Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?

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Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« on: February 04, 2021, 07:49:25 AM »
It's as simple as this: convince me. I've been taught the Earth is round. If you really believe the Earth is flat, it should be simple to make a strong case to try to prove it. I am going into this as openminded as possible.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2021, 10:04:31 PM »

 I've been taught the Earth is round.

so what?

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faded mike

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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2021, 11:17:21 PM »
Hello there
To me, at long distances it looks normally flat - no cruvature drop. Do a survey and see how many times out of 10 it is closer to flat or curved.

Have you ever seen the curvature? You could also just try looking for that. But look closely and see what explanations fit best / if they are certain.
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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2021, 11:29:43 PM »
I am going into this as openminded as possible.
As openminded as possible for you doesn't appear to go very far, given the disdain and haughtiness you show in your other statements.

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faded mike

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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2021, 12:18:23 AM »
If you can find the truth you can and probably will be in the right. Thats where you wanna be!
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 12:20:46 AM by faded mike »
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OTBL0829

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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2021, 11:54:22 PM »
Hello there
To me, at long distances it looks normally flat - no cruvature drop. Do a survey and see how many times out of 10 it is closer to flat or curved.

Have you ever seen the curvature? You could also just try looking for that. But look closely and see what explanations fit best / if they are certain.

I am not saying the earth is either flat or round, but assuming it was a sphere, the earth would be so large that the curve would at most times be too broad to see from a plain eye. You would have to travel very far up: several miles, to even start to see the very beginning of the curvature. Again, not supporting either sides with this, just pointing out why your logic doesn't prove a flat earth. Also, earth has varying terrain: mountains, hills, deserts. No one can deny that these stand alone regaurdless of the shape of the earth. Maybe the earth is flat, but mountains aren't. If you look at some mountains you might say "the earth doesn't look very flat to me"

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Ski

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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2021, 09:38:56 PM »
It's as simple as this: convince me.

No, thanks.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2021, 02:19:40 PM »
Hello there
To me, at long distances it looks normally flat - no cruvature drop. Do a survey and see how many times out of 10 it is closer to flat or curved.

Have you ever seen the curvature? You could also just try looking for that. But look closely and see what explanations fit best / if they are certain.

You can't see curvature by looking left and right (x and y). It takes depth perception (z) to see it. Think of a picture of a basketball vs. an actual basketball. They both have the same x,y profile that looks like a circle, but that alone does not tell you whether it's a flat circle or a sphere. You need the z axis for that, and in the case of a basketball, you are close enough to see all 3 dimensions as it curves away from you, and your brain kicks in to see that as a sphere.

So, for example, standing on a beach and looking out to sea tells you nothing.

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Danang

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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2021, 06:12:13 PM »
Please convert to flat earth sect 🙏

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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2021, 11:35:30 PM »
It's as simple as this: convince me. I've been taught the Earth is round. If you really believe the Earth is flat, it should be simple to make a strong case to try to prove it. I am going into this as openminded as possible.

Q. Why should you believe the earth is flat?

A. Because a middle aged man with a middle age spread, named Mark Sargent, who still lives with his mom, says it is. Don't let Mark down. He needs you on team flat.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2021, 01:29:52 AM »


Nobody should believe anything they don't want to.....but....... just sitting back and using your basic logical mind you can wipe out a spinning global indoctrination and actually do some simple experiments to show many things that prove level and flatness.


Water is a massive massive hint and a reality, not just a unprovable theory.

As long as people forsake logic for fantasy thrown at them by authority and told to gobble it up, then there will never be any thinking time to follow their own path, especially when surrounded by the massive pressure of their peers.

Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2021, 03:00:06 AM »
just sitting back and using your basic logical mind you can wipe out a spinning global indoctrination and actually do some simple experiments to show many things that prove level and flatness.
You sure do love repeating the same pathetic lies with no ability to justify them at all.

We have been over water countless times.
It clearly shows Earth is round.
It doesn't matter how many times you repeat the same pathetic lies, it wont magically make it logical.

If you just look for whatever you can to prop up your irrational hatred of the globe, you can come up with all sorts of nonsense, nonsense that when examined logically and honestly, is revealed to be pure nonsense.

Conversely, if you sit back and honestly and logically use your mind to honestly and logically analyse the RE model, you find no fault with it.
Likewise, if you honestly conduct experiments, you repeatedly find reality to be consistent with the RE, and can find plenty which shows Earth isn't flat.

