Orbits. How do they work?

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Shifter

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #60 on: September 24, 2020, 04:49:20 AM »
You guys need to ask yourselves the following before you post anything

Has Heiwa ever demonstrated the capacity to listen?

Has Heiwa ever demonstrated the capacity to understand?

If your answer to any of these is 'no' then why do you bother? Do you think he reads this and learns anything?

Heiwa believes if a planet killing asteroid smashes on top of your house that rather than flatten your house it will bounce off it. OK. Remember this is the logic of the man you are trying to reason with here

Carry on
A Future Is Not Given To You. It Is Something You Must Take For Yourself

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markjo

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #61 on: September 24, 2020, 07:08:26 AM »
Hm, why should I prove that something is impossible? Shouldn't our 'space travel' experts better describe how to do a trip to the Moon, etc?
They say that the proof of the pudding is in the tasting.  How better to prove that trips to the moon are possible than to actually send probes and people to the moon?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #62 on: September 24, 2020, 07:14:14 AM »

Hm, why should I prove that something is impossible?

Because unless youíre prepared to  put some god damn effort in you are no position to state whatís possible and what isnít.

You are making wild accusations about it all being lies based on your feels.  Itís quite pathetic.

Quote
Shouldn't our 'space travel' experts better describe how to do a trip to the Moon, etc?

Thereís absolutely vast amounts of information publicly available that describes how it works in excruciating detail.  Hereís a good place to start looking at how it was done once before:

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/main.html

But just like every other moon landing conspiracy theorist out there, itís clearly too much like hard work to actually read it, let alone find try to find something actually wrong with any of it.


Quote
Present situation is that we see a rocket with spacecraft lift off from Earth. Then we are told the spacecraft is in circular orbit (around Earth) and that the spacecraft increases speed using its rocket engine to go to the Moon in an elliptic orbit, where it arrives a couple of days later. During the trip in orbit the speed is reduced from 11.2 to <1.0 km/s due to Earth gravity pulling it back. If the trip had continued until the speed was 0, the spacecraft would drop back on Earth again.

But no! Close to the Moon the spacecraft using its rocket engine changes speed and direction and starts suddenly to orbit the Moon! How was it possible? No explanation given. And then the spacecraft stops orbiting the moon lands on the Moon! Fantastic! But how? You orbit a Moon, slow down and land on the Moon! But it is not possible.

And then - on the Moon - you lift off again and start orbiting the Moon. And in Moon orbit you fire your rocket engine again, increase speed, change direction, leave moon orbit and drop straight down on Earth - no orbit!

During the return drop down on Earth your speed increases from 1 to 11.2 km/s due to gravity, when you enter the Earth's atmosphere and you release a parachute and drop into an ocean at 0 speed. Fantastic! But how can you do all these things at the right times and locations in the right directions in space? No 'expert' can answer it. They just say it was done. Evidence? None.

It was a great show! All done in Hollywood!

Just more of the same rubbish argument from incredulity.

Prove it was faked, prove it isnít possible or shut up about it.

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Stash

  • 7318
Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #63 on: September 24, 2020, 09:29:41 AM »
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, Iíll give you a million quid if you can prove itís impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications.
Topic is "Orbits. How do they work?"
It seems we all agree that an orbit is a circular or elliptical trajectory around Earth at a certain speed and altitude not to drop down on Earth again. Getting a satellite into orbit from Earth is easy and possible. French company Arianespace does it all the time. You use a rocket that catapults the satellite into the orbit (while the rocket drops back on Earth).
The problem is to get out of such an orbit intact. It is in fact impossible.
Of course there are 'experts' suggesting that you can go from one orbit to another, from e.g. around Earth, then around the Sun and finally start orbiting the Moon (or an assteroid) but such 'experts' do not work at Arianespace. European Space Agency, ESA, are full och such experts. And you can learn about it at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden, at no cost. The professor says he has himself orbited Earth in a spacecraft many times but ... it is just fantasy. http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm

As Unconvinced pointed out, your 'evidence' seems to be that you called some professors in Sweden and they didn't return your phonecalls? What sort of evidence is that? Sounds simply like the rantings and ravings of a lunatic.

You say the calculations are wrong yet you have no calculations. So how would you know they are wrong? Because someone didn't return your vmail?

What are your calculations? Without them you have zero argument and just appear a crackpot.

And btw, aren't you continually breaking Rule 3 here by constantly directing back to your pointless website:

3. Advertisements
Do not create threads/posts, send private messages, or use your profile to advertise products, services, etc.


Especially every time you mention safety at sea, advertising your competition and company and such.


