Life in the Venusian clouds?

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Shifter

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Life in the Venusian clouds?
« on: September 15, 2020, 04:36:03 AM »
https://news.mit.edu/2020/life-venus-phosphine-0914

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Now, in a surprising twist, scientists at MIT, Cardiff University, and elsewhere have observed what may be signs of life in the clouds of our other, even closer planetary neighbor, Venus. While they have not found direct evidence of living organisms there, if their observation is indeed associated with life, it must be some sort of “aerial” life-form in Venus’ clouds — the only habitable portion of what is otherwise a scorched and inhospitable world. Their discovery and analysis is published today in the journal Nature Astronomy.

The astronomers, led by Jane Greaves of Cardiff University, detected in Venus’ atmosphere a spectral fingerprint, or light-based signature, of phosphine. MIT scientists have previously shown that if this stinky, poisonous gas were ever detected on a rocky, terrestrial planet, it could only be produced by a living organism there. The researchers made the detection using the James Clerk Maxwell Telescope (JCMT) in Hawaii, and the Atacama Large Millimeter Array (ALMA) observatory in Chile.

The MIT team followed up the new observation with an exhaustive analysis to see whether anything other than life could have produced phosphine in Venus’ harsh, sulfuric environment. Based on the many scenarios they considered, the team concludes that there is no explanation for the phosphine detected in Venus’ clouds, other than the presence of life.

So why not get a probe to fly over and scoop some of the clouds up and return them to Earth? Certainly cheaper and could yield far more interesting information (as well as something real from another planet)

Mars is over rated. If life existed at some point outside of Earth, Venus is a far better contender. Who knows, maybe a billion years ago Venusians screwed up their planet much like we are doing to Earth and seeded Earth as a means to preserve their legacy. I dont know why we dont do the same. When we went to Pluto to drop Clyde Tombaugh ashes of, we could have also sent lots of amino acids, DNA and proteins etc. Building blocks of life which may thaw in about 5 billion years as the sun gets brighter and hotter.

Like a virus, we should be hitting up all potential habitable worlds with our mark to spread. Plenty of Jupiter and Saturns moons are ideal. The end result may not be human like us, but at least we would leave a lasting mark long after our inevitable extinction

But yeah, life on Venus. Lets scoop it up, bring it back and welcome our new cloudling overlords  8)
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JJA

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2020, 05:09:28 AM »
Mars is over rated. If life existed at some point outside of Earth, Venus is a far better contender. Who knows, maybe a billion years ago Venusians screwed up their planet much like we are doing to Earth and seeded Earth as a means to preserve their legacy. I dont know why we dont do the same. When we went to Pluto to drop Clyde Tombaugh ashes of, we could have also sent lots of amino acids, DNA and proteins etc. Building blocks of life which may thaw in about 5 billion years as the sun gets brighter and hotter.

Like a virus, we should be hitting up all potential habitable worlds with our mark to spread. Plenty of Jupiter and Saturns moons are ideal. The end result may not be human like us, but at least we would leave a lasting mark long after our inevitable extinction

That's a terrible idea.  We shouldn't contaminate any planetary body until we fully examine and explore them first for any signs of life.

If there is life on any of them we have ONE CHANCE to find it before we spread out crap (literally) all over everything and destroy it.

We also didn't drop off Clyde Tombaugh's ashes onto Pluto. They are far past Pluto now, headed out of the solar system. New Horizons didn't literally stop at Pluto to take pictures and leave presents you know. ::)

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Shifter

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2020, 05:37:33 AM »
Mars is over rated. If life existed at some point outside of Earth, Venus is a far better contender. Who knows, maybe a billion years ago Venusians screwed up their planet much like we are doing to Earth and seeded Earth as a means to preserve their legacy. I dont know why we dont do the same. When we went to Pluto to drop Clyde Tombaugh ashes of, we could have also sent lots of amino acids, DNA and proteins etc. Building blocks of life which may thaw in about 5 billion years as the sun gets brighter and hotter.

