Poll

Why do you support Joe Biden

He is not Donald Trump
9 (37.5%)
He will make Americans better off financially
3 (12.5%)
He will be better for the environment
6 (25%)
He will take away our guns
1 (4.2%)
He will be an open door with immigration
0 (0%)
He will give us free stuff
2 (8.3%)
I don't
3 (12.5%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Voting closed: December 15, 2020, 06:01:46 PM

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Why do you support Joe Biden

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2020, 02:49:09 PM »
Most sane gun owners (of which I am one) already have their guns stored in a safe.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2020, 03:01:15 PM »
Quote from: Jamie on November 16, 2020, 02:45:19 PM
Quote from: Shifter on November 16, 2020, 02:34:02 PM
Can anyone point to where Biden wants to take away people's guns or get rid of the 2nd amendment? Or is it just repugnican bluster?

I mean, supporting background checks is hardly crippling the 2nd amendment.

Hence why I used the word "reduce." He isn't going to take away our guns and there's no way he could, even if he wanted to.

Biden seeks, for example, to hold gun manufacturers accountable for contributing to gun violence, but curiously, he isn't interested in holding spoon manufacturers accountable for contributing to the obesity epidemic.

Also directly from the site: "Require gun owners to safely store their weapons. Biden will pass legislation requiring firearm owners to store weapons safely in their homes." Well, what does that mean? Define "safely." Where do we draw that line? Isn't it my gun, and my home?

I've got some concerns is all.

Many home owners get a gun because they feel it makes them safer. Only for it to increase the likelihood that someone they care about dies thanks to the gun.

I guess safely could mean not leaving it lying around where a kid could just take it and play with it?

Of course, if your gun is in a safe and not loaded with the ammo stored somewhere else, in the event of a break in in the middle of the night, it might be annoying since that event is the reason you may have wanted it

Could save a life when the wife comes home late at night and the husband is spooked by the dark silhouette of his wife creeping quietly to bed though (as some have been killed that way)
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JJA

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2020, 03:07:30 PM »
Quote from: Jamie on November 16, 2020, 02:27:08 PM
Trump supports dismantling the ACA for being costly, frustrating, and inefficient; Biden supports renegotiating parts of the ACA and expanding it. I feel that the free market could handle healthcare, like most things, better.

Let me correct you here.  Trump want's to destroy the ACA because he hates Obama and anything he touched.

He doesn't want to replace it with anything because he doesn't care.  He had 2 years to come up with a plan and pass it, and another 2 years to even come up with a plan. Nothing.  Nothing but telling people ACA is bad.

ACA (Or ObamaCare as it was called by Republicans until people started to LIEK it) has it's problems but has improved healthcare drastically for millions of Americans.

I live with pre-existing conditions. Before ObamaCare I didn't have insurance for years at a time because I simply couldn't get it.  When I did get it, it invariably got canceled because they didn't want someone with health problems hurting their bottom line.

Trump, and people like you want to take my health care away from me. That's what you're saying when you vote to dismantle it.  You can claim you just want something better but until you actually have a frigging plan, don't get rid of the only thin that has helped millions, and kept costs down and improved availability of plans that actually provide CARE and not just a cheap feel-good that ends up leaving you to die on the street.

I speak from personal experience here.  If Trump and the GOP had their way, I'd have no heath care. Screw them.  Screw for-profit insurance who's main goal is to charge people as much as they can and provide as little as they can get away with. That's not just wrong, it's evil.
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Jamie

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2020, 03:18:16 PM »
Quote from: JJA on November 16, 2020, 03:07:30 PM
Let me correct you here.  Trump want's to destroy the ACA because he hates Obama and anything he touched.

He doesn't want to replace it with anything because he doesn't care.  He had 2 years to come up with a plan and pass it, and another 2 years to even come up with a plan. Nothing.  Nothing but telling people ACA is bad.

ACA (Or ObamaCare as it was called by Republicans until people started to LIEK it) has it's problems but has improved healthcare drastically for millions of Americans.

