How can the earth be forever accelerating

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How can the earth be forever accelerating
« on: February 23, 2021, 04:47:08 AM »
How can the earth be forever accelerating if we can't go past the speed of light?

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boydster

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Re: How can the earth be forever accelerating
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2021, 05:22:34 AM »
First and foremost, I'd urge you to stop making new threads about whatever question pops into your head, and instead use the search function to see if a topic has been discussed extensively already.

Second, do you realize that not all FE models discussed at this site invoke Universal Acceleration?

Third, what makes you think something can't accelerate forever without exceeding c?

Re: How can the earth be forever accelerating
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2021, 06:19:17 AM »
First and foremost, I'd urge you to stop making new threads about whatever question pops into your head, and instead use the search function to see if a topic has been discussed extensively already.

Second, do you realize that not all FE models discussed at this site invoke Universal Acceleration?

Third, what makes you think something can't accelerate forever without exceeding c?
1.Sry didn't know there was a search feature.

2.Well, earth would have to reach the speed of light at somepoint seeing as it would be always accelerating. How can something accelerate and not reach a higher velocity.

3.How does gravity exist in the flat earth if not acceleration?

4.I now realize that this is not the correct way to ask what I wanted. I was more concerned about where does the energy come from? It would take a massive amount of energy to keep accelerating.

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Eren

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Re: How can the earth be forever accelerating
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2021, 06:24:45 AM »
I think special relativity has an explanation for this actually. Doesn't time slow down the closer you approach the speed of light?

In theory you could accelerate forever.

Jack Black is very knowledgeable he might be able to explain it. Unfortunately all I would be able to do is copy and paste something.

https://www.britannica.com/science/time-dilation

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boydster

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Re: How can the earth be forever accelerating
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2021, 06:35:07 AM »
2. Also, I can say that for just about anything. A flat disc accelerating endlessly through space at more than the speed of light (physicallly impossible), that's one hell of a theory

Was this the question you wanted me to answer?

This has been answers many times by both flat earthers and globe earthers alike and they are all in agreement that despite the forever acceleration, it will never reach the speed of light from any perspective

ďAllĒ being a handful of people active on this forum, you mean.  Iím not sure that counts as being universally accepted.  I donít want to derail this thread though, just wanted to point out that people who most understand special relativity probably havenít even thought about this particular case.

Pulling this quote in from the other thread for a proper response. People that have studied SR have addressed this question. Since there is no preferred FoR, an object's instantaneous velocity can be taken to be 0 m/s. Light is still measured moving away from an observer in that frame at c. An outside observer might view things differently, depending on their motion relative to the in-frame observer (they might, for example, see relativistic effects like the first observer's acceleration appearing to slow down etc), but if we're talking about what someone would experience in a rocket forever accelerating at 1G or on a flat disc forever going upwards at 1G, the outside perspective hardly matters.

Go back to the rocket for a moment, and let's say it cut its engine after a period of acceleration. It's now no longer accelerating, it no longer feels any force from acceleration, it's effectively at rest now - to someone on the rocket, it feels no different than if it were moving 0 m/s, even though it accelerated and never decelerated. And when it goes to start accelerating again, because there is no preferred FoR for the universe, it begins accelerating just like it did when the rocket first set out - at a steady 1G. Because this is a thought experiment rocket, it can do this start/stop routine as many times as it wants - let's say it stops for a short length of time, then a shorter length, again and again. But each time, it resumes traveling at 1G again. Well, each time it stops accelerating (still never decelerating), it is again effectively at rest. As that rest length approaches 0, the rocket's acceleration approaches a non-stop 1G.

