Elon Musk kills another 2 people

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Wolvaccine

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Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« on: April 19, 2021, 05:07:28 AM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/business/tesla-fatal-crash-texas.html

Quote
Two men were killed in Texas after a Tesla they were in crashed on Saturday and caught fire with neither of the men behind the wheel, the authorities said.

Mark Herman, the Harris County Precinct 4 constable, said that physical evidence from the scene and interviews with witnesses led officials “to believe no one was driving the vehicle at the time of the crash.”

The vehicle, a 2019 Model S, was going at a “high rate of speed” around a curve at 11:25 p.m. local time when it went off the road about 100 feet and hit a tree, Constable Herman said. The crash occurred in a residential area in the Woodlands, an area about 30 miles north of Houston.

The men were 59 and 69 years old. One was in the front passenger seat and one in the rear seat, Constable Herman said.

He said that minutes before the crash, the men’s wives watched them leave in the Tesla after they said they wanted to go for a drive and were talking about the vehicle’s Autopilot feature.

Normally, I would say they were dickheads because they were not behind the wheel but in Teslas case, it is an advertised feature so this should have been 'OK'

I still dont understand the allure of Teslas or driverless cars in general. Take a damn bus if you dont want to do the driving. Why pay all that extra money but remove the whole experience and control of the vehicle and delegate it to a stupid computer chip?

Changing the gears, hearing the roar or purr of a motor. The WHOOSH of a BOV..... Man, why pay 10x the cost for a car that has zero noise and drives its self removing your control

My friend lives 1200km away. If I want to drive to see him, I could leave before breakfast and be there at dinner. I could do it all on a single tank of fuel as well (65L of diesel). Now if he wanted to see me, not only would he have to take a very scenic route to cater for special recharging stations so a much longer journey, if he left before breakfast he may arrive to me by lunch time the next day having to sleep a night somewhere. (unless he sleeps in the car that's accommodation cost added lol!) He better hope he's the only one using the charging stations otherwise it will be very slow to recharge. Where I can fill up in 5 minutes, he might be stuck for hours. And only to chug him maybe another 400km.

What a fucking waste of $250K. I paid $13K for mine. He brags 'haha, I dont have to pay for fuel'. LOL With the initial expense of $250K That's more than a 150 years worth of fuel cost compared to mine in 1 hit. Worst case I pay $1500 a year in fuel. And my car isn't so precious I need to bother with full insurance on it either. Another cost I'm sure he would have to do and would be quite costly lol

In short, Teslas are not only shitty death traps, but they are much slower to go long distance, are boring as hell and ridiculously expensive. Their environmental credentials are also questionable given the rare precious mineral of lithium required for mass production but I'm sure Elon doesn't mind 3rd world countries children helping to mine it for him




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JJA

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2021, 05:17:57 AM »
My friend lives 1200km away. If I want to drive to see him, I could leave before breakfast and be there at dinner. I could do it all on a single polluting spewing tank of fuel as well (65L of diesel). Now if he wanted to see me, not only would he have to take a very scenic route to avoid highways since bicycles can't use them, so a much longer journey, if he left before breakfast he may arrive to me by lunch time the next week having to sleep several nights somewhere.

So LOLCOPTER bicycles are stupid and anyone who uses one is a dumb-dumb because you can't possibly ever live a life or be in a situation where a bicycle might be the right choice for you and I hate them cause you know, bad spaceman. I read someone died on a bicycle, so they are death traps too. My way if life is best and anyone who chooses otherwise offends me and is wrong.

Luddite. :P

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2021, 05:37:18 AM »
My friend lives 1200km away. If I want to drive to see him, I could leave before breakfast and be there at dinner. I could do it all on a single polluting spewing tank of fuel as well (65L of diesel). Now if he wanted to see me, not only would he have to take a very scenic route to avoid highways since bicycles can't use them, so a much longer journey, if he left before breakfast he may arrive to me by lunch time the next week having to sleep several nights somewhere.

So LOLCOPTER bicycles are stupid and anyone who uses one is a dumb-dumb because you can't possibly ever live a life or be in a situation where a bicycle might be the right choice for you and I hate them cause you know, bad spaceman. I read someone died on a bicycle, so they are death traps too. My way if life is best and anyone who chooses otherwise offends me and is wrong.

Luddite. :P

Triggered much?

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JJA

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2021, 05:48:04 AM »
My friend lives 1200km away. If I want to drive to see him, I could leave before breakfast and be there at dinner. I could do it all on a single polluting spewing tank of fuel as well (65L of diesel). Now if he wanted to see me, not only would he have to take a very scenic route to avoid highways since bicycles can't use them, so a much longer journey, if he left before breakfast he may arrive to me by lunch time the next week having to sleep several nights somewhere.

