What would change your mind?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4470 on: April 22, 2021, 02:27:14 AM »
Ok wow
We possibly have a new definition for scope.
Not really. It just depends on how you see the word, scope and what you think it means to you.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4471 on: April 22, 2021, 02:28:35 AM »


The following is based on a flat plane. No curve for you to misinterpret.

With the tube 6ft high, the centre of the tube (the red line) would be 6ft high on the tree :-
We can also see the top of the tree 24 ft above the red line


And here with the tube 24ft high, the centre of the tube (the red line) would be 24ft high on the tree :-
We can also see the bottom of the tree 24 ft below the red line

The ground is still visible as we can still see the base of the tree.

Looking out to sea creates a THEORETICAL horizon line.

There is no line.

The ground would not be visible through a tube set at 6 feet in height

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4472 on: April 22, 2021, 02:54:42 AM »
Ok wow
We possibly have a new definition for scope.


Can we attempt to differentiate scope from field of view?

Is scope meaning that a lense inside a tube (exterior from the naked eye)?
Or even a lense in general tube/ notube?
Scope ....FOV.....you choose.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4473 on: April 22, 2021, 03:16:44 AM »
There are no contradictions.
There you go deflecting yet again.

Again if you want to claim there are no contradictions how about you just answer the questions provided?
As they clearly show your contradictions.
You refuse to answer, because they will again show that you have been contradicting yourself.

You are looking through a level tube, 1 inch in diameter, and 10 inches long, towards an object 1 mile away.
How far below the tube can you see at this 1 mile distance and WHY?
If there is a tree that has its base 6 ft below the line straight from the tube, and passing through the tube level, can you see the base of the tree?
Note this is referring to the physical size of the object, not any compressed size by your vision.

Is it like you first claimed, where you claimed you can only see the 1 inch of tube tube?
Or if the tube is 6 ft above the ground can you magically see that 6 ft, but no more?
Or something else?

How do you determine just how much you can see?


And as for your actual posts showing the contradiction, how about this one, and the posts around it/related to it, where you clearly admit that you can see the ground even though it is below the tube. And this includes that the tube is 6 ft above the ground and the base of the tree is thus 6 ft below the tube.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=87127.msg2312325#msg2312325

Yet in this post:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=87127.msg2313712#msg2313712
You lie and claim you haven't already admitted that.

You refuse to answer the simple question because it will either take us straight back to the tree where you will then contradict yourself yet again, or you will directly expose your contradiction.

Now again, answer the simple question.
You have a tube that is 10 inches long and 1 inch in diameter.
It is level. You are looking directly through it with your eye at the middle of the tube height wise. How far below the tube can be seen at 1 mile?
Can you see the base of a tree at 1 mile distance, if you are on a flat surface, with the tube 6 ft above this surface, and the base of the tree also on this flat surface and thus 6 ft below the eye line?

I have no need to give up.
Because unlike some people, you don't care about the truth and are quite happy to continually lie and use whatever dishonest BS you can to prop up your irrational hatred of the globe.
If you had any shred of honesty you would have given up long ago and admitted you were wrong.

The ground would not be visible through a tube set at 6 feet in height
So we go straight back to the tree. Are you claiming we cannot see the base of the tree 1 mile away over flat ground, through a level tube 6 ft above the ground?

Even though you have previously stated that you have never had an issue with that?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4474 on: April 22, 2021, 03:18:24 AM »
There are no contradictions.
There you go deflecting yet again.

No deflecting here.
All I see is attacking from you in your frenzied state.
You need to calm down.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4475 on: April 22, 2021, 03:43:38 AM »
No deflecting here.
Is that why yet again you refuse to answer a simple question and instead just insult me?
This insults are a pathetic deflection.

Again, if there was no deflecting you would have answered.
You need to stop deflecting and actually start addressing the questions that have been asked.