This has nothing at all to do with whether the Earth is actually a flat disc accelerating upwards. But it has everything to do with people showing up and declaring that some object can't accelerate forever because it would exceed c. An observer on said object can always take their instantaneous velocity to be 0, and when they check their velocity compared to c they will always and forever find they are traveling at a whopping 0% of c (that's why it's called invariant), and as long as the force being applied to cause the acceleration doesn't change, the acceleration also won't change. An outside observer might very well see that the object appears to them to be accelerating less and less and it asymptotically approaches c, but that observer is irrelevant to the conversation.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: How can the earth be forever accelerating
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2021, 07:23:15 AM »
The speed of light is 299,792,458 metres per second (in a vacuum)

When you drive a car (pretend in a vacuum) at 80km/h (22.22m/s) and you turn your headlights on, the light from your car isn't going to go 299,792,480 m/s. It will leave your car at the speed of light. Even if you were going 299,792,457 metres per second and turn the headlights on. From your reference, the light from your headlights still move away from you at the speed of light

Without pretending to talk about this as if I'm an expert, we'll just throw in some buzz words from every sci fi trope like 'time dilation', 'quantum' and 'sub space' 8)

An infinitely accelerating flat disc would follow the same rules. Never exceeding the speed of light

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Re: How can the earth be forever accelerating
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2021, 08:57:37 AM »
2. Also, I can say that for just about anything. A flat disc accelerating endlessly through space at more than the speed of light (physicallly impossible), that's one hell of a theory

Was this the question you wanted me to answer?

This has been answers many times by both flat earthers and globe earthers alike and they are all in agreement that despite the forever acceleration, it will never reach the speed of light from any perspective

ďAllĒ being a handful of people active on this forum, you mean.  Iím not sure that counts as being universally accepted.  I donít want to derail this thread though, just wanted to point out that people who most understand special relativity probably havenít even thought about this particular case.

Pulling this quote in from the other thread for a proper response. People that have studied SR have addressed this question. Since there is no preferred FoR, an object's instantaneous velocity can be taken to be 0 m/s. Light is still measured moving away from an observer in that frame at c. An outside observer might view things differently, depending on their motion relative to the in-frame observer (they might, for example, see relativistic effects like the first observer's acceleration appearing to slow down etc), but if we're talking about what someone would experience in a rocket forever accelerating at 1G or on a flat disc forever going upwards at 1G, the outside perspective hardly matters.

Go back to the rocket for a moment, and let's say it cut its engine after a period of acceleration. It's now no longer accelerating, it no longer feels any force from acceleration, it's effectively at rest now - to someone on the rocket, it feels no different than if it were moving 0 m/s, even though it accelerated and never decelerated. And when it goes to start accelerating again, because there is no preferred FoR for the universe, it begins accelerating just like it did when the rocket first set out - at a steady 1G. Because this is a thought experiment rocket, it can do this start/stop routine as many times as it wants - let's say it stops for a short length of time, then a shorter length, again and again. But each time, it resumes traveling at 1G again. Well, each time it stops accelerating (still never decelerating), it is again effectively at rest. As that rest length approaches 0, the rocket's acceleration approaches a non-stop 1G.

This has nothing at all to do with whether the Earth is actually a flat disc accelerating upwards. But it has everything to do with people showing up and declaring that some object can't accelerate forever because it would exceed c. An observer on said object can always take their instantaneous velocity to be 0, and when they check their velocity compared to c they will always and forever find they are traveling at a whopping 0% of c (that's why it's called invariant), and as long as the force being applied to cause the acceleration doesn't change, the acceleration also won't change. An outside observer might very well see that the object appears to them to be accelerating less and less and it asymptotically approaches c, but that observer is irrelevant to the conversation.

I agree, based on my limited understanding of the topic.  I was just pointing out that people here agreeing on something doesnít necessarily mean all that much.

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boydster

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Re: How can the earth be forever accelerating
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2021, 09:30:27 AM »
I agree, based on my limited understanding of the topic.  I was just pointing out that people here agreeing on something doesnít necessarily mean all that much.
That's exactly why I was pointing out that it's not just people here agreeing though - it's a question that has been addressed by very well educated people on the subject. I'll paste a link below that talks specifically about a rocket that, for anyone on board, is accelerating at a constant 1G and discusses how it would be perceived from a couple different frames of reference. (There are, of course, plenty of other references available on the internet, Google is your friend, yada yada yada and so on...)

https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/Rocket/rocket.html


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Mikey T.