So LOLCOPTER bicycles are stupid and anyone who uses one is a dumb-dumb because you can't possibly ever live a life or be in a situation where a bicycle might be the right choice for you and I hate them cause you know, bad spaceman. I read someone died on a bicycle, so they are death traps too. My way if life is best and anyone who chooses otherwise offends me and is wrong.

Luddite. :P

Triggered much?

I hate to ruin your day as I know triggering people is the reason you troll.  I just can't resist making sarcastic responses.  It's too much fun.

Spaceman bad!  ;D

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2021, 05:52:30 AM »
My friend lives 1200km away. If I want to drive to see him, I could leave before breakfast and be there at dinner. I could do it all on a single polluting spewing tank of fuel as well (65L of diesel). Now if he wanted to see me, not only would he have to take a very scenic route to avoid highways since bicycles can't use them, so a much longer journey, if he left before breakfast he may arrive to me by lunch time the next week having to sleep several nights somewhere.

So LOLCOPTER bicycles are stupid and anyone who uses one is a dumb-dumb because you can't possibly ever live a life or be in a situation where a bicycle might be the right choice for you and I hate them cause you know, bad spaceman. I read someone died on a bicycle, so they are death traps too. My way if life is best and anyone who chooses otherwise offends me and is wrong.

Luddite. :P

Triggered much?

I hate to ruin your day as I know triggering people is the reason you troll.  I just can't resist making sarcastic responses.  It's too much fun.

Spaceman bad!  ;D

Elon Musk is not a space man. He's a pussy that wouldn't dare enter his own vehicle to go to space because he knows it's a POS that will crash and burn like everything he makes

Still, the title of this thread is that your hero and lover has killed another 2 people with his shitty cars. Elon Musk is indeed a bad man, just not a space man. Not sure why you keep calling a man that has never been to space a 'space man'. Your hero worship of the loser is noted

Let me ask you this.... If you were given a Tesla, would you feel comfortable using the 'autopilot' feature?

Also do you think the lack of any sound is bad for a heavy and high speed vehicle?

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JJA

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2021, 06:04:22 AM »
Let me ask you this.... If you were given a Tesla, would you feel comfortable using the 'autopilot' feature?

Let me ask you this, would you rather share the road with autopilot vehicles or drunk drivers?

To answer your question, yes. The risk of dying in a Tesla autopilot accident is still very small, and I'd be helping make the road safer for everyone by helping advance the technology. Eventually autopilot cars WILL be safer than humans and we can drastically reduce car related deaths. If I was terrified of doing things that had a small, but non-zero risk of death I'd never get in a car again.

Also do you think the lack of any sound is bad for a heavy and high speed vehicle?

No need for fake engine sound on a high speed heavy vehicle, it's going to be making plenty of noise, wheels are loud. So that's not bad.

Now a slow moving silent car? That's bad, and I think electric cars should have a mandated fake engine noise. I drive one and I have to be VERY careful in parking lots because people simply can't hear me, they walk right in front of me all the time. I'd be much happier if it made noises, even if it's cool to be a stealth car.



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markjo

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2021, 06:12:34 AM »
... but in Teslas case, it is an advertised feature...
Citation please.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2021, 06:14:24 AM »
Let me ask you this.... If you were given a Tesla, would you feel comfortable using the 'autopilot' feature?

Let me ask you this, would you rather share the road with autopilot vehicles or drunk drivers?

To answer your question, yes. The risk of dying in a Tesla autopilot accident is still very small, and I'd be helping make the road safer for everyone by helping advance the technology. Eventually autopilot cars WILL be safer than humans and we can drastically reduce car related deaths. If I was terrified of doing things that had a small, but non-zero risk of death I'd never get in a car again.

Also do you think the lack of any sound is bad for a heavy and high speed vehicle?

No need for fake engine sound on a high speed heavy vehicle, it's going to be making plenty of noise, wheels are loud. So that's not bad.

Now a slow moving silent car? That's bad, and I think electric cars should have a mandated fake engine noise. I drive one and I have to be VERY careful in parking lots because people simply can't hear me, they walk right in front of me all the time. I'd be much happier if it made noises, even if it's cool to be a stealth car.

I'd rather share the road with humans in control. Auto pilot is an ok feature if on long stretches of free/high ways. Would not want it in the city. If there is technology that detects whether someone is sitting in their seat and not wearing a seatbelt the same should be true of auto pilot. You should not be able to enable autopilot and sit in the back seat. You should be ready to take over at a moments notice. If that was a thing, I'd have no issues, but trusting a computer chip to drive me around in a 1+ tonne vehicle at high speed - no thanks. It has no fear of death or the concept of self preservation

Also, I like being in control. I absolutely loathe automatic cars. They never seem to get the gear I want when negotiating a turn right. I'm always waiting for it to kick in and when it does, its not what I would have chosen.

