Orbits. How do they work?

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Stash

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #420 on: October 25, 2020, 10:47:43 PM »
Sorry, I live in a penthouse with a roof garden and a view of the Mediterranean sea below. How do you live?

The more he says this the more I'm convinced his only view is of padded walls. :)
Well, I am happy to say you are wrong.

That's exactly what someone delusional would say.
We've never really been a single entity.  We're more like a collection of rabid honey badgers stuffed into a 3 piece suit.  It occasionally bears the semblance of a man

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Heiwa

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #421 on: October 26, 2020, 01:21:47 AM »
Sorry, I live in a penthouse with a roof garden and a view of the Mediterranean sea below. How do you live?

The more he says this the more I'm convinced his only view is of padded walls. :)
Well, I am happy to say you are wrong.

That's exactly what someone delusional would say.
Yes, if you live in a gutter since young age, you are just envious thinking so.
Topic is however orbits.
Plenty utter maniacs, like you, believe that, when going to the Moon for a piss and get famous at US' taxpayers' expense, you can change orbits from around Earth to around Moon by pushing a button.
I fully agree! Do it! Push the button! Get famous!

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markjo

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #422 on: October 26, 2020, 06:21:21 AM »
Plenty utter maniacs, like you, believe that, when going to the Moon for a piss and get famous at US' taxpayers' expense, you can change orbits from around Earth to around Moon by pushing a button.
I fully agree! Do it! Push the button! Get famous!
Who pushed your button?

Do you believe that self-driving cars are real?  You know, push a button and the car will take you wherever you want to go?  If so, then I would contend that self-driving cars are harder than flying to the moon.  When flying to the moon, there is nothing in yoru way and you can plan, to the second, every part of the journey.  Self-driving cars, on the other hand,  need to actively look out and avoid all sorts of unpredictable situations like pedestrians, cross traffic, drivers not following the rules of the road, etc.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Heiwa

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #423 on: October 26, 2020, 07:42:16 AM »
Plenty utter maniacs, like you, believe that, when going to the Moon for a piss and get famous at US' taxpayers' expense, you can change orbits from around Earth to around Moon by pushing a button.
I fully agree! Do it! Push the button! Get famous!
Who pushed your button?

Do you believe that self-driving cars are real?  You know, push a button and the car will take you wherever you want to go?  If so, then I would contend that self-driving cars are harder than flying to the moon.  When flying to the moon, there is nothing in yoru way and you can plan, to the second, every part of the journey.  Self-driving cars, on the other hand,  need to actively look out and avoid all sorts of unpredictable situations like pedestrians, cross traffic, drivers not following the rules of the road, etc.
Yes, yes. Going to the Moon is easy. Just take off, push buttons, change orbits a couple of times and you arrive. Take off again, push buttons again, change orbits and drop straight back on Earth. And 2024 an American woman will do it! Without a driving license.

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JJA

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #424 on: October 26, 2020, 08:02:07 AM »
Plenty utter maniacs, like you, believe that, when going to the Moon for a piss and get famous at US' taxpayers' expense, you can change orbits from around Earth to around Moon by pushing a button.
I fully agree! Do it! Push the button! Get famous!
Who pushed your button?

Do you believe that self-driving cars are real?  You know, push a button and the car will take you wherever you want to go?  If so, then I would contend that self-driving cars are harder than flying to the moon.  When flying to the moon, there is nothing in yoru way and you can plan, to the second, every part of the journey.  Self-driving cars, on the other hand,  need to actively look out and avoid all sorts of unpredictable situations like pedestrians, cross traffic, drivers not following the rules of the road, etc.
Yes, yes. Going to the Moon is easy. Just take off, push buttons, change orbits a couple of times and you arrive. Take off again, push buttons again, change orbits and drop straight back on Earth. And 2024 an American woman will do it! Without a driving license.

Women have been able to get a drivers license since 1910 in America, just like anyone else.

