You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy

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Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2021, 04:26:00 AM »
.

Also, electric cars wouldn't exist without vast government subsidy programs.  If left purely to the market they wouldn't exist in the first place.

Considering they were invented in the late 1800s... I don't think this is true.
OK, badly phrased.  I meant exist as a mainstream commercial product.  Nobody is making any money from actually selling the cars (yet) but from subsidy and carbon credits (a type of indirect subsidy).  There would be no Teslas or VW electrics on the road without government intervention.

Quote
  And switching to any new energy source usually requires some kind of governemnt intervention
That was my point.
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Lorddave

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Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2021, 04:39:43 AM »
.

Also, electric cars wouldn't exist without vast government subsidy programs.  If left purely to the market they wouldn't exist in the first place.

Considering they were invented in the late 1800s... I don't think this is true.
OK, badly phrased.  I meant exist as a mainstream commercial product.  Nobody is making any money from actually selling the cars (yet) but from subsidy and carbon credits (a type of indirect subsidy).  There would be no Teslas or VW electrics on the road without government intervention.

Quote
  And switching to any new energy source usually requires some kind of governemnt intervention
That was my point.

Maybe not in America but here in Norway, E-Cars are big.  Plenty of money being made.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2021, 06:19:45 AM »
.

Also, electric cars wouldn't exist without vast government subsidy programs.  If left purely to the market they wouldn't exist in the first place.

Considering they were invented in the late 1800s... I don't think this is true.
OK, badly phrased.  I meant exist as a mainstream commercial product.  Nobody is making any money from actually selling the cars (yet) but from subsidy and carbon credits (a type of indirect subsidy).  There would be no Teslas or VW electrics on the road without government intervention.

Quote
  And switching to any new energy source usually requires some kind of governemnt intervention
That was my point.

Maybe not in America but here in Norway, E-Cars are big.  Plenty of money being made.
Err, you have the most generous subsidy package on the planet for electric cars. 
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

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DuckDodgers

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Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2021, 06:52:18 AM »
Is there something wrong with giving subsidies to emerging technologies in order to help cultivate their growth and make it so they can being profitable on their own?  Hell, gas powered cars have been around for a century and we still subsidize oil.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

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Lorddave

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Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2021, 06:55:21 AM »
.

Also, electric cars wouldn't exist without vast government subsidy programs.  If left purely to the market they wouldn't exist in the first place.

Considering they were invented in the late 1800s... I don't think this is true.
OK, badly phrased.  I meant exist as a mainstream commercial product.  Nobody is making any money from actually selling the cars (yet) but from subsidy and carbon credits (a type of indirect subsidy).  There would be no Teslas or VW electrics on the road without government intervention.

Quote
  And switching to any new energy source usually requires some kind of governemnt intervention
That was my point.

Maybe not in America but here in Norway, E-Cars are big.  Plenty of money being made.
Err, you have the most generous subsidy package on the planet for electric cars.

I can find the incentives for consumers but not for manufacturers...
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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markjo

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Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2021, 07:38:38 AM »
I can find the incentives for consumers but not for manufacturers...
Incentivized customers are the incentive for manufacturers.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2021, 08:35:51 AM »
.

Also, electric cars wouldn't exist without vast government subsidy programs.  If left purely to the market they wouldn't exist in the first place.

Considering they were invented in the late 1800s... I don't think this is true.
OK, badly phrased.  I meant exist as a mainstream commercial product.  Nobody is making any money from actually selling the cars (yet) but from subsidy and carbon credits (a type of indirect subsidy).  There would be no Teslas or VW electrics on the road without government intervention.

Quote
  And switching to any new energy source usually requires some kind of governemnt intervention
That was my point.

Maybe not in America but here in Norway, E-Cars are big.  Plenty of money being made.
Err, you have the most generous subsidy package on the planet for electric cars.

I can find the incentives for consumers but not for manufacturers...
Same thing in effect, it is still a subsidy.  Without the lavish government subsidies in Norway, electric cars would work out much more expensive than their ICE equivalent.    As it is, it makes them much cheaper, so nobody is buying ICE any more.