The lack of sound generated seems to be a pretty big oversight in terms of safety. Think hearing impaired people or even vision impaired people. I think there are things you can do to make your Tesla sound like a V8 though but that would just look silly. A cool sounding hum or whine would do

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2021, 06:15:07 AM »
... but in Teslas case, it is an advertised feature...
Citation please.

https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/autopilot

Did you not know Tesla has an auto pilot feature?

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markjo

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2021, 06:18:20 AM »
... but in Teslas case, it is an advertised feature...
Citation please.

https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/autopilot

Did you not know Tesla has an auto pilot feature?
Did you not know that the auto pilot feature is not a full self driving feature?
Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2021, 06:21:14 AM »
... but in Teslas case, it is an advertised feature...
Citation please.

https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/autopilot

Did you not know Tesla has an auto pilot feature?
Did you not know that the auto pilot feature is not a full self driving feature?
Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous.

And yet, people can just chill in the backseat why the car takes over. How simple would it be to ensure that someone is sitting in the drivers seat for the feature to activate

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what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

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markjo

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2021, 06:37:10 AM »
And yet, people can just chill in the backseat why the car takes over. How simple would it be to ensure that someone is sitting in the drivers seat for the feature to activate
Perhaps you didn't read the Darwin subroutine for taking stupid people out of the gene pool.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2021, 06:42:54 AM »
And yet, people can just chill in the backseat why the car takes over. How simple would it be to ensure that someone is sitting in the drivers seat for the feature to activate
Perhaps you didn't read the Darwin subroutine for taking stupid people out of the gene pool.

lol, okay, I'll pay that.

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what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2021, 07:06:33 AM »
... but in Teslas case, it is an advertised feature...
Citation please.

https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/autopilot

Did you not know Tesla has an auto pilot feature?
Did you not know that the auto pilot feature is not a full self driving feature?

Err...expect they are literally branding the product as Full Self Driving:

Quote
There are two Autopilot packages available for purchase: Autopilot and Full Self-Driving Capability.

Quote
Full Self-Driving Capability
All new Tesla cars have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat.

Yes, they are including the usual caveats, but maybe they shouldn't be selling a product that isn't self driving as "Full Self Driving"?
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2021, 01:39:23 PM »


Tesla cars end up no different to Space X rockets. Crashed and burnt

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2021, 02:02:14 PM »
Musk is selling prototypes and convincing people they're finished products. We're probably a good few years or decades from what he's proposing actually being feasible for public consumption. He's just also able to sell people on the allure of his sci-fi technology, even when the reality is so pathetically substandard that it wouldn't be remotely acceptable if he wasn't able to veil it behind the promise of something that might, one day, actually be decent.

There's no point defending his shtick. Elon isn't gonna fuck you.

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markjo

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2021, 02:12:42 PM »
Quote
Full Self-Driving Capability
All new Tesla cars have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat.

Yes, they are including the usual caveats, but maybe they shouldn't be selling a product that isn't self driving as "Full Self Driving"?
They said that the new cars have the hardware needed.  They didn't say that the software was ready yet.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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markjo

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2021, 02:15:03 PM »
Musk is selling prototypes and convincing people they're finished products.
Or, maybe it's the customers that are convincing themselves that they're buying finished products.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2021, 02:16:57 PM »
Musk is selling prototypes and convincing people they're finished products.
Or, maybe it's the customers that are convincing themselves that they're buying finished products.
If that many customers believe the same lie, maybe there's a problem with the one doing the advertising and selling, hm?

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Crouton

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2021, 02:32:47 PM »
Full disclosure, as a Tesla owner I'm required to defend Elon Musk at all times.

Regarding this incident, I'm not defending it but we don't really know what happened here yet.  The autopilot system requires someone to sit in the drivers seat and sort of pay attention.  There wasn't anyone in the drivers seat.  Maybe it was on autopilot and someone defeated the requirements.  Maybe they were trying some very weird stunt where they were steering it from the passenger side.  I sure as hell wouldn't trust a feature labeled as "beta" with my life but for all we know these two did something incredibly stupid that caused this wreck.
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markjo

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2021, 02:37:02 PM »
I think that part of the problem is that the autopilot feature works so well that people forget that it's still a beta and not fully autonomous.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Crouton

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2021, 02:46:35 PM »
I think that part of the problem is that the autopilot feature works so well that people forget that it's still a beta and not fully autonomous.