Like a virus, we should be hitting up all potential habitable worlds with our mark to spread. Plenty of Jupiter and Saturns moons are ideal. The end result may not be human like us, but at least we would leave a lasting mark long after our inevitable extinction

That's a terrible idea.  We shouldn't contaminate any planetary body until we fully examine and explore them first for any signs of life.

If there is life on any of them we have ONE CHANCE to find it before we spread out crap (literally) all over everything and destroy it.

We also didn't drop off Clyde Tombaugh's ashes onto Pluto. They are far past Pluto now, headed out of the solar system. New Horizons didn't literally stop at Pluto to take pictures and leave presents you know. ::)

The terrible idea is betting on a hope and prayer that mankind will work out all its problems and not annihilate each other.

We haven't even fully examined our own planet, so what makes you so sure we could examine another planet before deciding what to do? Of course we are going to want to stick a flag in Mars. We would do that even if there were intelligent indigenous life there.

Also keep in mind other countries may not play by the same rules as America. If China wanted to launch a mission that would smash a steaming pile of shit on the Martian surface, who is going to stop them? Yes there is a treaty....

Article IX of the United Nations Outer Space Treaty
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“States Parties to the Treaty shall pursue studies of outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, and conduct exploration of them so as to avoid their harmful contamination and also adverse changes in the environment of the Earth resulting from the introduction of extraterrestrial matter and, where necessary, shall adopt appropriate measures for this purpose.”

I emphasized harmful. China (who I believe did not partake in this treaty and plays by its own rules anyway) could simply make up a reason to say why dumping shit on Mars would be beneficial for science research or kickstarting a terraforming process etc. I doubt America would shoot down a Chinese probe over it. Any nation who is not party to the treaty doesn't have to abide by it anyway

Clyde Tombaugh got jipped. Would have been cool if they at least released his ashes to smash them over the surface of Pluto. In 5 billion years his ashes could be food for the Plutonian life that may evolve there. They'll have to make do without him now :(

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JJA

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2020, 05:50:44 AM »
The terrible idea is betting on a hope and prayer that mankind will work out all its problems and not annihilate each other.

We haven't even fully examined our own planet, so what makes you so sure we could examine another planet before deciding what to do? Of course we are going to want to stick a flag in Mars. We would do that even if there were intelligent indigenous life there.

Why bother throwing DNA all over the solar system in case we perish when we have a whole planet full of life ready to take over? No matter what we do to the Earth it's going to continue to have life.

Deliberately throwing bacteria and ashes and contaminating planets before we have a chance to look for life there first is just dumb. Get over it. :)

Besides, the only organism that can eat ashes is a dragon. Didn't you see the movie?

Like New Horizons, I'm outta here. :)

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Shifter

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2020, 06:31:31 AM »
The terrible idea is betting on a hope and prayer that mankind will work out all its problems and not annihilate each other.

We haven't even fully examined our own planet, so what makes you so sure we could examine another planet before deciding what to do? Of course we are going to want to stick a flag in Mars. We would do that even if there were intelligent indigenous life there.

Why bother throwing DNA all over the solar system in case we perish when we have a whole planet full of life ready to take over? No matter what we do to the Earth it's going to continue to have life.

Deliberately throwing bacteria and ashes and contaminating planets before we have a chance to look for life there first is just dumb. Get over it. :)

Besides, the only organism that can eat ashes is a dragon. Didn't you see the movie?

Like New Horizons, I'm outta here. :)

The Earth will not support life forever. On our current trajectory, the human race will be lucky if we can enjoy our current way of life for several more generations. If the climate doesn't punish us, our love for war and conflict will.

Anyway, so you dont want to talk about that ::) Well what do you think of life potentially existing on Venus? Should NASA send a mission there to scoop up some clouds and bring it back? Or is that mean to potential alien life that may not survive?

Do you think Venus is a better candidate for finding life or even a future human settlement than Mars?

