ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist

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Stash

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #840 on: March 03, 2021, 01:26:05 AM »
2.When people deliberately make up so called theories with unprovable physical set ups except for equations that only explain obscure concepts.

That's hilarious. You literally just described denpressure except you don't even have any simple equations to back it up.

Denpressure:

- Made up so called theory, CHECK
- Unprovable physical set ups, CHECK

It's provable but people like you will never get it because your brains are on some kind of spectrum, in my opinion.

What's provable? What's provable about the carbonite crystal projecting holographic images of the Sun, Moon, & Stars onto a breathing dome that covers the earth?

It's clearly not a matter of me "getting it", or getting anything. What's to get? Have you offered any proof before that I just didn't "get"? If so, my apologies. Can you repost your proof and I promise I'll keep an open mind and stay off the spectrum I'm apparently on?

In other words, what's the proof you have provided that I have failed to get?

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #841 on: March 03, 2021, 01:57:44 AM »
In this tangent though, I would ask why you respond to everyone?  You have just said you dont understand the concepts the way other people do, and clearly other people do not understand your ideas, so isn't it just bickering over things the each side doesnt understand?  You are telling people that the concepts that you do not understand are nonsense, and vice versa?  If you are just interested in sharing your alternative thoughts and reading others, why the endless back and forth over your opinions?  What do you gain?  If you are really interested in developing your ideas, why dont you take the afternoon off posting, go buy a small vacuum pump and chamber, and try to show how magnetism and downward forces have some proportionality to air pressure?   It seems to me (unless I am mistaken) that these are some central predictions of your concepts, why not show them demonstratively in reality rather than bicker endlessly about them?  Wouldnt this be a better way of exploring the concepts you have thought up?
It is quite simple. By deflecting to back and forth, including his repeated insults and requests for explanations from others, or just telling them to try it, he can deflect from his complete inability to explain reality using his models and his inability to answer simple questions.

If he just stuck to describing his model and addressing issues with it, he would very quickly run out of "explanations" and need to admit he is wrong, or flee, as he eventually does with every thread after being refuted enough, just to bring up the same refuted nonsense later in another thread.

As for why he doesn't get evidence himself, likely because he knows the evidence would not support him.
He has already rejected the idea of weight being tied to air pressure, such that at lower pressure things weigh less, because in reality that isn't the case. That is yet another issue his model cannot explain.

So in your opinion, is it just bickering and trolling from his side?  If so, to what end?

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #842 on: March 03, 2021, 02:43:18 AM »
In this tangent though, I would ask why you respond to everyone?  You have just said you dont understand the concepts the way other people do, and clearly other people do not understand your ideas, so isn't it just bickering over things the each side doesnt understand?  You are telling people that the concepts that you do not understand are nonsense, and vice versa?  If you are just interested in sharing your alternative thoughts and reading others, why the endless back and forth over your opinions?  What do you gain?  If you are really interested in developing your ideas, why dont you take the afternoon off posting, go buy a small vacuum pump and chamber, and try to show how magnetism and downward forces have some proportionality to air pressure?   It seems to me (unless I am mistaken) that these are some central predictions of your concepts, why not show them demonstratively in reality rather than bicker endlessly about them?  Wouldnt this be a better way of exploring the concepts you have thought up?
It is quite simple. By deflecting to back and forth, including his repeated insults and requests for explanations from others, or just telling them to try it, he can deflect from his complete inability to explain reality using his models and his inability to answer simple questions.

If he just stuck to describing his model and addressing issues with it, he would very quickly run out of "explanations" and need to admit he is wrong, or flee, as he eventually does with every thread after being refuted enough, just to bring up the same refuted nonsense later in another thread.

As for why he doesn't get evidence himself, likely because he knows the evidence would not support him.
He has already rejected the idea of weight being tied to air pressure, such that at lower pressure things weigh less, because in reality that isn't the case. That is yet another issue his model cannot explain.
So in your opinion, is it just bickering and trolling from his side?  If so, to what end?
Not necessarily trolling.
There is still the possibility of extreme cognitive dissonance. As to why, who knows.

If it is extreme cognitive dissonance it is doing whatever he can to pretend the globe is wrong and his fantasy is correct.

If it is trolling, it could be for anything.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #843 on: March 03, 2021, 03:28:09 AM »


Sure, you can blame me for not understanding your concepts.  I certainly could be the one failing here, and your ideas are simple, and I am failing to understand because I just cant think in the proper way.
I don't blame you. I accept it's difficult for people to grasp my set up and thoughts. After all it is me coming out with stuff that is basically off the chart with how you have been taught/brought up with.

Bear in mind that I'm hit from all angles by many people and I'm just me.
Too many people skew everything into their favour, which is fine but takes some dealing with en masse.

