Poll

On the subject of transgender

Put the transwomen in women's sports, change rooms, homeless shelters, gyms, prisons, everything! They are women afterall
3 (9.4%)
Trans people should be treated as a mental health problem. They aren't the opposite sex so keep them out of it
4 (12.5%)
We shouldn't berate, discriminate or abuse trans people. But neither should we put women in danger to cater their every demand
11 (34.4%)
As long as they get the chop and have the muscle mass of a soy boy it's all good
0 (0%)
Make a new class. Male, female, trans. Trans men/women belong in there
3 (9.4%)
I don't mind what an adult chooses but kids absolutely should grow up first. Trans surgery on kids is child abuse
11 (34.4%)
I don't care or have an opinion about this
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 19

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The Great Gender Bender Debate

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2021, 10:24:24 AM »
Only females can live their lives as females. Jenner is a creep who stole his 10yr old daughter's underwear https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/caitlyn-jenner-at-chicago-house-event/62376/

You don't have to use anyone's preferred pronouns. They can live their life just fine without controlling the speech of others. Obviously, you will get banned from corporate social media, fired, threatened, etc if you choose to be truthful.

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Quote from: Thork on November 27, 2012, 12:25:43 PM
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.
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markjo

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2021, 10:33:32 AM »
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 10:03:01 AM
I can accept screwing up on that. I don't think Bruce Jenner was ever popular in Australian circles and the only information found lately about him or (now Caitlin) are 'magazines' I don't expose myself much to. Wiki is also brief on the detail about the transition (your link had more)
Which means that you probably missed her on the Comedy Central Roast of Alec Baldwin.


Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 10:03:01 AM
I still don't think of Caitlyn as a real woman. Or any transwomen as real women.
The thing is, it isn't about how you feel about them.  It's how they feel about themselves.  Puberty is already hard enough under normal circumstances, but not being able to figure out why you don't feel what society tells you that you're supposed to feel can't be easy.

Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 10:03:01 AM
I don't think that's hateful as that's not hating the person. I just don't see how changing a pronoun and superficial appearence can just change what you ultimately are. You can change what people call you. Or even see you as, but you can't change fundamentally what you are or the experience and challenges of the other gender.
Try to think of it as trying to feel comfortable in your own skin when your skin doesn't represent who you feel that you are.  I would think that it's somewhere along the same lines as when gay people say that they're living a lie when they try to play it straight.
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JJA

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2021, 10:41:20 AM »
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 10:12:07 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 09:35:49 AM
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 08:46:52 AM
In Bruce / Caitlin's case, I'm not even convinced the trans is genuine. I know Americans can do some crazy shit to stay in the limelight and that whole Kardashian clan and TV show is the most superficial bunch of people I've ever seen. And yeah I don't see transwomen as 'real' women

There is your major problem.  It's not up to you to decide how someone else feels about themselves. 

If you have a problem with trans women that's your issue, not theirs.

'problem' with the people is not the word. That's you stretching it a fair bit

An issue with a system that can take advantage of women in the name of wokeness

I could walk into a women's changeroom at the pool and when I'm yelled at to get out and being a perve, can turn it around on them and blow them up for being intolerant to my gender fluidity. It's nonsense

You are free to disagree of course. But I don't see Caitlyn as a real woman. She can look the part but never be the part. Not for reals. Disagree. It's cool man 8)

I do disagree.

It's a problem to the point where you don't want to call a person by their real name. You can't accept their feelings to the point where you intentionally mis-gender them and call them by the wrong name, and declare that you have decided that their feelings are not genuine. She's not a 'real' woman to you. Because you, a male, know what a real woman is... you know how she feels and sees herself more than she does apparently. So you intentionally insult and belittle her.

I'd call that a problem. If I constantly called you Shitter and called you a hormonal bitch because you don't act like I think a Real Man should, I'd rightly be called out for being an intolerant ass.
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Jamie

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2021, 10:42:58 AM »
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 10:41:20 AM
I do disagree.

It's a problem to the point where you don't want to call a person by their real name. You can't accept their feelings to the point where you intentionally mis-gender them and call them by the wrong name, and declare that you have decided that their feelings are not genuine. She's not a 'real' woman to you. Because you, a male, know what a real woman is... you know how she feels and sees herself more than she does apparently. So you intentionally insult and belittle her.

I'd call that a problem. If I constantly called you Shitter and called you a hormonal bitch because you don't act like I think a Real Man should, I'd rightly be called out for being an intolerant ass.

