What would change your mind?

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4440 on: April 18, 2021, 02:07:01 AM »
Play games.
The eyeball behaves just like a pinhole camera.

No one ever said scope except for you.

The tube limits the field of view, but, the the limited field of view is still there and enoigh, at a certain distance, to see ground.
You chose rhe wrong tube and shouldve used a drinking straw.
You obiously realized this after jja and since inteoduced a tu-tube setup in a garbage attempt to further limit the fov.
Not our fault that youre not smart.
It's not my fault you can't seem to grasp what's been said and also, you've never performed the simple experiment yourself in any honest way if you're arguing against what I've said.

What cant be grasp is that the eyeball behaves like a pinhole camera and explains why far = small.

Unless you have a different diagram to go along with yoyr words of "fluted demagnification of reflected compression", i think all of the biological world that has an eyeball will disagree with you.


But Feel free to educate us.
I've never mentioned fluted compression.
By all means make stuff up but you get nowhere doing it.

Sorry
I thought you did.
Feel free to do everyhting minus the flute busienss then

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4441 on: April 18, 2021, 04:18:00 AM »

I am honestly and accurately stating your position.
Your entire argument was based upon claiming that because the ground is below the tube, it can't be seen.
Yes and I'm basing it on your global mindset.
No, you are basing it on pure fantasy.

With a "global mindset", you would accept the fact that you can see the ground.

Once you look through a tube you see no ground beneath your tube end......if your tube is set up level.
This is your outright lie you are yet to defend.
Again, the only attempts you have made is by acting like because the ground is below the tube, it can't be seen.
But again, you have admitted that is wrong and that you can see things below a tube.

So stop with the pathetic deflections, stop just repeating the same pathetic lies and start actually addressing the issues in an honest and rational manner.

All you've done and continually do with anything, is twist it all to fit the narrative you abide by.
There you go with more pathetic lies.

All I have done, is repeatedly exposed your lies, using simple logic to show that you are wrong.
All you have done is repeatedly lie and contradict yourself, twisting back on forth on if you can see an object below the tube.

What you certainly haven't done is explained why you shouldn't be able to see the ground through a level tube on a RE or a slight downwards slope, when you can see the ground on a "flat" surface.

Likewise, you certainly haven't answered any of the simple questions which were made to expose this dishonesty of yours.

Again, why shouldn't we be able to see the ground on a RE or downwards slope, when looking through a level tube?

Again, you accept that we can see the ground even when it is 6 ft below the level tube.
Can we see the ground if it is 6 ft 1 inch below the level tube? If we can't, WHY NOT?

And regardless of if you claim we can or can't, just where is the line drawn?
How far below the tube must an object be in order to no longer be visible?

Can you actually address any of these?
Or can you only continue to repeat the same pathetic lies and continue with the same pathetic deflection.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4442 on: April 18, 2021, 09:27:40 PM »
With a "global mindset", you would accept the fact that you can see the ground.

Absolutely not.
I've been trying to tell you this for long enough but you go into twist mode, once again.
You'll get nowhere acting like you do, in a massive frenzy.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4443 on: April 18, 2021, 10:57:07 PM »
But we can see the ground on a globe because :-


You wouldn't. Not through the tube I mentioned.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4444 on: April 19, 2021, 01:31:19 AM »
With a "global mindset", you would accept the fact that you can see the ground.

Absolutely not.
I've been trying to tell you this for long enough but you go into twist mode, once again.
The problem is all you are doing is telling, without any justification at all.
As for twisting, that would be you repeatedly.

Yet again, rather than try to justify your claim, you just repeat the same lies and deflections.

Again, where is the justification for your claim?

Again, how far below the eye line would an object at 1 mile distance be visible?

You have already admitted 6 ft can be. Can 6 ft 1 inch be?
If not, WHY?
Just where do you think the limit is and WHY?

Can you actually address this massive issue with your blatant lie, or can you just repeat the same pathetic lie to pretend there is a problem with the RE?


But we can see the ground on a globe because :-
You wouldn't. Not through the tube I mentioned.
That is just your outright lie, which you are yet to justify in any way.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 01:34:27 AM by JackBlack »

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4445 on: April 20, 2021, 08:12:12 AM »
So let me get this straight... You are seriously suggesting that you can prove the shape of the entire Earth beyond any doubt whatsoever simply by looking through a 1" diameter tube placed level 6' off the ground are you?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4446 on: April 20, 2021, 08:32:33 AM »
With a "global mindset", you would accept the fact that you can see the ground.