It's the reason why I counteract the questions and throw them back. You people argue against what I say by using your own mindset on what you were taught. I ask for proof.
Proof cannot be given in many aspects because even those at the top don't seem to know many things.


It comes down to understanding the thought process and why.
You can't understand mine but I seriously cannot understand the stuff you follow. Not because I refuse to understand, it's because a lot of it makes no sense. It really makes no sense.
It does not marry up with reality unless magical mysteries are added in.


I've argued this so it's pointless going down that path.


 
Quote from: sobchak
I personally don't think so, Im happy to entertain any notions at all here, and I'm just trying to understand your model.  Right now I dont understand, so here I am, asking again and again for simple descriptions.
And what I would like to do is be able to understand it well enough to explain it to someone else to your satisfaction.  That I think is the ultimate test of communication and what I am striving for here. 

If I can do that I will be pleased. I might not agree with it, I might think it is a silly concept, but at least I want to understand the concept itself before making any judgements about it.
If you want to understand my model you must first push the served up on a platter model that you've adhered to for best part of your life, otherwise you will simply reference and discard and set yourself back to square one like kabool does and Jacky.


Quote from: sobchak
Isn't this why you are here, to communicate and talk with people regarding your thoughts and ideas?  If you cant communicate your idea to a willing recipient though, what can you hope to accomplish besides just petty sniping and bickering?
I'm here to give out my thoughts.
I'm here for the layperson.
I'm also here to read alternate thoughts.
I'm not here to see people copy and paste global nonsense but I fully understand why so many people gang up to shut down alternate thoughts.
I class these people as cagey and dishonest in many aspects.
The very second en masse attempted intimidation ensues from my posts, then I know I'm dealing with people who have no other issues, other than to waste their time back patting each other like a tag team.


It makes me more determined and stronger in that respect but it also muddies the water for any legitimate people who want to look at alternates.


I know how I appear. I know how my stuff is made to look and how many people will refuse to see it from y side.
I also know that my explanations to many people will not come through as there piece of a jigsaw.


The thing is I sometimes think I'm dealing with a lot of people who are on some kind of spectrum. Basically a mind focused on one specific and that's that.
Those who focus on the gobbledygook complicated and cannot decipher simple basics.


Maybe I'm wrong but that's what I think...just as many may think I'm a stark raving lunatic who wears a tin foil hat and stained vest and Y front underpants in the basement of some house.


I've went right off on a tangent there but I like to let off some steam (bennet)  now and again.  :P

lol.

Of course you can let off some steam now and again (but hopefully not in that way!).  I fully understand you are responding to many people at the same time in multiple threads, and trying to balance a number or ideas in the responses.  I would find that completely exhausting, but you seem to enjoy it, so keep going as long as it gives you happiness in your life.

In this tangent though, I would ask why you respond to everyone?  You have just said you dont understand the concepts the way other people do, and clearly other people do not understand your ideas, so isn't it just bickering over things the each side doesnt understand?  You are telling people that the concepts that you do not understand are nonsense, and vice versa?
My stance is primarily against the severe indoctrination I got and grew up with, pertaining to a globe and all things said to be part of it...including so called space.

Yes, I once believed it all and yes, I would look at anyone in a funny way if they mentioned flat or whatever.
However, I had the time to question it all in the last 15 years or so and I quite quickly came to the realisation that it is absolute utter nonsense in the absolute extreme. I kid you not.

Based on that I tried (and still do) to come to alternatives to it. Potentials. Musings.
I believe I am much closer to reality by a mile than the global stuff put out.

I've gave simple reasons and they are rejected by people who decide it's better to try and ridicule me rather than take their time to understand alternate theories/musings.
This is why I play that game with them.

I'm handing nothing on a plate. People need to work for it. Basically show they can power down to the basics and try and see it from my side....if, they want to understand my thoughts.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #844 on: March 03, 2021, 03:28:58 AM »
Quote from: sobchak
  If you are just interested in sharing your alternative thoughts and reading others, why the endless back and forth over your opinions?  What do you gain?
Nobody is asked to share my opinions. Nobody is asked to even look at them. Most people avoid them.
Some people decide they want to be clever and have a few digs.
All of it is  fine in a discussion forum for whatever reasons people feel.

The bigger question is, why would people spend all their time wanting to have a dig and push a global model with a nutcase like me for years on end?




