What would change your mind?

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3720 on: March 04, 2021, 01:18:55 AM »
I already did explain it and the gif you posted shows exactly how it was done, which should be pretty clear to anyone who cares to question the global dupe.
You mean you repeatedly avoided it and the gif shows exactly why you are wrong.
The gif clearly shows that when looking level (as established by the water levels lining up) the horizon is below eye level.
You can only make it line up with the line by looking down from above the line.


We don't dismiss what you say.
Who are you trying to kid?
No one, unlike you who needs to contiually ignore large sections of posts which so clearly show you are wrong.
That is why I said we explain what is wrong with the garbage you say, which is distinct from merely dismissing it.

Who are you trying to kid?
Everyone in the world?

Because yet again you ignore extremely simple questions that show you are wrong.
Again, why shouldn't the RE have a horizon?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3721 on: March 04, 2021, 01:58:52 AM »
I already did explain it and the gif you posted shows exactly how it was done, which should be pretty clear to anyone who cares to question the global dupe.
You mean you repeatedly avoided it and the gif shows exactly why you are wrong.

The gif shows exactly why I'm right.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3722 on: March 04, 2021, 02:01:42 AM »

Are you a real person?

That's for you to decide.
My advice to you is to treat me as a bot and stay clear. Ignore me and get on with other stuff. Can you do that?

Nice dodging
Dodged the part where 3d simulations were provided and insyead going with more irrelevant non answers.
Draw your horizon.
I can't draw any horizon.
The horizon is theoretical and is only visible to each individuals eye level.

Fine
Draw the dark and draw the not so dark regions.
Draw what we are seeing and how it hits peoples eyes.
Draw your model.
I can't. What am I drawing?

The horizon is right in front of your eyes. Go and take a look. You ask for some silly things.

Draw a side view of what we are seeing.
What is it?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3723 on: March 04, 2021, 02:03:32 AM »

Are you a real person?

That's for you to decide.
My advice to you is to treat me as a bot and stay clear. Ignore me and get on with other stuff. Can you do that?

Nice dodging
Dodged the part where 3d simulations were provided and insyead going with more irrelevant non answers.
Draw your horizon.
I can't draw any horizon.
The horizon is theoretical and is only visible to each individuals eye level.

Fine
Draw the dark and draw the not so dark regions.
Draw what we are seeing and how it hits peoples eyes.
Draw your model.
I can't. What am I drawing?

The horizon is right in front of your eyes. Go and take a look. You ask for some silly things.

Draw a side view of what we are seeing.
What is it?
How many times do I need to tell you that I can't.

It's like you asking me to draw a ghost.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3724 on: March 04, 2021, 02:04:39 AM »
https://images.app.goo.gl/nmZmZjb3eyq2dmUbA

https://images.app.goo.gl/2dYHgUHaYr3Po2rz7



Heres how we do it.
Do yours.
If you can see something, then explain the light that is causing what we are seeing.
Not hard.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3725 on: March 04, 2021, 02:29:15 AM »
https://images.app.goo.gl/nmZmZjb3eyq2dmUbA

https://images.app.goo.gl/2dYHgUHaYr3Po2rz7



Heres how we do it.
Do yours.
If you can see something, then explain the light that is causing what we are seeing.
Not hard.
The horizon is specific to you. It is your horizon.
Why?
Because it's the convergence (theoretical) line to your vision. Your horizontally level vision.

Darker verses lighter shades of light spectrum.


The distance to your theoretical line is determined by the elevation.
You are not looking down to an edge you are looking directly level to the very same shades of light from top to below converging to the horizontally level eye line.


Putting up globes as if you see an edge to a curve, is nonsense.



Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3726 on: March 04, 2021, 02:55:41 AM »
I already did explain it and the gif you posted shows exactly how it was done, which should be pretty clear to anyone who cares to question the global dupe.
You mean you repeatedly avoided it and the gif shows exactly why you are wrong.
The gif shows exactly why I'm right.
Repeating the same lie and ignoring the refutation of it wont help you. It just shows how desperate you are.

Again, the gif quite clearly shows that when you are looking level at this height the horizon is clearly below the line. The only way to make it line up is if you look down.
And that means the horizon is below level.

Now again, care to explain why the RE shouldn't have a horizon?

The horizon is specific to you. It is your horizon.
No, it isn't.
It is simply the tangent to your eyes.

