ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #810 on: March 02, 2021, 06:18:07 AM »


I cant understand what you think is happening from looking a diagram of a magnet.  Would need your help here, and is in fact the only question I have been asking for the past few pages - how does your view of how my little magnet in front of me differ from the conventional model.
How does the conventional model work and what makes it work? Let's see where we go from that.
Can you simply explain it?

Sure. 

Moving charges create a magnetic field. 

In all materials there are moving charges (electrons)

In materials with specific configurations of electrons, the movement of electrons can be aligned to create a net magnetic field that results from this aligned movement of electrons. 

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #811 on: March 02, 2021, 06:47:10 AM »


I can try and help with a diagram but not just yet.


You said that last time for how air pushes down.
Still yet to see anything.
Keep dodging.

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Stash

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #812 on: March 02, 2021, 07:03:40 AM »


Okay, so we are in a fluid like in a sink.  I have a little magnet on my desk.  This fluid that we are in (the air) is draining through a vortex in my little magnet on the desk?

Where does it drain to?  If we use a sink as a analogy, it doesnt drain back into itself, right?
It drains right back into the magnet.

I dont follow.  We are imagining it is like a sink with a hole, right?  The water flows out of the hole and goes somewhere else, it doesnt flow back into the hole does it?  But somehow in the magnet case, the magnet pulls atmosphere though it like a drain, but then air drains back into the magnet? 

This is really hard to follow.  I hope you realize that.  It might seem clear in your mind, but you are not communicating it clearly to others.  I am trying as hard as I can to understand the idea you have thought up but I am really struggling to grasp it.

Maube sceppy could draw this vortex on a map-map.

A diagram of any sorts would be incredibly useful.
Just take a look at the diagram of a magnet and it will give you a better clue.

I'm confused. Looking at some magnet diagrams, are you saying that it's the air that is traveling along all the different directions of arrows?

Here's one diagram:


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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #813 on: March 02, 2021, 08:02:03 AM »


Then unmix me.  I am reading every word you write with an open mind, trying my hardest to understand the concept you are trying to get across.  Yet at this point, Im still not able to reach a core understanding.  I go back and reread what you wrote, trying to parse it down to its basics, I think about the conceptualization in my free time.  What more can I do?   

Why is your concept, if it is so simple to you, so incredibly difficult to pass on clearly to others?
I don't believe it's difficult.
I think people like yourself get confused because your mindset is looking at things totally differently.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #814 on: March 02, 2021, 08:04:28 AM »


I cant understand what you think is happening from looking a diagram of a magnet.  Would need your help here, and is in fact the only question I have been asking for the past few pages - how does your view of how my little magnet in front of me differ from the conventional model.
How does the conventional model work and what makes it work? Let's see where we go from that.
Can you simply explain it?

Sure. 

Moving charges create a magnetic field. 

In all materials there are moving charges (electrons)

In materials with specific configurations of electrons, the movement of electrons can be aligned to create a net magnetic field that results from this aligned movement of electrons.
That doesn't explain anything to me other than moving electrons being aligned.
What are these moving electrons and how are they aligned to create this magnetic field that creates your attraction and repelling?.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #815 on: March 02, 2021, 08:05:23 AM »


I can try and help with a diagram but not just yet.


You said that last time for how air pushes down.
Still yet to see anything.
Keep dodging.
I explained and I used diagrams and you simply go into this mode. You're not worth the effort.

*

sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #816 on: March 02, 2021, 08:06:34 AM »


Okay, so we are in a fluid like in a sink.  I have a little magnet on my desk.  This fluid that we are in (the air) is draining through a vortex in my little magnet on the desk?

Where does it drain to?  If we use a sink as a analogy, it doesnt drain back into itself, right?
It drains right back into the magnet.

I dont follow.  We are imagining it is like a sink with a hole, right?  The water flows out of the hole and goes somewhere else, it doesnt flow back into the hole does it?  But somehow in the magnet case, the magnet pulls atmosphere though it like a drain, but then air drains back into the magnet? 

This is really hard to follow.  I hope you realize that.  It might seem clear in your mind, but you are not communicating it clearly to others.  I am trying as hard as I can to understand the idea you have thought up but I am really struggling to grasp it.

Maube sceppy could draw this vortex on a map-map.

A diagram of any sorts would be incredibly useful.
Just take a look at the diagram of a magnet and it will give you a better clue.

I'm confused. Looking at some magnet diagrams, are you saying that it's the air that is traveling along all the different directions of arrows?

Here's one diagram:


Yep but in pressure terms not in a wind term.

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #817 on: March 02, 2021, 08:12:48 AM »


I can try and help with a diagram but not just yet.


You said that last time for how air pushes down.
Still yet to see anything.
Keep dodging.
I explained and I used diagrams and you simply go into this mode. You're not worth the effort.



Those afflicted by dunning and kruger tend to think things are simple.

Yet... on the other hand you have a real difficult time performing and documenting your experiemtns or drawing diagrams.

Keep at it.

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #818 on: March 02, 2021, 08:14:55 AM »


Okay, so we are in a fluid like in a sink.  I have a little magnet on my desk.  This fluid that we are in (the air) is draining through a vortex in my little magnet on the desk?