Quote from: sobchak
  If you are really interested in developing your ideas, why dont you take the afternoon off posting, go buy a small vacuum pump and chamber, and try to show how magnetism and downward forces have some proportionality to air pressure?   It seems to me (unless I am mistaken) that these are some central predictions of your concepts, why not show them demonstratively in reality rather than bicker endlessly about them?  Wouldn't this be a better way of exploring the concepts you have thought up?
I'm fine with how I'm going. If you are genuine and want to try and understand the simplicity of it from my side, you're welcome to ask me anything you like.
I'll try and explain but remember that my explanations come in the form of a lot of analogies which must be taken for that and not twisted to mean exactly what is said.
It's about getting your head around it from my side. Probe it in bits till you gain my mindset. It may take a wjhile but it can be done without distractions which most who argue with me, are full of.


Quote from: sobchak
Back to the topic at hand - if you think it is hopeless explaining your concept of magnetism to me for whatever reason, I will give up trying to get you to explain it simply and clearly.  In this case, please know though that I did try to understand it, I just couldn't get there from the words you were giving me.
It depends on how you wish to see it. As it stands you think air pressure like a wind just wafts through a magnet. Think about the analogies and probe from that.
Just remember there's many a split of matter and gases to form different set ups.

If I thought magnets were just simple walk about air pushing into them then I'd be stumped as to how.
It's about the make up of the magnet and the make up of what is taken from the atmosphere. Atmosphere is not just simple air pressure in one form.




 
Quote from: sobchak
Still, I would hope though that you would want to share your concepts, and if so,  to try think about them a bit more, and find a way to express them in simple terms that clearly express the idea in your mind.
I do think about them. I honestly think people need to as well by pushing aside the global concept and trying to see the alternatives.

 
Quote from: sobchak
My little magnet on the desk waits hopefully.
Keep it there and look at it just sitting. Now wonder why it does what it does from that stance.

There a few things to think about.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #845 on: March 03, 2021, 03:30:47 AM »
I accept it's difficult for people to grasp my set up and thoughts.
I find it fairly easy, and just realise it is wrong.

Not by what I see, you don't.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #846 on: March 03, 2021, 03:42:11 AM »
Right, but with the sink analogy, the water (atmosphere) is running out of the sink causing the vortex. Are you saying that the end or side of a magnet where the arrows are running out of it is basically where the analogous "plug" is?
I don't think you're quite getting it.
Let's change it up.
Let's look at a car battery.
The battery holds a charge...right?
It will keep hold of a charge as long as it's being fed. Basically in a car the battery discharges  and feeds the car parts, including the alternator/dynamo or whatever you want to call it..and back to the battery again. A loop.

A drain. But what comes out must be replaced, equally. A cycle.

The magnet is the same type of loop.




Quote from: Stash
And you didn't directly address my questions:

- How does the pressure know to circle back around and follow the arrows?
 Regardless of orientation of the magnet? With the sink analogy, the water (atmosphere) goes where the drain pipe directs it. How is the atmosphere "directed" back around and knows where to go "push"?
Pressure equalisation.

Quote from: Stash

- What if I put a magnet in low pressure vacuum, does it de-magnetize?
If the low pressure was sufficient, yes.



Quote from: Stash

 In other words, do magnets work in a vacuum?
No.

Quote from: Stash

 And if they do, how does the vortex theory work if there's little to no atmosphere to swirl around and do the pushing?
The vortex does not work in a vacuum. It works directly by attempted equalisation of pressures.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 03:43:57 AM by sceptimatic »

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #847 on: March 03, 2021, 04:41:35 AM »
Right, but with the sink analogy, the water (atmosphere) is running out of the sink causing the vortex. Are you saying that the end or side of a magnet where the arrows are running out of it is basically where the analogous "plug" is?
I don't think you're quite getting it.
Let's change it up.
Let's look at a car battery.
The battery holds a charge...right?
It will keep hold of a charge as long as it's being fed. Basically in a car the battery discharges  and feeds the car parts, including the alternator/dynamo or whatever you want to call it..and back to the battery again. A loop.

A drain. But what comes out must be replaced, equally. A cycle.

The magnet is the same type of loop.


You could also make a loop with a sink, if you connected the outlet back to the top and used a pump to push the water back up.

This would be like the battery, where electricity flows in one direction and then is pumped back up by the gas powered generator in the car.

Both of these loops have something moving (water in the former, electricity in the latter), and have an external form of energy to sustain the loop (a pump in the former and a gas powered generator in the latter).

What is happening similarly in the magnet.  What is flowing and what is the external source of energy sustaining the loop?

Or is it actually not like these systems at all?



Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #848 on: March 03, 2021, 06:11:41 AM »
Quote
It's the reason why I counteract the questions and throw them back. You people argue against what I say by using your own mindset on what you were taught. I ask for proof.
Proof cannot be given in many aspects because even those at the top don't seem to know many things.

What is proof?  At what point can we say something has been proved?  The general definition of proof could be to present evidence which puts the validity of a hypothesis beyond reasonable doubt. But we all have different perceptions of what qualifies as evidence and what qualifies as beyond reasonable doubt. Often those perceptions will be influenced by what we choose to accept as evidence. 