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Re: How can the earth be forever accelerating
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2021, 10:29:27 AM »
Easy there tiger, don't make me defend boyd...
Search, this topic was up not 2 weeks ago for the millionth time.  There are actual arguments that do align with physics that show this acceleration to lightspeed in x amount of time can't work therefore it's false is a strawman argument.   There are so many other arguments that can stand on their own against UA. 

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JackBlack

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Re: How can the earth be forever accelerating
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2021, 12:07:46 PM »
The same way you can continually add numbers without exceeding a finite value.
For example:
1+1/2+1/4+1/8 and so on.
The sum continues to increase but at a decreasing rate.

If you continue this sum, no matter how many terms you add, you will never exceed 2. The number continually gets larger, but never exceeds 2.

For the specific example of a FE accelerating upwards to produce mostly the effects of gravity, it is the proper acceleration that remains constant, i.e. the acceleration as observed at any given moment in an inertial reference frame initially moving with the object in that moment. For this its velocity will always be 0.

For an observer in an external reference frame, as the object accelerates time dilation and the like result in the rate of acceleration decreasing. i.e. a constant proper acceleration will result in an outside observer measuring the rate of acceleration to decrease, such that the velocity approaches but never exceeds the speed of light.

Re: How can the earth be forever accelerating
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2021, 07:52:46 AM »
The speed of light is 299,792,458 metres per second (in a vacuum)

When you drive a car (pretend in a vacuum) at 80km/h (22.22m/s) and you turn your headlights on, the light from your car isn't going to go 299,792,480 m/s. It will leave your car at the speed of light. Even if you were going 299,792,457 metres per second and turn the headlights on. From your reference, the light from your headlights still move away from you at the speed of light

Without pretending to talk about this as if I'm an expert, we'll just throw in some buzz words from every sci-fi trope like 'time dilation', 'quantum' and 'sub space' 8)

An infinitely accelerating flat disc would follow the same rules. Never exceeding the speed of light
This doesn't answer the question. This a way for light to travel in the accelerating earth.
I have seen a very good answer on how time dilation would allow us to accelerate forever.

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Heavenly Breeze

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Re: How can the earth be forever accelerating
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2021, 11:45:36 AM »
If the earth is accelerating all the time, then the sun and the moon must keep up with us in order to hang in the sky all the time.
But the masses are different near the earth and the sun - the question is, how does the physics of acceleration work then?
The earth believes, because magic exists!

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Heavenly Breeze

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Re: How can the earth be forever accelerating
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2021, 11:49:14 AM »
I agree, based on my limited understanding of the topic.  I was just pointing out that people here agreeing on something doesnít necessarily mean all that much.
That's exactly why I was pointing out that it's not just people here agreeing though - it's a question that has been addressed by very well educated people on the subject. I'll paste a link below that talks specifically about a rocket that, for anyone on board, is accelerating at a constant 1G and discusses how it would be perceived from a couple different frames of reference. (There are, of course, plenty of other references available on the internet, Google is your friend, yada yada yada and so on...)

https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/Rocket/rocket.html


Do you think that the earth is connected with the dome by a force field that envelops all visible space like a bubble?
The earth believes, because magic exists!

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boydster

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Re: How can the earth be forever accelerating
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2021, 02:15:47 PM »
I agree, based on my limited understanding of the topic.  I was just pointing out that people here agreeing on something doesnít necessarily mean all that much.
That's exactly why I was pointing out that it's not just people here agreeing though - it's a question that has been addressed by very well educated people on the subject. I'll paste a link below that talks specifically about a rocket that, for anyone on board, is accelerating at a constant 1G and discusses how it would be perceived from a couple different frames of reference. (There are, of course, plenty of other references available on the internet, Google is your friend, yada yada yada and so on...)

https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/Rocket/rocket.html


Do you think that the earth is connected with the dome by a force field that envelops all visible space like a bubble?
I do not.

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Danang

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Re: How can the earth be forever accelerating
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2021, 11:46:38 PM »
How can the earth be forever accelerating if we can't go past the speed of light?

c cannot be reach is superstitious.
ē South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
ē Downwards Universal Deceleration.

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