If you want to claim other nonsense, explain it, preferably with a diagram, clearly indicating how it causes the appearance of the horizon which is independent of the optics used and isn't a blur.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3727 on: March 04, 2021, 03:00:22 AM »
https://images.app.goo.gl/nmZmZjb3eyq2dmUbA

https://images.app.goo.gl/2dYHgUHaYr3Po2rz7



Heres how we do it.
Do yours.
If you can see something, then explain the light that is causing what we are seeing.
Not hard.
The horizon is specific to you. It is your horizon.
Why?
Because it's the convergence (theoretical) line to your vision. Your horizontally level vision.

Darker verses lighter shades of light spectrum.


The distance to your theoretical line is determined by the elevation.
You are not looking down to an edge you are looking directly level to the very same shades of light from top to below converging to the horizontally level eye line.


Putting up globes as if you see an edge to a curve, is nonsense.

Fine by you.
Dismiss the diagram without merrit as the diagram is stand alone.

However - provide YOUR MODEL is the current request.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3728 on: March 04, 2021, 03:41:59 AM »

Repeating the same lie and ignoring the refutation of it wont help you. It just shows how desperate you are.


It's certainly not going to help you by your repetition.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3729 on: March 04, 2021, 03:44:14 AM »
https://images.app.goo.gl/nmZmZjb3eyq2dmUbA

https://images.app.goo.gl/2dYHgUHaYr3Po2rz7



Heres how we do it.
Do yours.
If you can see something, then explain the light that is causing what we are seeing.
Not hard.
The horizon is specific to you. It is your horizon.
Why?
Because it's the convergence (theoretical) line to your vision. Your horizontally level vision.

Darker verses lighter shades of light spectrum.


The distance to your theoretical line is determined by the elevation.
You are not looking down to an edge you are looking directly level to the very same shades of light from top to below converging to the horizontally level eye line.


Putting up globes as if you see an edge to a curve, is nonsense.

Fine by you.
Dismiss the diagram without merrit as the diagram is stand alone.

However - provide YOUR MODEL is the current request.
Don't waste your time asking again. I've already explained why. Next time you ask it will be overlooked.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3730 on: March 04, 2021, 04:51:58 AM »
Mcdodger cant draw why light hits the eye yet claims he knows whats what.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3731 on: March 04, 2021, 12:15:58 PM »
Repeating the same lie and ignoring the refutation of it wont help you. It just shows how desperate you are.
It's certainly not going to help you
Repeating your same lie again and again is not going to make me nor anyone believe your BS.

Again, I'll stop my "repetition" when you can start addressing the issues raised rather than continually ignoring or dismissing them.

Don't waste your time asking again. I've already explained why. Next time you ask it will be overlooked.
No you haven't. You spouted handwavy nonsense which in no way explains why we have a clear horizon a finite distance away which doesn't depend on optics.

You just need to pretend to have explained it as you know that the RE is the reason why we have a horizon.

Just like you need to pretend to have explained how the photo shows the horizon is below eye level, because you know an honest analysis shows it is actually below eye level, which destroys your claims.

Now again, why shouldn't the RE have a horizon?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2021, 03:14:56 AM by JackBlack »

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3732 on: March 05, 2021, 01:01:09 AM »

Repeating your same lie again and again is not going me nor anyone believe your BS.
What does that mean? It makes no sense.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3733 on: March 05, 2021, 02:16:07 AM »
your word salad makes no sense.

if you can see something, that means light is coming from somewhere-hitting your eye.
draw it.
wtf is your horizon and why does a person at 1,000ft see it at "eye level" and another person at 5ft see it at their "eye level"?
draw it.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3734 on: March 05, 2021, 03:16:03 AM »

Repeating your same lie again and again is not going me nor anyone believe your BS.
What does that mean? It makes no sense.
And there you go ignoring the point yet again, using whatever distraction you can.
Yes, I made a typo, so what. The intent is clear.

Now care to address the issues or will you just continue with these deflections?

Again, why shouldn't the RE have a horizon?
And just how does the gif show you are correct, as it clearly shows the horizon is BELOW eye level?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3735 on: March 05, 2021, 03:52:38 AM »
your word salad makes no sense.

if you can see something, that means light is coming from somewhere-hitting your eye.
draw it.
wtf is your horizon and why does a person at 1,000ft see it at "eye level" and another person at 5ft see it at their "eye level"?
draw it.
Once you understand that the horizon you see is your horizon (theoretical) line at any height, you will start to get a grip on what I'm talking about.
Until then you will set yourself back.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3736 on: March 05, 2021, 03:59:32 AM »
Again, why shouldn't the RE have a horizon?

Simple question, simple answer.
Assuming it was magically possible to stand on a globe as you believe it to be, then looking over  that globe with level sight will only offer you a curved angle away from your level vision. It leaves you with sky. That's it.

