How long did umbra travel from coast to coast in America's solar eclipse 2017?

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the 38th parallel from the east to west coast of the USA.

It's an average latitude between Oregon (42°) and South Carolina (32°).

42 - 32 = 10

The mean (what most people consider "the average") of 32° and 42° is 37°, not 38°.

More importantly, your analysis ignores the 10° change in latitude in addition to the change in longitude after adjustment for latitude.

That can give a very rough first-order approximation of the distance. While those can often be useful, it's important not to draw detailed conclusions from such rough calculations.

Anything on this yet?
Oblate spheroid? It's even worse, under 3,684 km.
How much "worse"?
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Danang

  • 4271
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Everybody, please provide the final calculation result of the umbral distance from coast to coast.

Be straight.
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Stash

  • 7337
Everybody, please provide the final calculation result of the umbral distance from coast to coast.

Be straight.

https://www.space.com/35495-where-to-see-2017-total-solar-eclipse.html

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Danang

  • 4271
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Let's go basic.

"Let us say, for example, that the moon's shadow is moving west to east along the equator at an average speed of 2,288 mph (3,683 km/h). But Earth's rotational speed at the equator makes the ground speed of the shadow 1,251 mph (2,013 km/h)"

https://www.space.com/36388-total-solar-eclipse-2017-duration.html

This means:
1. Geocentism.
2. Moon goes west and its shadow is faster than earth rotation. (Which version actually do you hold?).

And not less important
3. The umbral speed on equator equals 2,013 kph which means the equator circumference equals 2,013 kph × 24 h = 48,312 km.
🔺️1° long equals 48,312 km : 360 = 134.2 km

The said umbral travel distance from coast to coast = 48° × 134.2 km × cos37 = 5,076 km.

Which one is true, 5,076 km or 4017 km?
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Danang

  • 4271
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Everybody, please provide the final calculation result of the umbral distance from coast to coast.

Be straight.

https://www.space.com/35495-where-to-see-2017-total-solar-eclipse.html

Why not place your calculation in here?
• (Curved Grided) South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
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Danang

  • 4271
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I understand if any of you don't wanna put the complete, yet simple calculation.

There are versions in theories as well as data.

That's okay
• (Curved Grided) South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
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Danang

  • 4271
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
What amazes me is, if there is a version stating (even though not explicitely)  "the earth rotates westwards", that means "THE SUN RISES FROM THE WEST".
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JJA

  • 4213
  • Math is math!
What amazes me is, if there is a version stating (even though not explicitely)  "the earth rotates westwards", that means "THE SUN RISES FROM THE WEST".

The Earth rotates toward the east. Where EXACTLY did you read otherwise?

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Danang

  • 4271
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
What amazes me is, if there is a version stating (even though not explicitely)  "the earth rotates westwards", that means "THE SUN RISES FROM THE WEST".

The Earth rotates toward the east. Where EXACTLY did you read otherwise?

"Rotate westwards" is by just perspective.

Again:

"Let us say, for example, that the moon's shadow is moving west to east along the equator at an average speed of 2,288 mph (3,683 km/h). But Earth's rotational speed at the equator makes the ground speed of the shadow 1,251 mph (2,013 km/h)"

If the moon's shadow is in line with the moon itself, and it goes east. Eventually the moon will appear on the west. Because the moon shadow speed goes faster than earth rotating speed.
If the earth was assumed rotating, it looked rotating westwards.

Seems confusing...
The issue is, for normal situation, Solar System gives the moon rotating westwards, while it comes to solar eclipse, the moon becomes going eastwards at the expense "the moon will in turn show up on the west".

Moon's shadow at solar eclipse goes east, is okay. But the moon rises on the west (as the consequence of this model) never happened.
• (Curved Grided) South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

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*

faded mike

  • 1964
  • new world tattoo drill scar+++++++I'm thinkin flat
Heres the vid I mentioned on the first page

" Using our vast surveillance system, we've uncovered revolutionary new information..."
           -them

I am not a druggy

*

JJA

  • 4213
  • Math is math!
What amazes me is, if there is a version stating (even though not explicitely)  "the earth rotates westwards", that means "THE SUN RISES FROM THE WEST".

The Earth rotates toward the east. Where EXACTLY did you read otherwise?

"Rotate westwards" is by just perspective.

