Why Should We Go To Mars?

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2021, 06:18:33 AM »
The whole idea, once you get past the hype and the rich boys playing with their toys, of some independent colony on mars is ludicrous.
About 100 years of so ago, the notion of air travel becoming commonplace was little more than "hype and the rich boys playing with their toys", but look where we are now.
So? I don't see how that is relevant.    Where is there any actual equivalence?

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Granted, space colonies are several orders of magnitude more difficult, but I firmly believe that they are equally inevitable.
Well, you can have any belief you want.  And as it won't happen in our lifetimes, we'll never know who was right.

What is the point of a mars colony?  There is no economic case and anyone who goes will just die horribly in a dreadful hell hole. 

The moon at least has some potential economic benefits and you'd be able to get a return ticket, unlike mars.
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markjo

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2021, 06:49:11 AM »
The whole idea, once you get past the hype and the rich boys playing with their toys, of some independent colony on mars is ludicrous.
About 100 years of so ago, the notion of air travel becoming commonplace was little more than "hype and the rich boys playing with their toys", but look where we are now.
So? I don't see how that is relevant.    Where is there any actual equivalence?
Like air travel 100 years ago, manned space travel is still in its infancy and very expensive.  However, like air travel, the prices for manned space travel are coming down as more and more commercial space companies come on line.  Eventually the prices will come down so that manned space travel will no longer the sole domain for governments and the ultra rich.

What is the point of a mars colony?  There is no economic case and anyone who goes will just die horribly in a dreadful hell hole. 
The Earth will eventually die and Mars is merely a stepping stone to becoming a multi-planet civilization.  I agree that none of us will likely live long enough to see us become a space faring civilization, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a worthy (and very likely a necessary) long term goal.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2021, 07:09:39 AM »
The whole idea, once you get past the hype and the rich boys playing with their toys, of some independent colony on mars is ludicrous.
About 100 years of so ago, the notion of air travel becoming commonplace was little more than "hype and the rich boys playing with their toys", but look where we are now.
So? I don't see how that is relevant.    Where is there any actual equivalence?
Like air travel 100 years ago, manned space travel is still in its infancy and very expensive.  However, like air travel, the prices for manned space travel are coming down as more and more commercial space companies come on line.  Eventually the prices will come down so that manned space travel will no longer the sole domain for governments and the ultra rich.

What is the point of a mars colony?  There is no economic case and anyone who goes will just die horribly in a dreadful hell hole. 
The Earth will eventually die and Mars is merely a stepping stone to becoming a multi-planet civilization.  I agree that none of us will likely live long enough to see us become a space faring civilization, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a worthy (and very likely a necessary) long term goal.

Provided the Earth doesn't run out of extractable natural resources first

The Earth was always going to die. However it's going to take orders of magnitude more times than homo sapiens have ever existed before that happens. Perhaps we should work on ensuring the health of our own planet before writing it off in favour of one that is far worse. I mean, if you can bring Mars to a point where life is sustainable, then imagine what you could do for the Earth

It would probably be better to take control of large asteroids and do millions of fly bys of the Earth which each pass slightly tugging Earth away from the Sun then it would to try and make humans live on Mars or Titan. Just ensure you don't accidentally have said asteroid slam into the Earth instead!

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Denspressure

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2021, 07:16:43 AM »
Because life is precious, especially when it is sapient. I think microbial life is common, maybe complex life with simple brains. But sentient or even sapient life... very rare in the galaxy.

There are several species that could probably be on our level of intelligence, but their brains are stuck in a body that does not allow them to reach their full potential. Look at dolphins for example, if they had ways to manipulate objects they could probably form a complex society. They could create places of residence for themselves, allowing for idle thought and more time spend thinking and developing their minds.

Alas, they are stuck in a body with mere flippers. They have the sweet sting of intelligence, but can not use it to the fullest extend.

Rather sad, when you think about what could have been. Perhaps we would have had an equal species to converse with and learn from.


So then it is up to us, to use this blink in the moment of time of the Earth where a single species has reached sapience, to use our granted intellect to its fullest potentional. If not, we are a waste of evolution.