I live with pre-existing conditions. Before ObamaCare I didn't have insurance for years at a time because I simply couldn't get it.  When I did get it, it invariably got canceled because they didn't want someone with health problems hurting their bottom line.

Trump, and people like you want to take my health care away from me. That's what you're saying when you vote to dismantle it.  You can claim you just want something better but until you actually have a frigging plan, don't get rid of the only thin that has helped millions, and kept costs down and improved availability of plans that actually provide CARE and not just a cheap feel-good that ends up leaving you to die on the street.

I speak from personal experience here.  If Trump and the GOP had their way, I'd have no heath care. Screw them.  Screw for-profit insurance who's main goal is to charge people as much as they can and provide as little as they can get away with. That's not just wrong, it's evil.

I'm not gonna pretend I know exactly what needs to be done to fix healthcare. I'm also not gonna pretend that Trump's got the clearest of plans either.

I disagree with your assessment of the situation, however. I still feel that the ACA is bad legislation. I don't think it's the spawn of Satan, but it's flawed and there very well may be a better approach.

And Trump has done some positive things for healthcare.

Anyway, I'm glad that at least you've benefited from the ACA and had consistent coverage. I wanna be sure that, whatever better solution we find, your coverage is sustained.
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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2020, 03:33:11 PM »
The ACA has protections for preexisting conditions.  This is without exaggeration a matter of life and death to a lot of people.  I think it also eliminates lifetime caps.

On the other hand the "affordable" part of it fails pretty hard.  I've never had to use it but I think my sister got a quite for like $600 a month which is a hard sell if you're broke.

To say Trump doesn't have the clearest of plans is an understatement.  He has exactly nothing planned.  If he succeeded in destroying Obamacare he would just sort of hope that the free market fixed it.
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JJA

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2020, 03:37:17 PM »
Quote from: Jamie on November 16, 2020, 03:18:16 PM
Quote from: JJA on November 16, 2020, 03:07:30 PM
Let me correct you here.  Trump want's to destroy the ACA because he hates Obama and anything he touched.

He doesn't want to replace it with anything because he doesn't care.  He had 2 years to come up with a plan and pass it, and another 2 years to even come up with a plan. Nothing.  Nothing but telling people ACA is bad.

ACA (Or ObamaCare as it was called by Republicans until people started to LIEK it) has it's problems but has improved healthcare drastically for millions of Americans.

I live with pre-existing conditions. Before ObamaCare I didn't have insurance for years at a time because I simply couldn't get it.  When I did get it, it invariably got canceled because they didn't want someone with health problems hurting their bottom line.

Trump, and people like you want to take my health care away from me. That's what you're saying when you vote to dismantle it.  You can claim you just want something better but until you actually have a frigging plan, don't get rid of the only thin that has helped millions, and kept costs down and improved availability of plans that actually provide CARE and not just a cheap feel-good that ends up leaving you to die on the street.

I speak from personal experience here.  If Trump and the GOP had their way, I'd have no heath care. Screw them.  Screw for-profit insurance who's main goal is to charge people as much as they can and provide as little as they can get away with. That's not just wrong, it's evil.

I'm not gonna pretend I know exactly what needs to be done to fix healthcare. I'm also not gonna pretend that Trump's got the clearest of plans either.

I disagree with your assessment of the situation, however. I still feel that the ACA is bad legislation. I don't think it's the spawn of Satan, but it's flawed and there very well may be a better approach.

And Trump has done some positive things for healthcare.

Anyway, I'm glad that at least you've benefited from the ACA and had consistent coverage. I wanna be sure that, whatever better solution we find, your coverage is sustained.

Why do you feel the ACA is bad legislation?  You have to have some reasons.  What did it do you think is worse than what we had before?

It's reduced the rate of medical inflation.

It's forced health care companies to provide plans that give you actual medical coverage, not fake plans that don't cover anything but a $20 yearly checkup.

It's given people with pre-existing conditions healthcare, a literal life saver for many of us.

And I remember Trumps health care 'plan'.  It was full of nothing.  He claims to want to protect people with pre-existing conditions, but all he has DONE is try and destroy the only plan that ACTUALLY fixed that problem.

