidentally, when the Soviets "delayed" too long and NASA beat them to the moon, the Premier pulled the plug financially. So they came up with new goals. Like SpaceLab/Mir, etc.  And the game continues as they fake progress and keep the balance... Now they're all working together on the ISS -- how convenient!