Again:
You have a tube that is 10 inches long and 1 inch in diameter.
It is level. You are looking directly through it with your eye at the middle of the tube height wise. How far below the tube can be seen at 1 mile?
Can you see the base of a tree at 1 mile distance, if you are on a flat surface, with the tube 6 ft above this surface, and the base of the tree also on this flat surface and thus 6 ft below the eye line?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4476 on: April 22, 2021, 05:00:49 AM »
Quote
Wide view of an area.
The 'scope' is the area we can see is it?  I take my telescope (or scope) and I use three eyepieces with it.  Now I point it (the 'scope') to the Moon and with the highest power eyepiece (shortest focal length) I can see a small region of the lower half (as we look at it) of the Moons disk. Next I take the medium power eyepiece and I can see a larger region of the lower half of the lunar disk. I would say my field of view is larger. Finally I take the low power eyepiece and now I can see the whole of the Moons disk through the telescope. So the low power eyepiece or longest focal length eyepiece gives me the biggest field of view and hence the best eyepiece for scanning or searching.

I would call the telescope itself the 'scope' while the area of sky I can see through the eyepiece is my field of view.  The low power eyepiece gives me a wider view (scope?) than the higher power eyepiece.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 05:03:43 AM by Solarwind »

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4477 on: April 22, 2021, 05:20:00 AM »
Ok wow
We possibly have a new definition for scope.
Not really. It just depends on how you see the word, scope and what you think it means to you.

Scope
Telescope
Sniper scope
The thing that isq used to increase ability to see things from very far away using lenses.
Very real things and commonly known and understiod by regular people when spoken in the context of seeing things far away.

As opposed to the definition of say the "scope of supply chain" where there is a vast majority of items, but my portion willl be limited few items i am able or required.

Be Like a normal human who uses language to communicate.
If i called you a dumbass, all here would consider this an insult, but ahaaa ive changed the meaning.
And it will take you all 50pg of back and forthing until i reveal my changed meaning.









Just kidding.
It means exactly what a google search will tell you it menas.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 05:35:24 AM by Themightykabool »

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4478 on: April 22, 2021, 07:12:46 AM »
No deflecting here.
Is that why yet again you refuse to answer a simple question and instead just insult me?
This insults are a pathetic deflection.


The insulting is coming from you.
Anyone will tell you I'm answering.
The problem you have is in accepting the answer whether you believe it or not.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4479 on: April 22, 2021, 07:14:32 AM »


The following is based on a flat plane. No curve for you to misinterpret.

With the tube 6ft high, the centre of the tube (the red line) would be 6ft high on the tree :-
We can also see the top of the tree 24 ft above the red line



And here with the tube 24ft high, the centre of the tube (the red line) would be 24ft high on the tree :-
We can also see the bottom of the tree 24 ft below the red line

The ground is still visible as we can still see the base of the tree.

Looking out to sea creates a THEORETICAL horizon line.

There is no line.

The ground would not be visible through a tube set at 6 feet in height
So we're back to this :-

The tree just floating in the sky, and you recommend that people test this for themselves? Just how accurate do I have to be? I can't get it to work. I must be within an inch of 6ft and have checked with two different levels, but I just can't make the ground disappear. Please, what am I doing wrong?

And i'm confused

You're confused because you deliberately confuse yourself.


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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4480 on: April 22, 2021, 07:16:38 AM »
Quote
Wide view of an area.
The 'scope' is the area we can see is it?  I take my telescope (or scope) and I use three eyepieces with it.  Now I point it (the 'scope') to the Moon and with the highest power eyepiece (shortest focal length) I can see a small region of the lower half (as we look at it) of the Moons disk. Next I take the medium power eyepiece and I can see a larger region of the lower half of the lunar disk. I would say my field of view is larger. Finally I take the low power eyepiece and now I can see the whole of the Moons disk through the telescope. So the low power eyepiece or longest focal length eyepiece gives me the biggest field of view and hence the best eyepiece for scanning or searching.

