Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked

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Jamie

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Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« on: January 04, 2021, 11:41:38 AM »
It isn't entirely strange that Americans have been hit the hardest by COVID.

Sure, we somehow managed to politicize and weaponize a public health crisis, but anyways.

I'm not exactly surprised that, in a nation of fat, lazy office workers with shit diets, we got hit the hardest.

Sure, sure -- Sweden got to stay open, but they don't have double bacon cheeseburgers with donuts for buns. (What they do have are more bike paths.)

Thoughts?
There is a preverb in Turkish:  "Do not think everybody have beard is your grandfather".

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markjo

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2021, 11:55:31 AM »
America didn't get hit hard because we're fat and lazy.  America got (and continues to get) hit hard because freedom means saying no to taking prudent precautions to avoid a highly contagious and potentially life threatening respiratory disease.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Jamie

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2021, 12:06:35 PM »
America didn't get hit hard because we're fat and lazy.  America got (and continues to get) hit hard because freedom means saying no to taking prudent precautions to avoid a highly contagious and potentially life threatening respiratory disease.

For sure. I do wonder how different the outcome might've been, though, if nearly half of American adults weren't obese or vitamin D deficient.
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markjo

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2021, 01:31:30 PM »
Enough healthy and fit people got whammied pretty badly where I doubt that obesity is the only factor.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Lorddave

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2021, 02:07:25 PM »
Its a combination of population density, nation size, varied policies for dealing with the pandemic, and "freedom".
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2021, 02:52:25 PM »
@markjo

"America got (and continues to get) hit hard because freedom means saying no to taking prudent precautions to avoid a highly contagious and potentially life threatening respiratory disease."

So then why do you think the repercussions amongst those people that chose to live their lives normally, like sweden (and saved a large amount of money doing so), were so much worse in america?  You could easily chalk it up to strain and ancestry if one were so inclined, and jamie's point about general health is completely sound.

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markjo

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2021, 03:13:24 PM »
Jamie and Jack, have you looked at Sweden's covid numbers lately?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Jamie

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2021, 03:41:12 PM »
Jamie and Jack, have you looked at Sweden's covid numbers lately?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

Yeah, Sweden staying open was probably a mistake.

I apparently can't get away with saying anything remotely funny or humorous these days without a /s...
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markjo

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2021, 04:01:29 PM »
I apparently can't get away with saying anything remotely funny or humorous these days without a /s...
That's why we have CN and AR.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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JerkFace

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2021, 04:28:52 PM »
It isn't entirely strange that Americans have been hit the hardest by COVID.

Sure, we somehow managed to politicize and weaponize a public health crisis, but anyways.

I'm not exactly surprised that, in a nation of fat, lazy office workers with shit diets, we got hit the hardest.

Sure, sure -- Sweden got to stay open, but they don't have double bacon cheeseburgers with donuts for buns. (What they do have are more bike paths.)

Thoughts?

Trump realized** early that it was a threat to him getting re-elected simply because the sock market and the ecomony would crash.  So he chose deliberately to downplay it lie about it and take every opportunity to pretend it didn't exist,  he's still doing it.

His loyal nutters just fell into line with the propaganda.

That failure of leadership is why the US is in such a shit hole today.

** check what Trump said on the Woodward tapes.

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Jamie

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2021, 05:49:21 PM »
Quit hijacking every thread with your TDS. That's got nothing to do with this.

I made this thread to talk about if Americans being a generally unhealthy populace -- particularly with regards to health indicators that are correlated with severe COVID outcomes -- affected how badly COVID hit us.
There is a preverb in Turkish:  "Do not think everybody have beard is your grandfather".

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Jamie

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2021, 05:50:22 PM »
That's why we have CN and AR.

I can't really argue with that.
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markjo

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2021, 06:00:35 PM »
I made this thread to talk about if Americans being a generally unhealthy populace -- particularly with regards to health indicators that are correlated with severe COVID outcomes -- affected how badly COVID hit us.
It's one reason, but by no means the only reason.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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JerkFace

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2021, 06:18:41 PM »
Quit hijacking every thread with your TDS. That's got nothing to do with this.

I made this thread to talk about if Americans being a generally unhealthy populace -- particularly with regards to health indicators that are correlated with severe COVID outcomes -- affected how badly COVID hit us.

If you had an honest president you would have had tens of thousands less deaths.   It's not TDS, its a fact.

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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DuckDodgers

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2021, 06:28:28 AM »
https://www.heritage.org/data-visualizations/public-health/covid-19-deaths-by-age/
A majority of COVID deaths in the US is in the population 55 and over, with each older age group having more deaths than the previous age group.  A healthier lifestyle may have saved some of these people, but it likely wouldn't have made more than a 10% difference in the outcome numbers.