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markjo

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #64 on: September 24, 2020, 12:30:37 PM »
If only someone would write a textbook on the subject.
http://www.nssc.ac.cn/wxzygx/weixin/201607/P020160718380095698873.pdf
Quote
Orbital Mechanics for
Engineering Students

Howard D. Curtis
Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University
Daytona Beach, Florida
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Heiwa

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #65 on: September 24, 2020, 06:12:13 PM »
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, Iíll give you a million quid if you can prove itís impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications.
Topic is "Orbits. How do they work?"
It seems we all agree that an orbit is a circular or elliptical trajectory around Earth at a certain speed and altitude not to drop down on Earth again. Getting a satellite into orbit from Earth is easy and possible. French company Arianespace does it all the time. You use a rocket that catapults the satellite into the orbit (while the rocket drops back on Earth).
The problem is to get out of such an orbit intact. It is in fact impossible.
Of course there are 'experts' suggesting that you can go from one orbit to another, from e.g. around Earth, then around the Sun and finally start orbiting the Moon (or an assteroid) but such 'experts' do not work at Arianespace. European Space Agency, ESA, are full och such experts. And you can learn about it at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden, at no cost. The professor says he has himself orbited Earth in a spacecraft many times but ... it is just fantasy. http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm

As Unconvinced pointed out, your 'evidence' seems to be that you called some professors in Sweden and they didn't return your phonecalls? What sort of evidence is that? Sounds simply like the rantings and ravings of a lunatic.

You say the calculations are wrong yet you have no calculations. So how would you know they are wrong? Because someone didn't return your vmail?

What are your calculations? Without them you have zero argument and just appear a crackpot.


Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers. Same offer has been done to US and Russian universities. No replies.
The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used.
Questions remain - how to change high speed orbits and stop in orbits?

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markjo

  • Content Nazi
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  • 41390
Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #66 on: September 24, 2020, 06:50:49 PM »
Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Heiwa

  • 8976
  • I have been around a long time.
Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #67 on: September 24, 2020, 07:22:49 PM »
Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
What about yourself? But start learning what an orbit is.

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Stash

  • 7318
Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #68 on: September 24, 2020, 08:08:28 PM »
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, Iíll give you a million quid if you can prove itís impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications.
Topic is "Orbits. How do they work?"
It seems we all agree that an orbit is a circular or elliptical trajectory around Earth at a certain speed and altitude not to drop down on Earth again. Getting a satellite into orbit from Earth is easy and possible. French company Arianespace does it all the time. You use a rocket that catapults the satellite into the orbit (while the rocket drops back on Earth).
The problem is to get out of such an orbit intact. It is in fact impossible.
Of course there are 'experts' suggesting that you can go from one orbit to another, from e.g. around Earth, then around the Sun and finally start orbiting the Moon (or an assteroid) but such 'experts' do not work at Arianespace. European Space Agency, ESA, are full och such experts. And you can learn about it at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden, at no cost. The professor says he has himself orbited Earth in a spacecraft many times but ... it is just fantasy. http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm

As Unconvinced pointed out, your 'evidence' seems to be that you called some professors in Sweden and they didn't return your phonecalls? What sort of evidence is that? Sounds simply like the rantings and ravings of a lunatic.

You say the calculations are wrong yet you have no calculations. So how would you know they are wrong? Because someone didn't return your vmail?

What are your calculations? Without them you have zero argument and just appear a crackpot.


Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers. Same offer has been done to US and Russian universities. No replies.
The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used.
Questions remain - how to change high speed orbits and stop in orbits?

Something you don't seem to get:

1) Not getting a response to you vmails is in no way an admission of anything. Sheer lunacy to think so an unreturned vmail means all of a sudden, physics don't work.
2) If they happened to even bother to check you out and look at your website, they would be like, "Whoah, what's this conspiracy nut job all about?" I mean it's pretty apparent you're a wild conspiracy theorist. Why bother?

And as for "The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used." That's just an out and out lie. I spent 5 minutes and found all of the fuel required and specs for the mission. As many others have. I could spend more time and get you the documentation that shows the when and where. Which you have already been given. Why do you lie?

You've been presented all of this info many times. You never provide any calculations as to why it's wrong. You just say experts don't return your calls. You're kind of batshit crazy in this regard. Everyone knows it. That's why no one wants to play in your made up sandbox.

Provide some calculations why it's wrong. It's the only place to legitimately start from. Otherwise, you're just whining about how no one will talk to you and you're just lonely in your conspiratorial thoughts.


