ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist

Quote from: Themightykabool on April 13, 2021, 06:59:47 AM

What type of pressure pushes us down?

Atmospheric pressure.
You see, back to square one again.

Square one - define atmospheric pressure and how it differs from regular air pressure.

Its been asked many times.
Keep avoiding the question and ill keep asking it.

Pure BS, as repeatedly explained.
Including by the simple graphic you seem to hate as it so clearly shows the problem with your model:

Is the W, weight?
If so, weight is an end product of measured mass against a foundation of a scale plate or anything that holds a scale off the ground with dense mass within or hooked on...etc.

Atmospheric stacking is very simply push against resistance equally in all directions.
Action and equal and opposite reaction.

Take away the G and the W and simply replace with P (push) and R(resistance).

This works above and below all the way up the stacks with each layer.

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 13, 2021, 08:51:10 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on April 13, 2021, 06:59:47 AM

What type of pressure pushes us down?

Atmospheric pressure.
You see, back to square one again.

Square one - define atmospheric pressure and how it differs from regular air pressure.

Its been asked many times.
Keep avoiding the question and ill keep asking it.

Remember the gobstopper and its tight layers, right?

Imagine taking most of those layers away and having a set amount.
This would be our survivable air.
Reduce that and it becomes less dense as it sits a bit higher in the atmosphere because layers peel away and expand out to sit in the stack due to dense squeeze below trying to crush it back but succeeding in squeezing it up.

The higher the stacking system the more layers are peeled off and expand, or decompress...whichever way you want to visualise it.
No doubt you'll go right back to square one but what the hell.

None of that is a defintion of "atmosphere is..."

Try again
The word atomsphere means this and that and that and this, owed by a oicture of said taht of this of this of that.



Try it out
See if that aids your ability to communicate words so rhat others undedstand said words and are able to repeat, in theirbown words, back to you, in a sort of feedbakc loop, so that we all are in agreement to the definition of the common words used.

Now of course as previously mentioned by me and otheds, if your intent is to be a pos and cloud any sensible undersrand of YOUR words, then  byall mwans, troll away


Sidenote
Pinhole?
Eyeball?

Quote from: JackBlack on April 14, 2021, 02:56:18 AM

Pure BS, as repeatedly explained.
Including by the simple graphic you seem to hate as it so clearly shows the problem with your model:

Is the W, weight?

It can be considered the weight and would be by any sane person. But for this diagram, to avoid your nonsense about weight magically not being real, it is whatever force is acting on the air in addition to the air around it, which is trying to move it towards Earth which explains the pressure gradient.

Without this W you have F=G and thus there is no pressure gradient.

You need an extra force, no matter how much you want to pretend you don't.
Gravity provides this force and explains why there is a pressure gradient in the atmosphere.
Your air does not.

Atmospheric stacking is very simply push against resistance equally in all directions.

That is the key part, EQUAL!
That means it is the same force pushing up as pushing down. There would be no gradient. There would be no preferred directionality. Either of those requires it to be unequal.

Take away the G and the W and simply replace with P (push) and R(resistance).

No, you would need 2 separate ones.
You can take away F and replace it with P1, then take away -F and replace it with R1.

Then you do the same with G, making it P2, and with -G making it R2.

The air above pushes down, and it resists it, pushing back. Likewise, it pushes down on the air below, and it resists it.

But again, without this W, this force is the same and there is no gradient.

This push and resistance only works to explain a constant pressure from the bottom to the top, just like we can create sideways, where there is a constant pressure from left to right.


Again, you need an extra force to make the gradient.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

There is no air pressure from above keeping you or I on the earth.

Absolutely there is.

Until you can explain how the air magically defies the pressure which should push things upwards, there certainly is no air holding us to Earth.

Molecules/matter can never move freely around.
Everything requires a medium to move in, which means everything is against resistance to motion, always. No free movement, at all.

This is just your baseless claim you have no hope of justifying. Repeating the same lie wont make it true.

Again, the way things boil and things like SEMs show that is not the case at all.