I think in the short term, Venus is better. Longer term, Mars will be better
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Pezevenk

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2020, 07:01:11 AM »
Venus is terrible for settlement. It's, like, the second worse place after the gas giants. Who knows, maybe there is life in the clouds of Venus (we gotta wait for further confirmation though, it's a pretty extraordinary claim). But human settlements? Well, the ground is pretty active volcanically, it is insanely hot, it rains acid, the pressure is really high, and leaving the planet is harder than leaving Earth. I seriously doubt a small team of humans can even be sent there and back even within the next 250 years Apollo style, let alone settle.

I imagine for someone to visit Venus, you'd have to build a big space station around Venus, and then maybe you'd have to have some sort of space shuttle that is somehow strong enough to withstand entrance into the extremely dense atmosphere, and then also withstand the high pressure and temperature of the atmosphere for a long time. Then the even harder part would be for that shuttle to take off again and leave Venus and dock back to the station. It's really hard to do, and far beyond current technology.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 07:16:55 AM by Pezevenk »
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sokarul

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2020, 07:03:17 AM »
It’s nice 1 hour every seven years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Summer_in_a_Day
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markjo

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2020, 07:05:17 AM »
The Earth will not support life forever. On our current trajectory, the human race will be lucky if we can enjoy our current way of life for several more generations.
The irony is that it'll probably take at least that long to develop the technology required to make self-sufficient off earth colonies viable. 
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Pezevenk

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2020, 07:20:24 AM »
The Earth will not support life forever. On our current trajectory, the human race will be lucky if we can enjoy our current way of life for several more generations.
The irony is that it'll probably take at least that long to develop the technology required to make self-sufficient off earth colonies viable.
Yeah, I understand settlements for research and mining etc, but settlements to replace earth? Idk, even if Earth completely turns to shit due to climate change and whatnot it will still be ten times better than Mars or any other place...
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Shifter

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2020, 07:21:11 AM »
Venus is terrible for settlement. It's, like, the second worse place after the gas giants.

Cloud cities. Not a joke, actually workable. Certainly more workable than trying to build entire structures on Mars. Keep in mind, death is assured exposed to Mars as it is on Venus so both planets you need protection. Is there really a difference for the people inside between a giant balloon sailing in the Venusian atmosphere as opposed to a biodome on Mars?

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20161019-the-amazing-cloud-cities-we-could-build-on-venus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Venus

Also

Venus has similar gravity to Earth and similar air pressure from 50-70km above the surface
It is much closer to Earth (cheaper and quicker to get to)
Launch windows are more frequent at 584 days, compared to the 780 days for Mars
It gets 4x the solar radiation than Mars (might be handy for solar power) and also its thick atmosphere (where your cloud city could float) provides better protection from radiation than Mars

Still, at this point, Venus or Mars, both seem like shit places to live - well at least compared to Earth. Personally, I think any fortunes spent trying to make either of those hellish planets livable would be better spent trying to fix the damage being done to our own planet.
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markjo

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2020, 07:52:04 AM »
Venus is terrible for settlement. It's, like, the second worse place after the gas giants.

Cloud cities. Not a joke, actually workable.
Are they?  If so, then why haven't we built any could cities on the Earth?  Surely they would be much more workable here than on Venus.

Certainly more workable than trying to build entire structures on Mars.
Since when is building in the sky more workable than building on the ground? ???
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Shifter

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2020, 08:04:31 AM »
Venus is terrible for settlement. It's, like, the second worse place after the gas giants.

Cloud cities. Not a joke, actually workable.
Are they?  If so, then why haven't we built any could cities on the Earth?  Surely they would be much more workable here than on Venus.

Because regular oxygen/nitrogen air on Earth is a lifting gas on Venus. It would also 'settle' at around 50km high.

You cant breathe helium and the balloon here on Earth would not settle in any layer and stay there like it would on Venus. In this case, Venus's thick atmosphere works in our favour for a city in the clouds. So no, Earth is not more workable

Certainly more workable than trying to build entire structures on Mars.
Since when is building in the sky more workable than building on the ground? ???

Transporting of materials is easier to get to Venus. Solar power is more plentiful on Venus. Gravity is better for our bodies on Venus. At the cloud tops, atmospheric pressure is closer to Earth than anywhere else in the solar system. Why do you need a structure 'on the ground'?