TL;DR: You're intentionally being an ass.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2021, 10:47:46 AM »
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 10:41:20 AM
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 10:12:07 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 09:35:49 AM
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 08:46:52 AM
In Bruce / Caitlin's case, I'm not even convinced the trans is genuine. I know Americans can do some crazy shit to stay in the limelight and that whole Kardashian clan and TV show is the most superficial bunch of people I've ever seen. And yeah I don't see transwomen as 'real' women

There is your major problem.  It's not up to you to decide how someone else feels about themselves. 

If you have a problem with trans women that's your issue, not theirs.

'problem' with the people is not the word. That's you stretching it a fair bit

An issue with a system that can take advantage of women in the name of wokeness

I could walk into a women's changeroom at the pool and when I'm yelled at to get out and being a perve, can turn it around on them and blow them up for being intolerant to my gender fluidity. It's nonsense

You are free to disagree of course. But I don't see Caitlyn as a real woman. She can look the part but never be the part. Not for reals. Disagree. It's cool man 8)

I do disagree.

It's a problem to the point where you don't want to call a person by their real name. You can't accept their feelings to the point where you intentionally mis-gender them and call them by the wrong name, and declare that you have decided that their feelings are not genuine. She's not a 'real' woman to you. Because you, a male, know what a real woman is... you know how she feels and sees herself more than she does apparently. So you intentionally insult and belittle her.

I'd call that a problem. If I constantly called you Shitter and called you a hormonal bitch because you don't act like I think a Real Man should, I'd rightly be called out for being an intolerant ass.

Is she here? Am I saying it to her face? Stop virtue signalling for her/him/it whatever lol

Calling me shitter when I'm here would make you an arse if its intent was to hurt me knowing I'm here to read it. But personally I don't care. You wouldn't be the first and I really take no issue with a nickname on a nickname

If Caitlyn was on here or I met her face to face, I'd call her how she likes no problem.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2021, 10:53:02 AM »
I call Shifter Shitler all the time, I apologize for literally murdering you all those times!
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Quote from: Thork on November 27, 2012, 12:25:43 PM
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.
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JJA

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2021, 10:53:18 AM »
Quote from: Jamie on January 26, 2021, 10:42:58 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 10:41:20 AM
I do disagree.

It's a problem to the point where you don't want to call a person by their real name. You can't accept their feelings to the point where you intentionally mis-gender them and call them by the wrong name, and declare that you have decided that their feelings are not genuine. She's not a 'real' woman to you. Because you, a male, know what a real woman is... you know how she feels and sees herself more than she does apparently. So you intentionally insult and belittle her.

I'd call that a problem. If I constantly called you Shitter and called you a hormonal bitch because you don't act like I think a Real Man should, I'd rightly be called out for being an intolerant ass.

TL;DR: You're intentionally being an ass.

Everything I do is intentional. Except the things that are not.  :P
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JJA

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2021, 10:56:57 AM »
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 10:47:46 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 10:41:20 AM
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 10:12:07 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 09:35:49 AM
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 08:46:52 AM
In Bruce / Caitlin's case, I'm not even convinced the trans is genuine. I know Americans can do some crazy shit to stay in the limelight and that whole Kardashian clan and TV show is the most superficial bunch of people I've ever seen. And yeah I don't see transwomen as 'real' women

There is your major problem.  It's not up to you to decide how someone else feels about themselves. 

If you have a problem with trans women that's your issue, not theirs.

'problem' with the people is not the word. That's you stretching it a fair bit

An issue with a system that can take advantage of women in the name of wokeness

I could walk into a women's changeroom at the pool and when I'm yelled at to get out and being a perve, can turn it around on them and blow them up for being intolerant to my gender fluidity. It's nonsense

You are free to disagree of course. But I don't see Caitlyn as a real woman. She can look the part but never be the part. Not for reals. Disagree. It's cool man 8)

I do disagree.

It's a problem to the point where you don't want to call a person by their real name. You can't accept their feelings to the point where you intentionally mis-gender them and call them by the wrong name, and declare that you have decided that their feelings are not genuine. She's not a 'real' woman to you. Because you, a male, know what a real woman is... you know how she feels and sees herself more than she does apparently. So you intentionally insult and belittle her.

I'd call that a problem. If I constantly called you Shitter and called you a hormonal bitch because you don't act like I think a Real Man should, I'd rightly be called out for being an intolerant ass.

Is she here? Am I saying it to her face? Stop virtue signalling for her/him/it whatever lol

Calling me shitter when I'm here would make you an arse if its intent was to hurt me knowing I'm here to read it. But personally I don't care. You wouldn't be the first and I really take no issue with a nickname on a nickname

If Caitlyn was on here or I met her face to face, I'd call her how she likes no problem.

What's your intent calling her by the wrong name and gender then? You did it on purpose, you did it intentionally... so why? So it's ok to insult people if they probably won't see it? I can say vile racist things as long as my targets don't hear it? That makes it ok?