Without this W you have F=G and thus there is no pressure gradient.

The W (weight) is only a thing when mass can be placed on a person made measuring scale to measure mass displacement of atmosphere and using the scale plate as the foundation resistance to that.

Other than this, weight does not exist, so placing it in atmosphere without a solid foundation, does not work, except in fantasy, just like the G (so called gravity).

Weight only exists when measured?

Weight only exists when measured?

Yep.
On a scale that shows allocated numbers for the resistance of mass against atmosphere.

Does my displacement (denp) only exist when it is measured?

If i found a bag of rocks equal to my displacement(denp) when weighed, do we cease to be equal afterwards?

Does my displacement (denp) only exist when it is measured?

If i found a bag of rocks equal to my displacement(denp) when weighed, do we cease to be equal afterwards?

A bag of rocks has to be measured to have a weight. You have to be measured to have a weight.
No measurement, no weight.
All you would be, would be a dense mass in atmosphere with a resistance against whatever solid it is you are on.

Pretty simple but difficult for you because you are right back to the start, once again.

well you say the value of the weight is only valid when measured.
i am either always displacing(denP) this air or not.
the air is pushing me down with the same consistency or not?
if it is, then the measured value, as soon as i step off the scale is still the same freaking value and - so back to square one - your ISSUE with existence of weight is irrelevant.



glad we cleared that one up.

Quote from: JackBlack on April 15, 2021, 03:10:32 AM

Without this W you have F=G and thus there is no pressure gradient.

The W (weight) is only a thing when mass can be placed on a person made measuring scale

Like we have been over countless times, if that garbage was true, unless you put a mass onto a scale, it wouldn't fall.
Things continue to exist, even when not measured.

The fact that things fall, even when they aren't measured shows that weight isn't just that reading on a scale.

But I already dealt with that, it doesn't matter what semantic BS you want to play, that force needs to exist in order to get your pressure gradient.
If you want to pretend that this force magically isn't weight and magically only becomes weight when you put it on a scale, go ahead, but it doesn't change the argument.

You need that force, a force acting on each layer other than a force from the air around it, to cause it to have a pressure gradient.

Without this force you have no pressure gradient.

And this is something you continually refuse to address, likely because you know that it kills your nonsense, because as soon as you have this, you have a force acting on mass other than air trying to move it towards Earth, meaning there is no need for your magical atmosphere.

so placing it in atmosphere without a solid foundation

Means that the object will fall because of this weight.

when a tree falls in the forest, and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Quote from: Smoke Machine on April 14, 2021, 01:34:54 AM

You just make this up as you go

Literally every scientific hypothesis so what's the problem?

Lol! Nice to see you can climb out of the dungeon when scg releases your shackles.

The problem is a scientific hypothesis is subject to scientific evaluation and must be falsifiable and testable. 'Nuff said.

Sceptimatic's lunacy is suitable for a children's book series or video game platform, where you dont have to worry about scientific evaluation.

well you say the value of the weight is only valid when measured.
i am either always displacing(denP) this air or not.
the air is pushing me down with the same consistency or not?
if it is, then the measured value, as soon as i step off the scale is still the same freaking value and - so back to square one - your ISSUE with existence of weight is irrelevant.



glad we cleared that one up.

You don't know your mass until you measure it to call it weight.
Simple as that.

Like we have been over countless times, if that garbage was true, unless you put a mass onto a scale, it wouldn't fall.
Things continue to exist, even when not measured.

Things do exist but only as mass, not weight, until they measure a weight on a person made scale that gives out a person made reading of that mass.

You would never be able to tell anyone how much you weigh if there were no scales.
All you would know is, this is heavier than that or this feels heavier and more dense than that.

Nothing more.

The scale is a resistance to mass placed upon it due to atmospheric displacement by that mass, which will give a reading of that resistance we call, weight.

Quote from: Themightykabool on April 15, 2021, 10:02:26 AM

well you say the value of the weight is only valid when measured.
i am either always displacing(denP) this air or not.
the air is pushing me down with the same consistency or not?
if it is, then the measured value, as soon as i step off the scale is still the same freaking value and - so back to square one - your ISSUE with existence of weight is irrelevant.



glad we cleared that one up.