In turn,  hopefully we can spread life, complex or simple, any life, around our solar system. Mars probably only saw the earliest microbes in its existence. Wouldn't it be pure and utter beauty if we could....
An other obvious reason is that we could safeguard life from a single mass-extinction event that wipes the floor with even bacteria and microbes. Wouldn't it be a terrible fate for our solar system if it was left dark and empty, perhaps forever until the end of time....

Unless we do something about it.


Sunsets and sunrises, the brilliance of orbital motions and the atmosphere dancing. For billions of years this beauty has been wasted on nothingness, or creatures that could never appreciate it.

We can.
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Denspressure

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2021, 07:23:00 AM »
The whole idea, once you get past the hype and the rich boys playing with their toys, of some independent colony on mars is ludicrous.
About 100 years of so ago, the notion of air travel becoming commonplace was little more than "hype and the rich boys playing with their toys", but look where we are now.
So? I don't see how that is relevant.    Where is there any actual equivalence?
Like air travel 100 years ago, manned space travel is still in its infancy and very expensive.  However, like air travel, the prices for manned space travel are coming down as more and more commercial space companies come on line.  Eventually the prices will come down so that manned space travel will no longer the sole domain for governments and the ultra rich.

What is the point of a mars colony?  There is no economic case and anyone who goes will just die horribly in a dreadful hell hole. 
The Earth will eventually die and Mars is merely a stepping stone to becoming a multi-planet civilization.  I agree that none of us will likely live long enough to see us become a space faring civilization, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a worthy (and very likely a necessary) long term goal.

Provided the Earth doesn't run out of extractable natural resources first

The Earth was always going to die. However it's going to take orders of magnitude more times than homo sapiens have ever existed before that happens. Perhaps we should work on ensuring the health of our own planet before writing it off in favour of one that is far worse. I mean, if you can bring Mars to a point where life is sustainable, then imagine what you could do for the Earth

It would probably be better to take control of large asteroids and do millions of fly bys of the Earth which each pass slightly tugging Earth away from the Sun then it would to try and make humans live on Mars or Titan. Just ensure you don't accidentally have said asteroid slam into the Earth instead!
What if people said that 60 years ago and we never had earth research satellites, zero-gravity medical research oppertunities, GPS satellites and communication satellites.

Regardless, there will always be people in shitty situations. You can't change suppressive governess of/or a broken people perhaps inherent to their culture. Look at what happened to the middle east when the west tried to intervene. 50 years ago it was actually a place of beauty. Now everything has been flattened with the ground.

We should not waste our potential as a society to push humanity further as a whole, by the lowest possible denominator of our species. People, no, hundreds of countries have been throwing money at Africa for more than half a century. Money does not solve all problems, agency and education of a people does.
):

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Lemmiwinks

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2021, 02:49:32 PM »
Because in 50 years this planet will be racked with water wars and experiencing severe weather fluctuation. Mars will by contrast be self contained, highly regulated and run by the billionaires and their families that formed the companies that let us colonize Mars.
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2021, 03:14:03 PM »
Because in 50 years this planet will be racked with water wars and experiencing severe weather fluctuation. Mars will by contrast be self contained, highly regulated and run by the billionaires and their families that formed the companies that let us colonize Mars.

And with even less water than Earth. Fantastic

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2021, 01:04:37 AM »
Because in 50 years this planet will be racked with water wars
Whereas mars doesn't have any water, so that won't be an issue.  I like your thinking!
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markjo

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2021, 06:45:58 AM »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2021, 06:52:03 AM »
Because in 50 years this planet will be racked with water wars
Whereas mars doesn't have any water, so that won't be an issue.  I like your thinking!
Are you sure about that?

No, but couldn't resist the reply.  More research required.

I'd go with "no surface water" then.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2021, 06:54:52 AM »
Because in 50 years this planet will be racked with water wars
Whereas mars doesn't have any water, so that won't be an issue.  I like your thinking!
Are you sure about that?

No, but couldn't resist the reply.  More research required.