Not sure what your problem with women is.  Probably as complicated as a mystery to you as orbital mechanics. :)

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Heiwa

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #425 on: October 26, 2020, 09:52:15 AM »
Plenty utter maniacs, like you, believe that, when going to the Moon for a piss and get famous at US' taxpayers' expense, you can change orbits from around Earth to around Moon by pushing a button.
I fully agree! Do it! Push the button! Get famous!
Who pushed your button?

Do you believe that self-driving cars are real?  You know, push a button and the car will take you wherever you want to go?  If so, then I would contend that self-driving cars are harder than flying to the moon.  When flying to the moon, there is nothing in yoru way and you can plan, to the second, every part of the journey.  Self-driving cars, on the other hand,  need to actively look out and avoid all sorts of unpredictable situations like pedestrians, cross traffic, drivers not following the rules of the road, etc.
Yes, yes. Going to the Moon is easy. Just take off, push buttons, change orbits a couple of times and you arrive. Take off again, push buttons again, change orbits and drop straight back on Earth. And 2024 an American woman will do it! Without a driving license.

Women have been able to get a drivers license since 1910 in America, just like anyone else.

Not sure what your problem with women is.  Probably as complicated as a mystery to you as orbital mechanics. :)
I have no problems with women. My problem is with idiots that think you can change orbits by pushing a button.

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markjo

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #426 on: October 26, 2020, 11:01:30 AM »
Yes, yes. Going to the Moon is easy.
No, no.  Going to the moon is very hard.  However, there are harder things in this world.  Convincing you that very hard things are still possible is one of them.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Heiwa

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #427 on: October 26, 2020, 08:23:28 PM »
Yes, yes. Going to the Moon is easy.
No, no.  Going to the moon is very hard.  However, there are harder things in this world.  Convincing you that very hard things are still possible is one of them.
Well, it should be easy to explain how a spacecraft shifts from one orbit around the Earth to another orbit around the Moon ..., if it is possible.
It seems a FORCE has to be applied in space in a certain location, direction, duration and size, while the spacecraft is already moving in its orbit around Earth ... to end up in an orbit around the Moon (moving in another direction).
Having studied the explanations given for many years I simply conclude it is not possible. Then I just looked at the people giving the explanations, if they dared to identify themselves. Clowns!

Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #428 on: October 26, 2020, 08:31:34 PM »
It has already been done and here is the log
The link
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/apollo/missions/apollo11.html
Quote

Mission Highlights
Apollo 11 launched from Cape Kennedy on July 16, 1969, carrying Commander Neil Armstrong, Command Module Pilot Michael Collins and Lunar Module Pilot Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin into an initial Earth-orbit of 114 by 116 miles. An estimated 650 million people watched Armstrong's televised image and heard his voice describe the event as he took "...one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind" on July 20, 1969.