I would call the telescope itself the 'scope' while the area of sky I can see through the eyepiece is my field of view.  The low power eyepiece gives me a wider view (scope?) than the higher power eyepiece.
Yep the telescope is a scope and yes yo can see the light magnified within that scope.

Now go and do it with a tube.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4481 on: April 22, 2021, 07:18:04 AM »
Ok wow
We possibly have a new definition for scope.
Not really. It just depends on how you see the word, scope and what you think it means to you.

Scope
Telescope
Sniper scope
The thing that isq used to increase ability to see things from very far away using lenses.
Very real things and commonly known and understiod by regular people when spoken in the context of seeing things far away.

As opposed to the definition of say the "scope of supply chain" where there is a vast majority of items, but my portion willl be limited few items i am able or required.

Be Like a normal human who uses language to communicate.
If i called you a dumbass, all here would consider this an insult, but ahaaa ive changed the meaning.
And it will take you all 50pg of back and forthing until i reveal my changed meaning.









Just kidding.
It means exactly what a google search will tell you it menas.
Feel free to call me what you want in any language you see fit to call me.
I promise I won't cry.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4482 on: April 22, 2021, 07:18:45 AM »
No deflecting here.
Is that why yet again you refuse to answer a simple question and instead just insult me?
This insults are a pathetic deflection.


The insulting is coming from you.
Anyone will tell you I'm answering.
The problem you have is in accepting the answer whether you believe it or not.


Youre not answering
Youre deflecting and dodging.


And the insulting is coming from me and bored.
Maybe you feel insulted that jackb is calling you a liar?



Maybe instead of pleading for acceptance why not provide answers?

The eyeball has a retina and works like a pinhole camera and the angles created by the light entering the eye explains why close = big and far = small.

Yes?

Good

It happens in the eye and tu-tubes doesnt change the fact the eyeball is an eyeball.




Words used are as defined in the conventional sense Unless i suffix a word with ***denP, everyone should be under that assumption the traditional use of a word is being used.
If you are confused as to the meaning of a word, feel free to google the meaning.
If you choose to use your own definiton, please let us know and use the suffix moniker ***denP

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4483 on: April 22, 2021, 07:32:47 AM »
No deflecting here.
Is that why yet again you refuse to answer a simple question and instead just insult me?
This insults are a pathetic deflection.


The insulting is coming from you.
Anyone will tell you I'm answering.
The problem you have is in accepting the answer whether you believe it or not.


Youre not answering
Youre deflecting and dodging.


And the insulting is coming from me and bored.
Maybe you feel insulted that jackb is calling you a liar?



Maybe instead of pleading for acceptance why not provide answers?

The eyeball has a retina and works like a pinhole camera and the angles created by the light entering the eye explains why close = big and far = small.

Yes?

Good

It happens in the eye and tu-tubes doesnt change the fact the eyeball is an eyeball.




Words used are as defined in the conventional sense Unless i suffix a word with ***denP, everyone should be under that assumption the traditional use of a word is being used.
If you are confused as to the meaning of a word, feel free to google the meaning.
If you choose to use your own definiton, please let us know and use the suffix moniker ***denP
You'll get what you're given and you'll like it or lump it.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4484 on: April 22, 2021, 08:07:05 AM »
glad we're working together.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4485 on: April 22, 2021, 09:49:53 AM »

The following is based on a flat plane. No curve for you to misinterpret.

With the tube 6ft high, the centre of the tube (the red line) would be 6ft high on the tree :-
We can also see the top of the tree 24 ft above the red line



And here with the tube 24ft high, the centre of the tube (the red line) would be 24ft high on the tree :-
We can also see the bottom of the tree 24 ft below the red line

The ground is still visible as we can still see the base of the tree.