Where does it drain to?  If we use a sink as a analogy, it doesnt drain back into itself, right?
It drains right back into the magnet.

I dont follow.  We are imagining it is like a sink with a hole, right?  The water flows out of the hole and goes somewhere else, it doesnt flow back into the hole does it?  But somehow in the magnet case, the magnet pulls atmosphere though it like a drain, but then air drains back into the magnet? 

This is really hard to follow.  I hope you realize that.  It might seem clear in your mind, but you are not communicating it clearly to others.  I am trying as hard as I can to understand the idea you have thought up but I am really struggling to grasp it.

Maube sceppy could draw this vortex on a map-map.

A diagram of any sorts would be incredibly useful.
Just take a look at the diagram of a magnet and it will give you a better clue.

I'm confused. Looking at some magnet diagrams, are you saying that it's the air that is traveling along all the different directions of arrows?

Here's one diagram:


Yep but in pressure terms not in a wind term.

Pressure in terms where you say they originate from air.....
Maybe its time you define pressure because its not how everyone else uses that very well defined and understood word.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #819 on: March 02, 2021, 08:23:55 AM »


I can try and help with a diagram but not just yet.


You said that last time for how air pushes down.
Still yet to see anything.
Keep dodging.
I explained and I used diagrams and you simply go into this mode. You're not worth the effort.



Those afflicted by dunning and kruger tend to think things are simple.

Yet... on the other hand you have a real difficult time performing and documenting your experiemtns or drawing diagrams.

Keep at it.
Things are simple. They only become complicated for two reasons.


1. When a finished product is shown to a newbie and not stripped down to the bare bones to show the make up.

2.When people deliberately make up so called theories with unprovable physical set ups except for equations that only explain obscure concepts.


Let's make this clear.

To build anything you require many pieces but you require one piece at a time to build.
If the jigsaw can be seen it can also be reverse engineered to become the simple thing it started out as.


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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #820 on: March 02, 2021, 08:25:44 AM »


Pressure in terms where you say they originate from air.....
Maybe its time you define pressure because its not how everyone else uses that very well defined and understood word.
Start to absorb stuff instead of playing games and having digs. You may understand a bit instead of going backwards like you normally do.

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #821 on: March 02, 2021, 08:33:40 AM »


I cant understand what you think is happening from looking a diagram of a magnet.  Would need your help here, and is in fact the only question I have been asking for the past few pages - how does your view of how my little magnet in front of me differ from the conventional model.
How does the conventional model work and what makes it work? Let's see where we go from that.
Can you simply explain it?

Sure. 

Moving charges create a magnetic field. 

In all materials there are moving charges (electrons)

In materials with specific configurations of electrons, the movement of electrons can be aligned to create a net magnetic field that results from this aligned movement of electrons.
That doesn't explain anything to me other than moving electrons being aligned.

Excellent! You understood perfectly. 

Moving charges create a magnetic field.  The aligned movement of electrons within a material causes its magnetic field.

Im glad you understood this simple concept.  You don't have to agree with it, you can ask more questions about it, but you understood it enough to move on.

However, I'm still totally lost about your basic concept though, can you please try to explain so I can understand?

As to your other questions, happy to give the current understanding as I comprehend it at least.

What are these moving electrons and how are they aligned to create this magnetic field that creates your attraction and repelling?

Electrons are understood to be subatomic particles with a negative charge, they appear to orbit the nucleus of atoms with predictable behavior, they have measurable angular velocity (they spin), and are responsible for the bonds between individual atoms. 

The alignment of their orbital motion can be done in a number of ways, but the most common way is to use an externally generated magnetic field to "magnetize" them.  How a material behaves in an externally applied magnetic field depends on the temperature and the electron configuration in the material, and can range from inducing an opposite magnetic field (diamagnetic materials), a transient magnetic field aligned in the same orientation of the external field (paramagnetic materials), and a permanent magnetic field aligned in the same orientation of the external field (ferromagnetic materials). 

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Stash

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #822 on: March 02, 2021, 08:36:34 AM »


Okay, so we are in a fluid like in a sink.  I have a little magnet on my desk.  This fluid that we are in (the air) is draining through a vortex in my little magnet on the desk?

Where does it drain to?  If we use a sink as a analogy, it doesnt drain back into itself, right?
It drains right back into the magnet.

I dont follow.  We are imagining it is like a sink with a hole, right?  The water flows out of the hole and goes somewhere else, it doesnt flow back into the hole does it?  But somehow in the magnet case, the magnet pulls atmosphere though it like a drain, but then air drains back into the magnet? 

This is really hard to follow.  I hope you realize that.  It might seem clear in your mind, but you are not communicating it clearly to others.  I am trying as hard as I can to understand the idea you have thought up but I am really struggling to grasp it.

Maube sceppy could draw this vortex on a map-map.

A diagram of any sorts would be incredibly useful.
Just take a look at the diagram of a magnet and it will give you a better clue.

I'm confused. Looking at some magnet diagrams, are you saying that it's the air that is traveling along all the different directions of arrows?

Here's one diagram:


Yep but in pressure terms not in a wind term.