I wouldn't blame any individual groups particularly but you probably would. 

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #849 on: March 03, 2021, 08:08:07 AM »
Right, but with the sink analogy, the water (atmosphere) is running out of the sink causing the vortex. Are you saying that the end or side of a magnet where the arrows are running out of it is basically where the analogous "plug" is?
I don't think you're quite getting it.
Let's change it up.
Let's look at a car battery.
The battery holds a charge...right?
It will keep hold of a charge as long as it's being fed. Basically in a car the battery discharges  and feeds the car parts, including the alternator/dynamo or whatever you want to call it..and back to the battery again. A loop.

A drain. But what comes out must be replaced, equally. A cycle.

The magnet is the same type of loop.


You could also make a loop with a sink, if you connected the outlet back to the top and used a pump to push the water back up.

This would be like the battery, where electricity flows in one direction and then is pumped back up by the gas powered generator in the car.

Both of these loops have something moving (water in the former, electricity in the latter), and have an external form of energy to sustain the loop (a pump in the former and a gas powered generator in the latter).

What is happening similarly in the magnet.  What is flowing and what is the external source of energy sustaining the loop?

Or is it actually not like these systems at all?
Same thing but flow is only evident when it's activated.

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #850 on: March 03, 2021, 09:03:18 AM »
Right, but with the sink analogy, the water (atmosphere) is running out of the sink causing the vortex. Are you saying that the end or side of a magnet where the arrows are running out of it is basically where the analogous "plug" is?
I don't think you're quite getting it.
Let's change it up.
Let's look at a car battery.
The battery holds a charge...right?
It will keep hold of a charge as long as it's being fed. Basically in a car the battery discharges  and feeds the car parts, including the alternator/dynamo or whatever you want to call it..and back to the battery again. A loop.

A drain. But what comes out must be replaced, equally. A cycle.

The magnet is the same type of loop.


You could also make a loop with a sink, if you connected the outlet back to the top and used a pump to push the water back up.

This would be like the battery, where electricity flows in one direction and then is pumped back up by the gas powered generator in the car.

Both of these loops have something moving (water in the former, electricity in the latter), and have an external form of energy to sustain the loop (a pump in the former and a gas powered generator in the latter).

What is happening similarly in the magnet.  What is flowing and what is the external source of energy sustaining the loop?

Or is it actually not like these systems at all?
Same thing but flow is only evident when it's activated.

So when activated, what is flowing?

And what is the external source of energy sustaining the flow?

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Stash

  • 7307
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #851 on: March 03, 2021, 09:04:08 AM »
Right, but with the sink analogy, the water (atmosphere) is running out of the sink causing the vortex. Are you saying that the end or side of a magnet where the arrows are running out of it is basically where the analogous "plug" is?
I don't think you're quite getting it.
Let's change it up.
Let's look at a car battery.
The battery holds a charge...right?
It will keep hold of a charge as long as it's being fed. Basically in a car the battery discharges  and feeds the car parts, including the alternator/dynamo or whatever you want to call it..and back to the battery again. A loop.

A drain. But what comes out must be replaced, equally. A cycle.

The magnet is the same type of loop.

Ok, that makes sense. But the "loop" is created by cables and such that direct the charge output and input to very specific places in the loop. With magnets, what is telling the charge to be directed out one end, so to speak, and swoop back around charge into the other end? How does the atmospheric charge know to go in one end, out the other and back around again? Are the ends somehow different from one another?

Quote from: Stash
And you didn't directly address my questions:

- How does the pressure know to circle back around and follow the arrows?
 Regardless of orientation of the magnet? With the sink analogy, the water (atmosphere) goes where the drain pipe directs it. How is the atmosphere "directed" back around and knows where to go "push"?
Pressure equalisation.

Quote from: Stash

- What if I put a magnet in low pressure vacuum, does it de-magnetize?
If the low pressure was sufficient, yes.

So one would suspect that with a much lower pressure chamber, the magnet would have less magnetic power inside of it as opposed to being outside the chamber in regular atmosphere, right?

Quote from: Stash

 In other words, do magnets work in a vacuum?
No.

Quote from: Stash

 And if they do, how does the vortex theory work if there's little to no atmosphere to swirl around and do the pushing?
The vortex does not work in a vacuum. It works directly by attempted equalisation of pressures.

I've seen experiments with magnets in a vacuum chamber and they worked the same as outside the chamber. Why is that? They should not work as well inside.

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #852 on: March 03, 2021, 01:01:30 PM »
I accept it's difficult for people to grasp my set up and thoughts.
I find it fairly easy, and just realise it is wrong.
Not by what I see, you don't.
Of course you don't, because you don't want to see that you are wrong, so anyone who shows you are wrong you need to dismiss as indoctrinated and unable to grasp your thoughts.
But your inability and refusal to address simple questions show this is not the case.

