# What would change your mind?

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#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4290 on: April 11, 2021, 01:44:06 AM »
I'm always interested in learning, as long as what I'm learning is based on the truth or a theory that tries to garner a truth.
You mean as long as whatever you are "learning" matches the BS you think is true, whereas if it shows you are wrong, you will reject it and aren't interested in learning at all?
For example, you have no interest in learning that your claim that you can't see the ground is wrong. So you continually dodge questions made to help you learn, by showing the contradiction in your position.

If an object is far enough away horizontally, can you see it even though it is below the tube?
No.
Then how do you see any part of the tree that is below the tube?

For example, in this diagram, do you see the bottom of the distant tree, even though it is well below the level of the tube?

In fact, can you see any part of it outside the 2 parallel black lines marking the height of the tube?
What are you trying to show with this picture and using a tube that is clearly not on the level?
That has already been explained to you.
The tube in this picture is level.
I am asking if you can see the parts of the tree that are below level, providing the lines clearly showing how the light would need to come up from below.

Now how about you stop with the deflection and just answer the question?
You state that even if an object is far enough away horizontally, it can't be seen if it is below the tube.

Are you going to commit to this and state that you cannot see any part of the tree that is below the tube?
Like I said before, what you're showing would not happen.
Again, just directly answer the question.
Forget about the lines in the image as they are just to show the bottom of the tree is below the level of the tube.

The bottom of the tree is BELOW the level of the tube.
So do you claim that because it is below the level of the tube it cannot be seen, regardless of how far away it is?
Get your telescope mind away from the argument and we can re-engage.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4291 on: April 11, 2021, 01:46:48 AM »

Are you of the opinion that you NEED a level tu-tube to compress light to see far aqay things?
Nope.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Are you of the opinion that your eye is NOT a pinhole and your eye is NOT how you see?
I've said many a time that your vision converges to a point.

It's the entire purpose as to why we have a vanishing point.

If you dont need a tube, then why aee you saying the tube compresses the fluted viaion reflection and prevents you from seeing the far away foot of jackbs tree?

Vision converges BECAUSE your eye is a pinhole camera
Yes or no?
I'm not saying the tube compresses anything.
I'm saying your reflected light back to your eye is compressed over distance.
Your tube is simply a tunnel you are looking through.

Get telescopes out of your mind.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4292 on: April 11, 2021, 01:48:44 AM »
You aren't fooling anybody but yourself.  I haven't see you learn a single fact or idea in any of these discussions, all you do is deny, deny, deny.

I have no need to fool anyone.
Argue the points or stay away from replying to me if you think what you think.
It should be easy to do but it seems hard for people like you.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4293 on: April 11, 2021, 01:50:12 AM »
It is very clearly stated

- The eyeball is a pinhole camera
The pinhole accurately shows how sight-distance-things-far-look-small all work.
Yes no?

Nice and simple so I'm under no illusions.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4294 on: April 11, 2021, 01:52:01 AM »

It seems like quite substantial trouble
It seems troubling for you lot.
I'm one against many and I'm easily dealing with it.
Even bored has had to change names to re-enter to back you lot up.

No, I'm definitely not struggling.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4295 on: April 11, 2021, 01:53:26 AM »

The tube itself.
You're thinking on scopes.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4296 on: April 11, 2021, 01:57:58 AM »
There is no scale to the picture. The distance is just a little further than where the tree would be filling the height of your image through the tube.

*Shown assuming the ground cannot be seen

Then move back further until you get this view

*Again not showing the ground as we are waiting for your answer on whether you think it can been seen or not.

Rough math for a 10 inch long tube gives 400 feet.
Yep, this is what you'd see through the tube.

The object (tree) becomes compressed over distance but not by angles.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4297 on: April 11, 2021, 03:30:54 AM »
And if we can see the ground.

Yep, what's the issue?

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4298 on: April 11, 2021, 03:49:57 AM »
And if we can see the ground.

Yep, what's the issue?
No issue. You have finally answered the question of 'can we see the ground below the tree?'.
I never had any issue with it in the first place.