Don't forget Goggle indexes these. It's not unreasonable to think she might have it brought to her attention. This is a public forum, and you are publicly shaming someone because you don't like that they don't conform to your views of how you think they should dress and behave and think about themselves.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2021, 11:02:13 AM »
Oh god, the hyperbole. Refusing to call a man she or her is not shaming them. Pointing out he's a creep who murdered a woman with his car should shame him, but apparently he doesn't mind.
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Quote from: Thork on November 27, 2012, 12:25:43 PM
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2021, 11:03:34 AM »
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 10:56:57 AM
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 10:47:46 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 10:41:20 AM
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 10:12:07 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 09:35:49 AM
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 08:46:52 AM
In Bruce / Caitlin's case, I'm not even convinced the trans is genuine. I know Americans can do some crazy shit to stay in the limelight and that whole Kardashian clan and TV show is the most superficial bunch of people I've ever seen. And yeah I don't see transwomen as 'real' women

There is your major problem.  It's not up to you to decide how someone else feels about themselves. 

If you have a problem with trans women that's your issue, not theirs.

'problem' with the people is not the word. That's you stretching it a fair bit

An issue with a system that can take advantage of women in the name of wokeness

I could walk into a women's changeroom at the pool and when I'm yelled at to get out and being a perve, can turn it around on them and blow them up for being intolerant to my gender fluidity. It's nonsense

You are free to disagree of course. But I don't see Caitlyn as a real woman. She can look the part but never be the part. Not for reals. Disagree. It's cool man 8)

I do disagree.

It's a problem to the point where you don't want to call a person by their real name. You can't accept their feelings to the point where you intentionally mis-gender them and call them by the wrong name, and declare that you have decided that their feelings are not genuine. She's not a 'real' woman to you. Because you, a male, know what a real woman is... you know how she feels and sees herself more than she does apparently. So you intentionally insult and belittle her.

I'd call that a problem. If I constantly called you Shitter and called you a hormonal bitch because you don't act like I think a Real Man should, I'd rightly be called out for being an intolerant ass.

Is she here? Am I saying it to her face? Stop virtue signalling for her/him/it whatever lol

Calling me shitter when I'm here would make you an arse if its intent was to hurt me knowing I'm here to read it. But personally I don't care. You wouldn't be the first and I really take no issue with a nickname on a nickname

If Caitlyn was on here or I met her face to face, I'd call her how she likes no problem.

What's your intent calling her by the wrong name and gender then? You did it on purpose, you did it intentionally... so why? So it's ok to insult people if they probably won't see it? I can say vile racist things as long as my targets don't hear it? That makes it ok?

Don't forget Goggle indexes these. It's not unreasonable to think she might have it brought to her attention. This is a public forum, and you are publicly shaming someone because you don't like that they don't conform to your views of how you think they should dress and behave and think about themselves.

Hmm. Calling a person who lived 65 years as a bloke a he now = same level as arseholery as racism ::)

There's no hate from me. It's laziness. If I'm thinking Bruce at the time my thumb is mashing the keypad, it does he. If Caitlyn, I do she

Even Caitlyn admitted in 2017 it was hard to let the old Bruce go but a little bit of Bruce still lives inside her


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Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

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JJA

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2021, 11:08:50 AM »
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on January 26, 2021, 11:02:13 AM
Oh god, the hyperbole. Refusing to call a man she or her is not shaming them. Pointing out he's a creep who murdered a woman with his car should shame him, but apparently he doesn't mind.

I agree that murdering someone with a car should shame her.

I also feel that name calling and intentional mis-gendering is insulting, rude and yes, often meant to shame or attack.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2021, 11:13:37 AM »
Words are violence!
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Quote from: Thork on November 27, 2012, 12:25:43 PM
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.
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JJA

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2021, 11:15:12 AM »
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 11:03:34 AM
Hmm. Calling a person who lived 65 years as a bloke a he now = same level as arseholery as racism ::)

Ignoring how someone wants to be called is an asshole thing to do, regardless if you are calling them a n-gger or calling them a he.

I don't understand why this is so hard for some people to just be nice to others. Yeah I'm an asshole too but seriously, why all the angst over someones name.  Why does it harm you SO badly that a person, a human being might want to be called by a name that makes them feel good instead of one that makes them feel bad?

What's the point of needing to judge people worthy of being called their own name? Nope, this person doesn't derseve it. But that one does. And this group doesn't.

Jebus.

So much angst over gender roles.  Imagine if we just, you know, didn't care or get upset about it. 
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Wolvaccine

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2021, 11:18:12 AM »
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 11:08:50 AM
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on January 26, 2021, 11:02:13 AM
Oh god, the hyperbole. Refusing to call a man she or her is not shaming them. Pointing out he's a creep who murdered a woman with his car should shame him, but apparently he doesn't mind.

