What would change your mind?

There is a massive problem for you, which you are yet to address.

I've already addressed it.
The problem is what you created from your drawing.
I already asked you questions and you refused to answer but I don't expect anything else to be fair.

Quote from: JackBlack on January 27, 2021, 12:27:06 PM

There is a massive problem for you, which you are yet to address.

I've already addressed it.
The problem is what you created from your drawing.
I already asked you questions and you refused to answer but I don't expect anything else to be fair.

And again you just continue to ignore the problem because you cannot criticise it.

Yes, the problem is clearly shown in the drawing, a problem you have no answer to.
If you wish to claim you have already addressed it, then provide the post where you have.

And no, the one time you tried to deflect by asking why it should reach the eye doesn't count as that was already addressed.

I addressed every question you posed in that response of yours.
You ignoring the answers and pretending they don't exist doesn't magically mean they don't.

Just what do you think I haven't answered?
Because I can easily tell you what you continually refuse to answer.
What magic prevents the light indicated by the blue line from reaching the eye?

Again, unless you have a sound answer, you have no criticism of this proof that you are wrong.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 27, 2021, 09:09:34 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on January 27, 2021, 12:27:06 PM

There is a massive problem for you, which you are yet to address.

I've already addressed it.
The problem is what you created from your drawing.
I already asked you questions and you refused to answer but I don't expect anything else to be fair.

And again you just continue to ignore the problem because you cannot criticise it.

Yes, the problem is clearly shown in the drawing, a problem you have no answer to.
If you wish to claim you have already addressed it, then provide the post where you have.

And no, the one time you tried to deflect by asking why it should reach the eye doesn't count as that was already addressed.

I addressed every question you posed in that response of yours.
You ignoring the answers and pretending they don't exist doesn't magically mean they don't.

Just what do you think I haven't answered?
Because I can easily tell you what you continually refuse to answer.
What magic prevents the light indicated by the blue line from reaching the eye?

Again, unless you have a sound answer, you have no criticism of this proof that you are wrong.

Did you forget this?

How about you answer it.

Quote from: JackBlack on January 25, 2021, 12:27:35 PM

Alternatively, you need a tube which has a FOV of effectively 0.

Otherwise, you have an angular FOV and can see things either above or below the tube.

You'll always have a FOV. The tube diameter always allows that. You know this and you know I know this, so why bother going on about FOV?

The set up is to stop two things.
1. To stop angular dip, meaning looking down the tube, unlevel.

2. To ensure the crosshairs are centred onto each other so as not to change angle of sight.

All you're doing from that point is having a FOV that corresponds with the actual diameter of the tube end at that particular distance on a gradient.
And, the reality is, you do not see the ground, unlike the little attempted dupe by a certain person.

Quote from: JackBlack on January 28, 2021, 12:45:27 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 27, 2021, 09:09:34 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on January 27, 2021, 12:27:06 PM

There is a massive problem for you, which you are yet to address.

I've already addressed it.
The problem is what you created from your drawing.
I already asked you questions and you refused to answer but I don't expect anything else to be fair.

And again you just continue to ignore the problem because you cannot criticise it.

Yes, the problem is clearly shown in the drawing, a problem you have no answer to.
If you wish to claim you have already addressed it, then provide the post where you have.

And no, the one time you tried to deflect by asking why it should reach the eye doesn't count as that was already addressed.

I addressed every question you posed in that response of yours.
You ignoring the answers and pretending they don't exist doesn't magically mean they don't.

Just what do you think I haven't answered?
Because I can easily tell you what you continually refuse to answer.
What magic prevents the light indicated by the blue line from reaching the eye?

Again, unless you have a sound answer, you have no criticism of this proof that you are wrong.

Did you forget this?

How about you answer it.

No, I didn't forget it, and I have already addressed it here:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=87127.msg2301801#msg2301801

Now how about you stop just ignoring everything that shows you are wrong and answer the question:
WHAT MAGIC STOPS THE BLUE LINE?

No, I didn't forget it, and I have already addressed it here:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=87127.msg2301801#msg2301801

Now how about you stop just ignoring everything that shows you are wrong and answer the question:
WHAT MAGIC STOPS THE BLUE LINE?

You failed to answer the question. You've dodged it like you always do.

Quote from: JackBlack on January 28, 2021, 01:09:13 AM

No, I didn't forget it, and I have already addressed it here:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=87127.msg2301801#msg2301801

Now how about you stop just ignoring everything that shows you are wrong and answer the question:
WHAT MAGIC STOPS THE BLUE LINE?

You failed to answer the question. You've dodged it like you always do.

That would be you.

It is clearly there in my post.
But here is another answer just for you.
I know you know there is a FOV, but you keep on lying and pretending there is no FOV with your repeatedly lie that we magically only see in a single line, with your repeatedly lie that we magically can't see what is below the tube.

Meanwhile, you continually use whatever dishonest BS you can to avoid answering extremely simple questions.
Now again:
WHAT MAGIC STOPS THE BLUE LINE?

Have you though of a way out other than continually ignoring the question?

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 28, 2021, 02:19:17 AM

Quote from: JackBlack on January 28, 2021, 01:09:13 AM

No, I didn't forget it, and I have already addressed it here:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=87127.msg2301801#msg2301801

Now how about you stop just ignoring everything that shows you are wrong and answer the question:
WHAT MAGIC STOPS THE BLUE LINE?

You failed to answer the question. You've dodged it like you always do.

That would be you.