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#### JackBlack

• 15428
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4299 on: April 11, 2021, 04:10:10 AM »
Quote
Again, just directly answer the question.
Forget about the lines in the image as they are just to show the bottom of the tree is below the level of the tube.

The bottom of the tree is BELOW the level of the tube.
So do you claim that because it is below the level of the tube it cannot be seen, regardless of how far away it is?
Get your telescope mind away from the argument and we can re-engage.
There is no telescope mind here.
Just a simple tube and a simple question.
Stop using that as an excuse to dismiss the question which exposes your contradiction.

Telescopes and the like have nothing at all to do with your claim.

Again, you have stated that you CANNOT see anything below the level of the tube.

Are you now going to be consistent and answer if you can see any part of the tree that is BELOW the level of the tube?

I'm one against many and I'm easily dealing with it.
You aren't dealing with anything. You are just burying your head in the sand and ignoring everything that shows you are wrong.

You are struggling so badly, you can't even answer a simple question.

And if we can see the ground.

Yep, what's the issue?
So you admit we can see the ground, even though it is BELOW the tube?

No issue. You have finally answered the question of 'can we see the ground below the tree?'.
I never had any issue with it in the first place.
That was the entire reason the tree was brought up, because you claimed the ground could not be seen through the level tube.
So are you now admitting that claim was wrong and that we can see the ground through a level tree?

#### JJA

• 4510
• Math is math!
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4300 on: April 11, 2021, 04:56:27 AM »
You aren't fooling anybody but yourself.  I haven't see you learn a single fact or idea in any of these discussions, all you do is deny, deny, deny.

I have no need to fool anyone.
Argue the points or stay away from replying to me if you think what you think.
It should be easy to do but it seems hard for people like you.

It's hard to argue the facts when you don't produce any. Where is your experiment to show us how it works?

The only thing hard to do it seems, is you carrying out your own experiment. It's easy for you to claim everyone else is 'duping' you when you can't even perform the experiment yourself to double-check that you're actually right. Wouldn't it be funny if you actually did try it and got the same results as everyone else?

Would you admit it or... just avoid the subject and dodge and evade. Suspiciously like what you are doing.

?

#### Themightykabool

• 5158
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4301 on: April 11, 2021, 05:24:54 AM »
It is very clearly stated

- The eyeball is a pinhole camera
The pinhole accurately shows how sight-distance-things-far-look-small all work.
Yes no?

Nice and simple so I'm under no illusions.

This is amazing.
Its been explained.
For tye 5th time -
What part of it confuses you?

Either state a part that needs clarification or admit youre pathetic and this is your goto deflection

?

#### Themightykabool

• 5158
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4302 on: April 11, 2021, 05:29:34 AM »
And if we can see the ground.

Yep, what's the issue?
No issue. You have finally answered the question of 'can we see the ground below the tree?'.
I never had any issue with it in the first place.

Holycrap?
And he is bringing this as his own evidnece afainst his claims.
Amazing!

See how nice it is to have a picutre to clarfiy your word salad?

?

#### Unconvinced

• 1944
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4303 on: April 11, 2021, 05:55:33 AM »
And if we can see the ground.

Yep, what's the issue?
No issue. You have finally answered the question of 'can we see the ground below the tree?'.
I never had any issue with it in the first place.

Holycrap?
And he is bringing this as his own evidnece afainst his claims.
Amazing!

See how nice it is to have a picutre to clarfiy your word salad?

Scepti finally agrees that we can see the ground.  And it only took 144 pages.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4304 on: April 11, 2021, 06:23:30 AM »

That was the entire reason the tree was brought up, because you claimed the ground could not be seen through the level tube.
So are you now admitting that claim was wrong and that we can see the ground through a level tree?
No, it wasn't.
I never claimed the ground couldn't be seen.
I claimed the ground would not be seen on a gradient which was massively turned into what it is now.

I said the object over distance would be visually compressed.

It's you people who keep twisting it into what you want.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4305 on: April 11, 2021, 06:25:24 AM »
And if we can see the ground.

