# Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim

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#### Danang

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##### Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« on: September 26, 2020, 09:11:17 PM »
No need for airplane's wings to be shaped like usual airplane's wings.

Flat wings are also okay. Even that was the case for earliest airplanes ~ at the beginning of 20st century.

Why the buck did Bernoulli's Principle showed up afterwards??

PS.
I use "the buck" because I avoid the "F word"

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#### JJA

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2020, 06:44:29 AM »
No need for airplane's wings to be shaped like usual airplane's wings.

Flat wings are also okay. Even that was the case for earliest airplanes ~ at the beginning of 20st century.

Why the buck did Bernoulli's Principle showed up afterwards??

PS.
I use "the buck" because I avoid the "F word"

I can build a car with square wheels and it will still work. No need for round wheels! Round wheels are a lie!

See how silly that sounds?

You age getting confused here. It's possible to use new discoveries to improve existing things. It's not a difficult concept.

#### Pezevenk

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2020, 07:08:23 AM »
You're kinda right in that the usual explanation about the wing's shape and whatnot is a bit flawed. It can indeed work with perfectly flat wings, the reason modern wings have airfoils is more complex. But this has nothing to do with the validity of Bernoulli's principle.
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#### Pezevenk

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2020, 03:42:16 AM »
Like, it's not hard to verify Bernoulli's principle on your own...
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#### markjo

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2020, 08:02:50 AM »
No need for airplane's wings to be shaped like usual airplane's wings.

Flat wings are also okay. Even that was the case for earliest airplanes ~ at the beginning of 20st century.

Why the buck did Bernoulli's Principle showed up afterwards??
Because Bernoulli's Principle allows you to make better and more efficient wings.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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#### Danang

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2020, 11:55:08 AM »
No need for airplane's wings to be shaped like usual airplane's wings.

Flat wings are also okay. Even that was the case for earliest airplanes ~ at the beginning of 20st century.

Why the buck did Bernoulli's Principle showed up afterwards??
Because Bernoulli's Principle allows you to make better and more efficient wings.

I see there isn't much different whether the wings is with airfoil or flat.
The source of force for a lift comes from below.
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#### markjo

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2020, 03:02:30 PM »
No need for airplane's wings to be shaped like usual airplane's wings.

Flat wings are also okay. Even that was the case for earliest airplanes ~ at the beginning of 20st century.

Why the buck did Bernoulli's Principle showed up afterwards??
Because Bernoulli's Principle allows you to make better and more efficient wings.

I see there isn't much different whether the wings is with airfoil or flat.
The source of force for a lift comes from below.
Wouldn't it be more efficient if there was a source of lift above too?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

#### Danang

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2020, 12:55:16 PM »
Like, it's not hard to verify Bernoulli's principle on your own...

Comparing the modern plane's wings, with plane's wings at earliest aeronautics history is certainly easy for everyone.

Thanks to internet era that makes anyone as if had a huge library. Before internet era, nearly all students probably didn't know about flat wings on planes at earliest era of aeronautics.
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#### Danang

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2020, 01:01:30 PM »
No need for airplane's wings to be shaped like usual airplane's wings.

Flat wings are also okay. Even that was the case for earliest airplanes ~ at the beginning of 20st century.

Why the buck did Bernoulli's Principle showed up afterwards??

PS.
I use "the buck" because I avoid the "F word"

I can build a car with square wheels and it will still work. No need for round wheels! Round wheels are a lie!

See how silly that sounds?

You age getting confused here. It's possible to use new discoveries to improve existing things. It's not a difficult concept.

It's not difficult to ..... debunk Bernoulli's principle.
No real dicovery is based on something that doesn't exist.
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#### Danang

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2020, 01:15:32 PM »
No need for airplane's wings to be shaped like usual airplane's wings.

Flat wings are also okay. Even that was the case for earliest airplanes ~ at the beginning of 20st century.

Why the buck did Bernoulli's Principle showed up afterwards??
Because Bernoulli's Principle allows you to make better and more efficient wings.

I see there isn't much different whether the wings is with airfoil or flat.
The source of force for a lift comes from below.
Wouldn't it be more efficient if there was a source of lift above too?

I wish. But the experiment footage indicates that there is no lift factor coming from above.
The blowing position is higher than the paper. It presses the paper downwards, but the result is, the paper goes up.