Yeah, got it regarding pressure versus wind.

How does the pressure know to circle back around and follow the arrows? Regardless of orientation of the magnet? What if I put a magnet in low pressure vacuum, does it de-magnetize?

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Stash

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #823 on: March 02, 2021, 08:37:57 AM »
2.When people deliberately make up so called theories with unprovable physical set ups except for equations that only explain obscure concepts.

That's hilarious. You literally just described denpressure except you don't even have any simple equations to back it up.

Denpressure:

- Made up so called theory, CHECK
- Unprovable physical set ups, CHECK

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #824 on: March 02, 2021, 08:44:09 AM »


Then unmix me.  I am reading every word you write with an open mind, trying my hardest to understand the concept you are trying to get across.  Yet at this point, Im still not able to reach a core understanding.  I go back and reread what you wrote, trying to parse it down to its basics, I think about the conceptualization in my free time.  What more can I do?   

Why is your concept, if it is so simple to you, so incredibly difficult to pass on clearly to others?
I don't believe it's difficult.
I think people like yourself get confused because your mindset is looking at things totally differently.

Sure, you can blame me for not understanding your concepts.  I certainly could be the one failing here, and your ideas are simple, and I am failing to understand because I just cant think in the proper way. 

I personally don't think so, Im happy to entertain any notions at all here, and I'm just trying to understand your model.  Right now I dont understand, so here I am, asking again and again for simple descriptions. 

And what I would like to do is be able to understand it well enough to explain it to someone else to your satisfaction.  That I think is the ultimate test of communication and what I am striving for here. 

If I can do that I will be pleased. I might not agree with it, I might think it is a silly concept, but at least I want to understand the concept itself before making any judgements about it.

Isn't this why you are here, to communicate and talk with people regarding your thoughts and ideas?  If you cant communicate your idea to a willing recipient though, what can you hope to accomplish besides just petty sniping and bickering?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 08:47:00 AM by sobchak »

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #825 on: March 02, 2021, 11:41:19 AM »
I agree entirely with Sobchak here.  I would also like to know more about your model.  I don't agree with many things but that doesn't stop me respecting those ideas or the reasons why others do follow or believe in them.

Alternative ideas are healthy and how we make progress.  So I stand with Sobchak on the points he raises.  But up to now we simply don't know.

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #826 on: March 02, 2021, 11:59:14 AM »
Explain it instead of dodging.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out what is going to happen.
Try it and then explain what happens.
I can clearly see you haven't tried it.
You mean you are clearly using whatever excuse you can to avoid the issue.
The 2 nozzles are drawn towards each other (just like the dust is) and basically latch onto each other. Then the vacuum cleaner starts making a different noise as it is no longer sucking the air through.
There is no sucking of air through, so try again.
And clearly you have not performed this two cleaner experiment.
Semantics.
You know what is meant by "sucking the air through".
Now stop deflecting.
If you think I haven't done the experiment and that you would get a different result, provide it here.
Because even if someone hasn't done the experiment, simple logic shows you are wrong.
There is no way for those 2 sides to repel one another.
The "vortex of air" would cause them to move towards one another.
And try it, I have.
I have two near identical cordless cleaners.
Instead of you going into raptures...you try it.
Then you should easily be able to provide a video clearly showing the "suction" of both and joining them together without any cut to show how they repel one another.
Can you?
If not, explain why magnets should repel.
Stop dodging and either show the impossible, or explain the impossible.

It's not like there's some tornado going on outside.
So no external swirling vortex of atmosphere?
Yes, a slow swirl that creates a larger vortex in the magnet which creates a pressure difference. A high to low pressure difference.


Quote from: sobchak

Do you feel the water in a full sink, vortex or do you only feel it when the water is about to go?

Well, in atmosphere you are always in the full sink.
I'll let you think on it.

You only feel the water's movement when it actually moves.  So if I think about what you say, you are suggesting as I can not feel any movement, it means the atmosphere isn't moving through or around the magnet.  Correct?
No.
If you fill your sink to the top and then place a  cork or tiny piece of paper, etc on that surface then take the plug out, the vortex is created towards that plug hole but your cork or paper does not move, hardly, on that surface.

The cork or paper will move eventually, if you wait.

So, where are these magnets, if this is what's happening in earth's atmosphere?
They will only move if there is an outlet open for them to move. As in, the plug being slightly released.
This is what is happening consistently with magnets, imo....but it's a trickle flow until something changes it.
Which shows that your prior comment about it is pure garabge.
Yes, they move when there is that "vortex" to make things move, which means the same should be happening with the magnet, yet there is no flow of air around a magnet.
Something has to create the pressure difference.
So what does it for your magnet?

No gravity is needed.
Why do you need to continually pretend that in real science gravity is involved in everything?
Real science isn't your delusional nonsense where everything is the result of air.
Real science doesn't have gravity involved in magnetism at all.
Stop acting like gravity not being needed is in any way significant to magnetism.
Ok, you have to remember that the sink is the analogy as in terms of atmosphere.
You have to remember that the sink never empties. It's always filling as it empties. Action/reaction in equal terms.
That is not action/reaction.
Something more akin to action/reaction here is the water leaves the sink and ends up somewhere else.