And before you ask for any such evidence, go look in the previous threads where you have been provided that evidence and you just dismiss it as fake.

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2021, 12:11:47 PM »


Nobody should believe anything they don't want to.....but....... just sitting back and using your basic logical mind you can wipe out a spinning global indoctrination and actually do some simple experiments to show many things that prove level and flatness.


Water is a massive massive hint and a reality, not just a unprovable theory.

As long as people forsake logic for fantasy thrown at them by authority and told to gobble it up, then there will never be any thinking time to follow their own path, especially when surrounded by the massive pressure of their peers.


Flatness, like water tension?
Rabinoz RIP

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Mikey T.

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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2021, 12:13:29 PM »


Nobody should believe anything they don't want to.....but....... just sitting back and using your basic logical mind you can wipe out a spinning global indoctrination and actually do some simple experiments to show many things that prove level and flatness.


Water is a massive massive hint and a reality, not just a unprovable theory.

As long as people forsake logic for fantasy thrown at them by authority and told to gobble it up, then there will never be any thinking time to follow their own path, especially when surrounded by the massive pressure of their peers.
Oh please do explain how to do one of these simple experiments.

Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2021, 12:42:43 PM »
It's a strange thing with Sceptimatics 'simple experiments' because I have used my logical mind and also done some simple experiments of my own which prove the Earth is not level or flat.

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Mikey T.

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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2021, 12:55:55 PM »
I just want to do one one these simple experiments, granted that's if they have proper controls in place.  All he has to do is explain one, and since they are so simple I should be able to knock one out pretty easily and quickly.

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markjo

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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2021, 01:26:13 PM »
Nobody should believe anything they don't want to.....
I reject your reality and substitute my own. -- Every FE'er
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2021, 01:26:49 PM »


Nobody should believe anything they don't want to.....but....... just sitting back and using your basic logical mind you can wipe out a spinning global indoctrination and actually do some simple experiments to show many things that prove level and flatness.


Water is a massive massive hint and a reality, not just a unprovable theory.

As long as people forsake logic for fantasy thrown at them by authority and told to gobble it up, then there will never be any thinking time to follow their own path, especially when surrounded by the massive pressure of their peers.


Flatness, like water tension?

Flatness as in the shape of water droplets.  :-*

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Mikey T.

  • 2784
Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2021, 05:15:05 PM »


Nobody should believe anything they don't want to.....but....... just sitting back and using your basic logical mind you can wipe out a spinning global indoctrination and actually do some simple experiments to show many things that prove level and flatness.


Water is a massive massive hint and a reality, not just a unprovable theory.

As long as people forsake logic for fantasy thrown at them by authority and told to gobble it up, then there will never be any thinking time to follow their own path, especially when surrounded by the massive pressure of their peers.


Flatness, like water tension?

Flatness as in the shape of water droplets.  :-*
LMAO 

Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2021, 05:24:54 PM »
It's as simple as this: convince me.

No, thanks.
Can't say fairer than that.

Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2021, 09:13:17 AM »
Answer: You shouldn’t.  Belief has no place in knowledge, especially scientific, and is directly across purposes to objective study of any kind.

Belief got us into this mess, it will not help to dig our way out. Seek to KNOW instead (and know how you know), it’s much harder - but it’s worth it.

It's as simple as this: convince me. I've been taught the Earth is round.

It is good that you recognize that you have been convinced (from childhood), but you must also recognize that “convincing” you out of that bias is no small task - even if you should want to!  It took a lot of time and repetition to “teach” you the shape of the earth, and countering that will likely require equivalent time and repetition.

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If you really believe the Earth is flat, it should be simple to make a strong case to try to prove it.

Not at all! Belief is arbitrary, and has no requirement for any sort of “strong case”.  You just choose to believe (take it on faith) and off you go.

There are plenty of strong cases for why the shape of the world is not and cannot be spherical - the most obvious being that water’s surface does not (and cannot due to its fundamental properties) curve the way the globe model requires it to.

 
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I am going into this as openminded as possible.

Keep at it! Ask questions, and validate the answers thoroughly regardless of source before accepting them!
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 09:15:12 AM by jack44556677 »

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Ski

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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2021, 10:00:17 AM »
They already have too much belief and not enough doubt.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Mikey T.