The space is under one ATM, a closed system. The dome existence has another strong evidence, i.e. lift mechanism as explained at the experiment footage.
If there was no closed system above us, the plane wouldn't get lift feed back from below.
From below? Another factor must exist 👉 DUD, without which action-reaction mechanism in propleler's blowing would be horizontal only.
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#### Pezevenk

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2020, 02:13:58 PM »
Like, it's not hard to verify Bernoulli's principle on your own...

Comparing the modern plane's wings, with plane's wings at earliest aeronautics history is certainly easy for everyone.

Thanks to internet era that makes anyone as if had a huge library. Before internet era, nearly all students probably didn't know about flat wings on planes at earliest era of aeronautics.

But I already told you that old plane wings don't contradict Bernoulli's principle... It's simply that the usual explanation of how lift works is not very adequate. Again, it's not that older plane wings contradicted Bernoulli. The way these wings worked was that when the wings were slightly tilted upwards, an area of lower pressure was created right above the top of the wing, while the bottom of the wing pushed slightly downwards on the air incident on them. This is similar to the way modern airplanes work (their wings are always installed at an angle to create the effect I described), and the airfoil shape is such that it both maximizes that effect as well as minimizing drag and stress on the wings. Bernoulli's principle does have something to do with all this, but the way it comes into play is more complex. The bottom line is, air does flow faster at the top of the wing, but it isn't just because of the shape of the airfoil, but more because of the slight tilt of the wing.

So the way it works is not according to the naive Bernoulli's principle explanation which only mentions the shape of the airfoil that is sometimes offered, and you are right that the lift is not created by the shape of the wing, and that the same can happen with different shapes of wings. I mean, fighter jets can often fly upside down, which according to the naive explanation wouldn't be possible. But the fact that Bernoulli's principle shouldn't be applied in that naive way to explain the phenomenon without further elaboration doesn't mean that it is wrong. Bernoulli's principle simply states that when you have an increase in the speed of the flow of a fluid, you have a decrease in the static pressure of that fluid. There is the simple Bernoulli equation that we learn at school which only applies to incompressible fluids like liquids, and there is also a more general one that also applies to gasses in some cases, but its action isn't as simple as that.
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#### Pezevenk

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2020, 02:16:03 PM »
I found a wiki article which presents the simplified explanations as well as the reasons they have limitations, as well as the more involved ones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift_(force)
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#### Pezevenk

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2020, 02:21:19 PM »
No need for airplane's wings to be shaped like usual airplane's wings.

Flat wings are also okay. Even that was the case for earliest airplanes ~ at the beginning of 20st century.

Why the buck did Bernoulli's Principle showed up afterwards??
Because Bernoulli's Principle allows you to make better and more efficient wings.
Actually both flat and modern wings generate lift thanks to Bernoulli's principle (as well as some other things), but it's not the shape of the wings that is most important here, but rather the slight upwards tilt.
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)

#### markjo

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2020, 03:40:58 PM »
No need for airplane's wings to be shaped like usual airplane's wings.

Flat wings are also okay. Even that was the case for earliest airplanes ~ at the beginning of 20st century.

Why the buck did Bernoulli's Principle showed up afterwards??
Because Bernoulli's Principle allows you to make better and more efficient wings.
Actually both flat and modern wings generate lift thanks to Bernoulli's principle (as well as some other things), but it's not the shape of the wings that is most important here, but rather the slight upwards tilt.
Flat wings rely more on forward thrust to generate lift than aerodynamics.  With enough thrust, you can make a brick generate lift but that doesn't sound terribly efficient to me.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

#### NotSoSkeptical

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2020, 05:58:10 PM »
No need for airplane's wings to be shaped like usual airplane's wings.

Flat wings are also okay. Even that was the case for earliest airplanes ~ at the beginning of 20st century.

Why the buck did Bernoulli's Principle showed up afterwards??
Because Bernoulli's Principle allows you to make better and more efficient wings.
Actually both flat and modern wings generate lift thanks to Bernoulli's principle (as well as some other things), but it's not the shape of the wings that is most important here, but rather the slight upwards tilt.
Flat wings rely more on forward thrust to generate lift than aerodynamics.  With enough thrust, you can make a brick generate lift but that doesn't sound terribly efficient to me.

With enough thrust you can get a washing machine to fly......