Just take a look at the diagram of a magnet and it will give you a better clue.
There is no diagram of a magnet that I know of that uses a magical vortex of air like you are claiming.

I can try and help with a diagram but not just yet.
Of course you can't, because once a diagram is provided you get somewhat pinned down by it, which allows people to refute your claims by pointing out massive errors with it.

Yep but in pressure terms not in a wind term.
So which is the higher pressure, N or S?
And then your back to the same problem you have been continually dodging, while you can explain the 2 high pressure poles repelling, you can't explain 2 low pressure poles repelling.

2.When people deliberately make up so called theories with unprovable physical set ups except for equations that only explain obscure concepts.
There is no need to invoke equations there. And without that little caveat, it certainly fits what you are doing, where you are doing your best to obscure reality.

Start to absorb stuff
So no more thinking? Just soak everything up like a dumb sponge?

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #827 on: March 02, 2021, 12:11:53 PM »


Pressure in terms where you say they originate from air.....
Maybe its time you define pressure because its not how everyone else uses that very well defined and understood word.
Start to absorb stuff instead of playing games and having digs. You may understand a bit instead of going backwards like you normally do.

Absorb what?
You havent said anything of substance

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #828 on: March 02, 2021, 11:22:08 PM »


Okay, so we are in a fluid like in a sink.  I have a little magnet on my desk.  This fluid that we are in (the air) is draining through a vortex in my little magnet on the desk?

Where does it drain to?  If we use a sink as a analogy, it doesnt drain back into itself, right?
It drains right back into the magnet.

I dont follow.  We are imagining it is like a sink with a hole, right?  The water flows out of the hole and goes somewhere else, it doesnt flow back into the hole does it?  But somehow in the magnet case, the magnet pulls atmosphere though it like a drain, but then air drains back into the magnet? 

This is really hard to follow.  I hope you realize that.  It might seem clear in your mind, but you are not communicating it clearly to others.  I am trying as hard as I can to understand the idea you have thought up but I am really struggling to grasp it.

Maube sceppy could draw this vortex on a map-map.

A diagram of any sorts would be incredibly useful.
Just take a look at the diagram of a magnet and it will give you a better clue.

I'm confused. Looking at some magnet diagrams, are you saying that it's the air that is traveling along all the different directions of arrows?

Here's one diagram:


Yep but in pressure terms not in a wind term.

Yeah, got it regarding pressure versus wind.

How does the pressure know to circle back around and follow the arrows? Regardless of orientation of the magnet? What if I put a magnet in low pressure vacuum, does it de-magnetize?
Back to the sinik analogy.
A consistently filling sink. Never emptying, even if the plug is pushed out a little, or a lot, depending.

Put that thought into atmosphere and understand that what is pushed in is also pushed out....but as it's pushed out it compresses to push back in.

It creates a vibration of atmosphere in the scenario and causes a velcro like interconnection between high and low pressure molecules by the process of compression and decompression.



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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #829 on: March 02, 2021, 11:23:47 PM »
2.When people deliberately make up so called theories with unprovable physical set ups except for equations that only explain obscure concepts.

That's hilarious. You literally just described denpressure except you don't even have any simple equations to back it up.

Denpressure:

- Made up so called theory, CHECK
- Unprovable physical set ups, CHECK
It's provable but people like you will never get it because your brains are on some kind of spectrum, in my opinion.

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #830 on: March 02, 2021, 11:33:25 PM »
2.When people deliberately make up so called theories with unprovable physical set ups except for equations that only explain obscure concepts.

That's hilarious. You literally just described denpressure except you don't even have any simple equations to back it up.

Denpressure:

- Made up so called theory, CHECK
- Unprovable physical set ups, CHECK
It's provable but people like you will never get it because your brains are on some kind of spectrum, in my opinion.
No, it is provable that it is wrong due to the internal contradictions.
What certainly isn't provable are any of your claims.

Every brain is on a spectrum.
The spectrum in question is how much you care about the truth, and things making sense and matching reality.
We are firmly on the end of caring. I care about my beliefs matching reality and making sense and being the truth.
You are firmly on the other end, not caring about the truth at all, being quite happy to spout pure nonsense which makes no sense at all.
Nonsense like claiming there are no pulling forces and everything is actually push, even though you can't even explain something as simple as a chain link, and pure nonsense like magnets are actually the air pushing things, even though you have no explanation at all for the polarity of magnets which directly contradicts your explanation and thus proves it wrong.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #831 on: March 02, 2021, 11:48:24 PM »


Sure, you can blame me for not understanding your concepts.  I certainly could be the one failing here, and your ideas are simple, and I am failing to understand because I just cant think in the proper way.
I don't blame you. I accept it's difficult for people to grasp my set up and thoughts. After all it is me coming out with stuff that is basically off the chart with how you have been taught/brought up with.

Bear in mind that I'm hit from all angles by many people and I'm just me.
Too many people skew everything into their favour, which is fine but takes some dealing with en masse.