Anyway, the incentive for manufacturers are carbon credits.  Tesla alone hoovered up $1.4 billion by selling credits last year.  Without that it would not make a profit.  Without profits it would ultimately stop making cars.
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

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Crouton

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Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2021, 08:51:56 AM »
.

Also, electric cars wouldn't exist without vast government subsidy programs.  If left purely to the market they wouldn't exist in the first place.

Considering they were invented in the late 1800s... I don't think this is true.
OK, badly phrased.  I meant exist as a mainstream commercial product.  Nobody is making any money from actually selling the cars (yet) but from subsidy and carbon credits (a type of indirect subsidy).  There would be no Teslas or VW electrics on the road without government intervention.

Quote
  And switching to any new energy source usually requires some kind of governemnt intervention
That was my point.

Maybe not in America but here in Norway, E-Cars are big.  Plenty of money being made.
Err, you have the most generous subsidy package on the planet for electric cars.

I can find the incentives for consumers but not for manufacturers...
Same thing in effect, it is still a subsidy.  Without the lavish government subsidies in Norway, electric cars would work out much more expensive than their ICE equivalent.    As it is, it makes them much cheaper, so nobody is buying ICE any more.

Anyway, the incentive for manufacturers are carbon credits.  Tesla alone hoovered up $1.4 billion by selling credits last year.  Without that it would not make a profit.  Without profits it would ultimately stop making cars.

That sort of tells me that the government incentives in all their forms are working.  You couldn't have the technology without government support.  The question is can EVs get over the hump and become profitable?  I've seen strong movement in that direction.  A lot of investment in economies and scale and battery innovation are starting to bear fruit.  So I think the answer is yes.
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Lorddave

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Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2021, 09:08:10 AM »
.

Also, electric cars wouldn't exist without vast government subsidy programs.  If left purely to the market they wouldn't exist in the first place.

Considering they were invented in the late 1800s... I don't think this is true.
OK, badly phrased.  I meant exist as a mainstream commercial product.  Nobody is making any money from actually selling the cars (yet) but from subsidy and carbon credits (a type of indirect subsidy).  There would be no Teslas or VW electrics on the road without government intervention.

Quote
  And switching to any new energy source usually requires some kind of governemnt intervention
That was my point.

Maybe not in America but here in Norway, E-Cars are big.  Plenty of money being made.
Err, you have the most generous subsidy package on the planet for electric cars.

I can find the incentives for consumers but not for manufacturers...
Same thing in effect, it is still a subsidy.  Without the lavish government subsidies in Norway, electric cars would work out much more expensive than their ICE equivalent.    As it is, it makes them much cheaper, so nobody is buying ICE any more.

Anyway, the incentive for manufacturers are carbon credits.  Tesla alone hoovered up $1.4 billion by selling credits last year.  Without that it would not make a profit.  Without profits it would ultimately stop making cars.

Fair.  But I like the idea of incentivising the consumer rather than the manufacturer.
Also, putting in a shit ton of charging stations helps alot.  Like its weird to see a town, mall, or modern grocery store without a charging station or four.

It probably doesn't hurt that power is (usually) cheaper than gas...
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2021, 11:36:04 AM »
Fair.  But I like the idea of incentivising the consumer rather than the manufacturer.
Also, putting in a shit ton of charging stations helps alot.  Like its weird to see a town, mall, or modern grocery store without a charging station or four.

It probably doesn't hurt that power is (usually) cheaper than gas...
Yeah, you're all hydro power, so it makes sense.  Genuinely zero carbon cars and I also understand you have excellent public transport.  Unlike, say, China where they are really just exporting their pollution from cities to power stations.  Probably good if you live in a city, not so good if you live down wind from one of the thousands of coal fired power stations they are building.  Or if you live on this planet.

I'm not so sure how I feel about the e-car subsidies.  Electrics are definitely better than ICE overall and I'm very much in favour of not just leaving the market to itself.  But the subsidies are all for the middle class - the people who least need them.  House round the corner from me just replaced one of their two Porsches with a Tesla...