You may not like this answer but it is an answer, so don;t be coming back saying I haven't answered.




Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3737 on: March 05, 2021, 06:12:39 AM »
your word salad makes no sense.

if you can see something, that means light is coming from somewhere-hitting your eye.
draw it.
wtf is your horizon and why does a person at 1,000ft see it at "eye level" and another person at 5ft see it at their "eye level"?
draw it.
Once you understand that the horizon you see is your horizon (theoretical) line at any height, you will start to get a grip on what I'm talking about.
Until then you will set yourself back.

What a bullshit non answer.

Your eyes are full of light receptor cells.
When  a raybeam of light hits a receptir, it triggers the brain to percieve that.
So
Where are these light rays coming from.
Draw it.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3738 on: March 05, 2021, 01:43:08 PM »
Again, why shouldn't the RE have a horizon?

Simple question, simple answer.
Assuming it was magically possible to stand on a globe as you believe it to be, then looking over  that globe with level sight will only offer you a curved angle away from your level vision. It leaves you with sky. That's it.

You may not like this answer but it is an answer, so don;t be coming back saying I haven't answered.
No, it isn't an answer, it is yet another deflection.
I didn't ask you why the RE doesn't have a horizon at eye level.
I asked why it doesn't have a horizon. That would include one which is not at eye level, including those below it, as repeatedly observed in reality.

Given the previous interactions, you KNOW that I am not limiting it to a level sight, such as by the previous line of inquiry, you start with your head looking down seeing nothing but ground/sea, and slowly lift it up until you can see nothing but sky. Visually what happens in between?
What separates the ground/sea from the sky?

This means you didn't answer my question.
Instead you substituted the question with a different question, one you felt you could answer.
So don't come back saying you have answered, when you threw in an additional restriction of a 0 degree level sight which were not in the original question.

So I'll ask again, why shouldn't the RE have a horizon?

This time see if you can actually answer the question asked rather than a different one you want to answer because you find it easier.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3739 on: March 05, 2021, 01:53:19 PM »
Are we back to level sight again?
Can people not see down?
Are there not computers or drawing software thst will allow someone to create a simulation and show the model matches reality?

I mean seriously - youve already admitted that nasa is cgi startrek trickery.
So someone has the ability.
Possobly those two vids i alrrady gave you thst you are yet to watch?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3740 on: March 05, 2021, 02:08:49 PM »
Again, why shouldn't the RE have a horizon?

Simple question, simple answer.
Assuming it was magically possible to stand on a globe as you believe it to be, then looking over  that globe with level sight will only offer you a curved angle away from your level vision. It leaves you with sky. That's it.

You may not like this answer but it is an answer, so don;t be coming back saying I haven't answered.

See, this is where you misunderstand size, scale, and perspective here on Earth. Your mind just doesn't seem capable of differentiating between what you see while standing on top of a basketball, compared to what you see while standing on Earth.

I know it must be confusing for you, but this is where the app, google earth, could be very helpful and educational for someone like you. Yes, it's a computer simulation of the earth, where you can test it against the physical world around you.

I use it all the time at work.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3741 on: March 06, 2021, 12:23:52 AM »
Are we back to level sight again?
Can people not see down?
Are there not computers or drawing software thst will allow someone to create a simulation and show the model matches reality?

I mean seriously - youve already admitted that nasa is cgi startrek trickery.
So someone has the ability.
Possobly those two vids i alrrady gave you thst you are yet to watch?
Take a bit more time to answer and think a bit.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3742 on: March 06, 2021, 12:29:18 AM »
Again, why shouldn't the RE have a horizon?

Simple question, simple answer.
Assuming it was magically possible to stand on a globe as you believe it to be, then looking over  that globe with level sight will only offer you a curved angle away from your level vision. It leaves you with sky. That's it.

You may not like this answer but it is an answer, so don;t be coming back saying I haven't answered.

See, this is where you misunderstand size, scale, and perspective here on Earth. Your mind just doesn't seem capable of differentiating between what you see while standing on top of a basketball, compared to what you see while standing on Earth.

I know it must be confusing for you, but this is where the app, google earth, could be very helpful and educational for someone like you. Yes, it's a computer simulation of the earth, where you can test it against the physical world around you.

I use it all the time at work.
I'm not mixed up.
The Earth that you believe in will always curve downwards and away from your vision.
Anything you look at from a level vision will never reach a distant object just a score miles away.

8 inches per mile squared is all you need to know. It does not end up trivial even over the one mile, never mind mile after mile.