I agree that murdering someone with a car should shame her.

I also feel that name calling and intentional mis-gendering is insulting, rude and yes, often meant to shame or attack.

This isn't like deliberately calling me a woman despite the fact I am a man and have been and looked like one my whole life

Caitlyn lived as Bruce for 65 years. It's hardly the same. And no I wouldn't look at her and say 'he' to be a jerk. But here I think of her with both names. Despite Google almost erasing the name Bruce entirely lol

Caitlyn looks female but isn't. Nothing she could ever do will alter that fact. Saying 'she' doesn't change anything about that



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Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2021, 11:20:28 AM »
You know what's really racists?  TW claiming that not being allowed into every female space is the same as Jim Crow. I have seen so many of them say this! They also like to say "if black women are women, then trans women are women".

Claiming this is "angst over gender rolls" really shows how little you understand about this issue. Transwomen don't want to take on women's gender rolls, you don't see them pining away about wanting to clean the house.
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Quote from: Thork on November 27, 2012, 12:25:43 PM
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.
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JJA

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2021, 11:25:07 AM »
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 11:18:12 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 11:08:50 AM
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on January 26, 2021, 11:02:13 AM
Oh god, the hyperbole. Refusing to call a man she or her is not shaming them. Pointing out he's a creep who murdered a woman with his car should shame him, but apparently he doesn't mind.

I agree that murdering someone with a car should shame her.

I also feel that name calling and intentional mis-gendering is insulting, rude and yes, often meant to shame or attack.

This isn't like deliberately calling me a woman despite the fact I am a man and have been and looked like one my whole life

Caitlyn lived as Bruce for 65 years. It's hardly the same. And no I wouldn't look at her and say 'he' to be a jerk. But here I think of her with both names. Despite Google almost erasing the name Bruce entirely lol

Caitlyn looks female but isn't. Nothing she could ever do will alter that fact. Saying 'she' doesn't change anything about that

Well, that's your opinion. You have your very specific and limited ideas of what gender is, others have theirs.

There are men who feel they are women their whole lives and suffer silently until they die without doing anything because they can't deal with the fallout they would get from family, friends and coworkers. They don't want to deal with intolerant people. There is probably someone reading this right now who wishes their bodies matched their feelings and are scared of how others will react... wonder what they think of you?
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GlaringEye

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2021, 11:48:19 AM »
I have several transwomen friends, in different transition stages. One of them started her transition as a teenager, and she has lived her entire adult life as a woman. Taking into account kids until around 9-10 years old act more or less the same barring their choice of toys, she lived less than  8 years of being an anxious, awkward "boy". Should we treat her as a man, when she never was to begin with?

Another friend of mine started her transition when she was 32. She didn't just "notice" she wasn't feeling like a man at that age, though. For decades, she suppressed her feelings, forcing herself to be more manly by going to the gym in an attempt to erase her own identity. At 32 she just couldn't keep going and had to choose between accepting what she was or end it all. Because of her decision her parents disowned her, lost many friends and had to change jobs.

All of my trans friends have suffered a lot because of their identity. They may not bleed on a monthly basis, nor will they ever have kids, but so what? They aren't monsters sneaking into women's bathrooms to rape everyone there.

They aren't there for fame or to get an easier life. Much to the contrary, they often are insulted, ridiculed. Other women deny them a seat in their safe spaces even when my friends also suffer from unwanted attention and sexual advances by assholes.

But no, let's keep denying their reality and their feelings, right? Do they like to play sports? Fuck them, let's get them banned of women's leagues. Do they feel threatened? Fuck them, let's kick them out of any safe place. Do they ask to be treated as females? Fuck them, let's keep using their old names an make them revisit traumatic experiences.

Yeah, let's be monsters.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2021, 11:50:13 AM »
Are you friends HSTS or AGPs?
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Quote from: Thork on November 27, 2012, 12:25:43 PM
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2021, 11:58:19 AM »
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 11:25:07 AM
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 11:18:12 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 11:08:50 AM
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on January 26, 2021, 11:02:13 AM
Oh god, the hyperbole. Refusing to call a man she or her is not shaming them. Pointing out he's a creep who murdered a woman with his car should shame him, but apparently he doesn't mind.

I agree that murdering someone with a car should shame her.

I also feel that name calling and intentional mis-gendering is insulting, rude and yes, often meant to shame or attack.