You don't know your mass until you measure it to call it weight.
Simple as that.

But it exists nontheless.
So once again
Your point is a nonpoint.
It is irrelevant to any argument regarding gravity or denP.

The equivalent bag of rocks that your air(denp) makes is there whether or not you ever determine how many rocks it is in the first place.

It has as much relevance to your denP idea as your choice of bag colour.
Next time you bring up "weight" im going to tell you what colour my bag of rocks will be.

But it exists nontheless.
So once again
Your point is a nonpoint.
It is irrelevant to any argument regarding gravity or denP.

The equivalent bag of rocks that your air(denp) makes is there whether or not you ever determine how many rocks it is in the first place.

It has as much relevance to your denP idea as your choice of bag colour.
Next time you bring up "weight" im going to tell you what colour my bag of rocks will be.

Without a measuring tool like a scale, weight does not exist.

Get that firmly into your head.

The fact that measuring tools for the resistance of dense mass displacement against atmosphere, being made, we can measure a reading to give out a weight for mass.

Like I explained before but you don't ever seem to get, which never surprises me, anymore.

Weight is a force. Mass is independent of any force.

Weight is a force. Mass is independent of any force.

Nope.
Weight is a set of numbers attributed to the resistance of mass against its atmospheric displacement, on a person made scale.

Quote from: Themightykabool on April 15, 2021, 11:25:05 PM

But it exists nontheless.
So once again
Your point is a nonpoint.
It is irrelevant to any argument regarding gravity or denP.

The equivalent bag of rocks that your air(denp) makes is there whether or not you ever determine how many rocks it is in the first place.

It has as much relevance to your denP idea as your choice of bag colour.
Next time you bring up "weight" im going to tell you what colour my bag of rocks will be.

Without a measuring tool like a scale, weight does not exist.

Get that firmly into your head.

The fact that measuring tools for the resistance of dense mass displacement against atmosphere, being made, we can measure a reading to give out a weight for mass.

Like I explained before but you don't ever seem to get, which never surprises me, anymore.

Only applies to purple bags, not yellow

Quote from: sokarul on April 15, 2021, 11:48:31 PM

Weight is a force. Mass is independent of any force.

Nope.
Weight is a set of numbers attributed to the resistance of mass against its atmospheric displacement, on a person made scale.

Nope. Force equals mass x acceleration

This is why objects moving at constant velocity feel no force.

Quote from: sokarul on April 15, 2021, 11:48:31 PM

Weight is a force. Mass is independent of any force.

Nope.
Weight is a set of numbers attributed to the resistance of mass against its atmospheric displacement, on a person made scale.

This, like everything else is just a bunch of stuff you say.  What makes you think that’s actually how things work?

You don't know your mass until you measure it

Knowing it, and it existing, are 2 different things.
Just because you don't know the value of something until it is measured doesn't mean it only exists when you measure it.

Quote from: JackBlack on April 15, 2021, 02:41:31 PM

Like we have been over countless times, if that garbage was true, unless you put a mass onto a scale, it wouldn't fall.
Things continue to exist, even when not measured.

Things do exist but only as mass, not weight, until they measure a weight on a person made scale that gives out a person made reading of that mass.

No, mass and weight are separate.
Mass is your resistance to motion. Weight is the downwards force trying to make you go to Earth.

The relationship between mass and weight varies as you move around Earth.

Again, without weight, things would not fall.

You would never be able to tell anyone how much you weigh if there were no scales.

But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't have weight.

And yet again, you have tried to run off on a train of semantics to avoid the main point.

Once more, as clearly shown in this diagram:

Again, it doesn't matter what semantic BS you want to play, without that force of W, which has to act on the layer of air/whatever, in addition to the force from the air around it, you don't get a pressure gradient.

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 15, 2021, 11:54:25 PM

Quote from: sokarul on April 15, 2021, 11:48:31 PM

Weight is a force. Mass is independent of any force.