How was his plan to work? Nobody knows, he never revealed any actual details... it's no plan to just state "Yeah don't worry everyone will have great health care, promise!" so to say he did anything is bullshit. He didn't DO anything, just made wild claims while he tried to destroy the current, working plan. 

And of course there is a better approach to ACA.  ACA is a band aid, the minimum that Obama could accomplish at the time.  The fact that Republicans blocked him from doing anything better is NO reason to trust them with doing it, they clearly have zero ideas and no desire to actually help or they wouldn't have spend the last 12 years sabotaging it.
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Jamie

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2020, 03:47:52 PM »
Quote from: JJA on November 16, 2020, 03:37:17 PM
Why do you feel the ACA is bad legislation?  You have to have some reasons.  What did it do you think is worse than what we had before?

Here's an article I like about just that.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2020, 03:48:42 PM »
Socialised health care is an investment. Not a burden. A healthy nation is prosperous. A nation that gives a damn about its citizens pays dividends for generations

It's odd how so many people who benefit from such a system would vote for a guy like Trump who essentially kicks them in the teeth to line the pockets of uber rich arseholes in the insurance game.
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Jamie

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2020, 03:51:50 PM »
Now I've landed myself into a catch-22.

I said I wasn't gonna stick around in these political threads too long, but here I am. I think we've all pretty much made up our minds here and trying to out-do the other person is a waste of our time. Fake internet points or some equivalent don't mean much.

I either quit responding, which shows I "can't defend my points" or something, or I "cop-out."

I'm boned.
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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2020, 03:55:48 PM »
Ahahahahaha!  You're stuck now like a fly in fly paper!

Seriously though I respect your ability to defend your point of view, even if it stands at odds with mine.
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Jamie

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2020, 03:56:57 PM »
Quote from: Crouton on November 16, 2020, 03:55:48 PM
Ahahahahaha!  You're stuck now like a fly in fly paper!

Seriously though I respect your ability to defend your point of view, even if it stands at odds with mine.

I appreciate that. Conversing with you has been very relaxing and I really enjoy the different perspective you bring to the table.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2020, 03:58:44 PM »
Speaking from a non USA perspective

The only 'insurance' I buy is ambulance cover for the family. $12 a month. That's it. I could buy higher cover but I don't see the point. Medicare will take care of any emergency for free. Extra cover allows me to get elective surgeries to which I still need to pay a hefty 'gap' anyway.

My work as far as I know doesn't give me private health cover either. Doesn't bother me

At the end of the financial year I pay a levy for Medicare out of my taxable income. It's not much. If I'm uber rich and are too much of a tight arse to even get the $12 a month ambulance cover, I pay a surcharge (Americans call them 'fines' lol)

I'm my 39 years I've relied on an emergency only once. A broken foot. My son when he was born with Respitory Distress Syndrome also benefited from it. Without Medicare he'd be dead. His treatment probably cost the country hundreds of thousands of dollars at a guess. I'm sure he'll pay back the debt throughout a life time of paying taxes and providing prosperity to the nation ;) (as long as I don't f&#k up the parenting gig)
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Quote from: sokarul
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2020, 04:02:53 PM »
Insurance is the reason we can't afford healthcare in the US.

Also, dear Jamie. Talking about politics is fun, especially with people you disagree with. I just wish you didn't repeat propaganda as if it's true :(
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Quote from: Thork on November 27, 2012, 12:25:43 PM
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markjo

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2020, 04:16:44 PM »
Quote from: Jamie on November 16, 2020, 03:51:50 PM
I either quit responding, which shows I "can't defend my points" or something, or I "cop-out."
False dichotomy.  You forgot the "ran out of f***s to give" option.
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JJA

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2020, 04:22:02 PM »
Quote from: Jamie on November 16, 2020, 03:47:52 PM
Quote from: JJA on November 16, 2020, 03:37:17 PM
Why do you feel the ACA is bad legislation?  You have to have some reasons.  What did it do you think is worse than what we had before?