I'd go with "no surface water" then.

There's certainly no accessible water on Mars in 50 years. I wonder what cataclysmic event is going to rid the earth of its oceans within 50 years. We can always desalinate the water.

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markjo

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2021, 07:26:14 AM »
The best reason to go to Mars is really quite simple: humans are, by our very nature, curious and Mars is fascinating.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2021, 07:36:10 AM »
The whole idea, once you get past the hype and the rich boys playing with their toys, of some independent colony on mars is ludicrous.
About 100 years of so ago, the notion of air travel becoming commonplace was little more than "hype and the rich boys playing with their toys", but look where we are now.
So? I don't see how that is relevant.    Where is there any actual equivalence?
Like air travel 100 years ago, manned space travel is still in its infancy and very expensive.  However, like air travel, the prices for manned space travel are coming down as more and more commercial space companies come on line. 
Just getting back on this:  where, exactly, will people be going to in this space travel?  This is why it is a false equivalence with air travel.  Air travel became fantastically successful (in places that could afford it, most still can't) because it fulfills social and economic desires.  It can take me to visit family, go to a new job, transport goods to be sold, check in with clients,  explore a new city or lie on a beautiful beach.   None of this is applicable to space travel.

It can't take me anywhere with other people or economies.  Everywhere else but earth is fantastically inhospitable and, unlike that beach in Thailand or restaurant in Paris, it won't have basics like an atmosphere or 1G gravity.  Let alone really good quality cocktails.

So you might have the pure novelty appeal to bored oligarchs who might want to play golf on the moon and take some selfies before flying back a few hours later.  Or super rich people who, for some reason, are really determined that they want to die on a dust strewn shithole like mars.  But apart from this, what is the point?

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markjo

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2021, 02:58:27 PM »
Just getting back on this:  where, exactly, will people be going to in this space travel? 
For now, space is the destination.  There have already been seven private citizens who have paid many millions of dollars to visit Mir and the ISS with more ISS trips in the works.  There are at least two companies getting ready to offer regular sub-orbital trips, possibly as soon as this year.  More than one company is looking at the feasibility of building space hotels.

This is why it is a false equivalence with air travel.  Air travel became fantastically successful (in places that could afford it, most still can't) because it fulfills social and economic desires.  It can take me to visit family, go to a new job, transport goods to be sold, check in with clients,  explore a new city or lie on a beautiful beach.   None of this is applicable to space travel.

It can't take me anywhere with other people or economies.  Everywhere else but earth is fantastically inhospitable and, unlike that beach in Thailand or restaurant in Paris, it won't have basics like an atmosphere or 1G gravity.  Let alone really good quality cocktails.
Elon Musk has proposed a version of Starship that can be used as a space plane offering earth to earth passenger service.

So you might have the pure novelty appeal to bored oligarchs who might want to play golf on the moon and take some selfies before flying back a few hours later.  Or super rich people who, for some reason, are really determined that they want to die on a dust strewn shithole like mars.  But apart from this, what is the point?
What was the point of the pilgrims sailing to the new world on the Mayflower?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2021, 01:44:40 AM »


Billions of years worth of erosion

Toxic/razor thin atmosphere

No accessible fresh water

No vegetation

No animals

Geologically inactive for the most part

Solar/cosmic ray blasted surface

Low gravity that would cripple any long term human resident even if the above weren't an issue

So... Should we go to Mars? Should that even be a question??

Lets say for arguments sake Mars has a lush and established biosphere. Humans would die when they breathe it in like those tripod things in 'War of the Worlds'

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From the moment the invaders arrived, breathed our air, ate and drank, they were doomed. They were undone, destroyed, after all of man's weapons and devices had failed, by the tiniest creatures that God in his wisdom put upon this earth. By the toll of a billion deaths, man had earned his immunity, his right to survive among this planet's infinite organisms. And that right is ours against all challenges. For neither do men live nor die in vain.