This isn't like deliberately calling me a woman despite the fact I am a man and have been and looked like one my whole life

Caitlyn lived as Bruce for 65 years. It's hardly the same. And no I wouldn't look at her and say 'he' to be a jerk. But here I think of her with both names. Despite Google almost erasing the name Bruce entirely lol

Caitlyn looks female but isn't. Nothing she could ever do will alter that fact. Saying 'she' doesn't change anything about that

Well, that's your opinion. You have your very specific and limited ideas of what gender is, others have theirs.

There are men who feel they are women their whole lives and suffer silently until they die without doing anything because they can't deal with the fallout they would get from family, friends and coworkers. They don't want to deal with intolerant people. There is probably someone reading this right now who wishes their bodies matched their feelings and are scared of how others will react... wonder what they think of you?

Really dude? You want to lump me in with all the bigots and haters because I used a male pronoun on a person who lived as a man for 65 years?

Go read what I have written on the subject. Stop making up your own reality on what you would have liked me to say because you enjoy being combative with every one
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Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place
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JJA

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2021, 12:06:30 PM »
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 11:58:19 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 11:25:07 AM
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 11:18:12 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 11:08:50 AM
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on January 26, 2021, 11:02:13 AM
Oh god, the hyperbole. Refusing to call a man she or her is not shaming them. Pointing out he's a creep who murdered a woman with his car should shame him, but apparently he doesn't mind.

I agree that murdering someone with a car should shame her.

I also feel that name calling and intentional mis-gendering is insulting, rude and yes, often meant to shame or attack.

This isn't like deliberately calling me a woman despite the fact I am a man and have been and looked like one my whole life

Caitlyn lived as Bruce for 65 years. It's hardly the same. And no I wouldn't look at her and say 'he' to be a jerk. But here I think of her with both names. Despite Google almost erasing the name Bruce entirely lol

Caitlyn looks female but isn't. Nothing she could ever do will alter that fact. Saying 'she' doesn't change anything about that

Well, that's your opinion. You have your very specific and limited ideas of what gender is, others have theirs.

There are men who feel they are women their whole lives and suffer silently until they die without doing anything because they can't deal with the fallout they would get from family, friends and coworkers. They don't want to deal with intolerant people. There is probably someone reading this right now who wishes their bodies matched their feelings and are scared of how others will react... wonder what they think of you?

Really dude? You want to lump me in with all the bigots and haters because I used a male pronoun on a person who lived as a man for 65 years?

Go read what I have written on the subject. Stop making up your own reality on what you would have liked me to say because you enjoy being combative with every one

Yup.  I lump you in with people who are intolerant of others feelings and use words to express your dislike and disdain for them.  Call it what you will.

You're even doing it again right now, calling her a man because she didn't transition as early as YOU feel she should have to be called a woman, which is actually never in your opinion so why even bring up the 65 years thing in the first place?  Just your justifying your dislike for them with a made up reason.

Weren't you just complaining a while back how you were bored and wanted some users to come back to the site and entertain you? Am I not entertaining enough? :p
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GlaringEye

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2021, 12:11:59 PM »
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 11:58:19 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 11:25:07 AM
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 11:18:12 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 11:08:50 AM
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on January 26, 2021, 11:02:13 AM
Oh god, the hyperbole. Refusing to call a man she or her is not shaming them. Pointing out he's a creep who murdered a woman with his car should shame him, but apparently he doesn't mind.

I agree that murdering someone with a car should shame her.

I also feel that name calling and intentional mis-gendering is insulting, rude and yes, often meant to shame or attack.

This isn't like deliberately calling me a woman despite the fact I am a man and have been and looked like one my whole life

Caitlyn lived as Bruce for 65 years. It's hardly the same. And no I wouldn't look at her and say 'he' to be a jerk. But here I think of her with both names. Despite Google almost erasing the name Bruce entirely lol

Caitlyn looks female but isn't. Nothing she could ever do will alter that fact. Saying 'she' doesn't change anything about that

Well, that's your opinion. You have your very specific and limited ideas of what gender is, others have theirs.

There are men who feel they are women their whole lives and suffer silently until they die without doing anything because they can't deal with the fallout they would get from family, friends and coworkers. They don't want to deal with intolerant people. There is probably someone reading this right now who wishes their bodies matched their feelings and are scared of how others will react... wonder what they think of you?

Really dude? You want to lump me in with all the bigots and haters because I used a male pronoun on a person who lived as a man for 65 years?

Go read what I have written on the subject. Stop making up your own reality on what you would have liked me to say because you enjoy being combative with every one

I'm going to treat you like a kid because you spent 18 years being one! I don't care if you feel like an adult "now", you were born a kid and will always be one in my opinion.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2021, 12:13:34 PM »
Quote from: GlaringEye on January 26, 2021, 11:48:19 AM
I have several transwomen friends, in different transition stages. One of them started her transition as a teenager, and she has lived her entire adult life as a woman. Taking into account kids until around 9-10 years old act more or less the same barring their choice of toys, she lived less than  8 years of being an anxious, awkward "boy". Should we treat her as a man, when she never was to begin with?

