Poll

Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?

Yes
6 (50%)
No
5 (41.7%)
I don't know
1 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 12

Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?

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Jamie

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Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« on: January 13, 2021, 05:43:09 AM »
I've heard Democratic talk of expanding the Supreme Court.

Now I know the Court has been expanded before, but I'm not really familiar with arguments favoring it. I'm pretty ambivalent towards the issue.

What are y'all's thoughts?
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Crouton

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2021, 06:14:18 AM »
I voted yes but I didn't have a better option.  I don't support adding justices exactly.  There are ways to "fix" the supreme court without packing it.  https://www.vox.com/21514454/supreme-court-amy-coney-barrett-packing-voting-rights  Packing it is sort of extreme.

I really like the idea of very long term limits of 18 years but I think that would take an amendment.  I think I also like the idea that a president gets to nominate a fixed number of justices every term and the court would sort of grow and shrink over time based on that.

But the reality is that not everyone in the democratic party is aoc and bernie sanders so packing the court with the slimmest of majorities that they have is extremely unlikely.
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JJA

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2021, 06:16:55 AM »
I support it, but know it's not going to happen.

Republicans are the party of dirty tricks and lies, Democrats just can't manage to ever rise to their level, even to fix things.

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DuckDodgers

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2021, 06:32:40 AM »
I voted no because I don't like the precedent it could set that whenever a party controls all 3 sections of the government, that they could get whatever number of justices installed they want.  I do think that term limits need to be applied to Supreme Court justices, that justice nomination "norms" need to be codified so that they can't be wielded like a sword whenever it seems fit, and I think it might be a good idea to require 2/3rds of the senate to confirm a justice to be able to moderate who gets in and prevent extremists on the bench.

The "norms" I refer to are along the lines of the way McConnell refused to even bring Garland up for a vote in Obama's last year with 11 months left on his term, but rushed through Barret with about 3 months left on Trump's term and an election happening in under a month.  Let's go ahead and codify no justice nominations in an election year and end this stupid rule being used as a weapon.
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markjo

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2021, 06:33:00 AM »
If the democrats increase the number of justices, then what's to stop the republicans from reducing the number later on?  No, I think that it's more important to have at least one stable(ish) branch of the government.  The pendulum inevitably swings back and forth as administrations come and go, so we just need to sit back and deal with it.
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Jamie

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2021, 06:33:51 AM »
I voted no because I don't like the precedent it could set that whenever a party controls all 3 sections of the government, that they could get whatever number of justices installed they want.  I do think that term limits need to be applied to Supreme Court justices, that justice nomination "norms" need to be codified so that they can't be wielded like a sword whenever it seems fit, and I think it might be a good idea to require 2/3rds of the senate to confirm a justice to be able to moderate who gets in and prevent extremists on the bench.

The "norms" I refer to are along the lines of the way McConnell refused to even bring Garland up for a vote in Obama's last year with 11 months left on his term, but rushed through Barret with about 3 months left on Trump's term and an election happening in under a month.  Let's go ahead and codify no justice nominations in an election year and end this stupid rule being used as a weapon.

I'd say I agree with your points.
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DuckDodgers

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2021, 06:40:47 AM »
If the democrats increase the number of justices, then what's to stop the republicans from reducing the number later on?  No, I think that it's more important to have at least one stable(ish) branch of the government.  The pendulum inevitably swings back and forth as administrations come and go, so we just need to sit back and deal with it.
The Supreme Court's pendulum doesn't swing quite as quickly and there is a good chance we will be dealing with Trump's picks for the court for the next 30 years.  Clarence Thomas was selected by Bush Sr. and Beyer was selected by Clinton, both of whom have been out of office for at least 20 years now, yet we are still dealing with their picks.

I agree with you on not adding members to the court, but there has to be something better than "sit back and deal with it".
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

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markjo

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2021, 06:45:15 AM »
I agree with you on not adding members to the court, but there has to be something better than "sit back and deal with it".
The only ways out of a lifetime appointment are retirement, impeachment and death.  What do you have in mind?
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JJA

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2021, 07:08:00 AM »
"Republicans stole Obamas pick, but you have to live with it because we wouldn't want to force the Republicans to steal even more, would we?"