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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2021, 11:03:07 AM »
They already have too much belief and not enough doubt.
Plenty of doubt here.  But doubt without at least trying to acurately verify is kinda useless.  Basic physics, learn it, not memorize, learn as much of the why you can, then apply.  If verified, great, but double/triple/always check it, if not verified, find out why and develope an alternative theory.  But it has to be supported by the evidence and explained thoroughly if you are to be taken seriously, and you can't just dismiss anything that disagrees with your premise without explanation either.  Not like any FE person I have ever met.

Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2021, 03:16:56 PM »
Answer: You shouldn’t.  Belief has no place in knowledge
Except that caveat that knowledge is a subset of belief.
If you don't believe something to be true, you cannot know it to be true.

Baseless beliefs and rejection of science/paranoid rejection of "authority" is what has gotten us into this mess or rejecting reality.

It took a lot of time and repetition to “teach” you the shape of the earth, and countering that will likely require equivalent time and repetition.
For most people it took quite little time.
They were simply told it in school and believed it.
They are also the ones who it is easiest to con into thinking Earth is flat.
But with actual photos from space, that is a lot harder now.

But some actually understand the evidence for a RE, and some have even obtained some of that evidence themselves. They are the hard ones to con.

There are plenty of strong cases for why the shape of the world is not and cannot be spherical - the most obvious being that water’s surface
Will typically self-level (note: self-level, not self-flatten), which for the RE means it will curve around Earth.
This is what is repeatedly observed, such as with water obscuring the base of a distant object, even though both the observer and the distant are above water.

It is also repeatedly observed to curve at the small scale, rather than be magically flat like FEers claim.
Instead, the best they can get is that observations at a relatively small scale, such as in a sink or a pool, where the curvature is far too small to be measured, they find that it is consistent with both a FE and a RE.


does not (and cannot due to its fundamental properties) curve the way the globe model requires it to.
And what magical properties would that be which magically makes water flat even though it is observed to curve?
Perhaps you should try coming into this being as openminded as possible, rather than continuing to repeat the same false assertion that water will magically be flat, including at the scale of the globe, which is substantiated by nothing, and refuted by simple observations.

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Shifter

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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2021, 04:38:26 PM »
Reality is subjective


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Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2021, 10:55:10 AM »

Keep at it! Ask questions, and validate the answers thoroughly regardless of source before accepting them!

Cool.  Care to validate this then?

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There are plenty of strong cases for why the shape of the world is not and cannot be spherical - the most obvious being that water’s surface does not (and cannot due to its fundamental properties) curve the way the globe model requires it to.

Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2021, 10:31:40 AM »
Cool.  Care to validate this then?
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There are plenty of strong cases for why the shape of the world is not and cannot be spherical - the most obvious being that water’s surface does not (and cannot due to its fundamental properties) curve the way the globe model requires it to.

I do, and have!  I plan to repeat larger scale evaluations as well, but this law of hydrostatics warrants little doubt and can only be confirmed (which is why it remains law today, after several centuries)

I should clarify, it is not so much that water cannot conform to the shape required by the globe model - it is that it demonstrably doesn’t due to its fundamental properties and the “forces” it is naturally subjected to.  You only have to measure water’s surface at rest to validate (or refute, if you think you can - though you ought to recognize that you would be the first person to collect data that refutes the law) this law.

Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2021, 11:28:36 AM »
Except that caveat that knowledge is a subset of belief.

That’s wrong.  Belief and knowledge are different and distinct.  When you know, and know how you know, and can demonstrate what you know and how you know it, you do not require belief.  Belief is poison in regards to knowledge.  It is the bias we seek to remove in scientific/objective study.

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If you don't believe something to be true, you cannot know it to be true.

Also wrong, unless you are playing pedantic semantical games with the word truth - in which case it is TECHNICALLY correct.  Objective reality doesn’t care what you believe and is not impacted in any way by it.  Verifying possibility (to become actual knowledge, if not “truth”) is mired by belief.  If you do not validate and confirm something to be true (out here, in reality!), you cannot truly know it is!  You can merely/arbitrarily believe it, and this is the problem!

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Baseless beliefs and rejection of science/paranoid rejection of "authority" is what has gotten us into this mess or rejecting reality.

Partially correct.  The rejection of abject appeal to authority is simply logical and prudent, and adherence to such folly is very much a “baseless belief” devoid of the context history provides.

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For most people it took quite little time.
They were simply told it in school and believed it.