Yep, what's the issue?
No issue. You have finally answered the question of 'can we see the ground below the tree?'.
I never had any issue with it in the first place.

If an object is far enough away horizontally, can you see it even though it is below the tube?
No.
Why you've used this is a mystery.

This is why I mention how you lot twist things.
You came in under your bored name to try and aid in twisting it all and all you lot do is make it all harder for yourselves.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4306 on: April 11, 2021, 06:26:34 AM »
It also means that we would see this :-

If the tube was much higher.
You wouldn't see the ground if this was your set up.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4307 on: April 11, 2021, 06:27:44 AM »
You aren't fooling anybody but yourself.  I haven't see you learn a single fact or idea in any of these discussions, all you do is deny, deny, deny.

I have no need to fool anyone.
Argue the points or stay away from replying to me if you think what you think.
It should be easy to do but it seems hard for people like you.

It's hard to argue the facts when you don't produce any. Where is your experiment to show us how it works?

The only thing hard to do it seems, is you carrying out your own experiment. It's easy for you to claim everyone else is 'duping' you when you can't even perform the experiment yourself to double-check that you're actually right. Wouldn't it be funny if you actually did try it and got the same results as everyone else?

Would you admit it or... just avoid the subject and dodge and evade. Suspiciously like what you are doing.
You had every opportunity to show your side and you bottled it when called out.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4308 on: April 11, 2021, 06:29:07 AM »
It is very clearly stated

- The eyeball is a pinhole camera
The pinhole accurately shows how sight-distance-things-far-look-small all work.
Yes no?

Nice and simple so I'm under no illusions.

This is amazing.
Its been explained.
For tye 5th time -
What part of it confuses you?

Either state a part that needs clarification or admit youre pathetic and this is your goto deflection
Tell me what happens.
Have you done the experiments to show what happens?
If so explain them to me.

It seems you are deflecting.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4309 on: April 11, 2021, 06:29:53 AM »
And if we can see the ground.

Yep, what's the issue?
No issue. You have finally answered the question of 'can we see the ground below the tree?'.
I never had any issue with it in the first place.

Holycrap?
And he is bringing this as his own evidnece afainst his claims.
Amazing!

See how nice it is to have a picutre to clarfiy your word salad?
Why would I have an issue with that picture?

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4310 on: April 11, 2021, 06:30:50 AM »
And if we can see the ground.

Yep, what's the issue?
No issue. You have finally answered the question of 'can we see the ground below the tree?'.
I never had any issue with it in the first place.

Holycrap?
And he is bringing this as his own evidnece afainst his claims.
Amazing!

See how nice it is to have a picutre to clarfiy your word salad?

Scepti finally agrees that we can see the ground.  And it only took 144 pages.
I never denied it in this instance.

My stance is still 100% firm.

?

#### Themightykabool

• 5158
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4311 on: April 11, 2021, 06:35:45 AM »

what part of words are confusing you?

you seem very easily confused
you must be a complete moron.

Your eyeball is a pinhole camera
The closer the objext the large the angles and resulting area on the back surface = far tree looks small

Its explained and reason has been given.
What do you fail to understand about its basic concept?
Are you of the position that they dont work?

You keeo takking about compressing views over distance.
The pinhole is jow to represent this wih an accurate and dimensionably scalable diagram as dvident by my very bereft description with experimentally useful reproducible diagram.

My diagram shows how close tree looks big-far tree lokks small, and jigsaws woth kackBs angular-distance graph and bored (correct) tree tu-tube drawing.
Clearly communicated as evident by everyone understanding it.... everyone.
Even the one wackadoodle who is faking it and curewntly dodging any acknowledgment of it because he must dismiss it because he cant bring up a valid point to argue it.
It must be dodged and dismissed or he must accept his tutube premise is wrong.

TLDR
Its a pinhole.
It explains how your eye works.
It shows field of view and debunks your tu-tube.

#### JJA

• 4510
• Math is math!
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4312 on: April 11, 2021, 06:44:20 AM »
You aren't fooling anybody but yourself.  I haven't see you learn a single fact or idea in any of these discussions, all you do is deny, deny, deny.