Another friend of mine started her transition when she was 32. She didn't just "notice" she wasn't feeling like a man at that age, though. For decades, she suppressed her feelings, forcing herself to be more manly by going to the gym in an attempt to erase her own identity. At 32 she just couldn't keep going and had to choose between accepting what she was or end it all. Because of her decision her parents disowned her, lost many friends and had to change jobs.

All of my trans friends have suffered a lot because of their identity. They may not bleed on a monthly basis, nor will they ever have kids, but so what? They aren't monsters sneaking into women's bathrooms to rape everyone there.

They aren't there for fame or to get an easier life. Much to the contrary, they often are insulted, ridiculed. Other women deny them a seat in their safe spaces even when my friends also suffer from unwanted attention and sexual advances by assholes.

But no, let's keep denying their reality and their feelings, right? Do they like to play sports? Fuck them, let's get them banned of women's leagues. Do they feel threatened? Fuck them, let's kick them out of any safe place. Do they ask to be treated as females? Fuck them, let's keep using their old names an make them revisit traumatic experiences.

Yeah, let's be monsters.

Whose calling them monsters. You look at something and blow it way up. It's like you guys just want there to be an issue to rage against for ragingbsake

Society should absolutely be more accepting of the reality and dignity of trans people. Trans people should be allowed to feel good in their own skin whether they change their body or not. But sorry, just like we can't all be astronauts no matter how much we might want to they can't be an actual female. That is just the harsh and bitter reality.

I would fully support a trans term as in trans safe spaces, trans sport teams etc. You would think that would be a win because it normalises trans people in society. At the moment, there is not a place making them feel out of place. And yes, that sucks

But also think how much it sucks for a system that allows women to be abused or taken advantage of to appease to wokeness. Or children getting puberty blockers and surgery because they are confused.

Like I said earlier. Society should ditch the gendered colours and toys. Let them decide on their own. If I told my son 'only girls like pink, it's a girls colour' you can see how that would screw him up.

I know this is tabloid Daily Mail. First link I could find on the story

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7950655/Mother-trying-transition-son-girl-loses-court-judge-orders-parents-joint-custody.html

What the mother was trying to do to her son was disgusting and if she succeeded, irreversible child abuse

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Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place
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Wolvaccine

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2021, 12:14:10 PM »
Quote from: GlaringEye on January 26, 2021, 12:11:59 PM
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 11:58:19 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 11:25:07 AM
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 11:18:12 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 11:08:50 AM
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on January 26, 2021, 11:02:13 AM
Oh god, the hyperbole. Refusing to call a man she or her is not shaming them. Pointing out he's a creep who murdered a woman with his car should shame him, but apparently he doesn't mind.

I agree that murdering someone with a car should shame her.

I also feel that name calling and intentional mis-gendering is insulting, rude and yes, often meant to shame or attack.

This isn't like deliberately calling me a woman despite the fact I am a man and have been and looked like one my whole life

Caitlyn lived as Bruce for 65 years. It's hardly the same. And no I wouldn't look at her and say 'he' to be a jerk. But here I think of her with both names. Despite Google almost erasing the name Bruce entirely lol

Caitlyn looks female but isn't. Nothing she could ever do will alter that fact. Saying 'she' doesn't change anything about that

Well, that's your opinion. You have your very specific and limited ideas of what gender is, others have theirs.

There are men who feel they are women their whole lives and suffer silently until they die without doing anything because they can't deal with the fallout they would get from family, friends and coworkers. They don't want to deal with intolerant people. There is probably someone reading this right now who wishes their bodies matched their feelings and are scared of how others will react... wonder what they think of you?

Really dude? You want to lump me in with all the bigots and haters because I used a male pronoun on a person who lived as a man for 65 years?

Go read what I have written on the subject. Stop making up your own reality on what you would have liked me to say because you enjoy being combative with every one

I'm going to treat you like a kid because you spent 18 years being one! I don't care if you feel like an adult "now", you were born a kid and will always be one in my opinion.

Yeah, great troll. Almost thought you were serious on the topic ::)
Logged

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place
*

Wolvaccine

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #53 on: January 26, 2021, 12:16:18 PM »
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 12:06:30 PM
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 11:58:19 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 11:25:07 AM
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 11:18:12 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 11:08:50 AM
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on January 26, 2021, 11:02:13 AM
Oh god, the hyperbole. Refusing to call a man she or her is not shaming them. Pointing out he's a creep who murdered a woman with his car should shame him, but apparently he doesn't mind.