You could 'build' the structure on Earth and fly it to the Venusian clouds. It's a balloon. The size to pack it would be small. Or just launch many 'blimp' like ships from Earth to Venus. Most of the ship itself could be the habitat

With Mars, you actually need to transport many tonnes of materials to build the infrastructure.
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Pezevenk

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2020, 09:51:18 AM »
Venus is terrible for settlement. It's, like, the second worse place after the gas giants.

Cloud cities. Not a joke, actually workable. Certainly more workable than trying to build entire structures on Mars. Keep in mind, death is assured exposed to Mars as it is on Venus so both planets you need protection. Is there really a difference for the people inside between a giant balloon sailing in the Venusian atmosphere as opposed to a biodome on Mars?
Yes. First of all because generally cooling something is much harder than making it warmer. Also because arguably building a floating cloud city is harder than a simple biodome, it's harder to get to and from a balloon city than something on the ground, and I don't know how well the balloons will fare in an atmosphere that hot and acidic for a prolonged time.

You could send balloons to Venus and it would probably be a good way to send people there but you couldn't make it into a colony any time soon. It would probably be easier than that to colonise the moon.
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Heiwa

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2020, 10:03:00 AM »
I am surprised that Elon Musk, Tesla/SpaceX CEO is not promoting trips to Venus. His Falcon rockets can send anyone to Venus in no time as long as you pay him, he says. But Elon is only focusing on Mars. Much better is of course a quick trip to the Moon that is not so far away. But one question remains. Has SpaceX rocket enough fuel to go to the Moon?

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Shifter

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2020, 11:17:34 AM »
Venus is terrible for settlement. It's, like, the second worse place after the gas giants.

Cloud cities. Not a joke, actually workable. Certainly more workable than trying to build entire structures on Mars. Keep in mind, death is assured exposed to Mars as it is on Venus so both planets you need protection. Is there really a difference for the people inside between a giant balloon sailing in the Venusian atmosphere as opposed to a biodome on Mars?
Yes. First of all because generally cooling something is much harder than making it warmer. Also because arguably building a floating cloud city is harder than a simple biodome, it's harder to get to and from a balloon city than something on the ground, and I don't know how well the balloons will fare in an atmosphere that hot and acidic for a prolonged time.

You could send balloons to Venus and it would probably be a good way to send people there but you couldn't make it into a colony any time soon. It would probably be easier than that to colonise the moon.

Well on Venus there would be less of an energy concern so cooling something may end up being easier through abundance of energy. You dont have to cool too big a system. I imagine people would still be wearing protective suits. The temperature you would be dealing with would be far better than what a fire fighter has to deal with.

As for the sulfuric acid problem, the link suggested that was an easy fix. Teflon.

The one problem with colonising Mars that will be hard to get around is the lower gravity. A fully adult human, grown up on Earth may be able to mitigate some of the challenges that a lower gravity environment has to offer but to be born in that environment? Expect an early death through failure to thrive.

In both environments short of the Earth being entirely written off as a place to live (with its current Goldilocks zone to the sun, geologically active, magnetic field and vast oceans, animal and plant life that's hard to imagine), I guess the only people on Venus and/or Mars would be small scientific teams

I'm intrigued about life being in Venusian clouds though. On Earth we have found life in the most inhospitable places we never thought possible and the clouds of Venus seem pretty friendly by comparison

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markjo

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2020, 11:55:52 AM »
At the cloud tops, atmospheric pressure is closer to Earth than anywhere else in the solar system. Why do you need a structure 'on the ground'?
Because it's a lot harder to fall off of the ground than it is to fall out of the sky.