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#### markjo

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2020, 07:33:22 PM »
No need for airplane's wings to be shaped like usual airplane's wings.

Flat wings are also okay. Even that was the case for earliest airplanes ~ at the beginning of 20st century.

Why the buck did Bernoulli's Principle showed up afterwards??
Because Bernoulli's Principle allows you to make better and more efficient wings.
Actually both flat and modern wings generate lift thanks to Bernoulli's principle (as well as some other things), but it's not the shape of the wings that is most important here, but rather the slight upwards tilt.
Flat wings rely more on forward thrust to generate lift than aerodynamics.  With enough thrust, you can make a brick generate lift but that doesn't sound terribly efficient to me.

With enough thrust you can get a washing machine to fly......

Or an out house...
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

#### Pezevenk

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2020, 12:56:12 AM »
No need for airplane's wings to be shaped like usual airplane's wings.

Flat wings are also okay. Even that was the case for earliest airplanes ~ at the beginning of 20st century.

Why the buck did Bernoulli's Principle showed up afterwards??
Because Bernoulli's Principle allows you to make better and more efficient wings.
Actually both flat and modern wings generate lift thanks to Bernoulli's principle (as well as some other things), but it's not the shape of the wings that is most important here, but rather the slight upwards tilt.
Flat wings rely more on forward thrust to generate lift than aerodynamics.  With enough thrust, you can make a brick generate lift but that doesn't sound terribly efficient to me.
No they don't. They do pretty much the same thing as modern wings when they are tilted slightly upwards. They create a lower pressure area above the wing. They can still glide without thrust. They're not as efficient as modern wings of course but they both also rely on Bernoulli (it's one component of the force, not all of it).
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 12:58:23 AM by Pezevenk »
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#### sceptimatic

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2020, 11:39:06 PM »
A plane acts like a skimming stone over water.
Anything flying horizontally, must angle wings against that, whether the whole wing is slightly angled or the leading edge of a straight wing curves over and down to an angle  to the rear of the wing.

A plane is just an air speed boat. You're just skimming along.

#### sandokhan

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2020, 01:00:00 AM »
Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical and insignificant, if not utterly impossible.
— Simon Newcomb, 1902

It turns out that Simon Newcomb was correct in his assertions:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2230939#msg2230939

#### sokarul

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2020, 01:34:20 AM »
No, airplanes exist.
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#### sandokhan

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2020, 01:58:13 AM »
Sure, but they use the Schauberger-DePalma effect to fly.

#### sokarul

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2020, 02:04:38 AM »
No. I’ll ask again because last time you ran away. Why do planes need to reach takeoff speed?
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#### sandokhan

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2020, 02:22:16 AM »
In order for the Schauberger effect to be activated, that's why.

If you want a flying device to take off vertically, you need the Biefeld-Brown effect.

#### sokarul

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2020, 02:41:02 AM »
The effect needs the plane to be moving at the same speed wings would start to work? How convenient. And adding flaps to add more lift is fake?

Where are your 30 Nobel Prizes for this great discovery?
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#### sokarul

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2020, 02:45:07 AM »
And gliders that dont even have engines still use this effect?
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#### sandokhan

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2020, 02:53:05 AM »
Absolutely and positively modern science cannot explain how airplanes (jet aircrafts) fly:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2230939#msg2230939

Remember, Simon Newcomb was the best mathematician/physicist in North America at the turn of the last century, and his calculations were very precise: "Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical and insignificant, if not utterly impossible".

Now, modern physics agrees with him: no one can explain how airplanes fly.

#### sokarul

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2020, 03:05:34 AM »
And gliders that dont even have engines still use this effect?
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#### sokarul

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2020, 03:08:29 AM »
Absolutely and positively modern science cannot explain how airplanes (jet aircrafts) fly:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2230939#msg2230939

Remember, Simon Newcomb was the best mathematician/physicist in North America at the turn of the last century, and his calculations were very precise: "Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical and insignificant, if not utterly impossible".

Now, modern physics agrees with him: no one can explain how airplanes fly.

The pressure above the wing is lower than below the wing.

When the wings lose lift the plane crashes.

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#### sandokhan

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2020, 03:34:11 AM »

#### sokarul

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##### Re: Bernoulli's Principle is only an Empty Claim
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2020, 03:36:37 AM »
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