Again, can you explain how the polarity of magnets work, including how 2 attractive vortexes manage to repel one another in complete defiance of all basic logic?

If not, can you explain any of the countless issues that have been brought up with your nonsense?

If not, stop pretending we don't grasp your claims.

Again, can you explain something simple like the polarity of magnets?
Or do I fully grasp your "set up and thoughts" and correctly realise that your "explanation" does not work to explain magnets because it predicts results which are contradicted by reality?

My stance is primarily against the severe indoctrination I got and grew up with
Yet rather than try to learn about it and find the evidence for it, you just dismiss it all as nonsenes.

However, I had the time to question it all in the last 15 years or so and I quite quickly came to the realisation that it is absolute utter nonsense in the absolute extreme.
A claim you continually assert, yet you are completely incapable of justifying.

I've gave simple reasons and they are rejected by people who decide it's better to try and ridicule me rather than take their time to understand alternate theories/musings.
There you go projecting again.
You have been provided with simple reasons and they are rejected/dismissed by you, with those putting them forwards ridiculed by you as you have no actual refutation for them.
You have put forward plenty of claims, but those claims have been refuted.

The bigger question is, why would people spend all their time wanting to have a dig and push a global model with a nutcase like me for years on end?
Because they care about reality and object to people spouting pure BS about it.
This means they object to you continually spouting BS about the RE.
They explain what is wrong with your arguments and sometimes even provide evidence clearly showing that you are wrong, only for you to dismiss it as a con-job.

All it takes for stupidity to triumph is for intelligent to remain silent.

If you are genuine and want to try and understand the simplicity of it from my side, you're welcome to ask me anything you like. I'll try and explain
Until you get to the point where it is clear your "explanations" don't match reality, at which point you will do whatever you can to dodge, even extremely simple questions which clearly show you are wrong.

it can be done without distractions which most who argue with me, are full of.
You are the one continually providing distractions from your complete inability to explain anything.
A recent example is how I pointed out how based your claims of how magnets working, you would need 2 vacuum cleaners to repel one another.
Rather than address that issue, you deflected by bringing in a distraction of 2 hair dryers.
That is because with that distraction you can easily pretend your explanation works, but without it, focusing on the actual situation presented, you have no way to explain how your "explanation" matches reality, because it simply doesn't.

Likewise, in a thread asking about seeing things with your naked eye, and entire FOV, you attempt to bring in a massive distraction of a magical level tube which limits your FOV to 0.

Or one from a while ago, when asked to explain how the air pushes an object down, regardless of if it is against a wall, a ceiling or in mid air, but in all cases not on the ground, you instead try explaining how an object sitting on the ground is pushed down.

So no, you are the one full of distractions, not us.
You need these distractions to pretend you are correct.
Without them, all your claims fall apart.

I honestly think people need to as well by pushing aside the global concept and trying to see the alternatives.
Again, the global has nothing to do with what is wrong with your model and claims. We do not need Earth to be a globe, or anything like that to show you are wrong.

Let's look at a car battery.
The battery holds a charge...right?
It will keep hold of a charge as long as it's being fed. Basically in a car the battery discharges  and feeds the car parts, including the alternator/dynamo or whatever you want to call it..and back to the battery again. A loop.

A drain. But what comes out must be replaced, equally. A cycle.
No, not really.
The battery has a charge, in the sense of electrochemical potential energy.
But if left doing nothing it will not have that charge.

When you start the car, the battery feeds the starter motor, causing the engine to start.
The engine now runs by itself, using fuel and oxygen to continue rotating.
This rotation is transferred to an alternator to generate electricity which then feeds back to the battery.

It is not a cycle like you claim. What comes out is not necessarily replaced.

If you would like an even better example, consider an electric car.
Now the battery simply feeds an electric motor, causing the battery to discharge as you drive it.
It only starts filling back up with charge when you plug it in to charge.

You need an external power source to drive the loop.

Unless you were referrring to the individual electrons, in which case they happily flow through, losing energy in the process, and thus the flow stops, again needing an external power source to keep it going.

What replacing the engine and fuel in your battery.

Pressure equalisation.
That would stop the motion, not keep it going.

Quote from: Stash

- What if I put a magnet in low pressure vacuum, does it de-magnetize?
If the low pressure was sufficient, yes.
Quote from: Stash

 In other words, do magnets work in a vacuum?
No.
Just how low a pressure do you need?
Do you have any evidence of this at all?
(I ask if you have evidence because you have made it clear that you are unwilling to accept evidence from anyone, so asking us for evidence is an exercise is dishonesty, and us providing any evidence to show you are wrong is an exercise in futility as you will simply dismiss it as a conjob.)