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Heiwa

  • 8976
  • I have been around a long time.
Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #69 on: September 24, 2020, 10:58:41 PM »
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, Iíll give you a million quid if you can prove itís impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications.
Topic is "Orbits. How do they work?"
It seems we all agree that an orbit is a circular or elliptical trajectory around Earth at a certain speed and altitude not to drop down on Earth again. Getting a satellite into orbit from Earth is easy and possible. French company Arianespace does it all the time. You use a rocket that catapults the satellite into the orbit (while the rocket drops back on Earth).
The problem is to get out of such an orbit intact. It is in fact impossible.
Of course there are 'experts' suggesting that you can go from one orbit to another, from e.g. around Earth, then around the Sun and finally start orbiting the Moon (or an assteroid) but such 'experts' do not work at Arianespace. European Space Agency, ESA, are full och such experts. And you can learn about it at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden, at no cost. The professor says he has himself orbited Earth in a spacecraft many times but ... it is just fantasy. http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm

As Unconvinced pointed out, your 'evidence' seems to be that you called some professors in Sweden and they didn't return your phonecalls? What sort of evidence is that? Sounds simply like the rantings and ravings of a lunatic.

You say the calculations are wrong yet you have no calculations. So how would you know they are wrong? Because someone didn't return your vmail?

What are your calculations? Without them you have zero argument and just appear a crackpot.


Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers. Same offer has been done to US and Russian universities. No replies.
The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used.
Questions remain - how to change high speed orbits and stop in orbits?

Something you don't seem to get:

1) Not getting a response to you vmails is in no way an admission of anything. Sheer lunacy to think so an unreturned vmail means all of a sudden, physics don't work.
2) If they happened to even bother to check you out and look at your website, they would be like, "Whoah, what's this conspiracy nut job all about?" I mean it's pretty apparent you're a wild conspiracy theorist. Why bother?

And as for "The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used." That's just an out and out lie. I spent 5 minutes and found all of the fuel required and specs for the mission. As many others have. I could spend more time and get you the documentation that shows the when and where. Which you have already been given. Why do you lie?

You've been presented all of this info many times. You never provide any calculations as to why it's wrong. You just say experts don't return your calls. You're kind of batshit crazy in this regard. Everyone knows it. That's why no one wants to play in your made up sandbox.

Provide some calculations why it's wrong. It's the only place to legitimately start from. Otherwise, you're just whining about how no one will talk to you and you're just lonely in your conspiratorial thoughts.
You haven't studied my website and findings. Re going to the Moon experts suggest that you first arrive in LEO, i.e. an orbit at low altitude (200 000 m) at high speed (>7 km/s) and that then, in orbit, you fire a rocket engine during several minutes to increase velocity of the spacecraft (to >11.2 km/s) and proceed to a way point in space for a second modification of orbit several days later. However, there is no info about it, i.e. location, time, duration, force applied and its direction, etc. It is simply not possible to increase speed in orbit to arrive to another location in space a couple of days later. During the trip to the way point the velocity is reduced due to Earth gravity but  there is no way to calculate the arrival time. Finally, when arriving at the way point in space, you fire the rocket engine again to get out of the orbit around Earth to start orbiting the Moon! Not possible. It doesn't work like that.

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Stash

  • 7318
Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #70 on: September 25, 2020, 01:03:55 AM »
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, Iíll give you a million quid if you can prove itís impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications.
Topic is "Orbits. How do they work?"
It seems we all agree that an orbit is a circular or elliptical trajectory around Earth at a certain speed and altitude not to drop down on Earth again. Getting a satellite into orbit from Earth is easy and possible. French company Arianespace does it all the time. You use a rocket that catapults the satellite into the orbit (while the rocket drops back on Earth).
The problem is to get out of such an orbit intact. It is in fact impossible.
Of course there are 'experts' suggesting that you can go from one orbit to another, from e.g. around Earth, then around the Sun and finally start orbiting the Moon (or an assteroid) but such 'experts' do not work at Arianespace. European Space Agency, ESA, are full och such experts. And you can learn about it at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden, at no cost. The professor says he has himself orbited Earth in a spacecraft many times but ... it is just fantasy. http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm

As Unconvinced pointed out, your 'evidence' seems to be that you called some professors in Sweden and they didn't return your phonecalls? What sort of evidence is that? Sounds simply like the rantings and ravings of a lunatic.

You say the calculations are wrong yet you have no calculations. So how would you know they are wrong? Because someone didn't return your vmail?

What are your calculations? Without them you have zero argument and just appear a crackpot.


Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers. Same offer has been done to US and Russian universities. No replies.
The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used.
Questions remain - how to change high speed orbits and stop in orbits?

Something you don't seem to get:

1) Not getting a response to you vmails is in no way an admission of anything. Sheer lunacy to think so an unreturned vmail means all of a sudden, physics don't work.
2) If they happened to even bother to check you out and look at your website, they would be like, "Whoah, what's this conspiracy nut job all about?" I mean it's pretty apparent you're a wild conspiracy theorist. Why bother?

And as for "The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used." That's just an out and out lie. I spent 5 minutes and found all of the fuel required and specs for the mission. As many others have. I could spend more time and get you the documentation that shows the when and where. Which you have already been given. Why do you lie?