There is only 1 real reason the US is getting hit so hard, and that is leadership.  If Republican leadership from city levels up to the federal level had gotten on board with wearing masks and socially distancing then we would be looking at a very different outcome for the US.  There is no surprise that just in the past week or 2 several GOP congressmen have died from COVID, that the hotspots for COVID are generally in the south and midwest.  Wearing a mask could have been framed as doing your patriotic duty to protect your fellow Americans, but instead it was framed as a communist power grab to take away your freedom, thus ensuring a sizable portion of the population refuses to wear them and continue to spread the disease.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

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Jamie

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2021, 06:45:04 AM »
https://www.heritage.org/data-visualizations/public-health/covid-19-deaths-by-age/
A majority of COVID deaths in the US is in the population 55 and over, with each older age group having more deaths than the previous age group.  A healthier lifestyle may have saved some of these people, but it likely wouldn't have made more than a 10% difference in the outcome numbers.

I'm no doctor, but I can't imagine that a virus is ageist. Obviously older people are dying from it more frequently.

Is it likely that certain comorbidities -- obesity (i.e. diabetes, hypertension, etc.), vitamin D and zinc deficiency, and so on -- exist more frequently among older people?

Note: Just an interesting point about the data present in that link you shared: "CDC data also show that Americans, regardless of age group, are far more likely to die of something other than COVID-19. Even among those in the most heavily impacted age group (85 and older), only 10.8 percent of all deaths since February 2020 were due to COVID-19."

Of course that's still way too many deaths and we should be taking COVID seriously, but the data challenges alarmism yet again.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 06:46:49 AM by Jamie »
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Jamie

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2021, 06:51:47 AM »
If you had an honest president you would have had tens of thousands less deaths.   It's not TDS, its a fact.

Yes, Trump's rhetoric would've magically changed the course of a pandemic and altered the very function of a virus.  ::)

C'mon, dude, that's just intellectually dishonest. Was his rhetoric at all helpful? No. Was it probably damaging? Yes.

But this pandemic really went sour because everyday Americans just don't care. It's that simple. Not enough people take this virus seriously enough and most people somehow figure they won't end up a part of a statistic.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2021, 06:57:44 AM »
People 55 and older also grew up in a time when everyone smoked. I can remember riding in smoke filled cars when I was a kid.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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markjo

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2021, 07:04:05 AM »
If you had an honest president you would have had tens of thousands less deaths.   It's not TDS, its a fact.

Yes, Trump's rhetoric would've magically changed the course of a pandemic and altered the very function of a virus.  ::)
It's not a question of changing the function of a virus.  It's a question of changing people's attitudes (and thereby their actions) concerning the virus.  You'd be surprised at to how much influence a role model can have on society.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 07:05:48 AM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Jamie

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2021, 10:20:09 AM »
Unfortunately. Something happened to thinking for yourself somewhere along the way.
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DuckDodgers

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2021, 01:25:59 PM »
https://www.heritage.org/data-visualizations/public-health/covid-19-deaths-by-age/
A majority of COVID deaths in the US is in the population 55 and over, with each older age group having more deaths than the previous age group.  A healthier lifestyle may have saved some of these people, but it likely wouldn't have made more than a 10% difference in the outcome numbers.

I'm no doctor, but I can't imagine that a virus is ageist. Obviously older people are dying from it more frequently.

Is it likely that certain comorbidities -- obesity (i.e. diabetes, hypertension, etc.), vitamin D and zinc deficiency, and so on -- exist more frequently among older people?

Note: Just an interesting point about the data present in that link you shared: "CDC data also show that Americans, regardless of age group, are far more likely to die of something other than COVID-19. Even among those in the most heavily impacted age group (85 and older), only 10.8 percent of all deaths since February 2020 were due to COVID-19."

Of course that's still way too many deaths and we should be taking COVID seriously, but the data challenges alarmism yet again.
It's not that the virus is ageist.  It's that as people grow older their bodies tend to breakdown in one way or another.  Even people who live a healthy lifestyle can still develop illnesses that would make them susceptible to COVID as they grow older.  The data strongly suggests that age is a major factor in a person's outcome from COVID.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

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Jamie

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2021, 01:41:46 PM »
Again, I'm wondering how much lifestyle factors are playing a role here. It seems like they only talk about age on the news as if COVID knows whether you're 29 or 33.

When, really, a fit, healthy 52-year-old probably stands a better chance than an obese office worker who's 31-years-old.

And it's not like comorbidities like obesity are far-flung -- nearly every one in two American adults is obese.

I just can't not think that part of the price we're paying to COVID is due to our burgeoning public health crisis which we've been battling for literally decades. We're one of the unhealthiest countries on the face of the earth.
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JerkFace

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2021, 02:46:29 PM »
Unfortunately. Something happened to thinking for yourself somewhere along the way.

I think I see the problem...   It's not a case of "thinking for yourself"  or some imagined infringement of individual freedom. 

When half the United States thinks coronavirus is a hoax and it's fine to hold mass rallies and crowded indoor parties,  it's time to stop and ask why do they think like that?

There's at least 350,000 Americans can no longer think for themselves.  FFS
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Jamie

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2021, 04:24:27 PM »
I think I see the problem...   It's not a case of "thinking for yourself"  or some imagined infringement of individual freedom. 

When half the United States thinks coronavirus is a hoax and it's fine to hold mass rallies and crowded indoor parties,  it's time to stop and ask why do they think like that?