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #853 on: March 03, 2021, 01:23:05 PM »
Quote
My stance is primarily against the severe indoctrination I got and grew up with

If you check the meaning of the word indoctrination you will find that it is defined as follows:

"the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically."

My experience of science and of learning about science has never been to accept any beliefs uncritically.  Quite the opposite.  I have spent the majority of my life with education right up to university level and at no point have I ever been asked to accept anything uncritically. 

You have chosen to use the word 'indoctrination' to describe your opinion and your own contempt of science. I shudder to think where we would be if everyone had the same attitude as you.  Much better off is your own answer to that question I'm sure.

You are obviously just one of those people in life who is very self-opinionated to the point where it is impossible for you to even contemplate the possibility that you are sometimes wrong.  I'm sure in your mind we are as guilty of that as you are but in the opposite direction.  If I wasn't open minded to alternatives then why would I have even looked twice at a flat Earth website?  Opinions are based ultimately on evidence in my mind and so far in my opinion the evidence (as well as our everyday experiences) point overwhelmingly to Earth being a globe.  You will never share that opinion I accept and that's fine.  However much as I don't agree with whatever you believe I don't ridicule your beliefs as nonsense.  I don't believe that disagreeing with the beliefs of others give you an excuse to ridicule them.  You do it seems.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2021, 12:25:40 AM by Solarwind »

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #854 on: March 04, 2021, 01:25:50 AM »
Right, but with the sink analogy, the water (atmosphere) is running out of the sink causing the vortex. Are you saying that the end or side of a magnet where the arrows are running out of it is basically where the analogous "plug" is?
I don't think you're quite getting it.
Let's change it up.
Let's look at a car battery.
The battery holds a charge...right?
It will keep hold of a charge as long as it's being fed. Basically in a car the battery discharges  and feeds the car parts, including the alternator/dynamo or whatever you want to call it..and back to the battery again. A loop.

A drain. But what comes out must be replaced, equally. A cycle.

The magnet is the same type of loop.


You could also make a loop with a sink, if you connected the outlet back to the top and used a pump to push the water back up.

This would be like the battery, where electricity flows in one direction and then is pumped back up by the gas powered generator in the car.

Both of these loops have something moving (water in the former, electricity in the latter), and have an external form of energy to sustain the loop (a pump in the former and a gas powered generator in the latter).

What is happening similarly in the magnet.  What is flowing and what is the external source of energy sustaining the loop?

Or is it actually not like these systems at all?
Same thing but flow is only evident when it's activated.

So when activated, what is flowing?

And what is the external source of energy sustaining the flow?
Atmospheric pressure in broken down molecules or to be more specific, hydrogen and such separation from molecules that get stored /pushed into the super structured pores of the metals.
From that point on it's a consistent capacitor like discharge away from the push. Like diode. A non return internal valve, if you like, or mass of them.
Basically back to the sink plug hole analogy.

It creates a sort of siphon due to the mass coverage of atmosphere above.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #855 on: March 04, 2021, 01:36:47 AM »
Ok, that makes sense. But the "loop" is created by cables and such that direct the charge output and input to very specific places in the loop. With magnets, what is telling the charge to be directed out one end, so to speak, and swoop back around charge into the other end? How does the atmospheric charge know to go in one end, out the other and back around again? Are the ends somehow different from one another?
Yes. The ends are like a funnelled sieve.



Quote from: Stash

I've seen experiments with magnets in a vacuum chamber and they worked the same as outside the chamber. Why is that? They should not work as well inside.
They don't.

*

sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #856 on: March 04, 2021, 01:40:54 AM »
Quote
My stance is primarily against the severe indoctrination I got and grew up with

If you check the meaning of the word indoctrination you will find that it is defined as follows:

"the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically."

My experience of science and of learning about science has never been to accept any beliefs uncritically.

You followed a curriculum. You were marked on how well you followed that curriculum.
Do not try and tell me that you could think for yourself against it, because you could not.

You could come out with all kinds of views, obviously but you were shot down for them if they didn't follow the pattern set out.
If you want to argue that then go ahead but you know I'm right.
Your problem is, you don't want to believe it...and fair enough.

Any normal person will back me up.

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #857 on: March 04, 2021, 02:51:58 AM »
Atmospheric pressure in broken down molecules or to be more specific, hydrogen and such separation from molecules that get stored /pushed into the super structured pores of the metals.
From that point on it's a consistent capacitor like discharge away from the push. Like diode. A non return internal valve, if you like, or mass of them.
Basically back to the sink plug hole analogy.