You've been presented all of this info many times. You never provide any calculations as to why it's wrong. You just say experts don't return your calls. You're kind of batshit crazy in this regard. Everyone knows it. That's why no one wants to play in your made up sandbox.

Provide some calculations why it's wrong. It's the only place to legitimately start from. Otherwise, you're just whining about how no one will talk to you and you're just lonely in your conspiratorial thoughts.
You haven't studied my website and findings. Re going to the Moon experts suggest that you first arrive in LEO, i.e. an orbit at low altitude (200 000 m) at high speed (>7 km/s) and that then, in orbit, you fire a rocket engine during several minutes to increase velocity of the spacecraft (to >11.2 km/s) and proceed to a way point in space for a second modification of orbit several days later. However, there is no info about it, i.e. location, time, duration, force applied and its direction, etc. It is simply not possible to increase speed in orbit to arrive to another location in space a couple of days later. During the trip to the way point the velocity is reduced due to Earth gravity but  there is no way to calculate the arrival time. Finally, when arriving at the way point in space, you fire the rocket engine again to get out of the orbit around Earth to start orbiting the Moon! Not possible. It doesn't work like that.

There's plenty of info. A 30 second search yielded this about Apollo 10:

"After launch at 16:49:00 UT on 18 May 1969, the spacecraft was inserted into a 189.9 km x 184.4 km Earth parking orbit at 17:00:54 UT, followed by translunar injection after 1 1/2 orbits at 19:28:21 UT. The CSM separated from the Saturn V 3rd stage (S-IVB) at 19:51:42 UT, transposed, and docked with the LM at 20:06:37. After a three day cruise, Apollo 10 entered an initial 315.5 km x 110.4 km lunar orbit on 21 May 1969 at 20:44:54 UT, using a 356 sec. SPS burn. A second SPS burn lasting 19.3 seconds circularized the orbit to 113.9 km x 109.1 km."

And there's a ton more information. I've only scraped the surface.

So why do you flat out lie and say "However, there is no info about it, i.e. location, time, duration, force applied and its direction, etc."?

Because you haven't looked for the information therefore it doesn't exist. People have given you all of the info, fuel consumption, timing, rocket specs, force, trajectories, etc. Everything. And you lie and say the information doesn't exist? You are a very dishonest man.

*

Heiwa

  • 8976
  • I have been around a long time.
Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #71 on: September 25, 2020, 01:51:16 AM »
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, Iíll give you a million quid if you can prove itís impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications.
Topic is "Orbits. How do they work?"
It seems we all agree that an orbit is a circular or elliptical trajectory around Earth at a certain speed and altitude not to drop down on Earth again. Getting a satellite into orbit from Earth is easy and possible. French company Arianespace does it all the time. You use a rocket that catapults the satellite into the orbit (while the rocket drops back on Earth).
The problem is to get out of such an orbit intact. It is in fact impossible.
Of course there are 'experts' suggesting that you can go from one orbit to another, from e.g. around Earth, then around the Sun and finally start orbiting the Moon (or an assteroid) but such 'experts' do not work at Arianespace. European Space Agency, ESA, are full och such experts. And you can learn about it at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden, at no cost. The professor says he has himself orbited Earth in a spacecraft many times but ... it is just fantasy. http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm

As Unconvinced pointed out, your 'evidence' seems to be that you called some professors in Sweden and they didn't return your phonecalls? What sort of evidence is that? Sounds simply like the rantings and ravings of a lunatic.

You say the calculations are wrong yet you have no calculations. So how would you know they are wrong? Because someone didn't return your vmail?

What are your calculations? Without them you have zero argument and just appear a crackpot.


Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers. Same offer has been done to US and Russian universities. No replies.
The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used.
Questions remain - how to change high speed orbits and stop in orbits?

Something you don't seem to get:

1) Not getting a response to you vmails is in no way an admission of anything. Sheer lunacy to think so an unreturned vmail means all of a sudden, physics don't work.
2) If they happened to even bother to check you out and look at your website, they would be like, "Whoah, what's this conspiracy nut job all about?" I mean it's pretty apparent you're a wild conspiracy theorist. Why bother?

And as for "The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used." That's just an out and out lie. I spent 5 minutes and found all of the fuel required and specs for the mission. As many others have. I could spend more time and get you the documentation that shows the when and where. Which you have already been given. Why do you lie?

You've been presented all of this info many times. You never provide any calculations as to why it's wrong. You just say experts don't return your calls. You're kind of batshit crazy in this regard. Everyone knows it. That's why no one wants to play in your made up sandbox.