You could 'build' the structure on Earth and fly it to the Venusian clouds. It's a balloon. The size to pack it would be small. Or just launch many 'blimp' like ships from Earth to Venus. Most of the ship itself could be the habitat

With Mars, you actually need to transport many tonnes of materials to build the infrastructure.
With Mars, you can mine much of the resources that you would need.  With Venus, can't mine the clouds for any useful building materials so you will need to transport every gram of those materials.  Three guess as to which would be more expensive for large scale, long term colonies.
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Shifter

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2020, 12:44:45 PM »
At the cloud tops, atmospheric pressure is closer to Earth than anywhere else in the solar system. Why do you need a structure 'on the ground'?
Because it's a lot harder to fall off of the ground than it is to fall out of the sky.

Why would you leave the safety of the habitat to 'fall out of the sky'. That's like saying it's dangerous to live on Earth because we might fall into the ocean. No ones pretending life on Venus would be luxurious.

You could 'build' the structure on Earth and fly it to the Venusian clouds. It's a balloon. The size to pack it would be small. Or just launch many 'blimp' like ships from Earth to Venus. Most of the ship itself could be the habitat

With Mars, you actually need to transport many tonnes of materials to build the infrastructure.
With Mars, you can mine much of the resources that you would need.  With Venus, can't mine the clouds for any useful building materials so you will need to transport every gram of those materials.  Three guess as to which would be more expensive for large scale, long term colonies.

Well NASA seems to think Venus is a better first candidate to send humans. Or at least they did in 2014 with their HAVOC (High Altitude Venus Operational Concept) mission idea
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/colony-on-venus-2014-12

Venus has a lot going for it for sending humans to. The environment in the clouds is the closest to Earth of any planet or moon in the solar system. I'm sure Mars can end up being a fine planet to support life some day. Just not human life. Or human life 'as you know it'. Humans were designed to thrive in a 1g environment. Imagine the skeletal and muscular structure of a human born on Mars. Yeich. Cant see Mars being viable long term without solving the gravity issue. Human ingenuity may make it so. Perhaps the bio domes can spin like a revolving restaurant on steroids

Also, keep in mind Phobos is set to collide with Mars (or break apart and possible cause many smaller collisions) within the next 50 million years. Hopefully any human settlements will take measures to protect themselves

Until Earth is pushed out of the Goldilocks zone from the suns ever increasing brightness, my guess is, any humans on other planets in our solar system would be nothing more than temporary research outposts.
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markjo

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2020, 01:41:34 PM »
At the cloud tops, atmospheric pressure is closer to Earth than anywhere else in the solar system. Why do you need a structure 'on the ground'?
Because it's a lot harder to fall off of the ground than it is to fall out of the sky.

Why would you leave the safety of the habitat to 'fall out of the sky'. That's like saying it's dangerous to live on Earth because we might fall into the ocean. No ones pretending life on Venus would be luxurious.
I'm referring to your artificial habitat falling out of the sky.  You know, like your ship sinking in the middle of the ocean, only worse.

Well NASA seems to think Venus is a better first candidate to send humans. Or at least they did in 2014 with their HAVOC (High Altitude Venus Operational Concept) mission idea
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/colony-on-venus-2014-12
Germany thought that the Hindenburg was a good idea too.  Sure, airships are a cool idea for exploration and research, but not so much if you're looking to set up a long term, self-sustaining colony.
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Shifter

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2020, 01:47:43 PM »
At the cloud tops, atmospheric pressure is closer to Earth than anywhere else in the solar system. Why do you need a structure 'on the ground'?
Because it's a lot harder to fall off of the ground than it is to fall out of the sky.

Why would you leave the safety of the habitat to 'fall out of the sky'. That's like saying it's dangerous to live on Earth because we might fall into the ocean. No ones pretending life on Venus would be luxurious.
I'm referring to your artificial habitat falling out of the sky.  You know, like your ship sinking in the middle of the ocean, only worse.

Well NASA seems to think Venus is a better first candidate to send humans. Or at least they did in 2014 with their HAVOC (High Altitude Venus Operational Concept) mission idea
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/colony-on-venus-2014-12
Germany thought that the Hindenburg was a good idea too.  Sure, airships are a cool idea for exploration and research, but not so much if you're looking to set up a long term, self-sustaining colony.