Absolutely not.
I've been trying to tell you this for long enough but you go into twist mode, once again.
You'll get nowhere acting like you do, in a massive frenzy.



with the ball earth gently sloping away, the backside will at some point become un-visible (***not counting refraction).
just like any other object you can't magically see the backside of it when staring at the front (without use of mirrors).

so your premise is flawed, as pointed out to you many times, that if you had put your drawing to scale, the radius is soooooo minor that it would be nearly undiscernable.
try it
i dare you to use any kind of software to draw a circle of diameter 12,000,000part with a view point of 1part at the surface.
try it out.
circles and triangles.
no "indoctrination" reuqired.
just plain ol' geometry.
try it out.
post a picture.

just circles and triangles.
feel free.
maybe bored or jja can help you, unless you feel they are distrustful, then by all means post your own.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4447 on: April 20, 2021, 08:33:19 AM »
But we can see the ground on a globe because :-


You wouldn't. Not through the tube I mentioned.


prove it
post your picture

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4448 on: April 20, 2021, 08:50:31 AM »
So let me get this straight... You are seriously suggesting that you can prove the shape of the entire Earth beyond any doubt whatsoever simply by looking through a 1" diameter tube placed level 6' off the ground are you?

no

tu-tubes, 5ft apart, with a vertical plumb line.

pay attention.

he keeps telling us to pay attention because of people like you.

seriously.

it's not difficult.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4449 on: April 20, 2021, 10:08:49 AM »
So let me get this straight... You are seriously suggesting that you can prove the shape of the entire Earth beyond any doubt whatsoever simply by looking through a 1" diameter tube placed level 6' off the ground are you?
Nope.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4450 on: April 20, 2021, 12:40:48 PM »
So what are you trying to prove with this tube business then?

Since what you can see through a 1" tube placed 6' from the ground depends very much on the local relief and terrain of our individual surroundings everyone is going to get different results. So I don't see what anyone is trying to prove. If I look through the tube on level ground I will see one thing (the ground included) if I look through the tube on say a 30 degree downward slope I will see something else (the ground not included). I know that because I got a tube from some kitchen paper towel, mounted it on a tripod and then placed a spirit level on the tube. Whatever I see doesn't provide any evidence for whether we live on a globe or not. If it did it would have been documented during antiquity.

It's not as if tubes are a new invention is it.  They have been around for as long as human beings have.

BTW Sceptimatic - do you know the difference between the terms cropped and compressed?

« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 12:56:12 PM by Solarwind »

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4451 on: April 20, 2021, 02:46:07 PM »
So let me get this straight... You are seriously suggesting that you can prove the shape of the entire Earth beyond any doubt whatsoever simply by looking through a 1" diameter tube placed level 6' off the ground are you?
Nope.
Really?
Because you kept claiming that this blatant lie of yours is how we "know" we aren't on a globe.
That would mean it disproves the RE, beyond any doubt.

Fortunately for reality, all that is is your pathetic blatant lie which you still refuse to defend, where you still refuse to answer basic questions which expose it as a lie.

Again, you have admitted that we can see an object 6 ft below the eye line. Can we see an object 6 ft 1 inch below?
Regardless of if that is yes or no, just what is the cut off?

What if instead of being mounted 6 ft above Earth we mount it 10 ft above Earth. Can we see the ground 10 ft below then?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4452 on: April 20, 2021, 09:20:04 PM »


Again, you have admitted that we can see an object 6 ft below the eye line. Can we see an object 6 ft 1 inch below?
Regardless of if that is yes or no, just what is the cut off?

What if instead of being mounted 6 ft above Earth we mount it 10 ft above Earth. Can we see the ground 10 ft below then?
I haven't admitted anything of the sort, so why waste your time?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4453 on: April 21, 2021, 01:49:06 AM »


Again, you have admitted that we can see an object 6 ft below the eye line. Can we see an object 6 ft 1 inch below?
Regardless of if that is yes or no, just what is the cut off?

What if instead of being mounted 6 ft above Earth we mount it 10 ft above Earth. Can we see the ground 10 ft below then?
I haven't admitted anything of the sort, so why waste your time?
So now you are backtracking on what you have said?
Because you have admitted that you can see the ground through the tube if Earth was flat, even though it is 6 ft below the tube.

Remember, that was the entire point of the tree.

So have you now ran out of excuses and will switch back to pretending you can't see the ground at the base of the tree, contradicting yourself yet again?

If not, you have admitted that you CAN see the ground, even when it is 6 ft below the tube.
So for this magical tube of yours, what is the distance which prevents you from seeing the ground?
i.e. how far below the tube, does the ground at a distance of 1 mile need to be, to prevent you from seeing it in the tube?

Can you just directly answer a simple question, without all the dishonest BS?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4454 on: April 21, 2021, 03:37:32 AM »


Again, you have admitted that we can see an object 6 ft below the eye line. Can we see an object 6 ft 1 inch below?
Regardless of if that is yes or no, just what is the cut off?