There's at least 350,000 Americans can no longer think for themselves.  FFS

Half the U.S. doesn't think COVID is a hoax. I know that because you're saying that half the U.S. voted for Trump and they all think COVID is a hoax, right? I voted for Trump and I practice social distancing and wear a mask in public. What do you make of me? It's not like I'm a fucking unicorn. I live in a deeply red state and, when I went to the polls on Election Day, most people in line were spacing themselves apart and wearing masks.

The people who think COVID is a hoax (of which they are very much a minority) probably think like that not because of Trump but because of confirmation bias and their lack of education, i.e. they look to sources which confirm what they already think and they can't think critically anyway. Then the media plays up that angle because people like to watch stupid shit and feel self-righteous and virtue signal.

Obviously there's 350,000 dead Americans. That's not really a statement though. It's just a meaningless observation of a fact.

My point concerns how that number may be lower if we weren't all so fat and sick already, like how you're sick with TDS.
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markjo

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2021, 04:38:44 PM »
My point concerns how that number may be lower if we weren't all so fat and sick already, like how you're sick with TDS.
Saying that healthy people die less often than fat and sick people is a revelation along the lines of the discoveries that water is wet, fire is hot and the earth is flat.

Although it's true, the overall situation isn't that simple.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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JerkFace

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2021, 05:00:54 PM »
My point concerns how that number may be lower if we weren't all so fat and sick already, like how you're sick with TDS.
Saying that healthy people die less often than fat and sick people is a revelation along the lines of the discoveries that water is wet, fire is hot and the earth is flat.

Although it's true, the overall situation isn't that simple.

The question Jamie is asking is why is the USA so much worse at controlling the coronavirus than just about every other country on earth.

It's a good question,  and the answer is complex, but the biggest factor at play is the lack of leadership,  Jamie thinks that my making this observation is just Trump Derangement Syndrome.   

There's your problem right there.  Failure to recognize that the failure of Trump's leadership is the primary factor in the failure of the US response.

I'd break it down into several areas,  first I would say that silencing/censoring the CDC is high on the list.  Attempting to supress the data by making the WH part of the data reporting chain.   Promoting "quack" cures like hydroxy by Fox and Right wing media.  Lying about the severity in the early stages.

Sacking people like Bright,  and putting nutters like Atlas in charge.  White house policy of promoting herd immunity.

Need I go on.   


Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Jamie

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2021, 05:20:23 PM »
The question Jamie is asking is why is the USA so much worse at controlling the coronavirus than just about every other country on earth.

It's a good question,  and the answer is complex, but the biggest factor at play is the lack of leadership,  Jamie thinks that my making this observation is just Trump Derangement Syndrome.   

There's your problem right there.  Failure to recognize that the failure of Trump's leadership is the primary factor in the failure of the US response.

I'd break it down into several areas,  first I would say that silencing/censoring the CDC is high on the list.  Attempting to supress the data by making the WH part of the data reporting chain.   Promoting "quack" cures like hydroxy by Fox and Right wing media.  Lying about the severity in the early stages.

Sacking people like Bright,  and putting nutters like Atlas in charge.  White house policy of promoting herd immunity.

Need I go on.

How can his leadership fail when his stupidity and wrongness about COVID are utter irrelevancies?

The reality is that Americans -- everyday people like you and me -- didn't do enough or care enough. The data was still there; the news sites still did their reporting; the clinical evidence and research about "quack cures" was available; the fact-checking existed the whole time. I heard Trump's rhetoric and saw his response and went, "Nah, he's got this one wrong. I'm gonna do my own thing."

Nothing stopped anyone else from doing that.

People just didn't do enough or care enough. It's as simple as that. And yes, it's frustrating that Americans are like that.
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JerkFace

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2021, 05:26:01 PM »
People just didn't do enough or care enough. It's as simple as that. And yes, it's frustrating that Americans are like that.

Do you see a difference between the behaviour of Republicans and Democrats with respect to Covid prevention measures.

If so,  why the differerence?

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Jamie

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2021, 05:38:45 PM »
Sure, Republicans like to attend church and rallies and Democrats like to get their haircuts and go out to eat.

Either way, both groups of assholes are defying measures to prevent COVID.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why Americans Got Corona Krane-Kicked
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2021, 06:20:12 PM »
I live in BFE, most of the people I know irl are conservatives. There was resistance to following guidelines from some of them, of course, but most people were being careful. The ones who didn't want to wear masks had a weird attitude, like you can't tell me what to do! The rest of us just didn't want to get sick.

Most of the people I talk to online are progressives or even farther to the left. You'd think they were all obeying the guidelines and believing the science, but a surprising (to me) number of them are against the lock downs, masks, and the vaccine.

I do think Trump should have handled the whole thing better. He could have convinced his followers that wearing masks was patriotic. He could have had a million grannies sewing MAGA masks!  The Democrats should have practiced what they preached. They lock down their states, but break all the rules they expect people to follow. A year into the plague and they were vacationing while telling regular people to stay home.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.