I agree that murdering someone with a car should shame her.

I also feel that name calling and intentional mis-gendering is insulting, rude and yes, often meant to shame or attack.

This isn't like deliberately calling me a woman despite the fact I am a man and have been and looked like one my whole life

Caitlyn lived as Bruce for 65 years. It's hardly the same. And no I wouldn't look at her and say 'he' to be a jerk. But here I think of her with both names. Despite Google almost erasing the name Bruce entirely lol

Caitlyn looks female but isn't. Nothing she could ever do will alter that fact. Saying 'she' doesn't change anything about that

Well, that's your opinion. You have your very specific and limited ideas of what gender is, others have theirs.

There are men who feel they are women their whole lives and suffer silently until they die without doing anything because they can't deal with the fallout they would get from family, friends and coworkers. They don't want to deal with intolerant people. There is probably someone reading this right now who wishes their bodies matched their feelings and are scared of how others will react... wonder what they think of you?

Really dude? You want to lump me in with all the bigots and haters because I used a male pronoun on a person who lived as a man for 65 years?

Go read what I have written on the subject. Stop making up your own reality on what you would have liked me to say because you enjoy being combative with every one

Yup.  I lump you in with people who are intolerant of others feelings and use words to express your dislike and disdain for them.  Call it what you will.

You're even doing it again right now, calling her a man because she didn't transition as early as YOU feel she should have to be called a woman, which is actually never in your opinion so why even bring up the 65 years thing in the first place?  Just your justifying your dislike for them with a made up reason.

Weren't you just complaining a while back how you were bored and wanted some users to come back to the site and entertain you? Am I not entertaining enough? :p

She lived 65 years under the name 'Bruce' and as a man, correct? So saying she lived 65 years as a man is not being an arsehole. It also means the remaining years I am saying she is living as a woman

Manufacturing outrage much? Give it a rest. Ever thought maybe you're the one that's upset? Virtue signalling must be stressful
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Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place
*

JJA

  • 6873
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  • Math is math!
Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #54 on: January 26, 2021, 12:26:45 PM »
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 12:06:30 PM
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 11:58:19 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 11:25:07 AM
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 11:18:12 AM
Quote from: JJA on January 26, 2021, 11:08:50 AM
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on January 26, 2021, 11:02:13 AM
Oh god, the hyperbole. Refusing to call a man she or her is not shaming them. Pointing out he's a creep who murdered a woman with his car should shame him, but apparently he doesn't mind.

I agree that murdering someone with a car should shame her.

I also feel that name calling and intentional mis-gendering is insulting, rude and yes, often meant to shame or attack.

This isn't like deliberately calling me a woman despite the fact I am a man and have been and looked like one my whole life

Caitlyn lived as Bruce for 65 years. It's hardly the same. And no I wouldn't look at her and say 'he' to be a jerk. But here I think of her with both names. Despite Google almost erasing the name Bruce entirely lol

Caitlyn looks female but isn't. Nothing she could ever do will alter that fact. Saying 'she' doesn't change anything about that

Well, that's your opinion. You have your very specific and limited ideas of what gender is, others have theirs.

There are men who feel they are women their whole lives and suffer silently until they die without doing anything because they can't deal with the fallout they would get from family, friends and coworkers. They don't want to deal with intolerant people. There is probably someone reading this right now who wishes their bodies matched their feelings and are scared of how others will react... wonder what they think of you?

Really dude? You want to lump me in with all the bigots and haters because I used a male pronoun on a person who lived as a man for 65 years?

Go read what I have written on the subject. Stop making up your own reality on what you would have liked me to say because you enjoy being combative with every one

Yup.  I lump you in with people who are intolerant of others feelings and use words to express your dislike and disdain for them.  Call it what you will.

You're even doing it again right now, calling her a man because she didn't transition as early as YOU feel she should have to be called a woman, which is actually never in your opinion so why even bring up the 65 years thing in the first place?  Just your justifying your dislike for them with a made up reason.

Weren't you just complaining a while back how you were bored and wanted some users to come back to the site and entertain you? Am I not entertaining enough? :p

She lived 65 years under the name 'Bruce' and as a man, correct? So saying she lived 65 years as a man is not being an arsehole. It also means the remaining years I am saying she is living as a woman

Manufacturing outrage much? Give it a rest. Ever thought maybe you're the one that's upset? Virtue signalling must be stressful

Do you think I'm unaware that I'm upset?  I assure you, I'm quite aware of my feelings. :)

You keep bring up the "lived 65 years as a man" as an excuse for why you think she's not a real woman.  So I'm not complaining you are bringing it up, I'm pointing you that it's not an excuse for your behavior, as much as you try and justify it to be.