Why would the airship sink? As long as you keep it filled with air it would never sink.
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markjo

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2020, 04:01:01 PM »
Why would the airship sink? As long as you keep it filled with air it would never sink.
Why would a ship sink?  As long as you keep the hull in tact it would never sink.

The Venus airships would be filled with helium, and helium has a nasty habit of leaking through just about everything.  Also, accidents happen and Venus is a long way to call for service.

BTW, at 50-70 km where atmospheric pressure is equivalent to that Earth, oxygen and nitrogen are not lifting gasses.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 04:22:45 PM by markjo »
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Shifter

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2020, 08:52:16 PM »
Oxygen and nitrogen are lifting gases on Venus though

Yeah keep the hull of your ship intact. Great advice. Imagine the fear sea fairers have when they go out on the ocean. Especially back in the day with crappy ships and no communication.

No one says living on either planet would be luxury.
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markjo

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2020, 09:09:47 PM »
Oxygen and nitrogen are lifting gases on Venus though
How much bigger would your airship need to be using oxygen and/or nitrogen vs an airship filled with helium?  Do you really want to transport the extra mass if you don't absolutely have to?
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Shifter

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2020, 09:33:22 PM »
Oxygen and nitrogen are lifting gases on Venus though
How much bigger would your airship need to be using oxygen and/or nitrogen vs an airship filled with helium?  Do you really want to transport the extra mass if you don't absolutely have to?

NASA with their HAVOC mission idea seem to think it's workable. You can't have completely helium as you still need to breathe

I suppose you could do an oxygen/helium mix. Why not, as long as the other gas is inert and you're able to breathe the environment. But you don't want to sail too high because the clouds also provide protection from the solar radiation
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markjo

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2020, 06:26:54 AM »
Oxygen and nitrogen are lifting gases on Venus though
How much bigger would your airship need to be using oxygen and/or nitrogen vs an airship filled with helium?  Do you really want to transport the extra mass if you don't absolutely have to?

NASA with their HAVOC mission idea seem to think it's workable. You can't have completely helium as you still need to breathe

I suppose you could do an oxygen/helium mix. Why not, as long as the other gas is inert and you're able to breathe the environment. But you don't want to sail too high because the clouds also provide protection from the solar radiation
Or, you could have the helium in a large bag and the habitat in a gondola slung underneath.  You know, like in pretty much every airship ever built and in the pictures in your source.
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Heiwa

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2020, 02:03:35 AM »
Oxygen and nitrogen are lifting gases on Venus though
How much bigger would your airship need to be using oxygen and/or nitrogen vs an airship filled with helium?  Do you really want to transport the extra mass if you don't absolutely have to?

NASA with their HAVOC mission idea seem to think it's workable. You can't have completely helium as you still need to breathe

I suppose you could do an oxygen/helium mix. Why not, as long as the other gas is inert and you're able to breathe the environment. But you don't want to sail too high because the clouds also provide protection from the solar radiation
Or, you could have the helium in a large bag and the habitat in a gondola slung underneath.  You know, like in pretty much every airship ever built and in the pictures in your source.

Why not send similar things to Jupiter?

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JJA

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Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2020, 05:12:08 AM »
Oxygen and nitrogen are lifting gases on Venus though
How much bigger would your airship need to be using oxygen and/or nitrogen vs an airship filled with helium?  Do you really want to transport the extra mass if you don't absolutely have to?

NASA with their HAVOC mission idea seem to think it's workable. You can't have completely helium as you still need to breathe

I suppose you could do an oxygen/helium mix. Why not, as long as the other gas is inert and you're able to breathe the environment. But you don't want to sail too high because the clouds also provide protection from the solar radiation
Or, you could have the helium in a large bag and the habitat in a gondola slung underneath.  You know, like in pretty much every airship ever built and in the pictures in your source.

Why not send similar things to Jupiter?

We sent probes on parachutes already.

Sending robotic balloons to Jupiter has been proposed. Human habitation would be troublesome due to the intense radiation and temperature extremes, and of course the 500mph storms.

But it's an unlimited source of helium-3 so it might be worth it.