You may not be understanding me. The conclusion that gravity is purely mathematical and non-real (or "dismissing it as fake" as you would crudely describe it) is not really relevant to the point - it is an aside.
Then why make it at all?
The point is that you can measure the behavior of gas, and we have done so. When we do so we find that gravity, if such a force there be, does not play a role.
Only if you don't bother looking at a significant height differential.
The point I made clearly shows that gravity does play a significant role for fluids.
The gas laws are well established
Yes, and that includes those about pressure gradients in fluids due gravity.
What you are claiming is refuted by the simple fact that air pressure varies with altitude, as does the pressure of any fluid.
If you want to claim the gas laws require a container, you need to explain why you don't need a separator for that pressure gradient.
The fact we don't need a separator for that pressure gradient shows that your claim that Earth must be contained is unsupported.
The ONLY time gas behaves in ways contrary to those established by science
is NEVER!
You only pretend it does to dismiss the RE.
Likewise, you not understanding/appreciating the distinction between the measurement of weight (trivial/commonplace), or the measurement of time (trivial/commonplace) for a weight to fall, the measurement of apparent attraction between some test masses (trivial/commonplace), and the measurement of gravitation (not possible, in any sense) is not opinion based
I would say that it isn't opinion based and that you are simply wrong due to you pretending that measurement of gravitation is magically not measurement of gravity and trying to pretend it is impossible.
But for this thread, all you need is weight.
In any case, it is irrelevant to the point.
Then stop bringing it up.
If the latter, go ahead and try
Sure, get 2 chambers (ball/bell jars) with two pressure gauges on them and a valve connecting them. The setup would likely be oriented vertically, and with a small diameter tube connecting them and the valve in the middle (to err on the side of helping gravity to do its trick where it prevents gas from filling the available volume as gas always does - it's scientific law!)
The top chamber will serve as "space" and should be as evacuated as possible. The lower chamber will serve as "earth's atmosphere" under the influence of "extreme gravity nearest to the surface".
So you did exactly what I told you not to.
Where is the ~ 10 000 kg per m^2 in this setup?
How about this, to simulate that, instead of a simple valve, have a tube. Have a piston in that tube which makes a seal against the wall and pushes down with a force equivalent to those 10 000 kg per m^2, i.e. roughly 1 atm.
Notice how the weight of the air above (simulated by the piston) contains the air below.
This shows gravity is just fine.
Make the second chamber any pressure lesser than the top chamber.
So how about the gradient expected due to gravity?
Why don't we increase the test to something more like the height of a mountain. Then we also don't need to bother with any kind of container.
We can measure that the pressure is lower the higher up you are, showing your claim is wrong.
When you remove the barrier between the chambers, sure as the sun will shine tomorrow, the pressure will equalize between the two chambers.
No, it won't.
There will still be a pressure gradient.
The air will more or less completely disregard gravity
"more or less" not actually.
Gravity will still have an effect. Gravity will still produce a pressure gradient.
Are you suggesting that the pressure outside the container is affecting the vacuum
No. I'm suggesting the 10 000 kg per m^2 of air is what is keeping the 1 atm of pressure contained.
The point is that it is easy to demonstrate that gas behavior (inside one or several vacuums) is consistent and does not accommodate/subordinate to gravity if such a thing there be. Gas always expands to fill its container as homogeneously/isotropically/isobarically as possible, and gravity does not prevent this property at any temperature or altitude/pressure we have ever studied.
The point is that claim of yours is pure fiction, based upon ignoring the normally miniscule pressure gradient with tiny set ups so you can ignore the real pressure gradient in the atmosphere over a much larger size.
Just like other FEers here you are ignoring small effects to pretend there is a problem.
@mikey t
So uhh, again how is gas pressure higher at lower altitudes.
Measured all the time, even by me.
Good question! The answer is : due to the gas' weight.
i.e. GRAVITY!
But regardless of what the answer is, it shows your claim is BS.
It shows that the gas isn't magically homogenous. There is a clear pressure gradient in direct defiance of your claim.
You are directly contradicting your claim that gas will fill a container as homogeneously/isotropically/isobarically as possible.
If you continue this pressure gradient you reach the pressure of interplanetary space, and if you keep going with that for the sun you reach it for interstellar space, and if you keep going with it for the milky way you reach the pressure of intergalactic space.
This pressure gradient shows that you DO NOT NEED A PHYSICAL CONTAINER!
However, there is no example (observational, nor contrived/experimental) of this.
Sure there is, the one you choose to ignore (and other similar ones).
The reason we don't have them all over the place is the height required.
But we do it with fluids all the time.
It is a bit like asking if you could swim on the top of the water effectively if there were no bottom to the pool (if the water were in free fall, for instance).
And the answer to that is yes.
Even the created pressure gradient (pascal's law) requires them
No it doesn't.
For an infinite expanse of a fluid on a hypothetical FE, it would still have that gradient, without any walls.
For a RE, you can have it cover the entire surface.
The only reason the container is needed for simple measurements is to stop the fluid spreading out. Having a round surface, like that of the RE, does that as well, with no walls. You don't even need a floor and can instead simply have a ball of that fluid. That will still have a pressure gradient.