Two hours, 44 minutes and one-and-a-half revolutions after launch, the S-IVB stage reignited for a second burn of five minutes, 48 seconds, placing Apollo 11 into a translunar orbit. The command and service module, or CSM, Columbia separated from the stage, which included the spacecraft-lunar module adapter, or SLA, containing the lunar module, or LM, Eagle. After transposition and jettisoning of the SLA panels on the S-IVB stage, the CSM docked with the LM. The S-IVB stage separated and injected into heliocentric orbit four hours, 40 minutes into the flight.
The first color TV transmission to Earth from Apollo 11 occurred during the translunar coast of the CSM/LM. Later, on July 17, a three-second burn of the SPS was made to perform the second of four scheduled midcourse corrections programmed for the flight. The launch had been so successful that the other three were not needed.
On July 18, Armstrong and Aldrin put on their spacesuits and climbed through the docking tunnel from Columbia to Eagle to check out the LM, and to make the second TV transmission.
On July 19, after Apollo 11 had flown behind the moon out of contact with Earth, came the first lunar orbit insertion maneuver. At about 75 hours, 50 minutes into the flight, a retrograde firing of the SPS for 357.5 seconds placed the spacecraft into an initial, elliptical-lunar orbit of 69 by 190 miles. Later, a second burn of the SPS for 17 seconds placed the docked vehicles into a lunar orbit of 62 by 70.5 miles, which was calculated to change the orbit of the CSM piloted by Collins. The change happened because of lunar-gravity perturbations to the nominal 69 miles required for subsequent LM rendezvous and docking after completion of the lunar landing. Before this second SPS firing, another TV transmission was made, this time from the surface of the moon.
On July 20, Armstrong and Aldrin entered the LM again, made a final check, and at 100 hours, 12 minutes into the flight, the Eagle undocked and separated from Columbia for visual inspection. At 101 hours, 36 minutes, when the LM was behind the moon on its 13th orbit, the LM descent engine fired for 30 seconds to provide retrograde thrust and commence descent orbit insertion, changing to an orbit of 9 by 67 miles, on a trajectory that was virtually identical to that flown by Apollo 10. At 102 hours, 33 minutes, after Columbia and Eagle had reappeared from behind the moon and when the LM was about 300 miles uprange, powered descent initiation was performed with the descent engine firing for 756.3 seconds. After eight minutes, the LM was at "high gate" about 26,000 feet above the surface and about five miles from the landing site.
The descent engine continued to provide braking thrust until about 102 hours, 45 minutes into the mission. Partially piloted manually by Armstrong, the Eagle landed in the Sea of Tranquility in Site 2 at 0 degrees, 41 minutes, 15 seconds north latitude and 23 degrees, 26 minutes east longitude. This was about four miles downrange from the predicted touchdown point and occurred almost one-and-a-half minutes earlier than scheduled. It included a powered descent that ran a mere nominal 40 seconds longer than preflight planning due to translation maneuvers to avoid a crater during the final phase of landing. Attached to the descent stage was a commemorative plaque signed by President Richard M. Nixon and the three astronauts.
The flight plan called for the first EVA to begin after a four-hour rest period, but it was advanced to begin as soon as possible. Nonetheless, it was almost four hours later that Armstrong emerged from the Eagle and deployed the TV camera for the transmission of the event to Earth. At about 109 hours, 42 minutes after launch, Armstrong stepped onto the moon. About 20 minutes later, Aldrin followed him. The camera was then positioned on a tripod about 30 feet from the LM. Half an hour later, President Nixon spoke by telephone link with the astronauts.
Commemorative medallions bearing the names of the three Apollo 1 astronauts who lost their lives in a launch pad fire, and two cosmonauts who also died in accidents, were left on the moon's surface. A one-and-a-half inch silicon disk, containing micro miniaturized goodwill messages from 73 countries, and the names of congressional and NASA leaders, also stayed behind.
During the EVA, in which they both ranged up to 300 feet from the Eagle, Aldrin deployed the Early Apollo Scientific Experiments Package, or EASEP, experiments, and Armstrong and Aldrin gathered and verbally reported on the lunar surface samples. After Aldrin had spent one hour, 33 minutes on the surface, he re-entered the LM, followed 41 minutes later by Armstrong. The entire EVA phase lasted more than two-and-a-half hours, ending at 111 hours, 39 minutes into the mission.
Armstrong and Aldrin spent 21 hours, 36 minutes on the moon's surface. After a rest period that included seven hours of sleep, the ascent stage engine fired at 124 hours, 22 minutes. It was shut down 435 seconds later when the Eagle reached an initial orbit of 11 by 55 miles above the moon, and when Columbia was on its 25th revolution. As the ascent stage reached apolune at 125 hours, 19 minutes, the reaction control system, or RCS, fired so as to nearly circularize the Eagle orbit at about 56 miles, some 13 miles below and slightly behind Columbia. Subsequent firings of the LM RCS changed the orbit to 57 by 72 miles. Docking with Columbia occurred on the CSM's 27th revolution at 128 hours, three minutes into the mission. Armstrong and Aldrin returned to the CSM with Collins. Four hours later, the LM jettisoned and remained in lunar orbit.
Trans-Earth injection of the CSM began July 21 as the SPS fired for two-and-a-half minutes when Columbia was behind the moon in its 59th hour of lunar orbit. Following this, the astronauts slept for about 10 hours. An 11.2 second firing of the SPS accomplished the only midcourse correction required on the return flight. The correction was made July 22 at about 150 hours, 30 minutes into the mission. Two more television transmissions were made during the trans-Earth coast.
Re-entry procedures were initiated July 24, 44 hours after leaving lunar orbit. The SM separated from the CM, which was re-oriented to a heat-shield-forward position. Parachute deployment occurred at 195 hours, 13 minutes. After a flight of 195 hours, 18 minutes, 35 seconds - about 36 minutes longer than planned - Apollo 11 splashed down in the Pacific Ocean, 13 miles from the recovery ship USS Hornet. Because of bad weather in the target area, the landing point was changed by about 250 miles. Apollo 11 landed 13 degrees, 19 minutes north latitude and 169 degrees, nine minutes west longitude July 24, 1969.
And Hollywood did not have the capabilities of doing it at that time.
The Comparison of what you find in 2001 space odyssey, to the real videos of the moon landing is absurd.
It is truly amazing how often you ignore history and call it lies.
The the universe has no obligation to makes sense to you.
The earth is a globe.