Personally, if I were god-emperor, I'd have the subsidies strongly tapering off as the car got more expensive.  People who can afford a $100,000 Tesla don't need any help from the rest of society (as they are paying taxes but not getting any subsidy).

Get on a bike!
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

*

Lorddave

  • 16427
Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2021, 01:42:05 PM »
Fair.  But I like the idea of incentivising the consumer rather than the manufacturer.
Also, putting in a shit ton of charging stations helps alot.  Like its weird to see a town, mall, or modern grocery store without a charging station or four.

It probably doesn't hurt that power is (usually) cheaper than gas...
Yeah, you're all hydro power, so it makes sense.  Genuinely zero carbon cars and I also understand you have excellent public transport.  Unlike, say, China where they are really just exporting their pollution from cities to power stations.  Probably good if you live in a city, not so good if you live down wind from one of the thousands of coal fired power stations they are building.  Or if you live on this planet.

I'm not so sure how I feel about the e-car subsidies.  Electrics are definitely better than ICE overall and I'm very much in favour of not just leaving the market to itself.  But the subsidies are all for the middle class - the people who least need them.  House round the corner from me just replaced one of their two Porsches with a Tesla...

Personally, if I were god-emperor, I'd have the subsidies strongly tapering off as the car got more expensive.  People who can afford a $100,000 Tesla don't need any help from the rest of society (as they are paying taxes but not getting any subsidy).

Get on a bike!
In fairness, people who pay $100k for a Tesla are the ones who fund the $50k Tesla model. 

And yeah, China uses a ton of coal, but they are trying to diversify.  They've been cutting coal power usage in the last decade considerably.  Went from like 80% to 67%.  So they're trying, just takes a while.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Shifter

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Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2021, 02:42:05 PM »
Fair.  But I like the idea of incentivising the consumer rather than the manufacturer.
Also, putting in a shit ton of charging stations helps alot.  Like its weird to see a town, mall, or modern grocery store without a charging station or four.

It probably doesn't hurt that power is (usually) cheaper than gas...
Yeah, you're all hydro power, so it makes sense.  Genuinely zero carbon cars and I also understand you have excellent public transport.  Unlike, say, China where they are really just exporting their pollution from cities to power stations.  Probably good if you live in a city, not so good if you live down wind from one of the thousands of coal fired power stations they are building.  Or if you live on this planet.

I'm not so sure how I feel about the e-car subsidies.  Electrics are definitely better than ICE overall and I'm very much in favour of not just leaving the market to itself.  But the subsidies are all for the middle class - the people who least need them.  House round the corner from me just replaced one of their two Porsches with a Tesla...

Personally, if I were god-emperor, I'd have the subsidies strongly tapering off as the car got more expensive.  People who can afford a $100,000 Tesla don't need any help from the rest of society (as they are paying taxes but not getting any subsidy).

Get on a bike!
In fairness, people who pay $100k for a Tesla are the ones who fund the $50k Tesla model. 

And yeah, China uses a ton of coal, but they are trying to diversify.  They've been cutting coal power usage in the last decade considerably.  Went from like 80% to 67%.  So they're trying, just takes a while.

Yeah, got to hand it to the Chinese. They banned high quality Australian coal to use shitty Russian and other 'dirty' coal

https://abc.net.au/article/12993418
Quote

Chinese social media has seen tens of thousands of posts complaining about the new electricity restrictions in the country's central and eastern provinces of Hunan and Zhejiang, which have been viewed more than 150 million times on the platform Weibo.

News of the restrictions comes amid a burgeoning trade spat between Australia and China, in which Australian coal appears to have effectively been barred from Chinese ports.

By November, more than 60 vessels carrying Australian thermal coal were held up in Chinese waters because they weren't able to offload their cargo, according to Bloomberg shipping analysis data.


Basically, the Chinese got pissed at Australia because we had the audacity to ask for an independent enquiry on the origins of covid-19. So to 'teach us a lesson' they banned coal among many other Australian goods.