Again:

"Let us say, for example, that the moon's shadow is moving west to east along the equator at an average speed of 2,288 mph (3,683 km/h). But Earth's rotational speed at the equator makes the ground speed of the shadow 1,251 mph (2,013 km/h)"

If the moon's shadow is in line with the moon itself, and it goes east. Eventually the moon will appear on the west. Because the moon shadow speed goes faster than earth rotating speed.
If the earth was assumed rotating, it looked rotating westwards.

Seems confusing...
The issue is, for normal situation, Solar System gives the moon rotating westwards, while it comes to solar eclipse, the moon becomes going eastwards at the expense "the moon will in turn show up on the west".

Moon's shadow at solar eclipse goes east, is okay. But the moon rises on the west (as the consequence of this model) never happened.

None of what you said has anything to do with your quote "the earth rotates westwards" which is still wrong.

You really need to stare at a model of the Earth, Moon and Sun until you understand how it all works.  And understand how shadows work.
 If you don't understand any of it, how can you hope to come to any conclusions if it's right or wrong?

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Danang

  • 4271
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Heres the vid I mentioned on the first page



Wow thanx Mike, that's epic!
They are really good at presenting it with effective sentences which is hard for me to do. 👍
• (Curved Grided) South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

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*

Danang

  • 4271
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
What amazes me is, if there is a version stating (even though not explicitely)  "the earth rotates westwards", that means "THE SUN RISES FROM THE WEST".

The Earth rotates toward the east. Where EXACTLY did you read otherwise?

"Rotate westwards" is by just perspective.

Again:

"Let us say, for example, that the moon's shadow is moving west to east along the equator at an average speed of 2,288 mph (3,683 km/h). But Earth's rotational speed at the equator makes the ground speed of the shadow 1,251 mph (2,013 km/h)"

If the moon's shadow is in line with the moon itself, and it goes east. Eventually the moon will appear on the west. Because the moon shadow speed goes faster than earth rotating speed.
If the earth was assumed rotating, it looked rotating westwards.

Seems confusing...
The issue is, for normal situation, Solar System gives the moon rotating westwards, while it comes to solar eclipse, the moon becomes going eastwards at the expense "the moon will in turn show up on the west".

Moon's shadow at solar eclipse goes east, is okay. But the moon rises on the west (as the consequence of this model) never happened.

None of what you said has anything to do with your quote "the earth rotates westwards" which is still wrong.

You really need to stare at a model of the Earth, Moon and Sun until you understand how it all works.  And understand how shadows work.
 If you don't understand any of it, how can you hope to come to any conclusions if it's right or wrong?

Freel free to show me the correct, unchangable description.
• (Curved Grided) South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

*

Stash

  • 7337
What amazes me is, if there is a version stating (even though not explicitely)  "the earth rotates westwards", that means "THE SUN RISES FROM THE WEST".

The Earth rotates toward the east. Where EXACTLY did you read otherwise?

"Rotate westwards" is by just perspective.

Again:

"Let us say, for example, that the moon's shadow is moving west to east along the equator at an average speed of 2,288 mph (3,683 km/h). But Earth's rotational speed at the equator makes the ground speed of the shadow 1,251 mph (2,013 km/h)"

If the moon's shadow is in line with the moon itself, and it goes east. Eventually the moon will appear on the west. Because the moon shadow speed goes faster than earth rotating speed.
If the earth was assumed rotating, it looked rotating westwards.

Seems confusing...
The issue is, for normal situation, Solar System gives the moon rotating westwards, while it comes to solar eclipse, the moon becomes going eastwards at the expense "the moon will in turn show up on the west".

Moon's shadow at solar eclipse goes east, is okay. But the moon rises on the west (as the consequence of this model) never happened.

None of what you said has anything to do with your quote "the earth rotates westwards" which is still wrong.

You really need to stare at a model of the Earth, Moon and Sun until you understand how it all works.  And understand how shadows work.
 If you don't understand any of it, how can you hope to come to any conclusions if it's right or wrong?

Freel free to show me the correct, unchangable description.

Try using the Google. You can search just as well as anyone. There's plenty of information out there for you to look at.