I seriously doubt that.  I rarely use autopilot and when I do it's mostly to remind me as to why I don't use autopilot.

I'm baffled by these people that use it on a regular basis.  It's somewhat useful for freeway driving under normal conditions but not much else.
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Crouton

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2021, 02:59:03 PM »
Elon Musk's twitter feed.
https://publish.twitter.com/?query=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Felonmusk%2Fstatus%2F1384254194975010826&widget=Tweet

Quote
Data logs recovered so far show Autopilot was not enabled & this car did not purchase FSD.

Moreover, standard Autopilot would require lane lines to turn on, which this street did not have.



So unless he's lying about this, no, autopilot didn't kill these people.
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markjo

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2021, 03:08:36 PM »
I'm baffled by these people that use it on a regular basis. 
I'm sure that you're equally baffled by people who think that the earth is round. ;)
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2021, 03:21:47 PM »
Elon Musk's twitter feed.
https://publish.twitter.com/?query=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Felonmusk%2Fstatus%2F1384254194975010826&widget=Tweet

Quote
Data logs recovered so far show Autopilot was not enabled & this car did not purchase FSD.

Moreover, standard Autopilot would require lane lines to turn on, which this street did not have.



So unless he's lying about this, no, autopilot didn't kill these people.

The news report said these people were found in the back seat though? Did they just put a brick on the accelerator then climb into the back and chill out?

Also what if your on a street with lane lines, you engage auto pilot, be an idiot and climb into the back seat and then the lane lines end....

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Crouton

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2021, 03:52:18 PM »
Also what if your on a street with lane lines, you engage auto pilot, be an idiot and climb into the back seat and then the lane lines end....

Those are questions we don't know the answer to about this incident.  About the only thing we can rule out is an autopilot error. 

It's also possible that the Rapture occurred and the driver of this vehicle was the only one taken away.

Also what if your on a street with lane lines, you engage auto pilot, be an idiot and climb into the back seat and then the lane lines end....

The system starts getting really annoying with a bunch of bells and warnings and eventually stops the car and turns on the hazard lights.
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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2021, 01:44:30 AM »
So unless he's lying about this, no, autopilot didn't kill these people.
Well, he definitely lies.  However there is a plausible theory that there was nobody in the front has they were trapped in the car and climbed into the back in panic trying to escape the raging battery fire.

Which is really grim, but makes sense.
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markjo

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2021, 06:25:46 AM »
So unless he's lying about this, no, autopilot didn't kill these people.
Well, he definitely lies.  However there is a plausible theory that there was nobody in the front has they were trapped in the car and climbed into the back in panic trying to escape the raging battery fire.

Which is really grim, but makes sense.
Not if you know where the battery pack in the Model S is located.


If there was no one in the driver seat, then what makes most sense is that they were doing something really stupid with the car.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Crouton

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2021, 07:17:24 AM »
So unless he's lying about this, no, autopilot didn't kill these people.
Well, he definitely lies.  However there is a plausible theory that there was nobody in the front has they were trapped in the car and climbed into the back in panic trying to escape the raging battery fire.

Which is really grim, but makes sense.

Oh I agree he lies.  Elon Musk is kind of a dipshit.  But these victims had families and Tesla's software were to blame them it would be trivially easy for them to prove that autopilot was available on this car.

So unless he's lying about this, no, autopilot didn't kill these people.
Well, he definitely lies.  However there is a plausible theory that there was nobody in the front has they were trapped in the car and climbed into the back in panic trying to escape the raging battery fire.

Which is really grim, but makes sense.
Not if you know where the battery pack in the Model S is located.


If there was no one in the driver seat, then what makes most sense is that they were doing something really stupid with the car.



It makes sense that they'd try to get in the back if it was a head on collision.  The way these packs catch fire it looks like it starts at the point of impact and then slowly spreads. 

I'm starting to think these investigators maybe aren't making much of an effort.  They said they're sure no one was driving because you can't get into the back seat from the front?  This is definitely false.  The front seats are bucket seats and there's more than enough space between them for an adult to get through.



https://people.com/human-interest/2-men-killed-in-tesla-crash-texas-car-on-autopilot/
Quote
Herman also told KHOU that investigators "are 100 percent certain that no one was in the driver seat driving that vehicle at the time of impact. They are positive. The height from the back seat to the front seat, that would be almost impossible."

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Re: Elon Musk kills another 2 people
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2021, 08:06:07 AM »
The investigator says he has witness statements that the blokes were telling people they were going to show off their autopilot...might turn out to be rubbish as well.

Guess we will wait and see.
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