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markjo

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2021, 06:25:27 AM »
How many people do you know that won't go camping if there isn't air conditioning and toilet facilities handy?  Space travel and colonization ain't for sissies.  If you don't have an adverterous spirit, then don't bother asking because you'll never understand.  Just remember that the meek shall inherit the earth.  The rest of us will escape to the stars.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Eren

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2021, 06:30:30 AM »
If you don't have an adverterous spirit, then don't bother asking because you'll never understand.


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Heiwa

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #47 on: February 26, 2021, 09:18:12 AM »
How many people do you know that won't go camping if there isn't air conditioning and toilet facilities handy?  Space travel and colonization ain't for sissies.  If you don't have an adverterous spirit, then don't bother asking because you'll never understand.  Just remember that the meek shall inherit the earth.  The rest of us will escape to the stars.
So why don't you just do that?

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JJA

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #48 on: February 26, 2021, 10:19:43 AM »
How many people do you know that won't go camping if there isn't air conditioning and toilet facilities handy?  Space travel and colonization ain't for sissies.  If you don't have an adverterous spirit, then don't bother asking because you'll never understand.  Just remember that the meek shall inherit the earth.  The rest of us will escape to the stars.
So why don't you just do that?

We are.  Sad you are choosing to be left behind, but that's your choice.

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boydster

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2021, 10:28:14 AM »
I think I worked out a handy flow chart to work through whether we should go to Mars or not.


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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2021, 01:42:02 PM »
How many people do you know that won't go camping if there isn't air conditioning and toilet facilities handy?  Space travel and colonization ain't for sissies.  If you don't have an adverterous spirit, then don't bother asking because you'll never understand.  Just remember that the meek shall inherit the earth.  The rest of us will escape to the stars.

Campings fun because you can

Breathe
Temperature is survivable
Access to fresh water/food (animals)
Nature looks nice

Imagine going to Antarctica to camp except you're in a space suit the whole time and not one inch of skin can ever be exposed to 'nature', ever

Now it's not so fun and Mars is still worse than that

Don't get me wrong, the bragging rights would be cool to say 'been there, done that' but people colonising Mars is a fantasy

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Know your place

Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #51 on: February 27, 2021, 07:26:45 AM »
Just getting back on this:  where, exactly, will people be going to in this space travel? 
For now, space is the destination.
Not really.  That is literally a trip to nowhere.

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  There have already been seven private citizens who have paid many millions of dollars to visit Mir and the ISS with more ISS trips in the works.  There are at least two companies getting ready to offer regular sub-orbital trips, possibly as soon as this year.
Yeah, and I'm sure super rich thrill seekers will continue to seek new experiences.  Doesn't tell us anything at all about living on mars.

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More than one company is looking at the feasibility of building space hotels.
Oh common, there are companies looking at the feasibility of free energy and time travel as well - doesn't really mean anything.  On the other hand, I can see orbital hotels as far more likely than a mars colony.  Still highly unlikely in the in the next decades.
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What was the point of the pilgrims sailing to the new world on the Mayflower?
Again, a terrible analogy.

They went to find new lands, rich in resources, that were not under the ownership of anyone else (well, anyone else who mattered), unlike all of Europe.  They wanted to exploit these resources for their own benefit.  They wanted arable land to grow food, game for meat, water for drinking, wood for building, space for expansion etc.  All of the same things colonists have always wanted.  There's a good reason they set up a colony in North America and not the middle of the Sahara or the Antarctic.

They also expected things they took as a given: like a breathable atmosphere, manageable levels of ionizing radiation, temperatures that wouldn't kill you in seconds and 1G gravity.

This is Massachusetts:



and this is mars



Do you see the difference?

Mars is a hellhole, and there is no changing that with wishful think and handwaving. 
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markjo

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #52 on: February 27, 2021, 08:16:45 AM »
Mars is a hellhole, and there is no changing that with wishful think and handwaving.
That's what makes the challenge that much more exciting.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #53 on: February 27, 2021, 08:39:29 AM »
Mars is a hellhole, and there is no changing that with wishful think and handwaving.
That's what makes the challenge that much more exciting.
Go and live in the Mariana Trench if you want a challenge.  It's much closer and cheaper to get to.  Or try to survive sticking your head in a threshing machine - this will have roughly the same mortality rate as a trip to mars, if that's the sort of thing challenge you are into.
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JJA

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #54 on: February 27, 2021, 08:58:00 AM »
Mars is a hellhole, and there is no changing that with wishful think and handwaving.