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markjo

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #429 on: October 27, 2020, 06:22:51 AM »
Yes, yes. Going to the Moon is easy.
No, no.  Going to the moon is very hard.  However, there are harder things in this world.  Convincing you that very hard things are still possible is one of them.
Well, it should be easy to explain how a spacecraft shifts from one orbit around the Earth to another orbit around the Moon ..., if it is possible.
It seems a FORCE has to be applied in space in a certain location, direction, duration and size, while the spacecraft is already moving in its orbit around Earth ... to end up in an orbit around the Moon (moving in another direction).
It seems that you already know how orbital transfers work seeing as you just explained it.  By the way, the earth rotates in the same direction that the moon orbits the earth.

Having studied the explanations given for many years I simply conclude it is not possible.
Then it's a good thing that the aerospace industry doesn't care about your conclusions.

Then I just looked at the people giving the explanations, if they dared to identify themselves. Clowns!
If you can't beat them, mock them.  Right? ::)  It's called an ad hominem and it's a logical fallacy employed by people who have no real argument.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 06:24:53 AM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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markjo

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Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #430 on: October 27, 2020, 01:00:07 PM »
The question remains what FORCE you apply to get out of Earth orbit and to move into Moon orbit. Any ideas?
According to Newton, force = mass x acceleration and every action has an equal and opposite reaction.  So I would suggest accelerating some mass from your spacecraft in the opposite direction that you want to go.

Do you push a button for it?
That depends.  Does your spacecraft have the appropriate button?

No, to steer a US spacecraft to the Moon you need years of training, e.g. as an Air Force pilot bombing Asian monkeys.
Or, you can use auto-pilot (guidance computer) to do the tricky parts.

It is simple!
No.  You want to make it simple, but I keep telling you that it's very difficult.  Why don't you want to believe me?

I'm going to ignore the rest of your off-topic, ignorant, racist rant.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Heiwa

  • 9255
  • I have been around a long time.
Re: Orbits. How do they work?
« Reply #431 on: October 27, 2020, 07:06:15 PM »
The question remains what FORCE you apply to get out of Earth orbit and to move into Moon orbit. Any ideas?
According to Newton, force = mass x acceleration and every action has an equal and opposite reaction.  So I would suggest accelerating some mass from your spacecraft in the opposite direction that you want to go.

Do you push a button for it?
That depends.  Does your spacecraft have the appropriate button?

No, to steer a US spacecraft to the Moon you need years of training, e.g. as an Air Force pilot bombing Asian monkeys.
Or, you can use auto-pilot (guidance computer) to do the tricky parts.

It is simple!
No.  You want to make it simple, but I keep telling you that it's very difficult.  Why don't you want to believe me?

I'm going to ignore the rest of your off-topic, ignorant, racist rant.
Thanks, so jumping from one orbit (around Earth) to another orbit (around the Moon) is not possible. I have said it all the time! Only one way orbits around Earth is feasible, e.g. communication and weather satellites, which there are plenty. But no American women on the Moon south pole 2024, in spite of NASA and POTUS saying so. The Artmis project is a fraud.