So now millions of Chinese are suffering energy restrictions, blackouts etc in a particularly freezing winter to teach Australians a lesson lol

We apparantly just sold the coal to Japan and India instead. China can use shitty inferior quality Russian coal now

Also their attitude is causing the world to rethink their economic relationship with China as they now diversify and decouple from them. Top stuff China!



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what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place.

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Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2021, 10:30:32 PM »
Shifter, are you happy?
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You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

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Shifter

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Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #43 on: February 19, 2021, 04:06:43 AM »
Shifter, are you happy?

Yeah, I'm OK I guess. I've just had 28m3 of dirt delivered to my house to landscape and shovel away. Fun times


Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place.

?

Eren

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Re: You’ll Own Nothing and You’ll Be Happy
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2021, 01:13:36 AM »

So is our economy based on Nazi Germany ideals? Wall Street supported them and following the war we took them in to educate us in their ways?
No and no.  That article was dog shit.

The modern US economy and culture has bears no resemblance to the Nazi war economy - Hitler would be horrified by it, if he could even get his head round it.


If you actually want to read about the history of the Nazi economy, I'd recommend this fantastic book:

The Wages of Descruction

One of the best non-fiction books I've read. Amazing depth and insights.

D1?
(Sorry I'm just trying to fit in.)

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Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2021, 02:02:10 AM »

So is our economy based on Nazi Germany ideals? Wall Street supported them and following the war we took them in to educate us in their ways?
No and no.  That article was dog shit.

The modern US economy and culture has bears no resemblance to the Nazi war economy - Hitler would be horrified by it, if he could even get his head round it.


If you actually want to read about the history of the Nazi economy, I'd recommend this fantastic book:

The Wages of Descruction

One of the best non-fiction books I've read. Amazing depth and insights.

D1?
(Sorry I'm just trying to fit in.)
D1 is Dipshitone, because he's the dipshit number one in this forum.

@shifter: What do you need that dirt for? Building a mountain in your backyard or something?
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

?

Eren

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Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2021, 02:06:05 AM »
Thanks I'll watch out for him.

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Shifter

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Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2021, 02:10:34 AM »

So is our economy based on Nazi Germany ideals? Wall Street supported them and following the war we took them in to educate us in their ways?
No and no.  That article was dog shit.

The modern US economy and culture has bears no resemblance to the Nazi war economy - Hitler would be horrified by it, if he could even get his head round it.


If you actually want to read about the history of the Nazi economy, I'd recommend this fantastic book:

The Wages of Descruction

One of the best non-fiction books I've read. Amazing depth and insights.

D1?
(Sorry I'm just trying to fit in.)
D1 is Dipshitone, because he's the dipshit number one in this forum.

@shifter: What do you need that dirt for? Building a mountain in your backyard or something?

I have a large corner block house but the dumbarses that made the block gave me a tiny backyard and the front has an ugly drop off to the street level. I'm leveling out the block and giving myself a big backyard by making most of the front as the backyard. I've already had about 70-80m3 put out and levelled out so far but it wasn't enough.

In the future they may say I own nothing, but no ones taking my dirt!!!


Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place.

*

Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2021, 02:20:56 AM »
What is a corner block house? Sounds like a place where drug dealers live!

When you're at landscaping, it'd recomend building a small pond and stream with a waterfall. Makes the garden extremely peaceful and gives it much value.
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

*

Shifter

  • 19253
Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2021, 02:27:08 AM »
What is a corner block house? Sounds like a place where drug dealers live!

When you're at landscaping, it'd recomend building a small pond and stream with a waterfall. Makes the garden extremely peaceful and gives it much value.

Corner block. Normally you drive by a house and theres another house next to it being the same street. With mine, there's my house, then a road you can turn into another street to which the first house on that street is still my block. Consequently it also means I have '2 addresses' :) It does mean my block is bigger but a front yard is such wasted empty space. Might as well make most of it usable. For not a lot of money in landscaping it can add tens of thousands of extra value to the house too. Bigger backyards are becoming increasingly rare on newer blocks in my state.


Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place.

*

Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: You値l Own Nothing and You値l Be Happy
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2021, 02:53:29 AM »
Ah okay; so then definitely go for the backyard (frontyard) pond with a small waterfall/stream!
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.