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faded mike

  • 1964
  • new world tattoo drill scar+++++++I'm thinkin flat
Your welcome Danang!
" Using our vast surveillance system, we've uncovered revolutionary new information..."
           -them

I am not a druggy

This means:
1. Geocentism.
2. Moon goes west and its shadow is faster than earth rotation. (Which version actually do you hold?).
Are they meant to be 2 options, or 2 conclusions which you claim are both true?
If the latter, no it doesn't. It in no way indicates Earth is the centre of the universe or stationary.

But both are false.
The moon orbits Earth with its orbit taking it towards the east.
Earth rotates as well, at a much faster (angular) rate than the moon orbits.
This make the moon appear to circle Earth towards the west just like the stars, but slightly slower than them.

But this orbit of the moon means the shadow of the moon moves to the east as it crosses Earth.
This is because the shadow is based upon a line connecting the sun and moon, not the Earth and moon.

And not less important
3. The umbral speed on equator equals 2,013 kph which means the equator circumference equals 2,013 kph × 24 h = 48,312 km.
🔺️1° long equals 48,312 km : 360 = 134.2 km
And still just as wrong.
The average speed of the umbra on Earth does not determine the circumference of Earth.
That would only work if the umbra travelled all along the surface of Earth at the equator over those 24 hours and maintained that speed.
And any calculation based upon that is just as wrong.

if there is a version stating (even though not explicitely)  "the earth rotates westwards"
Good thing there is none, at least not by any mainstream scientist.

Seems confusing...
The issue is, for normal situation, Solar System gives the moon rotating westwards, while it comes to solar eclipse, the moon becomes going eastwards at the expense "the moon will in turn show up on the west".
Not if you think about it honestly.
The moon doesn't go east (unless you are talking about its orbit around Earth, viewed from someone not rotating with Earth).
Even during a solar eclipse the moon appears to go to the west. It is its shadow which goes to the east.

This has been explained so many times. Why do you keep playing dumb?

Heres the vid I mentioned on the first page

That isn't a video by NASA.
That is a video by a FEer that wants to reject the globe, who rejects physics, like at the start where they just edit the footage to make it look like Neil got smacked in the face by pure magic.

It isn't surprising that such a person would dishonestly present the RE model rather than accurately doing so.

They start with the common garbage of pretending rotational motion is the same as linear motion.
It isn't.

Earth ROTATES at roughly 28 times the speed the moon ROTATES.
But the linear speed is quite a different story.
A point on Earth's equator travels at roughly 444 m/s.
But the moon travels at roughly 1000 m/s.
That means the moon is travelling over twice as fast as the ground, and that is at the equator.
This means the moon's shadow would also be travelling faster than Earth's surface and as that is on Earth's surface rather than out in space it means it will travel from west to east.

As you get further away from the equator the linear speed of a point on Earth's surface drops as the distance to the Earth's axis drops. At the poles it is travelling at 0 m/s.

Then they present a video allegedly from NASA without any audio from it to judge it and without any link to the original source.
So it seems that is just more dishonest mockery from them, especially when there are plenty resources from NASA to explain it just fine.

Then they appear to present what you were talking about, a video from time and date (not NASA) which is centred on the eclipse, and thus is not actually showing the rotation of Earth.

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JJA

  • 4213
  • Math is math!
What amazes me is, if there is a version stating (even though not explicitely)  "the earth rotates westwards", that means "THE SUN RISES FROM THE WEST".

The Earth rotates toward the east. Where EXACTLY did you read otherwise?

"Rotate westwards" is by just perspective.

Again:

"Let us say, for example, that the moon's shadow is moving west to east along the equator at an average speed of 2,288 mph (3,683 km/h). But Earth's rotational speed at the equator makes the ground speed of the shadow 1,251 mph (2,013 km/h)"

If the moon's shadow is in line with the moon itself, and it goes east. Eventually the moon will appear on the west. Because the moon shadow speed goes faster than earth rotating speed.
If the earth was assumed rotating, it looked rotating westwards.

Seems confusing...
The issue is, for normal situation, Solar System gives the moon rotating westwards, while it comes to solar eclipse, the moon becomes going eastwards at the expense "the moon will in turn show up on the west".

Moon's shadow at solar eclipse goes east, is okay. But the moon rises on the west (as the consequence of this model) never happened.

None of what you said has anything to do with your quote "the earth rotates westwards" which is still wrong.

You really need to stare at a model of the Earth, Moon and Sun until you understand how it all works.  And understand how shadows work.
 If you don't understand any of it, how can you hope to come to any conclusions if it's right or wrong?