It's the reason why I counteract the questions and throw them back. You people argue against what I say by using your own mindset on what you were taught. I ask for proof.
Proof cannot be given in many aspects because even those at the top don't seem to know many things.


It comes down to understanding the thought process and why.
You can't understand mine but I seriously cannot understand the stuff you follow. Not because I refuse to understand, it's because a lot of it makes no sense. It really makes no sense.
It does not marry up with reality unless magical mysteries are added in.


I've argued this so it's pointless going down that path.


 
Quote from: sobchak
I personally don't think so, Im happy to entertain any notions at all here, and I'm just trying to understand your model.  Right now I dont understand, so here I am, asking again and again for simple descriptions.
And what I would like to do is be able to understand it well enough to explain it to someone else to your satisfaction.  That I think is the ultimate test of communication and what I am striving for here. 

If I can do that I will be pleased. I might not agree with it, I might think it is a silly concept, but at least I want to understand the concept itself before making any judgements about it.
If you want to understand my model you must first push the served up on a platter model that you've adhered to for best part of your life, otherwise you will simply reference and discard and set yourself back to square one like kabool does and Jacky.


Quote from: sobchak
Isn't this why you are here, to communicate and talk with people regarding your thoughts and ideas?  If you cant communicate your idea to a willing recipient though, what can you hope to accomplish besides just petty sniping and bickering?
I'm here to give out my thoughts.
I'm here for the layperson.
I'm also here to read alternate thoughts.
I'm not here to see people copy and paste global nonsense but I fully understand why so many people gang up to shut down alternate thoughts.
I class these people as cagey and dishonest in many aspects.
The very second en masse attempted intimidation ensues from my posts, then I know I'm dealing with people who have no other issues, other than to waste their time back patting each other like a tag team.


It makes me more determined and stronger in that respect but it also muddies the water for any legitimate people who want to look at alternates.


I know how I appear. I know how my stuff is made to look and how many people will refuse to see it from y side.
I also know that my explanations to many people will not come through as there piece of a jigsaw.


The thing is I sometimes think I'm dealing with a lot of people who are on some kind of spectrum. Basically a mind focused on one specific and that's that.
Those who focus on the gobbledygook complicated and cannot decipher simple basics.


Maybe I'm wrong but that's what I think...just as many may think I'm a stark raving lunatic who wears a tin foil hat and stained vest and Y front underpants in the basement of some house.


I've went right off on a tangent there but I like to let off some steam (bennet)  now and again.  :P

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #832 on: March 02, 2021, 11:49:43 PM »
I agree entirely with Sobchak here.  I would also like to know more about your model.  I don't agree with many things but that doesn't stop me respecting those ideas or the reasons why others do follow or believe in them.

Alternative ideas are healthy and how we make progress.  So I stand with Sobchak on the points he raises.  But up to now we simply don't know.
Ok, keep that thought process and do not let bullies dictate the way you go about it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #833 on: March 02, 2021, 11:51:16 PM »
Explain it instead of dodging.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out what is going to happen.
Try it and then explain what happens.
I can clearly see you haven't tried it.
You mean you are clearly using whatever excuse you can to avoid the issue.
The 2 nozzles are drawn towards each other (just like the dust is) and basically latch onto each other. Then the vacuum cleaner starts making a different noise as it is no longer sucking the air through.
There is no sucking of air through, so try again.
And clearly you have not performed this two cleaner experiment.
Semantics.
You know what is meant by "sucking the air through".
Now stop deflecting.
If you think I haven't done the experiment and that you would get a different result, provide it here.
Because even if someone hasn't done the experiment, simple logic shows you are wrong.
There is no way for those 2 sides to repel one another.
The "vortex of air" would cause them to move towards one another.
And try it, I have.
I have two near identical cordless cleaners.
Instead of you going into raptures...you try it.
Then you should easily be able to provide a video clearly showing the "suction" of both and joining them together without any cut to show how they repel one another.
Can you?
If not, explain why magnets should repel.
Stop dodging and either show the impossible, or explain the impossible.

It's not like there's some tornado going on outside.
So no external swirling vortex of atmosphere?
Yes, a slow swirl that creates a larger vortex in the magnet which creates a pressure difference. A high to low pressure difference.


Quote from: sobchak

Do you feel the water in a full sink, vortex or do you only feel it when the water is about to go?

Well, in atmosphere you are always in the full sink.
I'll let you think on it.

You only feel the water's movement when it actually moves.  So if I think about what you say, you are suggesting as I can not feel any movement, it means the atmosphere isn't moving through or around the magnet.  Correct?
No.
If you fill your sink to the top and then place a  cork or tiny piece of paper, etc on that surface then take the plug out, the vortex is created towards that plug hole but your cork or paper does not move, hardly, on that surface.

The cork or paper will move eventually, if you wait.

So, where are these magnets, if this is what's happening in earth's atmosphere?
They will only move if there is an outlet open for them to move. As in, the plug being slightly released.
This is what is happening consistently with magnets, imo....but it's a trickle flow until something changes it.
Which shows that your prior comment about it is pure garabge.
Yes, they move when there is that "vortex" to make things move, which means the same should be happening with the magnet, yet there is no flow of air around a magnet.
Something has to create the pressure difference.
So what does it for your magnet?