No, but hard work, ingenuity and the desire to explore and push boundaries certainly can change it.

Going there is the first step.

Nobody is forcing you to go, nothing wrong with wanting to stay here.  I don't plan on going either.

Just don't stomp on peoples dreams, jeez.  Humanity in general wants to explore, nothing wrong with that either.

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Jamie

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #55 on: February 27, 2021, 09:05:11 AM »
Mars is a hellhole, and there is no changing that with wishful think and handwaving.

No, but hard work, ingenuity and the desire to explore and push boundaries certainly can change it.

Going there is the first step.

Nobody is forcing you to go, nothing wrong with wanting to stay here.  I don't plan on going either.

Just don't stomp on peoples dreams, jeez.  Humanity in general wants to explore, nothing wrong with that either.

No, but Jimmy's got a point -- Mars is a hellhole. Now of course we've explored places like Antarctica which aren't exactly very friendly to us humans, but we've come up with some work-arounds.

Mars? That's a whole different ballpark. We can still breathe the air in Antarctica, expose our skin a bit, things like that. It's much easier to ship stuff there and get people on and off the place.

Do I have a problem with us going to Mars, really? No.

Do I worry about it? Oh yeah. It's pretty unfeasible right now. So many of us struggle with even basic notions like the color of someone's skin or their sexual orientation... and we're supposed to unify and commit ourselves to the pursuit of a Martian colony?

I don't see it happening, not in my lifetime.
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JJA

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #56 on: February 27, 2021, 09:22:59 AM »
Mars is a hellhole, and there is no changing that with wishful think and handwaving.

No, but hard work, ingenuity and the desire to explore and push boundaries certainly can change it.

Going there is the first step.

Nobody is forcing you to go, nothing wrong with wanting to stay here.  I don't plan on going either.

Just don't stomp on peoples dreams, jeez.  Humanity in general wants to explore, nothing wrong with that either.

No, but Jimmy's got a point -- Mars is a hellhole. Now of course we've explored places like Antarctica which aren't exactly very friendly to us humans, but we've come up with some work-arounds.

Mars? That's a whole different ballpark. We can still breathe the air in Antarctica, expose our skin a bit, things like that. It's much easier to ship stuff there and get people on and off the place.

Do I have a problem with us going to Mars, really? No.

Do I worry about it? Oh yeah. It's pretty unfeasible right now. So many of us struggle with even basic notions like the color of someone's skin or their sexual orientation... and we're supposed to unify and commit ourselves to the pursuit of a Martian colony?

I don't see it happening, not in my lifetime.

If he just said is it a hellhole I wouldn't have replied.  He said there is no changing that, but we can, eventually. Wishful thinking is actually part of it. You have to dream something before you do it.

I also agree, it's not happening any time soon. We have a long way to go, if we can even overcome our limitations, hatred for each other and selfish greed.  And the tech isn't here, but we won't get that tech without reaching and trying.  Someone has to take that first step.

Look at who is spending their own money to go into space. It's not people born into wealth and who got everything given to them and just greedily grab for more, it's people who were not born rich but got there anyway and want to spend it on something worthwhile, not just clutch at it.

Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #57 on: February 27, 2021, 10:48:10 AM »
Mars is a hellhole, and there is no changing that with wishful think and handwaving.

No, but hard work, ingenuity and the desire to explore and push boundaries certainly can change it.
No it can't.  We have no technology, even vaguely planned technology, that will change it from being a hell hole.     

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Nobody is forcing you to go, nothing wrong with wanting to stay here.
Well, thanks, that's good to know.  It's a moot point, as nobody is going to live on mars in my lifetime.  Maybe some billionaire will persuade some people to go and die there, but that's not quite the same thing.