What if instead of being mounted 6 ft above Earth we mount it 10 ft above Earth. Can we see the ground 10 ft below then?
I haven't admitted anything of the sort, so why waste your time?


Back to "nuh uhs" and not answering or addressing actual points.
Playing semantics and word games wont help you.

Youve been told how eyeballs work.
Eyeballs have nothing to do with denP.

Youve been told how geometry works.
Circles and triangles have nothing to do with denP.

Time to either educate us or give up on this thread.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4455 on: April 21, 2021, 10:31:02 AM »


Again, you have admitted that we can see an object 6 ft below the eye line. Can we see an object 6 ft 1 inch below?
Regardless of if that is yes or no, just what is the cut off?

What if instead of being mounted 6 ft above Earth we mount it 10 ft above Earth. Can we see the ground 10 ft below then?
I haven't admitted anything of the sort, so why waste your time?
So now you are backtracking on what you have said?
Because you have admitted that you can see the ground through the tube if Earth was flat, even though it is 6 ft below the tube.

Remember, that was the entire point of the tree.

So have you now ran out of excuses and will switch back to pretending you can't see the ground at the base of the tree, contradicting yourself yet again?

If not, you have admitted that you CAN see the ground, even when it is 6 ft below the tube.
So for this magical tube of yours, what is the distance which prevents you from seeing the ground?
i.e. how far below the tube, does the ground at a distance of 1 mile need to be, to prevent you from seeing it in the tube?

Can you just directly answer a simple question, without all the dishonest BS?
What you are doing is deliberately mixing it all up.
You need to start being honest.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4456 on: April 21, 2021, 10:32:00 AM »


Again, you have admitted that we can see an object 6 ft below the eye line. Can we see an object 6 ft 1 inch below?
Regardless of if that is yes or no, just what is the cut off?

What if instead of being mounted 6 ft above Earth we mount it 10 ft above Earth. Can we see the ground 10 ft below then?
I haven't admitted anything of the sort, so why waste your time?


Back to "nuh uhs" and not answering or addressing actual points.
Playing semantics and word games wont help you.

Youve been told how eyeballs work.
Eyeballs have nothing to do with denP.

Youve been told how geometry works.
Circles and triangles have nothing to do with denP.

Time to either educate us or give up on this thread.
If you want to give up the thread then do so, or just talk with your forum friends. Don't mind me.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4457 on: April 21, 2021, 02:14:15 PM »
don't act like you haven't given up then.
address the questions.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4458 on: April 21, 2021, 02:20:45 PM »


Its been explained
With a diagram

Keep deflecting.



Or
Time to explain why you think my words mean an introducing of an external scope


Time to say back, in your words, what your understanding of my words means
I seriously don't understand what you're trying to say against what I'm saying.

Explain it like I'm a dummy, or whatever you think.

I said your eye is a pinhole.


You responded with "fluted compression over distance."
 Showing you neither read the words nor looked at the image but instead merely happy to repeat your meaningless word salad.

Then youresponded "is there a scope?"
  Showing once again zero comprehension of the words and picture provided.



So
Very simply

You are an idiot.

what about a pinhole camera and your eyeball is confusing you?
this is how your eye works.


if the picture and the words weren't engouh here're two videos.





Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4459 on: April 21, 2021, 02:38:53 PM »
What you are doing is deliberately mixing it all up.
You need to start being honest.
No, what I am doing is pointing out your repeated contradictions and showing how your position is entirely without merit.
What you are doing is using whatever dishonest BS you can to pretend Earth can't be round, because you can't bring yourself to admit that what we see is consistent with a RE and what is expected on a RE.

After going down the long path regarding the tree, you finally admitted that you can see the ground through the tube, even if the tube is 6 ft above the tube, and lied and said you never had an issue with that.
But your argument for claiming you can't see the ground on a RE relies upon you absolutely not being able to see anything below the level of the tube.
Your position is pathetic and requires you to continually contradict yourself.

It is so pathetic and without merit you need to continually avoid extreme simple questions and instead repeatedly lie by accusing others of dishonesty.
You need to start being honest, sticking to what you have said before rather than outright contradicting it unless you admit you were wrong in the first case; and actually answering these extreme simple questions which show your position is garbage.

So how about you just answer the simple question.
You are looking through a level tube, 1 inch in diameter, and 10 inches long, towards an object 1 mile away.
How far below the tube can you see at this 1 mile distance and WHY?
Note this is referring to the physical size of the object, not any compressed size by your vision.

Is it like you first claimed, where you claimed you can only see the 1 inch of tube tube?
Or if the tube is 6 ft above the ground can you magically see that 6 ft, but no more?
Or something else?

How do you determine just how much you can see?