No gravity is needed.
Why do you need to continually pretend that in real science gravity is involved in everything?
Real science isn't your delusional nonsense where everything is the result of air.
Real science doesn't have gravity involved in magnetism at all.
Stop acting like gravity not being needed is in any way significant to magnetism.
Ok, you have to remember that the sink is the analogy as in terms of atmosphere.
You have to remember that the sink never empties. It's always filling as it empties. Action/reaction in equal terms.
That is not action/reaction.
Something more akin to action/reaction here is the water leaves the sink and ends up somewhere else.

Just take a look at the diagram of a magnet and it will give you a better clue.
There is no diagram of a magnet that I know of that uses a magical vortex of air like you are claiming.

I can try and help with a diagram but not just yet.
Of course you can't, because once a diagram is provided you get somewhat pinned down by it, which allows people to refute your claims by pointing out massive errors with it.

Yep but in pressure terms not in a wind term.
So which is the higher pressure, N or S?
And then your back to the same problem you have been continually dodging, while you can explain the 2 high pressure poles repelling, you can't explain 2 low pressure poles repelling.

2.When people deliberately make up so called theories with unprovable physical set ups except for equations that only explain obscure concepts.
There is no need to invoke equations there. And without that little caveat, it certainly fits what you are doing, where you are doing your best to obscure reality.

Start to absorb stuff
So no more thinking? Just soak everything up like a dumb sponge?
I honestly don't feel my answers to you, compute. I'm beginning to question your reality. Seriously.
I just see nasty.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 27741
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #834 on: March 02, 2021, 11:52:45 PM »


Pressure in terms where you say they originate from air.....
Maybe its time you define pressure because its not how everyone else uses that very well defined and understood word.
Start to absorb stuff instead of playing games and having digs. You may understand a bit instead of going backwards like you normally do.

Absorb what?
You havent said anything of substance
Put some real effort in and stop tugging on Jacky's coat tails, for crying out loud.
Try and be yourself and you may get somewhere. Don't spend your life being a sokarul, nasty horrible git.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 27741
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #835 on: March 02, 2021, 11:54:05 PM »
2.When people deliberately make up so called theories with unprovable physical set ups except for equations that only explain obscure concepts.

That's hilarious. You literally just described denpressure except you don't even have any simple equations to back it up.

Denpressure:

- Made up so called theory, CHECK
- Unprovable physical set ups, CHECK
It's provable but people like you will never get it because your brains are on some kind of spectrum, in my opinion.
No, it is provable that it is wrong due to the internal contradictions.
What certainly isn't provable are any of your claims.

Every brain is on a spectrum.
The spectrum in question is how much you care about the truth, and things making sense and matching reality.
We are firmly on the end of caring. I care about my beliefs matching reality and making sense and being the truth.
You are firmly on the other end, not caring about the truth at all, being quite happy to spout pure nonsense which makes no sense at all.
Nonsense like claiming there are no pulling forces and everything is actually push, even though you can't even explain something as simple as a chain link, and pure nonsense like magnets are actually the air pushing things, even though you have no explanation at all for the polarity of magnets which directly contradicts your explanation and thus proves it wrong.
When you can get down to one thing at a time I will happily deal with you.
When you come back with copy and paste, I will overlook it all. I'm just letting you know.

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #836 on: March 03, 2021, 01:07:55 AM »


Sure, you can blame me for not understanding your concepts.  I certainly could be the one failing here, and your ideas are simple, and I am failing to understand because I just cant think in the proper way.
I don't blame you. I accept it's difficult for people to grasp my set up and thoughts. After all it is me coming out with stuff that is basically off the chart with how you have been taught/brought up with.

Bear in mind that I'm hit from all angles by many people and I'm just me.
Too many people skew everything into their favour, which is fine but takes some dealing with en masse.

It's the reason why I counteract the questions and throw them back. You people argue against what I say by using your own mindset on what you were taught. I ask for proof.
Proof cannot be given in many aspects because even those at the top don't seem to know many things.


It comes down to understanding the thought process and why.
You can't understand mine but I seriously cannot understand the stuff you follow. Not because I refuse to understand, it's because a lot of it makes no sense. It really makes no sense.
It does not marry up with reality unless magical mysteries are added in.


I've argued this so it's pointless going down that path.


 
Quote from: sobchak
I personally don't think so, Im happy to entertain any notions at all here, and I'm just trying to understand your model.  Right now I dont understand, so here I am, asking again and again for simple descriptions.
And what I would like to do is be able to understand it well enough to explain it to someone else to your satisfaction.  That I think is the ultimate test of communication and what I am striving for here. 

If I can do that I will be pleased. I might not agree with it, I might think it is a silly concept, but at least I want to understand the concept itself before making any judgements about it.
If you want to understand my model you must first push the served up on a platter model that you've adhered to for best part of your life, otherwise you will simply reference and discard and set yourself back to square one like kabool does and Jacky.