Quote
Just don't stomp on peoples dreams, jeez.
We're just having a debate on an obscure internet forum, not sure who's dreams I'm crushing? The great majority of the world doesn't give a flying crap about mars.

If someone wants to fund a manned trip to mars, then there's nothing I'm going to do stop them, even if I could.  I don't want to a penny of my taxpayer's money going towards it - though funding probes etc for scientific research is fine with me.

The question is, who will fund this?  There is zero economic case for going - no payback.   Any "mission to mars" will just become a gigantic money pit.

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it's people who were not born rich but got there anyway and want to spend it on something worthwhile, not just clutch at it.
If they want to spend there wealth on something worthwhile, there are about a million things on that list before ego driven "boys with toys" rocket adventures.  As that's all it is and the end of the day.
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JJA

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #58 on: February 27, 2021, 11:29:22 AM »
Mars is a hellhole, and there is no changing that with wishful think and handwaving.

No, but hard work, ingenuity and the desire to explore and push boundaries certainly can change it.
No it can't.  We have no technology, even vaguely planned technology, that will change it from being a hell hole.     

Antarctica is a hell hole, so is death valley, so is the ocean floor.  We can and do visit and live there, we can do the same on Mars.

There are far, far more people willing and eager to go live on Mars than we could ever send there now or in the near future.

We don't have to terraform it to make it livable, we can build structures to live in instead.  Eventually quite comfortable cities could be built.  This is technology we could put together now, if we spent the money and effort on it.  We just have other priorities, but it's certainly something we could do if we wanted to.

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Nobody is forcing you to go, nothing wrong with wanting to stay here.
Well, thanks, that's good to know.  It's a moot point, as nobody is going to live on mars in my lifetime.  Maybe some billionaire will persuade some people to go and die there, but that's not quite the same thing.

Nobody is going to need to be persuaded to go, there are tons of people willing and happy to do it.  Even ones willing to go live the rest of their lives there on a one way trip. People die all the time doing things they want, I think going to Mars is a better use of ones life than sitting at home and eating themselves to death.

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Just don't stomp on peoples dreams, jeez.
We're just having a debate on an obscure internet forum, not sure who's dreams I'm crushing? The great majority of the world doesn't give a flying crap about mars.

If someone wants to fund a manned trip to mars, then there's nothing I'm going to do stop them, even if I could.  I don't want to a penny of my taxpayer's money going towards it - though funding probes etc for scientific research is fine with me.

The question is, who will fund this?  There is zero economic case for going - no payback.   Any "mission to mars" will just become a gigantic money pit.

Lots of things were money pits before they became profitable.  Lots of things were money pits before they helped spur innovation and discoveries.  Where would GPS and global communications be without the big money pit that the space race was?

And guess what... there is more to life than capitalism and profit.  Humans do things because we want to do them, because they inspire us and because we want adventure and to explore.

You don't want any part of it, that's fine.  Not everyone wants to go to the bottom of the ocean and see what's down there, but luckily for the rest of us, some do.

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it's people who were not born rich but got there anyway and want to spend it on something worthwhile, not just clutch at it.
If they want to spend there wealth on something worthwhile, there are about a million things on that list before ego driven "boys with toys" rocket adventures.  As that's all it is and the end of the day.

That's just your opinion.  To me, they are pushing humanity forward, giving countless people the awe and wonder of seeing us explore space and make new discoveries.  To me, and to a very large number of people, space exploration has been and continues to be very worthwhile. 

To you it's just boys and their toys.  To me, it's humanity literally reaching for the stars.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why Should We Go To Mars?
« Reply #59 on: February 27, 2021, 01:45:33 PM »
Mars is a hellhole, and there is no changing that with wishful think and handwaving.

No, but hard work, ingenuity and the desire to explore and push boundaries certainly can change it.

Going there is the first step.

Nobody is forcing you to go, nothing wrong with wanting to stay here.  I don't plan on going either.

Just don't stomp on peoples dreams, jeez.  Humanity in general wants to explore, nothing wrong with that either.

Except when the money involved for the vain attempt at realising those dreams could literally lift millions of people out of poverty then you have to ask if it's even ethical

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