So you do recognize the problem with conditioning by rote under the guise of education (and abject appeal to authority) after all!  It is all too simple to fool a child; like taking candy from a baby.  However globe mythology doesn’t end with your first lesson, it becomes solidified and ingrained over years of repetition.  A parrot (or parroting child) may know to repeat the proper sounds to receive a reward (or avoid punishment) but the belief in those words comes later.

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They are also the ones who it is easiest to con into thinking Earth is flat.

Or more precisely, con them into BELIEVING; yes, I agree.  That which can be accepted with little to no evidence (the required arbitrary rote/repetition we spoke of) can be discarded or replaced just as easily.

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But with actual photos from space, that is a lot harder now.

And did you validate that? Or simply believe what you see on tv?

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But some actually understand the evidence for a RE, and some have even obtained some of that evidence themselves. They are the hard ones to con.

This is the process by which many flat earth researchers are born.  You begin with critically evaluating those evidences (created to fool children, and really only effective at doing so) , likely for the first time in your life, and the unvalidated assumptions required to interpret those evidences as “proof” of the worlds shape.  None of them bare further scrutiny, as I and many others have discovered through earnest research.  That does not, of course, establish the world’s true shape - there is only the one way to do that.

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which for the RE means it will curve around Earth.

In your belief, yes.  In reality, no. Level is always horizontal and flat, and there is only confirmation of this fact (the law of hydrostatics is one description of it).  You ought to notice, recognize, and accept that you have no contradictory data to refute that fact.

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This is what is repeatedly observed, such as with water obscuring the base of a distant object, even though both the observer and the distant are above water.

That is an optical illusion chiefly caused by refraction, but it serves as “proof” to many indoctrinated.

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It is also repeatedly observed to curve at the small scale, rather than be magically flat like FEers claim.

Surface tension is real, yes.  But at rest, water’s surface only has the one shape - flat, level, and horizontal (barring irrelevant meniscus effects which are an accepted caveat which do not conform in any way to the globe models requirements).

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Instead, the best they can get is that observations at a relatively small scale, such as in a sink or a pool, where the curvature is far too small to be measured, they find that it is consistent with both a FE and a RE.

Or rather they COULD be consistent with an RE, however no such “curve-a-level” has ever been measured and it is silly to expect it to be one day in the future.  You also have to discard the long distance (miles) observations and measurements of waters surface at rest which are flatly incompatible with RE and show that the law of hydrostatics does not alter on any scale tested (which is WHY it is a law, and has been for centuries).  There is only one way to refute such natural law, and it is conspicuously lacking - from you and everyone else.

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And what magical properties would that be which magically makes water flat even though it is observed to curve?

I endeavor to keep magic (and faith/belief) out of knowledge, especially scientific.  There are many conceptions as to why which are all seemingly valid.  One is water’s inability to support shear stress, another is the isostatic nature of gas pressure, yet another is the demonstrable behavior of all fluids (wether in the presence of significant gas pressure or not).  It has never been observed (I.e. measured) to curve - ever.  It has ONLY ever been measured NOT to curve at rest under natural conditions (again, barring the irrelevant non sequitur of minuscule surface tension artifacts), and this is extremely significant to any empiricist worth their salt.

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Perhaps you should try coming into this being as openminded as possible, rather than continuing to repeat the same false assertion that water will magically be flat, including at the scale of the globe, which is substantiated by nothing, and refuted by simple observations.

Practice what you preach!  The magic that you believe in, where unmeasured things serve as proof and optical illusions serve as measurement is getting in your way of objectively evaluating what is being said.

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NotSoSkeptical

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  • Flatness as in the shape of a water droplet.
Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2021, 11:30:19 AM »
The earth has a diameter of 12742km.

The average ocean depth is 3.68km

The deepest part of the ocean is 11.03km.

Scaling the earth down to say a 12cm ball... the average depth of the water would be roughly 30 microns, which is equivalent to the mist in fog.  At 30 microns the the surface of the ball would be wet but not dripping off.

To compare, a rain drop is considered to be between 0.5mm (500 microns) and 4mm (4000 microns)

Rabinoz RIP

Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2021, 11:34:56 AM »
Reality is subjective

To the observer, yes.  It is our interpretation of reality that is (and makes it) subjective.

The reality itself is manifestly objective, and this is the fundamental posit/axiom on which all science is built.