Freel free to show me the correct, unchangable description.

You have been shown many explanations and had things explained in great detail which you simply reject entirely.  I'm not wasting any more of my time trying to explain until you actually show you want to, and are capable of learning.

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Danang

  • 4271
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Unfortunately I never found a clear explanation with proper logic.
You must present either the earth rotating westwards or the moon goes westwards.

And both are contradictory to solar system.

By the way I've got a better explanation than the previous one:

RAHU GOES SOUTHWARDS INTERSECTING THE SUN'S PATH



This model answers "why the umbra's latitudes change, or go southwards (besides eastwards)
• (Curved Grided) South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
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Unfortunately I never found a clear explanation with proper logic.
You mean you dismiss it/ignore it repeatedly.

Just what do you think is wrong with the explanation I have provided several times?

You must present either the earth rotating westwards or the moon goes westwards.
Why?
Neither match what is observed.
Earth rotates to the east which makes celestial objects appear to move to the west.
The Moon orbits the Earth towards the east. This means it will appear to drift to the east relative to the other celestial objects.
But because the Earth rotates at a faster angular velocity than the moon orbits, the moon still appears to move to the west relative to an observer on Earth.

But because the linear speed of the moon is faster than linear speed of the surface of Earth, the shadow of the moon moves faster than the surface of Earth and thus it moves to the west.

There is no contradiction between what is observed and the solar system.

By the way I've got a better explanation than the previous one:
RAHU
No one ever observes Rahu, likely because it is imaginary.
You need to use the moon.

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Danang

  • 4271
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
Where's the gif pic?

Or let me help you out to present the "right" solar system on such a solar eclipse, with just common jpg pics.:

Let’s go straight to the description.

In Texas (or places with the same longitudes), at midday ~ 12:00 AM, on 2017, August, 21st ~ the earth, moon and sun are lining up.




And then the Moon goes eastwards FASTER than the Earth’s eastwards rotation speed. The Moon WILL separate from the Sun (at most 180°) till the next day at midday, the sun and the moon will “reunite again”.

This is the flaw of Solar System. The reality ain’t that way.

In reality, the sun and the moon always go together all day long till tomorrow with difference of around 11° per 24 hours.

Let’s go to the sunrise time, 6:00 AM at the next day ~ on 2017, August, 22nd ~ the moon will stay at azimuth around 8°.



This is not the true reality in sunrise time

Again, the sun and the moon are supposed to relatively go together all day long, not separated as shown in such a Solar System model.



• (Curved Grided) South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

Or let me help you out to present the "right" solar system on such a solar eclipse, with just common jpg pics.:
Let’s go straight to the description.
In Texas (or places with the same longitudes), at midday ~ 12:00 AM, on 2017, August, 21st ~ the earth, moon and sun are lining up.
And then the Moon goes eastwards FASTER than the Earth’s eastwards rotation speed. The Moon WILL separate from the Sun (at most 180°) till the next day at midday, the sun and the moon will “reunite again”.
This is the flaw of Solar System. The reality ain’t that way.
No, that is a flaw with your strawman.
That isn't what is observed in reality at all.

Instead, for HC reference frame, the sun remains stationary, while Earth orbits it, spinning on its axis so the sun appears to move to the west and after ~24 hours the sun will appear to be in roughly the same position in the sky.
The Moon orbits Earth to the east, at a slower angular speed than Earth rotates and thus it appears to move to the west, but slower than the sun.
After ~24 hours, even though the sun is back to the same location, the moon is not. Instead the moon has fallen behind quite considerably.
After 2 weeks, the moon is now in the complete opposite part of the sky, so instead of being a new moon (or solar eclipse), it is a full moon (or lunar eclipse). Then after another 2 weeks, it has fallen behind so much that it is now back in line with the sun.
This is because its orbit takes roughly 28 days (and varies depending on what frame you measure it in), and thus each day it would drift by roughly 360 degrees/28 = 13 degrees. Over the course of 1 hour, it will drift roughly 0.5 degrees.

And do you know what else that nicely matches up with?
The sun has an angular size of ~0.5 degrees, and so does the moon.
That means if (for a single location) you consider starting with the moon just before the sun, it will need to move 1 degree to get to the other side of the sun, which will take roughly 2 hours. And that is roughly how long the eclipse lasts for in a particular location.