I have no need to fool anyone.
Argue the points or stay away from replying to me if you think what you think.
It should be easy to do but it seems hard for people like you.

It's hard to argue the facts when you don't produce any. Where is your experiment to show us how it works?

The only thing hard to do it seems, is you carrying out your own experiment. It's easy for you to claim everyone else is 'duping' you when you can't even perform the experiment yourself to double-check that you're actually right. Wouldn't it be funny if you actually did try it and got the same results as everyone else?

Would you admit it or... just avoid the subject and dodge and evade. Suspiciously like what you are doing.
You had every opportunity to show your side and you bottled it when called out.

I showed my side, several times and it proved you wrong. You never showed your side, even when called out, like now. Why? What are you afraid of showing? That your own experiment proves you wrong?

#### Stash

• 7455
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4313 on: April 11, 2021, 12:34:35 PM »
And if we can see the ground.

Yep, what's the issue?

If there is no issue, how are these real life images different than the one above?

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#### Themightykabool

• 5158
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4314 on: April 11, 2021, 02:28:14 PM »
I like how you added a tree overtop the literal other trees.
Hhaa

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#### JackBlack

• 15428
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4315 on: April 11, 2021, 02:57:38 PM »
I never claimed the ground couldn't be seen.
Yes, you did.
You claimed that because the ground is below the level of the tube, it can't be seen.

I then you a simple question, to clarify this, and this was your response:
If an object is far enough away horizontally, can you see it even though it is below the tube?
No.

Here you are directly confirming that you believe/claim that an object below the the tube cannot be seen.

And here is another quote from you:
As long as the tube was level (i.e. parallel) with the ground and the tube was not in contact with the ground, then based on his argument you would never see the ground regardless of whether the Earth is flat or not.
Correct.
Where you admit that your claim indicates you shouldn't see the ground through a level tube even if it was flat.

Again, this is because your argument relies upon it being an absolute.
Your argument is that because the ground is below, it can't be seen.

As soon as you admit that you can see things below a level tube, your argument for why you can't see the ground on a slope falls apart.
This is because you CAN see objects below you, which, as explained to you repeatedly, and which you repeatedly ignored, YOU HAVE 2 COMPETING EFFECTS.
One effect is that the ground is physically getting lower.
The other is that "visual compression" making it appear higher.
So the question then becomes which one wins.

Simple math easily allows us to determine that, but you seem to hate that math.

So why don't you try explaining just why we can't see the ground through a level tube on a RE or on a downwards  slope.
Remember, you have now admitted that you can see the ground even though it is BELOW a level tube, so that is NOT a justification. You need more. You need to show that the downwards slope can overcome the "visual compression".

And he did, and clearly demonstrated you were wrong.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 02:59:58 PM by JackBlack »

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4316 on: April 11, 2021, 09:25:01 PM »

This is why I mention how you lot twist things.
You came in under your bored name to try and aid in twisting it all and all you lot do is make it all harder for yourselves.

Make it harder for what? Harder to understand your nonsense? I don't care about understanding your nonsense, you don't even understand your own nonsense. It is quite obviously retarded.
I have pointed out where you have contradicted yourself once again, so it's you that is twisting things.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4317 on: April 11, 2021, 09:27:21 PM »

I showed my side, several times and it proved you wrong. You never showed your side, even when called out, like now. Why? What are you afraid of showing? That your own experiment proves you wrong?
I know what I know and you tried to dupe people with your set up.
I called you out on it and handed you a better set up where you would have serious trouble trying the dupe and guess what?

Yep, you bottled it just like I suspected you would.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4318 on: April 11, 2021, 09:29:14 PM »
It also means that we would see this :-

If the tube was much higher.
You wouldn't see the ground if this was your set up.
You'd have to be looking up a hill.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 27785
##### Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #4319 on: April 11, 2021, 09:30:57 PM »
And if we can see the ground.

Yep, what's the issue?

If there is no issue, how are these real life images different than the one above?

So, you decided to place a tree inside his tube and that solves the downward gradient issue, for you, right?

You people make me laugh.