Here's an article I like about just that.

Tom likes to just throw links out there and not discuss them.  Don't be a Tom.

Let me see, yeah, I hate that article, it's just anti-ObamaCare propganda.

1. Company health care plans are a horrible idea to begin with. Why should I have to stick with a crappy job for fear of losing my insurance?  Company insurance isn't a gift, it's a hostage situation with you and your family.  You should be able to choose ANY plan you want, not just what your company offers. WHy should they have any say in YOUR healthcare?

2. Ok, so health care is expensive. ObamaCare is helping there, so what's the problem again?  Eliminate ObamaCare and prices will go back up even faster. Good?

3. So... something about if you use Medicare you should be angry because other people are getting money for health care instead of you?  Ok?

4. Oh no the IRS is going to be deciding stuff about my taxes. Whatever will I do.

5. Uhh.,.. whatever? YEah, ACA is not health care, it just kind of you know, gives me the ability to buy it.  I should get reid of teh ACA and go back to not having health care?

6. Wot? Something about felling better and placeboes?

7. So.. the ACA cost money and gave millions of people health care but didn't get EVERYONE. SO the answer is.. throw all those people off their new health care. Yeah, thats better.  Why not, I don't know, make ACA better?  Add to it?  Improve it?  Nah, lets just kill it.

8. So.. reason 8 that the ACA is terrible is because... the GOP hasn't come up with a better idea.  Really?

Come on. This is why you want to take away my health care? And yeah, I'm using that line because that IS what you are asking to happen by repealing the ACA with no plan.  Do you really think Trump can fix health care better tan Biden?  Trump had 4 years to do something, did nothing. Biden and Obama gave us the ACA.

I still see no reasons why ACA should be repealed.  It's not perfect, it's got flaws, it's a band-aid, but you don't rip off that bandage and bleed out because it itches while you wait for a suregon.
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Jamie

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2020, 04:39:23 PM »
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on November 16, 2020, 04:02:53 PM
Also, dear Jamie. Talking about politics is fun, especially with people you disagree with. I just wish you didn't repeat propaganda as if it's true :(

Hey, that's okay if we disagree.

But is talking about politics really fun? I find it exhausting. It seems that no matter who you talk to -- especially online -- you're wrong, an idiot, and they know exactly how to fix everything. It's kinda funny, in a sick way.
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sokarul

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2020, 04:46:50 PM »
I thought the biggest problem for Obamacare is that not enough healthy people use it. Healthy people are healthy because they have had insurance through work for years and years. This is obviously a mass generalization.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2020, 04:50:42 PM »
Quote from: Jamie on November 16, 2020, 04:39:23 PM
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on November 16, 2020, 04:02:53 PM
Also, dear Jamie. Talking about politics is fun, especially with people you disagree with. I just wish you didn't repeat propaganda as if it's true :(

Hey, that's okay if we disagree.

But is talking about politics really fun? I find it exhausting. It seems that no matter who you talk to -- especially online -- you're wrong, an idiot, and they know exactly how to fix everything. It's kinda funny, in a sick way.

I"m talking about the abortion stuff. The "late term abortion" thing is propaganda, unless you think women should die in childbirth when it could be prevented. Abortions that happen after a fetus would otherwise be viable are done for medical reasons.

After years of talking to dipshits online, I end up scrolling past the ones who only have insults, or disingenuous arguments.  I enjoy arguing with people when the possibility that my mind could be changed exists, and I enjoy arguing with people when the possibility that I could change their mind exists, or if in the process of the argument I learn something.
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Quote from: Thork on November 27, 2012, 12:25:43 PM
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2020, 05:09:33 PM »
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on November 16, 2020, 02:49:09 PM
Most sane gun owners (of which I am one) already have their guns stored in a safe.

Where they are absolutely worthless.




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sokarul

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2020, 05:17:37 PM »
Quote from: Bullwinkle on November 16, 2020, 05:09:33 PM
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on November 16, 2020, 02:49:09 PM
Most sane gun owners (of which I am one) already have their guns stored in a safe.