It creates a sort of siphon due to the mass coverage of atmosphere above.
And how do these "siphons" cause a repulsion?

Quote from: Stash

I've seen experiments with magnets in a vacuum chamber and they worked the same as outside the chamber. Why is that? They should not work as well inside.
They don't.

Again, do you have evidence of this?

Do not try and tell me that you could think for yourself against it, because you could not.
Thinking for yourself doesn't mean rejecting anything anyone tells you. That is being just as uncritical as blindly accepting.
Thinking critically means actually thinking about the claims and evaluating how likely they are to be correct.
And a key part of any decent education is understanding why the things you are taught is correct.

You could come out with all kinds of views, obviously but you were shot down for them
You mean like your views are repeatedly shot down because they don't match reality?

Any normal person will back me up.
Only if they had a really crappy teacher.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 27372
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #858 on: March 04, 2021, 03:49:39 AM »
Atmospheric pressure in broken down molecules or to be more specific, hydrogen and such separation from molecules that get stored /pushed into the super structured pores of the metals.
From that point on it's a consistent capacitor like discharge away from the push. Like diode. A non return internal valve, if you like, or mass of them.
Basically back to the sink plug hole analogy.

It creates a sort of siphon due to the mass coverage of atmosphere above.
And how do these "siphons" cause a repulsion?

Same reason as going against the flow.
Try and run at a high pressure hose.
Try circling in water then turn the other way.
To siphon is to take a higher pressure and push it into lower pressure resistance which creates an equal and opposite push/compression.

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #859 on: March 04, 2021, 09:26:37 AM »
Right, but with the sink analogy, the water (atmosphere) is running out of the sink causing the vortex. Are you saying that the end or side of a magnet where the arrows are running out of it is basically where the analogous "plug" is?
I don't think you're quite getting it.
Let's change it up.
Let's look at a car battery.
The battery holds a charge...right?
It will keep hold of a charge as long as it's being fed. Basically in a car the battery discharges  and feeds the car parts, including the alternator/dynamo or whatever you want to call it..and back to the battery again. A loop.

A drain. But what comes out must be replaced, equally. A cycle.

The magnet is the same type of loop.


You could also make a loop with a sink, if you connected the outlet back to the top and used a pump to push the water back up.

This would be like the battery, where electricity flows in one direction and then is pumped back up by the gas powered generator in the car.

Both of these loops have something moving (water in the former, electricity in the latter), and have an external form of energy to sustain the loop (a pump in the former and a gas powered generator in the latter).

What is happening similarly in the magnet.  What is flowing and what is the external source of energy sustaining the loop?

Or is it actually not like these systems at all?
Same thing but flow is only evident when it's activated.

So when activated, what is flowing?

And what is the external source of energy sustaining the flow?
Atmospheric pressure in broken down molecules or to be more specific, hydrogen and such separation from molecules that get stored /pushed into the super structured pores of the metals.
From that point on it's a consistent capacitor like discharge away from the push. Like diode. A non return internal valve, if you like, or mass of them.
Basically back to the sink plug hole analogy.

It creates a sort of siphon due to the mass coverage of atmosphere above.

So pressure gets broken down into hydrogen which then flows through the porous metal of the magnet?

*

Stash

  • 7307
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #860 on: March 04, 2021, 09:47:39 AM »
Ok, that makes sense. But the "loop" is created by cables and such that direct the charge output and input to very specific places in the loop. With magnets, what is telling the charge to be directed out one end, so to speak, and swoop back around charge into the other end? How does the atmospheric charge know to go in one end, out the other and back around again? Are the ends somehow different from one another?
Yes. The ends are like a funnelled sieve.

Quote from: Stash

I've seen experiments with magnets in a vacuum chamber and they worked the same as outside the chamber. Why is that? They should not work as well inside.
They don't.

What's your evidence? Or are you just saying they don't because that wouldn't fit with your theory?

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 27372
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #861 on: March 04, 2021, 10:02:30 AM »


So pressure gets broken down into hydrogen which then flows through the porous metal of the magnet?
Sort of, yes.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 27372
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #862 on: March 04, 2021, 10:04:49 AM »
Ok, that makes sense. But the "loop" is created by cables and such that direct the charge output and input to very specific places in the loop. With magnets, what is telling the charge to be directed out one end, so to speak, and swoop back around charge into the other end? How does the atmospheric charge know to go in one end, out the other and back around again? Are the ends somehow different from one another?
Yes. The ends are like a funnelled sieve.

Quote from: Stash

I've seen experiments with magnets in a vacuum chamber and they worked the same as outside the chamber. Why is that? They should not work as well inside.
They don't.

What's your evidence? Or are you just saying they don't because that wouldn't fit with your theory?
Are you saying they do because you've witnessed a vacuum?