Provide some calculations why it's wrong. It's the only place to legitimately start from. Otherwise, you're just whining about how no one will talk to you and you're just lonely in your conspiratorial thoughts.
You haven't studied my website and findings. Re going to the Moon experts suggest that you first arrive in LEO, i.e. an orbit at low altitude (200 000 m) at high speed (>7 km/s) and that then, in orbit, you fire a rocket engine during several minutes to increase velocity of the spacecraft (to >11.2 km/s) and proceed to a way point in space for a second modification of orbit several days later. However, there is no info about it, i.e. location, time, duration, force applied and its direction, etc. It is simply not possible to increase speed in orbit to arrive to another location in space a couple of days later. During the trip to the way point the velocity is reduced due to Earth gravity but  there is no way to calculate the arrival time. Finally, when arriving at the way point in space, you fire the rocket engine again to get out of the orbit around Earth to start orbiting the Moon! Not possible. It doesn't work like that.

There's plenty of info. A 30 second search yielded this about Apollo 10:

"After launch at 16:49:00 UT on 18 May 1969, the spacecraft was inserted into a 189.9 km x 184.4 km Earth parking orbit at 17:00:54 UT, followed by translunar injection after 1 1/2 orbits at 19:28:21 UT. The CSM separated from the Saturn V 3rd stage (S-IVB) at 19:51:42 UT, transposed, and docked with the LM at 20:06:37. After a three day cruise, Apollo 10 entered an initial 315.5 km x 110.4 km lunar orbit on 21 May 1969 at 20:44:54 UT, using a 356 sec. SPS burn. A second SPS burn lasting 19.3 seconds circularized the orbit to 113.9 km x 109.1 km."

And there's a ton more information. I've only scraped the surface.

So why do you flat out lie and say "However, there is no info about it, i.e. location, time, duration, force applied and its direction, etc."?

Because you haven't looked for the information therefore it doesn't exist. People have given you all of the info, fuel consumption, timing, rocket specs, force, trajectories, etc. Everything. And you lie and say the information doesn't exist? You are a very dishonest man.
Yes - but a translunar injection from an orbit around Earth is not possible. It is just typical NASA bullshit published as Fake News 1969 becoming history 2020.
Do you really know what an orbit is?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 02:42:31 AM by Heiwa »

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Shifter

  • 17803
  • Blind to the truth
Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #72 on: September 25, 2020, 02:18:43 AM »
Pick up a rock

Throw it

It orbits the Earth (well, before it hits the ground)

Not a very glamorous one, but hey, no one is Superman
A Future Is Not Given To You. It Is Something You Must Take For Yourself

*

Heiwa

  • 8976
  • I have been around a long time.
Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #73 on: September 25, 2020, 02:49:19 AM »
Pick up a rock

Throw it

It orbits the Earth (well, before it hits the ground)

Not a very glamorous one, but hey, no one is Superman
No, a thrown rock just flies above ground before hitting it.
An orbit is always the curved trajectory of an object, such as the trajectory of a planet around a star or a natural satellite/spacecraft/moon around a planet governed by gravity forces.
Once in an orbit you cannot start orbiting something else.

Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #74 on: September 25, 2020, 04:41:49 AM »
Heiwa play KSP and you will know :)

Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #75 on: September 25, 2020, 04:57:33 AM »
Yes - but a translunar injection from an orbit around Earth is not possible. It is just typical NASA bullshit published as Fake News 1969 becoming history 2020.
Do you really know what an orbit is?

Wail thatís itís not possible and lie about lack of information all you like, you still havenít explained what bit of physics you donít understand.

Why is it not possible to change an orbit by firing the bloody great rocket engine at the back of the spacecraft?




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markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 41390
Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #76 on: September 25, 2020, 06:21:03 AM »
Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
What about yourself? But start learning what an orbit is.
Because I don't live in Sweden, I already know what an orbit is (and how to change it), and I'm not trying to win your "challenge".
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Heiwa

  • 8976
  • I have been around a long time.
Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #77 on: September 25, 2020, 08:03:45 AM »
Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
What about yourself? But start learning what an orbit is.
Because I don't live in Sweden, I already know what an orbit is (and how to change it), and I'm not trying to win your "challenge".
So just tell me how to change a low altitude LEO into a much bigger orbit that touches the Moon, and how you get out of that orbit to start an orbit around the Moon.

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #78 on: September 25, 2020, 08:31:56 AM »
Pick up a rock

Throw it

It orbits the Earth (well, before it hits the ground)

Not a very glamorous one, but hey, no one is Superman
No, a thrown rock just flies above ground before hitting it.
An orbit is always the curved trajectory of an object, such as the trajectory of a planet around a star or a natural satellite/spacecraft/moon around a planet governed by gravity forces.
Once in an orbit you cannot start orbiting something else.

Wrong.

Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn €1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
What about yourself? But start learning what an orbit is.
Because I don't live in Sweden, I already know what an orbit is (and how to change it), and I'm not trying to win your "challenge".
So just tell me how to change a low altitude LEO into a much bigger orbit that touches the Moon, and how you get out of that orbit to start an orbit around the Moon.