Where they are absolutely worthless.

Or protected from theft, one of the two.
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Quote from: Shifter on July 05, 2020, 09:53:30 AM
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2020, 05:20:45 PM »
Quote from: sokarul on November 16, 2020, 05:17:37 PM
Quote from: Bullwinkle on November 16, 2020, 05:09:33 PM
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on November 16, 2020, 02:49:09 PM
Most sane gun owners (of which I am one) already have their guns stored in a safe.

Where they are absolutely worthless.

Or protected from theft, one of the two.

Most people who fantasize about owning guns think they're going to shoot someone who invades their home while they are sleeping.
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Quote from: Thork on November 27, 2012, 12:25:43 PM
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2020, 05:44:07 PM »
I have a 12" knife stuck in the ceiling just inside my front door.
I would not hesitate to stuff the blade it into someone's guts.

A gun locked in a safe serves no purpose.
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JJA

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2020, 05:49:21 PM »
Quote from: sokarul on November 16, 2020, 04:46:50 PM
I thought the biggest problem for Obamacare is that not enough healthy people use it. Healthy people are healthy because they have had insurance through work for years and years. This is obviously a mass generalization.

This is why there are two parts.  Insurance companies can not refuse to sell anyone insurance. But to keep people from simply not buying insurance until they get sick then dropping it, the mandate that everyone must buy it was created.

Democrats didn't simply decide they wanted to force people to buy health care. It was required to remove pre-existing conditions.
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sokarul

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2020, 05:51:28 PM »
No I understand that. I’m just saying the people on Obamacare use it while people like me who used health insurance once in ten years aren’t on it.
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Jamie

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2020, 05:53:41 PM »
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on November 16, 2020, 04:50:42 PM
I"m talking about the abortion stuff. The "late term abortion" thing is propaganda, unless you think women should die in childbirth when it could be prevented. Abortions that happen after a fetus would otherwise be viable are done for medical reasons.

After years of talking to dipshits online, I end up scrolling past the ones who only have insults, or disingenuous arguments.  I enjoy arguing with people when the possibility that my mind could be changed exists, and I enjoy arguing with people when the possibility that I could change their mind exists, or if in the process of the argument I learn something.

Fetuses are now viable and surviving at 24 weeks due to advancing medical technology. That's where my stance on late-term abortions arises.

And I appreciate that multiple sides approach the issue in good conscience and draw different conclusions, so I don't think public funding should go towards abortion.

However, I'm for access to abortion. I feel that, humanistically and materialistically (i.e. I'm non-religious), the concept of an unborn person is very real. But I recognize that banning abortions doesn't actually prevent them from happening and that deincentivizing abortions does: accessible, affordable contraceptives; extended paid maternity-leave; and thorough sex-ed are all steps in the right direction towards reducing abortions.

I also recognize that, since I'm a man, I obviously can't get pregnant and I'll never know what it's like to be pregnant and carry a child and deliver a child. Hell, since I'm a gay guy who doesn't want kids, I'll never even know what it's like to raise a child. Abortion is an issue that I'm allowed to have an opinion on like any other issue, but in this instance, my opinion is where my involvement ends. It isn't up to me.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 05:55:23 PM by Jamie »
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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2020, 05:55:22 PM »
Quote from: sokarul on November 16, 2020, 04:46:50 PM
I thought the biggest problem for Obamacare is that not enough healthy people use it. Healthy people are healthy because they have had insurance through work for years and years. This is obviously a mass generalization.

I would argue that healthy people are healthy usually because they're young.

Good health is, without exception, always temporary.
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sokarul

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2020, 06:03:37 PM »
Quote from: Crouton on November 16, 2020, 05:55:22 PM
Quote from: sokarul on November 16, 2020, 04:46:50 PM
I thought the biggest problem for Obamacare is that not enough healthy people use it. Healthy people are healthy because they have had insurance through work for years and years. This is obviously a mass generalization.

I would argue that healthy people are healthy usually because they're young.