Quote from: sobchak
Isn't this why you are here, to communicate and talk with people regarding your thoughts and ideas?  If you cant communicate your idea to a willing recipient though, what can you hope to accomplish besides just petty sniping and bickering?
I'm here to give out my thoughts.
I'm here for the layperson.
I'm also here to read alternate thoughts.
I'm not here to see people copy and paste global nonsense but I fully understand why so many people gang up to shut down alternate thoughts.
I class these people as cagey and dishonest in many aspects.
The very second en masse attempted intimidation ensues from my posts, then I know I'm dealing with people who have no other issues, other than to waste their time back patting each other like a tag team.


It makes me more determined and stronger in that respect but it also muddies the water for any legitimate people who want to look at alternates.


I know how I appear. I know how my stuff is made to look and how many people will refuse to see it from y side.
I also know that my explanations to many people will not come through as there piece of a jigsaw.


The thing is I sometimes think I'm dealing with a lot of people who are on some kind of spectrum. Basically a mind focused on one specific and that's that.
Those who focus on the gobbledygook complicated and cannot decipher simple basics.


Maybe I'm wrong but that's what I think...just as many may think I'm a stark raving lunatic who wears a tin foil hat and stained vest and Y front underpants in the basement of some house.


I've went right off on a tangent there but I like to let off some steam (bennet)  now and again.  :P

lol.

Of course you can let off some steam now and again (but hopefully not in that way!).  I fully understand you are responding to many people at the same time in multiple threads, and trying to balance a number or ideas in the responses.  I would find that completely exhausting, but you seem to enjoy it, so keep going as long as it gives you happiness in your life.

In this tangent though, I would ask why you respond to everyone?  You have just said you dont understand the concepts the way other people do, and clearly other people do not understand your ideas, so isn't it just bickering over things the each side doesnt understand?  You are telling people that the concepts that you do not understand are nonsense, and vice versa?  If you are just interested in sharing your alternative thoughts and reading others, why the endless back and forth over your opinions?  What do you gain?  If you are really interested in developing your ideas, why dont you take the afternoon off posting, go buy a small vacuum pump and chamber, and try to show how magnetism and downward forces have some proportionality to air pressure?   It seems to me (unless I am mistaken) that these are some central predictions of your concepts, why not show them demonstratively in reality rather than bicker endlessly about them?  Wouldnt this be a better way of exploring the concepts you have thought up?

Back to the topic at hand - if you think it is hopeless explaining your concept of magnetism to me for whatever reason, I will give up trying to get you to explain it simply and clearly.  In this case, please know though that I did try to understand it, I just couldn't get there from the words you were giving me. 

Still, I would hope though that you would want to share your concepts, and if so,  to try think about them a bit more, and find a way to express them in simple terms that clearly express the idea in your mind. 

My little magnet on the desk waits hopefully. 

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #837 on: March 03, 2021, 01:12:58 AM »
I accept it's difficult for people to grasp my set up and thoughts.
I find it fairly easy, and just realise it is wrong.

Too many people skew everything into their favour
You mean they accurately represent it to clearly show that you are wrong, which you don't like.

It's the reason why I counteract the questions and throw them back.
So I was right, they show you are wrong, you don't like being wrong and have no honest, rational answer to the question, so you use whatever dishonest BS you can to dismiss it.

You can't understand mine but I seriously cannot understand the stuff you follow. Not because I refuse to understand, it's because a lot of it makes no sense.
Yet all you can do is repeatedly dismiss it as nonsense and claim it makes no sense when you can't point anything wrong with it.
It is quite difficult to believe it isn't deliberate because I don't know anyone who is actually stupid enough to not be able to understand it.

You even show it isn't the case that you don't understand when you clearly show that you do, to try to make one point, but then directly contradict that and pretend to not understand what that same issue shows you are wrong.

I've argued this so it's pointless going down that path.
You mean you have repeatedly asserted it with the only attempt at justifications being outright lies.
That is not arguing it.

If you want to understand my model you must first push the served up on a platter model that you've adhered to for best part of your life, otherwise you will simply reference and discard and set yourself back to square one like kabool does and Jacky.
I use your own model and simple observations from reality and simple logic to show that you are wrong. I don't use the mainstream model which actually works to explain reality for that as it simply isn't needed.
Like I have said before, I don't need to know exactly how things work to be able to realise that your "explanation" is pure nonsense.

I class these people as cagey and dishonest in many aspects.
The cagey and dishonest ones are the ones that need to use whatever dishonest BS they can to avoid simple questions, that ones that look for any excuse at all to dismiss a post.

I know how I appear. I know how my stuff is made to look and how many people will refuse to see it from y side.
It isn't how it is made to look, it is simply how it looks for anyone who bothers to actually think about it.

The thing is I sometimes think I'm dealing with a lot of people who are on some kind of spectrum. Basically a mind focused on one specific and that's that.
Yes, the TRUTH, the ability for a model/explanation to actually explain reality, something you seem to hate.
Perhaps you should try focusing on it some time rather than continually focusing on the complicated gobbledygook you continually spout.

I just see nasty.
Of course you would, because I'm the mean nasty "Jacky" that keeps showing you are wrong, and you don't like that, so you use whatever dishonest BS you can to deflect.

Have you figured out how to explain the polarity of magnets with air yet?
Have you figured out how to "attractive" vortexes are magically repelled?