Very rudimentary method.

In a large parking lot drive slowly around a light pole with your wheel turned fully.  You are in effect orbiting the light pole.    At a given point, let go of your steering wheel and increase speed.  You will notice you vehicle's steering wheel will start to straighten, effectively changing the vehicle's orbit around the pole.  Accelerate long enough and your wheels will completely straighten out and you will no longer be in orbit around the light pole.

« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 08:35:22 AM by NotSoSkeptical »
Rabinoz RIP

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JJA

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #79 on: September 25, 2020, 08:32:20 AM »
Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
What about yourself? But start learning what an orbit is.
Because I don't live in Sweden, I already know what an orbit is (and how to change it), and I'm not trying to win your "challenge".
So just tell me how to change a low altitude LEO into a much bigger orbit that touches the Moon, and how you get out of that orbit to start an orbit around the Moon.

Push the big red button that says "ROCKET ENGINE START".  :P

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markjo

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #80 on: September 25, 2020, 02:18:18 PM »
Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
What about yourself? But start learning what an orbit is.
Because I don't live in Sweden, I already know what an orbit is (and how to change it), and I'm not trying to win your "challenge".
So just tell me how to change a low altitude LEO into a much bigger orbit that touches the Moon, and how you get out of that orbit to start an orbit around the Moon.
Apply a sufficient force in the appropriate direction at the right time.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Heiwa

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #81 on: September 25, 2020, 05:44:30 PM »
Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
What about yourself? But start learning what an orbit is.
Because I don't live in Sweden, I already know what an orbit is (and how to change it), and I'm not trying to win your "challenge".
So just tell me how to change a low altitude LEO into a much bigger orbit that touches the Moon, and how you get out of that orbit to start an orbit around the Moon.
Apply a sufficient force in the appropriate direction at the right time.
And location and duration, etc. But what is the sufficient force to change LEO to an orbit that brings you the Moon that also orbits Earth at high speed? Neither NASA nor ESA experts know the answer. Or Buzz Aldrin, Ph.D! MIT 63. Imagine MIT selling doctor titles to cheap actors! So you are not alone Markjo selling trips to the Moon.

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markjo

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #82 on: September 25, 2020, 06:06:36 PM »
And location and duration, etc. But what is the sufficient force to change LEO to an orbit that brings you the Moon that also orbits Earth at high speed?
That depends on how fast you want to get there, but you ultimately you would need a delta-v of 3.12 km/s for lunar transfer from LEO.  Entering lunar orbit requires a deceleration delta-v of 0.14 km/s.

Neither NASA nor ESA experts know the answer.
Of course they know the answer.  It's just that you don't believe the answer, and I really don't know how to help you with that.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

frenat

  • 3639
Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #83 on: September 25, 2020, 06:24:03 PM »
Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
What about yourself? But start learning what an orbit is.
Because I don't live in Sweden, I already know what an orbit is (and how to change it), and I'm not trying to win your "challenge".
So just tell me how to change a low altitude LEO into a much bigger orbit that touches the Moon, and how you get out of that orbit to start an orbit around the Moon.
Apply a sufficient force in the appropriate direction at the right time.
And location and duration, etc. But what is the sufficient force to change LEO to an orbit that brings you the Moon that also orbits Earth at high speed? Neither NASA nor ESA experts know the answer. Or Buzz Aldrin, Ph.D! MIT 63. Imagine MIT selling doctor titles to cheap actors! So you are not alone Markjo selling trips to the Moon.

You not understanding and not believing the answer doesn't mean they don't know. It is just you flaunting your ignorance yet again.

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Heiwa

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #84 on: September 25, 2020, 10:52:04 PM »
And location and duration, etc. But what is the sufficient force to change LEO to an orbit that brings you the Moon that also orbits Earth at high speed?
That depends on how fast you want to get there, but you ultimately you would need a delta-v of 3.12 km/s for lunar transfer from LEO.  Entering lunar orbit requires a deceleration delta-v of 0.14 km/s.

Neither NASA nor ESA experts know the answer.
Of course they know the answer.  It's just that you don't believe the answer, and I really don't know how to help you with that.

Well, if they know the answer, why not publish it? Start with a very simple example. You are in low altitude, fast, circular LEO and want to change the shape of that orbit into an elliptical one in which your spacecraft encounters the Moon far away, when the Moon flies by (in its orbit around Earth).
What force (N) is required for your spacecraft to get out of LEO? In what direction is the force applied? What is the duration (s) of the application of the force? What is the trajectory of the modified LEO (positions) and what is the variable speed and direction (say every 6 hrs) of your spacecraft? You are in a new elliptic orbit where speed and direction change all the time. How do ensure that the spacecraft safely arrives at the target (position X close to the Moon) after leaving LEO? It is basic space navigation (where speed and direction change all the time = very complicated stuff).
I can navigate a ship at slow, constant speed on a straight course on an ocean of a rotating Earth from A to B but not a spacecraft in 3D space, where speed and direction are reduced due to gravity all the time.

Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #85 on: September 26, 2020, 03:22:13 AM »

Well, if they know the answer, why not publish it? Start with a very simple example. You are in low altitude, fast, circular LEO and want to change the shape of that orbit into an elliptical one in which your spacecraft encounters the Moon far away, when the Moon flies by (in its orbit around Earth).

Like this you mean?  One of many examples you could have easily found if you could be bothered in your years of scienice denial.  It took me a few minutes.

http://www.esa.int/esapub/bulletin/bullet103/biesbroek103.pdf

Quote
What force (N) is required for your spacecraft to get out of LEO? In what direction is the force applied? What is the duration (s) of the application of the force? What is the trajectory of the modified LEO (positions) and what is the variable speed and direction (say every 6 hrs) of your spacecraft?

The above article deals mainly in delta v.  The force required, duration of burns and exact trajectory obviously depends on the specific spacecraft and mission plans. 

The agencies are under no obligation to publish every small detail of their missions.  They publish what they think is useful to other scientists and engineers or interesting to members of the public who genuinely want to learn.  Itís not their job however to pander to the demands of internet loud mouths who do nothing but call them frauds and reject everything they see as fake anyway.

Apollo missions are different though.  Due to them being historically and technologically significant, NASA has released the aforementioned reams of information for people to delve through.

You can find summaries of each maneuver (planned vs actual) in the post mission reports, like this one:

https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap11fj/pdf/a11-postlaunch-rep.pdf

Or maybe you want to know how the trajectory affected choice of potential landing sites?:

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar/site_studies/NASA_C65728v1.pdf

Maybe you want to know how the guidance computers worked?  You can download the original code or play with one of the many emulators various nerds have made with it:

https://svtsim.com/moonjs/agc.html

Thatís whatís so funny about the moon landing conspiracy.  NASA and their contractors would have had to designed, built and tested everything to meet the mission requirements, or thousands of engineers and technicians would have noticed.  Then they would have had to plan the mission in meticulous detail according to what they built or discrepancies in the released documents would be obvious to anyone who understands what theyíre looking at.  At this point they might as well just do it for real.  But on top of all that, they would have had to do everything needed to fake it as well- theyíd have needed film studios and technicians, people to fake the photos, people to fake the samples, some way plant fake signals at tracking stations, etc, etc and everyone involved would be an enormous security risk.

In 50 years since Apollo not one whistleblower has come forward.  Not one engineer has claimed the part they worked on couldnít have done job is was supposed to.  Not one scientist has said the readings they took or the calculations they made didnít make sense.  And no has found any real verifiable problems with any of the documents.

Thatís why all the conspiracy websites completely ignore all this and just whinge that shadows look a bit funny.  Because the they have nothing, absolutely nothing of any substance.

Quote
You are in a new elliptic orbit where speed and direction change all the time. How do ensure that the spacecraft safely arrives at the target (position X close to the Moon) after leaving LEO?

Course corrections.

Quote
It is basic space navigation (where speed and direction change all the time = very complicated stuff).
I can navigate a ship at slow, constant speed on a straight course on an ocean of a rotating Earth from A to B but not a spacecraft in 3D space, where speed and direction are reduced due to gravity all the time.

Really? Can you just point a ship in the right direction, start the engines and forget about everything until you arrive?  Or do you need to check your position and heading and make adjustments?  Can you plan the rudder position and motor speed for the whole trip in advance?  What if youíre sailing?  Donít wind and currents matter at all?  Why does no one publish this information?

Are you really an expert on marine safety?



*

Heiwa

  • 8976
  • I have been around a long time.
Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #86 on: September 26, 2020, 08:36:40 AM »

Well, if they know the answer, why not publish it? Start with a very simple example. You are in low altitude, fast, circular LEO and want to change the shape of that orbit into an elliptical one in which your spacecraft encounters the Moon far away, when the Moon flies by (in its orbit around Earth).

Like this you mean?  One of many examples you could have easily found if you could be bothered in your years of scienice denial.  It took me a few minutes.

http://www.esa.int/esapub/bulletin/bullet103/biesbroek103.pdf

Quote
What force (N) is required for your spacecraft to get out of LEO? In what direction is the force applied? What is the duration (s) of the application of the force? What is the trajectory of the modified LEO (positions) and what is the variable speed and direction (say every 6 hrs) of your spacecraft?

The above article deals mainly in delta v.  The force required, duration of burns and exact trajectory obviously depends on the specific spacecraft and mission plans. 