And careful with the name calling, I'm fired up but I've avoided doing the same back to you.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2021, 12:37:51 PM »
What name calling? Virtue signalling? How is that 'name calling' I didn't use it as a throw away. To me that looks like what you're doing. As for name calling I think you'll find you have levelled a few at me anyway

But yes. 65 years as a man, as Bruce. TRANSITIONED to now live as Caitlyn, as a woman. Not a difficult concept. That's what transitioned means. You go from one thing, to another. So it's not wrong to say Caitlyns first 65 years was lived as a man.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2021, 12:40:07 PM by Shifter »
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Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place
*

GlaringEye

  • 358
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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2021, 12:41:46 PM »
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 12:13:34 PM
Whose calling them monsters. You look at something and blow it way up. It's like you guys just want there to be an issue to rage against for ragingbsake

Society should absolutely be more accepting of the reality and dignity of trans people. Trans people should be allowed to feel good in their own skin whether they change their body or not. But sorry, just like we can't all be astronauts no matter how much we might want to they can't be an actual female. That is just the harsh and bitter reality.

I would fully support a trans term as in trans safe spaces, trans sport teams etc. You would think that would be a win because it normalises trans people in society. At the moment, there is not a place making them feel out of place. And yes, that sucks

But also think how much it sucks for a system that allows women to be abused or taken advantage of to appease to wokeness. Or children getting puberty blockers and surgery because they are confused.

Like I said earlier. Society should ditch the gendered colours and toys. Let them decide on their own. If I told my son 'only girls like pink, it's a girls colour' you can see how that would screw him up.

I know this is tabloid Daily Mail. First link I could find on the story

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7950655/Mother-trying-transition-son-girl-loses-court-judge-orders-parents-joint-custody.html

What the mother was trying to do to her son was disgusting and if she succeeded, irreversible child abuse

You seem to miss the point. Segregation is the last thing they want. They're sacrificing their while life to that point to be recognized as women or men, not be lumped together as a kind of "third gender", to be left aside in a corner.

And yes, some people may abuse the law and harm others. Happens all the time, it sucks and those people should be punished by the law. But don't try to sell it like society is going down the drain, a slippery slope to dystopian gender anarchy.

That's what I mean when I say monster. SCG's whole point is about trans women being just men wanting to get into women's spaces to rape them all. You talk about child abuse, and Caitlyn transitioning just for fame. Both of you forget about the thousands of people who are suffering because of society's inability to recognize and accept their dysphoria. Use their chosen pronouns, and accept that someone who looks, acts, dresses and asks you to refer them to as a woman may feel really hurt when you call her as him.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2021, 12:42:59 PM »
Welcome to the terven, Shitler.
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Quote from: Thork on November 27, 2012, 12:25:43 PM
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.
*

Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2021, 12:48:52 PM »
They are incapable of having a conversation without using hyperbole. I never said all transwomen want to transition so they can rape women in the bathroom. They will completely ignore the AGPs taking advantage of all this trans love bombing, they ignore how easy self id is to abuse. They ignore the actual trans people who disagree with all this nonsense, and call them truscum.

They will also ignore the threats of death and rape dished out to any woman who wants to have a say in the laws being created around all this.

They will ignore the massive increase in teen girls suddenly identifying as boys.

They will ignore the pharmaceutical industry push behind creating life long patients who need expensive medical treatment in order to be their real selves.

If you have irl trans friends who trust you enough to be honest. Ask them what they think about the fetishists claiming they are women.
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Quote from: Thork on November 27, 2012, 12:25:43 PM
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.
*

JJA

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  • Math is math!
Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2021, 12:51:23 PM »
Quote from: Shifter on January 26, 2021, 12:37:51 PM
What name calling? Virtue signalling? How is that 'name calling' I didn't use it as a throw away. To me that looks like what you're doing. As for name calling I think you'll find you have levelled a few at me anyway

But yes. 65 years as a man, as Bruce. TRANSITIONED to now live as Caitlyn, as a woman. Not a difficult concept. That's what transitioned means. You go from one thing, to another. So it's not wrong to say Caitlyns first 65 years was lived as a man.

Yes, virtue signaling.  Claiming you know my inner thoughts and you have determined I'm lying about my views just to get accolades from, well not from many on this site, that's for sure. Not sure who you think I'm signaling to here.

It's the difference between saying that you deciding how other people feel about themselves is wrong, and calling you a homophobic biggot.

It's not wrong to say a simple fact that someone lived 65 years as a man.  It's wrong for you to use that as your excuse why you call them the wrong name and gender and feel they don't deserve to be treated like a human being.  Quit playing dumb, you didn't just state that as a random fact, you used it repeatedly as an excuse for your actions.
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