When you can get down to one thing at a time I will happily deal with you.
When you come back with copy and paste, I will overlook it all. I'm just letting you know.
And there you go lying yet again.
You are not happy to deal with when whenever I show you are wrong.
You use whatever dishonest BS you can, including BS like that to try to ignore everything I say that shows you are wrong.
I have given you plenty of chances to engage with one thing at a time, and every time you have fled or deflected from it.
Once you even later refused to engage with me and instead told to go find someone else, when I tried sticking to that one thing rather than running off on a tangent.

So like I have told you before, if you want me to stick to just one thing, then you start answering the question.
In this case, you start explaining one of the issues that have been raised and stop with the deflections and 50 different topics.

Because really, I know why you want to focus on only 1 thing at a time. If you do that, you can then jump between several different things to pretend you have a case and pretend you haven't been refuted, yet again.

So again, have you figured out how 2 vacuum cleaners magically repel each other?
If not, have you figured out what magic causes the pressure gradient in your atmosphere without gravity?
Have you figured out why your air then directly defies this pressure gradient and pushes things down rather than up?
Have you figured out why the air sometimes doesn't defy this pressure gradient and instead pushes things up?
Have you figured out why displacing more air reduces weight?

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #838 on: March 03, 2021, 01:16:16 AM »
In this tangent though, I would ask why you respond to everyone?  You have just said you dont understand the concepts the way other people do, and clearly other people do not understand your ideas, so isn't it just bickering over things the each side doesnt understand?  You are telling people that the concepts that you do not understand are nonsense, and vice versa?  If you are just interested in sharing your alternative thoughts and reading others, why the endless back and forth over your opinions?  What do you gain?  If you are really interested in developing your ideas, why dont you take the afternoon off posting, go buy a small vacuum pump and chamber, and try to show how magnetism and downward forces have some proportionality to air pressure?   It seems to me (unless I am mistaken) that these are some central predictions of your concepts, why not show them demonstratively in reality rather than bicker endlessly about them?  Wouldnt this be a better way of exploring the concepts you have thought up?
It is quite simple. By deflecting to back and forth, including his repeated insults and requests for explanations from others, or just telling them to try it, he can deflect from his complete inability to explain reality using his models and his inability to answer simple questions.

If he just stuck to describing his model and addressing issues with it, he would very quickly run out of "explanations" and need to admit he is wrong, or flee, as he eventually does with every thread after being refuted enough, just to bring up the same refuted nonsense later in another thread.

As for why he doesn't get evidence himself, likely because he knows the evidence would not support him.
He has already rejected the idea of weight being tied to air pressure, such that at lower pressure things weigh less, because in reality that isn't the case. That is yet another issue his model cannot explain.

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Stash

  • 7424
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #839 on: March 03, 2021, 01:16:41 AM »


Okay, so we are in a fluid like in a sink.  I have a little magnet on my desk.  This fluid that we are in (the air) is draining through a vortex in my little magnet on the desk?

Where does it drain to?  If we use a sink as a analogy, it doesnt drain back into itself, right?
It drains right back into the magnet.

I dont follow.  We are imagining it is like a sink with a hole, right?  The water flows out of the hole and goes somewhere else, it doesnt flow back into the hole does it?  But somehow in the magnet case, the magnet pulls atmosphere though it like a drain, but then air drains back into the magnet? 

This is really hard to follow.  I hope you realize that.  It might seem clear in your mind, but you are not communicating it clearly to others.  I am trying as hard as I can to understand the idea you have thought up but I am really struggling to grasp it.

Maube sceppy could draw this vortex on a map-map.

A diagram of any sorts would be incredibly useful.
Just take a look at the diagram of a magnet and it will give you a better clue.

I'm confused. Looking at some magnet diagrams, are you saying that it's the air that is traveling along all the different directions of arrows?

Here's one diagram:


Yep but in pressure terms not in a wind term.

Yeah, got it regarding pressure versus wind.

How does the pressure know to circle back around and follow the arrows? Regardless of orientation of the magnet? What if I put a magnet in low pressure vacuum, does it de-magnetize?

Back to the sinik analogy.
A consistently filling sink. Never emptying, even if the plug is pushed out a little, or a lot, depending.

Put that thought into atmosphere and understand that what is pushed in is also pushed out....but as it's pushed out it compresses to push back in.

It creates a vibration of atmosphere in the scenario and causes a velcro like interconnection between high and low pressure molecules by the process of compression and decompression.

Right, but with the sink analogy, the water (atmosphere) is running out of the sink causing the vortex. Are you saying that the end or side of a magnet where the arrows are running out of it is basically where the analogous "plug" is?

And you didn't directly address my questions:

- How does the pressure know to circle back around and follow the arrows? Regardless of orientation of the magnet? With the sink analogy, the water (atmosphere) goes where the drain pipe directs it. How is the atmosphere "directed" back around and knows where to go "push"?

- What if I put a magnet in low pressure vacuum, does it de-magnetize? In other words, do magnets work in a vacuum? And if they do, how does the vortex theory work if there's little to no atmosphere to swirl around and do the pushing?