The ground would not be visible through a tube set at 6 feet in height
So we're back to this :-

The tree just floating in the sky, and you recommend that people test this for themselves? Just how accurate do I have to be? I can't get it to work. I must be within an inch of 6ft and have checked with two different levels, but I just can't make the ground disappear. Please, what am I doing wrong?
Go and set up your foot long tube at around 6 feet and level it.
Now look through it and tell me what you see.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4486 on: April 22, 2021, 11:50:13 AM »
Quote
Now go and do it with a tube.
What? Look at the Moon with a tube.  OK give me a length and diameter of the tube you would like me to use. How will the Moon look any different looking through a tube compared to looking at it without the tube. A simple tube has no magnifying property so the Moon will look exactly the same size.

I could just take the lenses out of the telescope I guess.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 11:51:53 AM by Solarwind »

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4487 on: April 22, 2021, 02:30:08 PM »
The insulting is coming from you.
Says the one saying I am getting worked up into a frenzy, and repeatedly acting like I'm an imbecile that can't understand quite simple stuff, using those insult (and others) to yet again ignore the simple questions which show your contradiction.

Pointing out your contradictions is not an insult.
Exposing your lies about these contradictions is not an insult.
Exposing your dishonesty is not an insult.

Anyone will tell you I'm answering.
The problem you have is in accepting the answer whether you believe it or not.
No, they wouldn't. Again, you were asked simple questions, and you didn't answer.

Yes, you have some of them before, but the problem is that you continually contradict yourself.

If you were answering you would have told us what the maximum height below the tube an object can be to be seen at 1 mile distance and why.
You would have told us if we could see the ground at the base of a tree which is 6 ft below eye level.
You would have told us if we could see an object if it was 6 ft 1 inch below eye level.
You would have told us what magic stops the RE from being seen.
And plenty more.

The simple fact is you know you cannot honestly and consistently answer as it will expose your lie, so you just use whatever dishonest BS you can to avoid answering.

You're confused because you deliberately confuse yourself.
No, he is "confused" because you repeatedly contradict yourself.

You stated that you can see the ground, and even went so far as lying by claiming you never had an issue with that.
But then you go back and contradict yourself and claim you can't see the ground.

So people are "confused" because you repeatedly contradict yourself.
In order to attack the globe, you spout pure garbage, which is easily shown to be garbage. This results in people asking about simple things like trees in the distance, which then requires you to change your tune to avoid appearing completely insane, where you directly contradict your prior claims which you used to pretend the RE doesn't match reality, as that would show your claims don't match reality either.
But then when it comes back to a RE, you again contradict yourself, rejecting reality and rejecting what you admitted with regards to a tree because if you don't, there is no problem for the RE.

Perhaps if you were consistent rather than repeatedly contradicting yourself people would seem less "confused"?

You can start by answering the simple question, if you have a tube, 1 inch in a diameter and 10 inches long, with this tube level and you looking through the tube with your eye at the midpoint of the tube's height and directly against the end of the tube, how far below the tube can an object at 1 mile distance be, in order to still be visible through the tube?

Can you just simply and honestly answer this trivial question?

If you weren't repeatedly contradicting yourself and needing to change the answer depending on what was being discussed you would have no problem with answering this question, especially if you had already answered it like you claim.

So are you going to answer it, or will you continue with the dishonest BS?

Go and set up your foot long tube at around 6 feet and level it.
Now look through it and tell me what you see.
That post was explicitly talking about a FE. We live on a RE, so we can't do that.
Also, why bother going down this dishonest path yet again.

JJA did that and you just dismissed what he provided as fake and called him a liar, all because it showed you were wrong.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4488 on: April 22, 2021, 09:28:34 PM »
Quote
Now go and do it with a tube.
What? Look at the Moon with a tube.  OK give me a length and diameter of the tube you would like me to use. How will the Moon look any different looking through a tube compared to looking at it without the tube. A simple tube has no magnifying property so the Moon will look exactly the same size.

I could just take the lenses out of the telescope I guess.
I didn't mention any moon.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4489 on: April 22, 2021, 09:35:17 PM »
The insulting is coming from you.
Says the one saying I am getting worked up into a frenzy, and repeatedly acting like I'm an imbecile that can't understand quite simple stuff, using those insult (and others) to yet again ignore the simple questions which show your contradiction.