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Stash

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3743 on: March 06, 2021, 01:28:40 AM »
Again, why shouldn't the RE have a horizon?

Simple question, simple answer.
Assuming it was magically possible to stand on a globe as you believe it to be, then looking over  that globe with level sight will only offer you a curved angle away from your level vision. It leaves you with sky. That's it.

You may not like this answer but it is an answer, so don;t be coming back saying I haven't answered.

See, this is where you misunderstand size, scale, and perspective here on Earth. Your mind just doesn't seem capable of differentiating between what you see while standing on top of a basketball, compared to what you see while standing on Earth.

I know it must be confusing for you, but this is where the app, google earth, could be very helpful and educational for someone like you. Yes, it's a computer simulation of the earth, where you can test it against the physical world around you.

I use it all the time at work.
I'm not mixed up.
The Earth that you believe in will always curve downwards and away from your vision.
Anything you look at from a level vision will never reach a distant object just a score miles away.

8 inches per mile squared is all you need to know. It does not end up trivial even over the one mile, never mind mile after mile.

What's really strange to me is that you truly don't understand the mechanics of a globe earth, the thing that you rail against. Using the accurate measurement calculations it works like this.

Here is a 50' tall Target Object. The Observer is at 6'. The distance to the Target is 1 mile. The amount hidden by the globe is 0:



Now we push the same Target out to about our normal optical range limit of the Horizon, around 3 miles typically, at the same Observer height. The amount hidden by the globe earth is 0.0000001485':



Now we push the same Target out to 10 miles at the same Observer height. The amount hidden by the globe earth is 32.68':



Looking through a 2" level tube would look something like this:


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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3744 on: March 06, 2021, 02:23:17 AM »
Again, why shouldn't the RE have a horizon?

Simple question, simple answer.
Assuming it was magically possible to stand on a globe as you believe it to be, then looking over  that globe with level sight will only offer you a curved angle away from your level vision. It leaves you with sky. That's it.

You may not like this answer but it is an answer, so don;t be coming back saying I haven't answered.

See, this is where you misunderstand size, scale, and perspective here on Earth. Your mind just doesn't seem capable of differentiating between what you see while standing on top of a basketball, compared to what you see while standing on Earth.

I know it must be confusing for you, but this is where the app, google earth, could be very helpful and educational for someone like you. Yes, it's a computer simulation of the earth, where you can test it against the physical world around you.

I use it all the time at work.
I'm not mixed up.
The Earth that you believe in will always curve downwards and away from your vision.
Anything you look at from a level vision will never reach a distant object just a score miles away.

8 inches per mile squared is all you need to know. It does not end up trivial even over the one mile, never mind mile after mile.

What's really strange to me is that you truly don't understand the mechanics of a globe earth, the thing that you rail against. Using the accurate measurement calculations it works like this.

Here is a 50' tall Target Object. The Observer is at 6'. The distance to the Target is 1 mile. The amount hidden by the globe is 0:



Now we push the same Target out to about our normal optical range limit of the Horizon, around 3 miles typically, at the same Observer height. The amount hidden by the globe earth is 0.0000001485':



Now we push the same Target out to 10 miles at the same Observer height. The amount hidden by the globe earth is 32.68':



Looking through a 2" level tube would look something like this:


There is no horizon on your globe so all that stuff you put, is bumph.


8 inches per mile squared is what would happen from a level sight.

It means that your level sight just rises and rises over the downward curvature over distance.
It means that you see sky, not horizon.

Your globe is nonsense.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3745 on: March 06, 2021, 02:48:28 AM »
The Earth that you believe in will always curve downwards and away from your vision.
No, it wont.
For example, if you look down, you can clearly see it.
But even when looking out level, initially perspective makes it curve up into your vision, as repeatedly shown.

8 inches per mile squared is all you need to know. It does not end up trivial even over the one mile, never mind mile after mile.
Except as already shown, that is an outright lie. The angular drop for the horizon is roughly 2.7 arc minutes, i.e. basically nothing.


There is no horizon on your globe so all that stuff you put, is bumph.
Stop just repeating the same pathetic lie.
If you want to assert the RE can't have a horizon, you need to explain what separates the ground/sea from the sky (visually).
If you need to continually appeal to a 0 degree level sight, it shows you have no case, as it is no better than saying "If you look straight up you can't see the ground".

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Stash

  • 7308
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3746 on: March 06, 2021, 02:49:59 AM »
Again, why shouldn't the RE have a horizon?

Simple question, simple answer.
Assuming it was magically possible to stand on a globe as you believe it to be, then looking over  that globe with level sight will only offer you a curved angle away from your level vision. It leaves you with sky. That's it.