Nope.
Weight is a set of numbers attributed to the resistance of mass against its atmospheric displacement, on a person made scale.

Nope. Force equals mass x acceleration

This is why objects moving at constant velocity feel no force.

No such thing as a constant velocity without force.

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 15, 2021, 11:54:25 PM

Quote from: sokarul on April 15, 2021, 11:48:31 PM

Weight is a force. Mass is independent of any force.

Nope.
Weight is a set of numbers attributed to the resistance of mass against its atmospheric displacement, on a person made scale.

This, like everything else is just a bunch of stuff you say.  What makes you think that’s actually how things work?

By observation and simple experiments.

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 15, 2021, 09:10:23 PM

You don't know your mass until you measure it

Knowing it, and it existing, are 2 different things.
Just because you don't know the value of something until it is measured doesn't mean it only exists when you measure it.

Mass obviously exists. Measuring it to show a weight reading requires person made scales to show resistance of that mass against atmospheric pressure upon it.

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 15, 2021, 09:15:26 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on April 15, 2021, 02:41:31 PM

Like we have been over countless times, if that garbage was true, unless you put a mass onto a scale, it wouldn't fall.
Things continue to exist, even when not measured.

Things do exist but only as mass, not weight, until they measure a weight on a person made scale that gives out a person made reading of that mass.

No, mass and weight are separate.

Mass is mass. Weight is the reading of it, as above.

Weight is the downwards force trying to make you go to Earth.

No.
Weight is a person made numbered reading of mass resistance to atmospheric pressure.

The relationship between mass and weight varies as you move around Earth.

Yep due to varying pressures.

Again, without weight, things would not fall.

Things only fall if energy is applied to raise the object up. Opposite reaction to that action, equally.

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 15, 2021, 09:15:26 PM

You would never be able to tell anyone how much you weigh if there were no scales.

But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't have weight.

If you have no way to measure mass you have zero weight. You can understand that you're heavier than another object, or lighter but you have no weight.

And yet again, you have tried to run off on a train of semantics to avoid the main point.

Not at all.
I'm simply telling you that weight is merely a person made measurement of mass by using a scale to show numbered movements due to applied pressure of that mass by atmosphere that mass displaces upon that scale.

Once more, as clearly shown in this diagram:

That diagram should read force against force or push against push or resistance against push.
No need for weight nor gravity, so you can omit them.

Again, it doesn't matter what semantic BS you want to play, without that force of W, which has to act on the layer of air/whatever, in addition to the force from the air around it, you don't get a pressure gradient.

The force is atmospheric pressure. That's it. Nothing works without it.
Once again, weight is a reading of atmospheric force.
And a pressure gradient in my case is the stacking system, so there is a pressure gradient.

Quote from: Unconvinced on April 16, 2021, 12:14:00 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 15, 2021, 11:54:25 PM

Quote from: sokarul on April 15, 2021, 11:48:31 PM

Weight is a force. Mass is independent of any force.

Nope.
Weight is a set of numbers attributed to the resistance of mass against its atmospheric displacement, on a person made scale.

This, like everything else is just a bunch of stuff you say.  What makes you think that’s actually how things work?

By observation and simple experiments.

Oh really. What experiments have you done?

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 16, 2021, 02:28:24 AM

Quote from: Unconvinced on April 16, 2021, 12:14:00 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 15, 2021, 11:54:25 PM

Quote from: sokarul on April 15, 2021, 11:48:31 PM

Weight is a force. Mass is independent of any force.

Nope.
Weight is a set of numbers attributed to the resistance of mass against its atmospheric displacement, on a person made scale.

This, like everything else is just a bunch of stuff you say.  What makes you think that’s actually how things work?

By observation and simple experiments.

Oh really. What experiments have you done?

Many.

Possibly he did the one qhere he stood on a scale in an elevator and DIDNT see the weight change when elevator ACCELLERATED during start-stop.

Or hes the only person in history never to feel Gs on a rollercoaster.