You're far from an imbecile. you actually seem like a really good person who seems to be ardently in favour of acceptance of anything official and extreme in your denial of anything that questions it.

It makes you appear frenzied at times but I have no ill will towards you.
I certainly don't call you stupid or an imbecile or anything of the sort.


I say you don't understand my side because it appears you do not. That's it.
You taking that as an insult is your issue but you are the one throwing out the insults.

But don't get me wrong. You are welcome to do as you wish, with me, verbally or in type. I will simply just call you out on it when you start projecting, which you do on a regular basis and still attribute that, to me, which is a double projecting thingy.  ;D

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4490 on: April 22, 2021, 09:37:15 PM »
Go and set up your foot long tube at around 6 feet and level it.
Now look through it and tell me what you see.
Around 6ft? Doesn't it have to be exactly 6ft or the magic doesn't work? Why have we now moved to a 1 foot long tube? How much difference does the tube length make? Obviously you want the tube as long as possible, why not ask us to use a tube 10 foot long as then at least some of your nonsense makes sense.
5 feet or 4 feet. How tall are you?

Just set it to your eye line.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4491 on: April 23, 2021, 04:17:48 AM »
You're far from an imbecile. you actually seem like a really good person who seems to be ardently in favour of acceptance of anything official and extreme in your denial of anything that questions it.
And there you go with more insults to deflect from the simple questions.

I certainly don't call you stupid or an imbecile or anything of the sort.
While you do not directly say that, your accusations imply it.
You repeatedly act like I am too stupid to understand your claims.

Again, the questions you have been asked are extremely simple. Why do you continually deflect rather than answering them?

If you have a tube, 1 inch in a diameter and 10 inches long, with this tube level and you looking through the tube with your eye at the midpoint of the tube's height and directly against the end of the tube, how far below the tube can an object at 1 mile distance be, in order to still be visible through the tube?
Can you see the base of a tree at 1 mile distance, if the base of the tree is 6 ft below the level of the tube?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4492 on: April 23, 2021, 05:58:40 AM »
Go and set up your foot long tube at around 6 feet and level it.
Now look through it and tell me what you see.
Around 6ft? Doesn't it have to be exactly 6ft or the magic doesn't work? Why have we now moved to a 1 foot long tube? How much difference does the tube length make? Obviously you want the tube as long as possible, why not ask us to use a tube 10 foot long as then at least some of your nonsense makes sense.
5 feet or 4 feet. How tall are you?

Just set it to your eye line.


So simple

Now
Please
Draw or explain how the same horizon rises to the INDIVIDUALS eyelevel when the 5ft person is on top of a 100ft tower or 1,000ft mountain.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 06:35:59 AM by Themightykabool »

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4493 on: April 23, 2021, 06:27:19 AM »
So re your reply #4489, what exactly do you want me to do with this tube?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4494 on: April 24, 2021, 01:39:19 AM »
Go and set up your foot long tube at around 6 feet and level it.
Now look through it and tell me what you see.
Around 6ft? Doesn't it have to be exactly 6ft or the magic doesn't work? Why have we now moved to a 1 foot long tube? How much difference does the tube length make? Obviously you want the tube as long as possible, why not ask us to use a tube 10 foot long as then at least some of your nonsense makes sense.
5 feet or 4 feet. How tall are you?

Just set it to your eye line.


So simple

Now
Please
Draw or explain how the same horizon rises to the INDIVIDUALS eyelevel when the 5ft person is on top of a 100ft tower or 1,000ft mountain.
I've explained so many times.

The horizon does not rise to the eye level.
The horizon (theoretical) line is your very own eye converging light and shade over a level distance, meaning below and above atmosphere meet.
Where they meet is the difference is light and shade.
Generally above light takes precedence over below, in normal atmospheric natural light.


You are not seeing ground in a physical aspect, nor sea. You see dense atmosphere above it and less dense atmosphere from the sky that both meet to your eye as you look out horizontally level.