Good health is, without exception, always temporary.
That is true. Like I said I was generalizing. As such though you can’t deny that people refuse medical treatment because they can’t afford it.

What I said I didn’t make up but read it awhile ago. I did not fact check it.
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Stash

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2020, 06:07:00 PM »
One thing people don't talk about much with the ACA is that not only did it dispense with the pre-existing nightmare, but it got rid of the "lifetime cap" evil insurance companies used to be able to employ. Prior to ACA many, many policies had a lifetime cap of say a $500k or $1mil and so on. I can tell you from experience that I blew through what would have been my cap one year in about 6 months and prior to ACA would have been responsible for the difference. We're talking 100's of thousands of dollars.

As for Trump's healthcare EO's he signed from this year that Jaimie brought up there were 2. One was to guarantee that pre-existing conditions would still be safeguarded, something we already had with the ACA. And the other was something about cost transparency and no "surprise" billing. I don't know what that one was all about. But both of which were questionable in terms of being legit because they were EO's not congressional mandates. So kinda moot. So in essence Trump did nothing for healthcare and has been brought up before, the GOP had all three branches of government for 2 solid years and they still couldn't figure out how to repeal and replace. John McCain became my hero that day we went all thumbs down. The GOP has been trying to get rid of the ACA for 10 years! They need to get their shit together.

I'm all for overhauling the ACA, but doing so that all of the good parts from the ACA are preserved and fortified and so that everyone can get affordable awesome healthcare. And I'm willing to be taxed accordingly if we can achieve that goal.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #58 on: November 16, 2020, 06:07:12 PM »
Quote from: Jamie on November 16, 2020, 05:53:41 PM
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on November 16, 2020, 04:50:42 PM
I"m talking about the abortion stuff. The "late term abortion" thing is propaganda, unless you think women should die in childbirth when it could be prevented. Abortions that happen after a fetus would otherwise be viable are done for medical reasons.

After years of talking to dipshits online, I end up scrolling past the ones who only have insults, or disingenuous arguments.  I enjoy arguing with people when the possibility that my mind could be changed exists, and I enjoy arguing with people when the possibility that I could change their mind exists, or if in the process of the argument I learn something.

Fetuses are now viable and surviving at 24 weeks due to advancing medical technology. That's where my stance on late-term abortions arises.

And I appreciate that multiple sides approach the issue in good conscience and draw different conclusions, so I don't think public funding should go towards abortion.

However, I'm for access to abortion. I feel that, humanistically and materialistically (i.e. I'm non-religious), the concept of an unborn person is very real. But I recognize that banning abortions doesn't actually prevent them from happening and that deincentivizing abortions does: accessible, affordable contraceptives; extended paid maternity-leave; and thorough sex-ed are all steps in the right direction towards reducing abortions.

I also recognize that, since I'm a man, I obviously can't get pregnant and I'll never know what it's like to be pregnant and carry a child and deliver a child. Hell, since I'm a gay guy who doesn't want kids, I'll never even know what it's like to raise a child. Abortion is an issue that I'm allowed to have an opinion on like any other issue, but in this instance, my opinion is where my involvement ends. It isn't up to me.

Just to be clear, you would deny a woman a medically necessary abortion after 24 weeks, even if she would die?  Because this is what I'm talking about. I don't think people should have elective abortions that late in pregnancy.

I agree with your thoughts on reducing abortions. It has been shown already that if women have access to affordable contraceptives (and other female related healthcare) the rate of abortion goes down.

Also, I don't care if you're a man or woman. I'm not one of those people! lol
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I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.
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Jamie

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Re: Why do you support Joe Biden
« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2020, 06:13:29 PM »
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on November 16, 2020, 06:07:12 PM
Just to be clear, you would deny a woman a medically necessary abortion after 24 weeks, even if she would die?  Because this is what I'm talking about. I don't think people should have elective abortions that late in pregnancy.

Of course not. If a woman needs to get an abortion for some urgent, medically necessary reason -- even late in a pregnancy -- then she should have access to one.
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"Conspiracy theorists actually believe in the conspiracy because that is more comforting." - Alan Moore
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