*

Stash

  • 7307
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #863 on: March 04, 2021, 10:11:13 AM »
Ok, that makes sense. But the "loop" is created by cables and such that direct the charge output and input to very specific places in the loop. With magnets, what is telling the charge to be directed out one end, so to speak, and swoop back around charge into the other end? How does the atmospheric charge know to go in one end, out the other and back around again? Are the ends somehow different from one another?
Yes. The ends are like a funnelled sieve.

Quote from: Stash

I've seen experiments with magnets in a vacuum chamber and they worked the same as outside the chamber. Why is that? They should not work as well inside.
They don't.

What's your evidence? Or are you just saying they don't because that wouldn't fit with your theory?
Are you saying they do because you've witnessed a vacuum?

I'm asking you what is your evidence that magnets don't work in a vacuum, or, more succinctly, that they don't work as well in a very low pressure, near vacuum as they do outside in normal atmosphere? What's your evidence for that?

Or if you have no evidence, is it just your theory that they don't?

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #864 on: March 04, 2021, 10:21:39 AM »
Ok, that makes sense. But the "loop" is created by cables and such that direct the charge output and input to very specific places in the loop. With magnets, what is telling the charge to be directed out one end, so to speak, and swoop back around charge into the other end? How does the atmospheric charge know to go in one end, out the other and back around again? Are the ends somehow different from one another?
Yes. The ends are like a funnelled sieve.

Quote from: Stash

I've seen experiments with magnets in a vacuum chamber and they worked the same as outside the chamber. Why is that? They should not work as well inside.
They don't.

What's your evidence? Or are you just saying they don't because that wouldn't fit with your theory?
Are you saying they do because you've witnessed a vacuum?

try not to get too hypocritical now.

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #865 on: March 04, 2021, 11:00:16 AM »


So pressure gets broken down into hydrogen which then flows through the porous metal of the magnet?
Sort of, yes.

Hmm, can you clarify so it is not "sort of"? 

This is how I see it from your explanation.  Please correct for clarity -

There is atmosphere consisting of molecules around the magnet.  Degraded bits of these atmospheric molecules (like hydrogen), get pushed through the structure of the magnet.  They go in one side and are pushed out the other side (from high to low back to high pressure), then circle back along the sides of the magnet in order to go back into the magnet in a loop. 

Is this right?

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #866 on: March 04, 2021, 12:18:56 PM »
Atmospheric pressure in broken down molecules or to be more specific, hydrogen and such separation from molecules that get stored /pushed into the super structured pores of the metals.
From that point on it's a consistent capacitor like discharge away from the push. Like diode. A non return internal valve, if you like, or mass of them.
Basically back to the sink plug hole analogy.

It creates a sort of siphon due to the mass coverage of atmosphere above.
And how do these "siphons" cause a repulsion?

Same reason as going against the flow.
Try and run at a high pressure hose.
Try circling in water then turn the other way.
To siphon is to take a higher pressure and push it into lower pressure resistance which creates an equal and opposite push/compression.

They are fundamentally different phenomenon and thus couldn't simply be the same reason, and yet again you dodge the issue.
We aren't talking about running at a high pressure hose, we are talking about the other side, where the water is being "drawn" in.
This is running towards the low pressure region with the high pressure pushing you towards it.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 27372
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #867 on: March 05, 2021, 12:56:05 AM »


I'm asking you what is your evidence that magnets don't work in a vacuum, or, more succinctly, that they don't work as well in a very low pressure, near vacuum as they do outside in normal atmosphere? What's your evidence for that?

Or if you have no evidence, is it just your theory that they don't?
I have no evidence because I've never seen or experienced a vacuum...and neither have you. And nor will you ever.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 27372
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #868 on: March 05, 2021, 12:57:44 AM »


So pressure gets broken down into hydrogen which then flows through the porous metal of the magnet?
Sort of, yes.

Hmm, can you clarify so it is not "sort of"? 

This is how I see it from your explanation.  Please correct for clarity -

There is atmosphere consisting of molecules around the magnet.  Degraded bits of these atmospheric molecules (like hydrogen), get pushed through the structure of the magnet.  They go in one side and are pushed out the other side (from high to low back to high pressure), then circle back along the sides of the magnet in order to go back into the magnet in a loop. 

Is this right?
First of all let me know how you think a magnet comes about to be a magnet on your table and then we'll go on from tehre.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 27372
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #869 on: March 05, 2021, 12:59:28 AM »
They are fundamentally different phenomenon and thus couldn't simply be the same reason, and yet again you dodge the issue.
We aren't talking about running at a high pressure hose, we are talking about the other side, where the water is being "drawn" in.
This is running towards the low pressure region with the high pressure pushing you towards it.
If you create a low pressure and trap it...how do you release it?