It creates a theoretical line.

This would not happen if you were looking horizontally over a globe. You lose  the shade below to be replaced by a washout sky, leaving no line, at all.......just sky.....assuming you could do this on a magical globe, which we can't, which is why we see the horizon in the first place whether we look out at sea level or up in a plane or a mountain top........etc.



Convergence of light and shade to the level looking eye over distance.
As simple as that.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4495 on: April 24, 2021, 01:42:58 AM »
So re your reply #4489, what exactly do you want me to do with this tube?


You could do what JJA failed to do if you want to play a real honest evaluation.

If you don't want to do it then don't give this post any attention, at all. Just overlook it and let's not argue it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4496 on: April 24, 2021, 02:41:37 AM »
So re your reply #4489, what exactly do you want me to do with this tube?


You could do what JJA failed to do if you want to play a real honest evaluation.

If you don't want to do it then don't give this post any attention, at all. Just overlook it and let's not argue it.

Draw the man smaller.
Feel free to do it yourself if he intimidates you.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4497 on: April 24, 2021, 02:59:03 AM »
This would not happen if you were looking horizontally over a globe.
You keep repeating this same pathetic lie, but you are yet to justify it at all.
On a globe, you will see to the actual horizon for your location. This is a real, physical horizon, not just some effect of perspective or your nonsense gradient BS.

You are yet to explain what magic you think prevents us from seeing the globe.
The previous excuse you tried, you have admitted is wrong, but you now deny that.

Likewise, you dodge trivial questions which show you are spouting crap.

Again:
If you have a tube, 1 inch in a diameter and 10 inches long, with this tube level and you looking through the tube with your eye at the midpoint of the tube's height and directly against the end of the tube, how far below the tube can an object at 1 mile distance be, in order to still be visible through the tube?
Can you see the base of a tree at 1 mile distance, if the base of the tree is 6 ft below the level of the tube?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4498 on: April 24, 2021, 03:06:43 AM »
This would not happen if you were looking horizontally over a globe.
You keep repeating this same pathetic lie, but you are yet to justify it at all.
On a globe, you will see to the actual horizon for your location. This is a real, physical horizon, not just some effect of perspective or your nonsense gradient BS.

You think so because you believe you're living on a globe. I wouldn't expect you to argue for anything else.
You'll only change that stance when you question the globe, which I do not believe will be anytime soon, if ever.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4499 on: April 24, 2021, 04:17:00 AM »
Go and set up your foot long tube at around 6 feet and level it.
Now look through it and tell me what you see.
Around 6ft? Doesn't it have to be exactly 6ft or the magic doesn't work? Why have we now moved to a 1 foot long tube? How much difference does the tube length make? Obviously you want the tube as long as possible, why not ask us to use a tube 10 foot long as then at least some of your nonsense makes sense.
5 feet or 4 feet. How tall are you?

Just set it to your eye line.


So simple

Now
Please
Draw or explain how the same horizon rises to the INDIVIDUALS eyelevel when the 5ft person is on top of a 100ft tower or 1,000ft mountain.
I've explained so many times.

The horizon does not rise to the eye level.
The horizon (theoretical) line is your very own eye converging light and shade over a level distance, meaning below and above atmosphere meet.
Where they meet is the difference is light and shade.
Generally above light takes precedence over below, in normal atmospheric natural light.


You are not seeing ground in a physical aspect, nor sea. You see dense atmosphere above it and less dense atmosphere from the sky that both meet to your eye as you look out horizontally level.


It creates a theoretical line.

This would not happen if you were looking horizontally over a globe. You lose  the shade below to be replaced by a washout sky, leaving no line, at all.......just sky.....assuming you could do this on a magical globe, which we can't, which is why we see the horizon in the first place whether we look out at sea level or up in a plane or a mountain top........etc.



Convergence of light and shade to the level looking eye over distance.
As simple as that.


What?
The horizon is light atmoshphere on dark atmosphere?