The agencies are under no obligation to publish every small detail of their missions.  They publish what they think is useful to other scientists and engineers or interesting to members of the public who genuinely want to learn.  Itís not their job however to pander to the demands of internet loud mouths who do nothing but call them frauds and reject everything they see as fake anyway.

Apollo missions are different though.  Due to them being historically and technologically significant, NASA has released the aforementioned reams of information for people to delve through.

You can find summaries of each maneuver (planned vs actual) in the post mission reports, like this one:

https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap11fj/pdf/a11-postlaunch-rep.pdf

Or maybe you want to know how the trajectory affected choice of potential landing sites?:

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar/site_studies/NASA_C65728v1.pdf

Maybe you want to know how the guidance computers worked?  You can download the original code or play with one of the many emulators various nerds have made with it:

https://svtsim.com/moonjs/agc.html

Thatís whatís so funny about the moon landing conspiracy.  NASA and their contractors would have had to designed, built and tested everything to meet the mission requirements, or thousands of engineers and technicians would have noticed.  Then they would have had to plan the mission in meticulous detail according to what they built or discrepancies in the released documents would be obvious to anyone who understands what theyíre looking at.  At this point they might as well just do it for real.  But on top of all that, they would have had to do everything needed to fake it as well- theyíd have needed film studios and technicians, people to fake the photos, people to fake the samples, some way plant fake signals at tracking stations, etc, etc and everyone involved would be an enormous security risk.

In 50 years since Apollo not one whistleblower has come forward.  Not one engineer has claimed the part they worked on couldnít have done job is was supposed to.  Not one scientist has said the readings they took or the calculations they made didnít make sense.  And no has found any real verifiable problems with any of the documents.

Thatís why all the conspiracy websites completely ignore all this and just whinge that shadows look a bit funny.  Because the they have nothing, absolutely nothing of any substance.

Quote
You are in a new elliptic orbit where speed and direction change all the time. How do ensure that the spacecraft safely arrives at the target (position X close to the Moon) after leaving LEO?

Course corrections.

Quote
It is basic space navigation (where speed and direction change all the time = very complicated stuff).
I can navigate a ship at slow, constant speed on a straight course on an ocean of a rotating Earth from A to B but not a spacecraft in 3D space, where speed and direction are reduced due to gravity all the time.


Really? Can you just point a ship in the right direction, start the engines and forget about everything until you arrive?  Or do you need to check your position and heading and make adjustments?  Can you plan the rudder position and motor speed for the whole trip in advance?  What if youíre sailing?  Donít wind and currents matter at all?  Why does no one publish this information?

Are you really an expert on marine safety?
No, I try to improve safety at sea since 1971.
Re topic orbits - you say:
"The agencies are under no obligation to publish every small detail of their missions.  They publish what they think is useful to other scientists and engineers or interesting to members of the public who genuinely want to learn.  Itís not their job however to pander to the demands of internet loud mouths who do nothing but call them frauds and reject everything they see as fake anyway."
I am genuinely interested to know how to leave LEO to arrive close to the moving Moon. I have asked the agencies several times but ... no reply.
That's why I wonder about it on the Internet?
Please explain to me how to fly to the Moon. No garbage links to ESA/NASA bullshit, please.

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JJA

  • 4202
  • Math is math!
Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #87 on: September 26, 2020, 08:40:35 AM »
I am genuinely interested to know how to leave LEO to arrive close to the moving Moon. I have asked the agencies several times but ... no reply.
That's why I wonder about it on the Internet?
Please explain to me how to fly to the Moon. No garbage links to ESA/NASA bullshit, please.

Yeah, ask them how to unmask secret lizard people and I bet you get the same answer.

That might give you a hint why people don't write you back.


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Heiwa

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  • I have been around a long time.
Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #88 on: September 26, 2020, 09:03:44 AM »
I am genuinely interested to know how to leave LEO to arrive close to the moving Moon. I have asked the agencies several times but ... no reply.
That's why I wonder about it on the Internet?
Please explain to me how to fly to the Moon. No garbage links to ESA/NASA bullshit, please.

Yeah, ask them how to unmask secret lizard people and I bet you get the same answer.

That might give you a hint why people don't write you back.
Yes - plenty people are like that. Pure bullshit. What a crowd.
But topic is orbits. Do you know what an orbit is?

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JJA

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #89 on: September 26, 2020, 09:49:55 AM »
I am genuinely interested to know how to leave LEO to arrive close to the moving Moon. I have asked the agencies several times but ... no reply.
That's why I wonder about it on the Internet?
Please explain to me how to fly to the Moon. No garbage links to ESA/NASA bullshit, please.

Yeah, ask them how to unmask secret lizard people and I bet you get the same answer.

That might give you a hint why people don't write you back.
Yes - plenty people are like that. Pure bullshit. What a crowd.
But topic is orbits. Do you know what an orbit is?

Do you?  Please explain what you think an orbit is.