You may not like this answer but it is an answer, so don;t be coming back saying I haven't answered.

See, this is where you misunderstand size, scale, and perspective here on Earth. Your mind just doesn't seem capable of differentiating between what you see while standing on top of a basketball, compared to what you see while standing on Earth.

I know it must be confusing for you, but this is where the app, google earth, could be very helpful and educational for someone like you. Yes, it's a computer simulation of the earth, where you can test it against the physical world around you.

I use it all the time at work.
I'm not mixed up.
The Earth that you believe in will always curve downwards and away from your vision.
Anything you look at from a level vision will never reach a distant object just a score miles away.

8 inches per mile squared is all you need to know. It does not end up trivial even over the one mile, never mind mile after mile.

What's really strange to me is that you truly don't understand the mechanics of a globe earth, the thing that you rail against. Using the accurate measurement calculations it works like this.

Here is a 50' tall Target Object. The Observer is at 6'. The distance to the Target is 1 mile. The amount hidden by the globe is 0:



Now we push the same Target out to about our normal optical range limit of the Horizon, around 3 miles typically, at the same Observer height. The amount hidden by the globe earth is 0.0000001485':



Now we push the same Target out to 10 miles at the same Observer height. The amount hidden by the globe earth is 32.68':



Looking through a 2" level tube would look something like this:


There is no horizon on your globe so all that stuff you put, is bumph.


8 inches per mile squared is what would happen from a level sight.

It means that your level sight just rises and rises over the downward curvature over distance.
It means that you see sky, not horizon.

Your globe is nonsense.

Your self-indoctrinated faith based religion of one is, well, at least consistent.

You've been provided an endless stream of demonstrations and evidence to the contrary and your only argument is that it's all a lie based solely on your belief system. You refuse to provide and demonstrations, experiments, or evidence of your own to counter. You don't even understand what the thing is you are against. It's just you stomping your feet saying, "It's all a lie!"

Like I said before, no one even remotely thinks you would ever change your mind. Faith based religions like yours don't work that way. Faith usurps all logic and evidence.

All that's being done here is pointing out that you provide nothing but your devotion to your religion when faced with actual reality based evidence. There's no debating with faith. You've made that abundantly clear.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3747 on: March 06, 2021, 02:53:03 AM »
The Earth that you believe in will always curve downwards and away from your vision.
No, it wont.
For example, if you look down, you can clearly see it.

If you look down, of course you can see it.
Do we all go about looking down or do we generally look horizontally level?

And, if your Earth does not curve down and way from you then what the hell does it do?
Make up your mind.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3748 on: March 06, 2021, 02:54:55 AM »
The Earth that you believe in will always curve downwards and away from your vision.
No, it wont.
For example, if you look down, you can clearly see it.
If you look down, of course you can see it.
And that is one of the key points.
You look down YOU SEE GROUND/SEA.
You look up, you see sky.
So what visually separates them other than the horizon?

Stop appealing to your stupid 0 degree level sight which no one has.
Instead just address the simple fact that the RE SHOULD have a horizon.
Either explain why it shouldn't, or admit it has one.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3749 on: March 06, 2021, 03:01:19 AM »
Your self-indoctrinated faith based religion of one is, well, at least consistent.

You've been provided an endless stream of demonstrations and evidence to the contrary and your only argument is that it's all a lie based solely on your belief system.
You refuse to provide and demonstrations, experiments, or evidence of your own to counter. You don't even understand what the thing is you are against. It's just you stomping your feet saying, "It's all a lie!"
No, that's not right. I give out plenty but you people don't accept it and then go into a frenzy about me not providing anything.
You throw a load of copy and paste into the ring and say " there you go."
Put some effort in.



Quote from: Stash

Like I said before, no one even remotely thinks you would ever change your mind. Faith based religions like yours don't work that way. Faith usurps all logic and evidence.
I certainly won't change my mindset on anything you people have put forward.
None of you can put anything forward from your own minds. You can't put anything into simple basic because your whole set up is all about following what's set out and replicating it.
It's a bit sickening to be fair.
I feel like I'm dealing with some people on some kind of spectrum.

Quote from: Stash

All that's being done here is pointing out that you provide nothing but your devotion to your religion when faced with actual reality based evidence. There's no debating with faith. You've made that abundantly clear.
There's no religion but my devotion is in getting the truth or at least ensuring people can think for themselves and go looking for it. Because one thing's for sure. The oblate spheroid spinning in a vacuum around a big fiery ball of fire is sickeningly yet bemusingly nonsensical.