"Don't cry or struggle, just let your husband hit you or you will make him even angrier."

No, it's time the Democrats stopped being the good guys, stopped taking one for the team, stopped letting Republicans abuse America and it's institutions.  It's not like Republicans will suddenly start being nice again. Mitch has shown that over and over.

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Shifter

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2021, 07:39:29 AM »
I don't think a Supreme court should ever be partisan. Or religious. (keeping with separating church and state). Have an even number of judges too
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markjo

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2021, 07:42:14 AM »
An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leads to a world that is blind and toothless.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2021, 08:06:18 AM »
No, I do not think they should expand the Supreme Court. One side always panics over the other side having a majority.

I think we need to figure out how to stop Congress from playing politics with the SC. Maybe a rule that says they're not allowed to block the confirmation process, like Mitch did with Merrick Garland. They don't have to agree with the nomination, but they should have the hearings, they should honor the process, they should have to go on the official record for why they approve or disapprove of a nominee.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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markjo

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2021, 08:40:17 AM »
Well, there is the Thurmond Rule that says that you shouldn't appoint a supreme court justice during an election year.  Unfortunately it isn't a real rule and it isn't applied consistently.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Crouton

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2021, 08:49:00 AM »
Even if there weren't shenanigans it seems to me that it's a terrible way to decide the make up of a supreme court.  Suppose no one died or retired during Obama's 2 terms but during Trump's single term 4 of them died?  You'd have one political party decide the make up of the supreme court for the next 30 years through sheer dumb luck.
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boydster

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2021, 08:53:27 AM »
If the Supreme Court were to be expanded, I think it should absolutely be written into law exactly how the number of justices is to be determined, and any changes would need to be approved by a supermajority in order to pass - no "nuclear option" to get rid of that requirement. I'm pretty sure when the court was changed to 9, that was to align with the number of federal appellate courts at the time. If that was the reason 9 was the chosen number, then it would make sense to make sure the number of justices continues to match the number of appellate courts, and that would remove the political gamesmanship from the matter entirely. But in this moment, the number of federal appellate courts is 13 - 4 more, and (coincidentally) precisely the number of judges people discuss adding when they are talking about "packing the courts" right now, so this moment in time is going to be particularly problematic to try and get that passed.

I support expanding or contracting the court whenever the metric used to determine the number of justices fluctuates. Alternatively, I would also support putting a law on the books that just flat-out sets the maximum number of justices that can sit on the SC, period. And in either case, I'd also support making sure that however the number of justices is determined, it requires a 2/3 majority to even consider making a change to that law. Basically, my support would be to close the loophole that allows this to even be an issue that can be weaponized by partisan fuckery.

Also, if the appellate court thing were to become law, I wouldn't want any single administration to choose all 4 new justices to be seated. Make it one additional justice per presidential term, while also allowing the sitting president to replace justices that retire or pass away like they already do.

With all that said, I'm voting yes in the poll, but with the clarifications stated above.

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JJA

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2021, 08:55:43 AM »
I like the idea of making it a supermajority to change the number of justices.

But can't the Republicans (or anyone in power) just change that rule later to take it back to a simple majority?

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Crouton

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2021, 08:57:49 AM »
A chamber of congress has a category of rules they they alone decide.  The filibuster falls under this.  If there were a bill passed by both houses then the senate couldn't just up and decide to break it.
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JerkFace

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2021, 05:12:36 PM »
Just change it to, fixed terms ( or set an age limit ) and a 2/3 senate majority to confirm.

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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markjo

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Re: Do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2021, 05:22:00 PM »
I like the idea of making it a supermajority to change the number of justices.

But can't the Republicans (or anyone in power) just change that rule later to take it back to a simple majority?
Although Congress has the power to decide the number of SC justices, they can't change that number on a whim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judiciary_Act_of_1869
Quote
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the Supreme Court of the United States shall hereafter consist of the Chief Justice of the United States and eight associate justices, any six of whom shall constitute a quorum; and for the purposes of this act there shall be appointed an additional associate justice of said court. (bold added)
     Judiciary Act of 1869 1
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.