Unless you can actually address these trivial questions, your position is dishonest, meritless garbage and shows your irrational hatred of the globe.
It shows that your position is not based upon logic and reason, but is just you spouting whatever BS you can think of to attack the globe.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4460 on: April 21, 2021, 09:56:15 PM »
don't act like you haven't given up then.
address the questions.
I have no need to give up.


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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4461 on: April 21, 2021, 09:57:24 PM »


Its been explained
With a diagram

Keep deflecting.



Or
Time to explain why you think my words mean an introducing of an external scope


Time to say back, in your words, what your understanding of my words means
I seriously don't understand what you're trying to say against what I'm saying.

Explain it like I'm a dummy, or whatever you think.

I said your eye is a pinhole.


You responded with "fluted compression over distance."
 Showing you neither read the words nor looked at the image but instead merely happy to repeat your meaningless word salad.

Then youresponded "is there a scope?"
  Showing once again zero comprehension of the words and picture provided.



So
Very simply

You are an idiot.

what about a pinhole camera and your eyeball is confusing you?
this is how your eye works.


if the picture and the words weren't engouh here're two videos.



Nothing is confusing me but you decided to look up something and are now using it in a sort of frenzy.
What are you actually showing against what I'm saying?

Explain it in your own words...nice and simple.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4462 on: April 21, 2021, 10:00:02 PM »
What you are doing is deliberately mixing it all up.
You need to start being honest.
No, what I am doing is pointing out your repeated contradictions and showing how your position is entirely without merit.

There are no contradictions.
You twisting stuff and choosing to confuse yourself, is your issue.

By all means bring up pieces of posts where you think I have contradicted myself and I'll be quite happy to show you where you're mistaken...unless it's just a deliberate act from you, which seems to be the case.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4463 on: April 21, 2021, 10:38:28 PM »
You are shown the tube doesnt compress anything.

Far = small is resultant of angles and the eyeball being a pinhole camera.

Thats it.
Super simple.

Acknowledge its existence.

This is taking way longer than it nesds to.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4464 on: April 21, 2021, 11:52:01 PM »

The following is based on a flat plane. No curve for you to misinterpret.

With the tube 6ft high, the centre of the tube (the red line) would be 6ft high on the tree :-
We can also see the top of the tree 24 ft above the red line


And here with the tube 24ft high, the centre of the tube (the red line) would be 24ft high on the tree :-
We can also see the bottom of the tree 24 ft below the red line

The ground is still visible as we can still see the base of the tree.

And again based on a flat plane:-

If you're honest and want to know the reality then get your basic stuff, which costs nothing.
A kitchen roll tube or a hoover pipe or whatever, similar.
Place a strand of cotton thread over one end, half way.
If you have a tripod or something to rest the roll holder on so you can horizontally level it and also horizontally level your cotton line.
Now look out to sea and see your horizon line meet your cotton line.
Looking out to sea creates a THEORETICAL horizon line.

There is no line.
There is a merging of shades from light or to be a bit more specific, it's a denser to less dense meeting of layers to your level sight.

It creates a pretence of angled view. It does not bring the sea to meet the sky, it converges atmospheric densities in the stacked layers.


You see your theoretical horizon because the sea is flat and the sky concavely covers it and everything else...as in, the dome.


This means the Earth is absolutely not a globe we supposedly walk upon.


Getting back to your argument with the globe. It would always  convexly curve away and down from your level view.

You would not be bringing ground or sea into any equation with this set up.
The tube takes away a scope which creates a wide angled view.
The tube over a downward gradient would omit the ground and leave you viewing anything above it.


I know what I'm saying.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4465 on: April 21, 2021, 11:56:03 PM »
Define scope

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4466 on: April 22, 2021, 12:10:55 AM »
You are shown the tube doesnt compress anything.
I never said the tube did.
I said the tube gives you tunnel vision.
I said distance compresses the view, meaning the light back to your eyes being overcome by the light closer to your eyes.


Quote from: Themightykabool

Far = small is resultant of angles and the eyeball being a pinhole camera.
Your eye creates the angle as an end product. That's it.
The light that's reflected is not angled. Itgives the appearance if being angled because of your eye which acts like a funnel for it.


Quote from: Themightykabool

Thats it.
Super simple.

Acknowledge its existence.

This is taking way longer than it nesds to.
It's taking longer because you don't know what you're trying to say.

*

sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4467 on: April 22, 2021, 12:13:34 AM »

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4468 on: April 22, 2021, 12:15:53 AM »
Ok wow
We possibly have a new definition for scope.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4469 on: April 22, 2021, 12:26:53 AM »
Ok wow
We possibly have a new definition for scope.


Can we attempt to differentiate scope from field of view?

Is scope meaning that a lense inside a tube (exterior from the naked eye)?
Or even a lense in general tube/ notube?