(it is far from perfect with the rough rounding).

So the actual solar system model matches reality quite well.

Perhaps you should stop making assumptions with strawmen and deal with the real model.

In reality, the sun and the moon always go together all day long till tomorrow with difference of around 11° per 24 hours.
So are you saying that the sun and moon magically stay together and then magically after 24 hours the moon jumps 11 degrees?
Or are you just directly contradicting yourself in a single sentence, first saying they stay together but then saying they drift apart?

Again, the sun and the moon are supposed to relatively go together all day long, not separated as shown in such a Solar System model.
You can "suppose" that they magically stay together all you want. In reality, the moon and sun drift relative to each other.

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Danang

  • 4271
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
"no gif pic is hoax"  8)
• (Curved Grided) South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
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sokarul

  • 18494
  • Discount Chemist
Where's the gif pic?

Or let me help you out to present the "right" solar system on such a solar eclipse, with just common jpg pics.:

Let’s go straight to the description.

In Texas (or places with the same longitudes), at midday ~ 12:00 AM, on 2017, August, 21st ~ the earth, moon and sun are lining up.




And then the Moon goes eastwards FASTER than the Earth’s eastwards rotation speed. The Moon WILL separate from the Sun (at most 180°) till the next day at midday, the sun and the moon will “reunite again”.

This is the flaw of Solar System. The reality ain’t that way.

In reality, the sun and the moon always go together all day long till tomorrow with difference of around 11° per 24 hours.

Let’s go to the sunrise time, 6:00 AM at the next day ~ on 2017, August, 22nd ~ the moon will stay at azimuth around 8°.



This is not the true reality in sunrise time

Again, the sun and the moon are supposed to relatively go together all day long, not separated as shown in such a Solar System model.

12PM is midday.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

"no gif pic is hoax"  8)
By that I take it you mean you have no refutation to the fact that there is no problem for the RE, HC model?

*

Danang

  • 4271
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
• (Curved Grided) South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
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*

Danang

  • 4271
  • Everything will be "Phew" in its time :')
"no gif pic is hoax"  8)
By that I take it you mean you have no refutation to the fact that there is no problem for the RE, HC model?

Words can give gullible, contradictory explanation.

So where's the best gif pic for HC as I requested? Can you show me just one?
• (Curved Grided) South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

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*

Stash

  • 7337
"no gif pic is hoax"  8)
By that I take it you mean you have no refutation to the fact that there is no problem for the RE, HC model?

Words can give gullible, contradictory explanation.

So where's the best gif pic for HC as I requested? Can you show me just one?
'
Use the google and find one to your liking.

Words can give gullible, contradictory explanation.
And if it was contradictory, you would be able to point out the contradiction.
So why don't you try doing that rather than repeatedly dismissing it?

So where's the best gif pic for HC as I requested? Can you show me just one?
There is no one best gif, as it will heavily depend upon what you want to see.
A big problem with a too scale gif, is the scale involved.
Earth has a radius of 6371 km. The distance to the moon is ~400 000 km.
That means that the radius of Earth is ~0.016 times the size of the moon's orbit.
That means that if you want to fit the moon's orbit as a circle on a 1080p screen, you would have Earth as ~17 pixels.
To give you an idea of what that looks like, it looks like this:


Most people want Earth to be a much larger size so they can see it.
But then you run into the problem of how you scale it so you can see the moon and Earth easily in the one shot.
You need to bring the moon in closer, but then do you keep the linear speed constant, or the angular speed constant?
If you keep the angular speed constant, but bring it in to 40 000 km, the linear speed will be reduced by a factor of 10. This means that with this, not to scale model, the moon will be travelling slower than Earth and thus the shadow will move to the west. If instead you keep the linear speed constant, then the angular speed is multiplied by 10, and thus the moon would orbit Earth in a mere ~3 days and people will claim it is much too fast.

That is why math can work a lot better to tell the story than just proving a crappy image.

Also, I provided you a link to a web app you can use to view it:
https://eyes.jpl.nasa.gov/eyes-on-eclipse-web-app.html
You can set it to a few different views, including the Earth-Moon system. That way you can see it all (apparently) to scale, and see how the moon moves, and how even though Earth rotates, the speed of the moon means the shadow goes to the east.