It is clearly there in my post.
But here is another answer just for you.
I know you know there is a FOV, but you keep on lying and pretending there is no FOV with your repeatedly lie that we magically only see in a single line, with your repeatedly lie that we magically can't see what is below the tube.

Meanwhile, you continually use whatever dishonest BS you can to avoid answering extremely simple questions.
Now again:
WHAT MAGIC STOPS THE BLUE LINE?

Have you though of a way out other than continually ignoring the question?

Answer the question and I can answer yours.

Quote from: JackBlack on January 28, 2021, 01:09:13 AM

No, I didn't forget it, and I have already addressed it here:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=87127.msg2301801#msg2301801

Now how about you stop just ignoring everything that shows you are wrong and answer the question:
WHAT MAGIC STOPS THE BLUE LINE?

You failed to answer the question. You've dodged it like you always do.

Like you dodge any questions on why you won't do your own experiment?  You're the one not backing up your claims.  Post your experimental photos.

 You're the one not backing up your claims. 

My claim is simple. You tried to debunk it and failed by trying to dupe me.
I put a stringent experiment at your door and you bottled it.
I'm more than happy for you to deck out but would really enjoy seeing you try to dupe this one.

Quote from: JJA on January 28, 2021, 04:50:51 AM

 You're the one not backing up your claims. 

My claim is simple. You tried to debunk it and failed by trying to dupe me.
I put a stringent experiment at your door and you bottled it.
I'm more than happy for you to deck out but would really enjoy seeing you try to dupe this one.

No, backing up your claim is simple... do your experiment and post photos of the result.  You have refused to do this, so you have zero evidence to back up your claims.  All you did was add conditions which you are unwilling to do yourself. Sad.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 28, 2021, 08:59:39 AM

Quote from: JJA on January 28, 2021, 04:50:51 AM

 You're the one not backing up your claims. 

My claim is simple. You tried to debunk it and failed by trying to dupe me.
I put a stringent experiment at your door and you bottled it.
I'm more than happy for you to deck out but would really enjoy seeing you try to dupe this one.

No, backing up your claim is simple... do your experiment and post photos of the result.  You have refused to do this, so you have zero evidence to back up your claims.  All you did was add conditions which you are unwilling to do yourself. Sad.

Let's put this to bed.

I'm doing no experiment for you.
Are you willing to follow the experiment I set out for you. If so, then get it done. If not, make this your last post on it.

why do you refuse to do your own experiment to prove to all us what's what?

Quote from: JJA on January 28, 2021, 09:03:47 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 28, 2021, 08:59:39 AM

Quote from: JJA on January 28, 2021, 04:50:51 AM

 You're the one not backing up your claims. 

My claim is simple. You tried to debunk it and failed by trying to dupe me.
I put a stringent experiment at your door and you bottled it.
I'm more than happy for you to deck out but would really enjoy seeing you try to dupe this one.

No, backing up your claim is simple... do your experiment and post photos of the result.  You have refused to do this, so you have zero evidence to back up your claims.  All you did was add conditions which you are unwilling to do yourself. Sad.

Let's put this to bed.

I'm doing no experiment for you.
Are you willing to follow the experiment I set out for you. If so, then get it done. If not, make this your last post on it.

So you are at least now openly refusing to show any of your own evidence or experiments. I wonder why that might be... you seem so convinced your experiments prove everyone wrong, but you are afraid to show them. How curious. If I had evidence backing me up I'd sure post it, oh wait, I did.

You are quick to demand people re-do their experiments with all your added tubes and crosshairs so you are in no position to tell others to shut up. You said you did these experiments that show us all wrong, so show us. Or admit you are wrong if you can't prove it.

why do you refuse to do your own experiment to prove to all us what's what?

Because this isn't about me proving anything to you people. You people aren't my target. My target is genuine people. One's that can go and check for themselves and do not feel the need to offer up clap trap.

So you are at least now openly refusing to show any of your own evidence or experiments.

I never offered in the first place. You decided you would dishonestly do the experiment I put out. You showed me exactly what I suspected.

Quote from: JJA on January 28, 2021, 09:52:00 AM

So you are at least now openly refusing to show any of your own evidence or experiments.

I never offered in the first place. You decided you would dishonestly do the experiment I put out. You showed me exactly what I suspected.

I also did my own experiment with a globe, and you jumped right in demanding straws and other conditions so don't pretend you didn't.  No, you never agreed to do an experiment, and that is very curious. Why would you be so concerned and worried with showing your results? I wonder what they actually look like.... why wouldn't you show them if they backed you up? It's pretty obvious, isn't it.

Sceptimatic, it's hilarious how much you've failed in this thread.  Do you have a youtube channel?  If so, I bet there's plenty of entertainment to be had.

Quote from: JackBlack on January 28, 2021, 02:42:40 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 28, 2021, 02:19:17 AM

Quote from: JackBlack on January 28, 2021, 01:09:13 AM

No, I didn't forget it, and I have already addressed it here:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=87127.msg2301801#msg2301801

Now how about you stop just ignoring everything that shows you are wrong and answer the question:
WHAT MAGIC STOPS THE BLUE LINE?

You failed to answer the question. You've dodged it like you always do.

That would be you.

It is clearly there in my post.
But here is another answer just for you.
I know you know there is a FOV, but you keep on lying and pretending there is no FOV with your repeatedly lie that we magically only see in a single line, with your repeatedly lie that we magically can't see what is below the tube.

Meanwhile, you continually use whatever dishonest BS you can to avoid answering extremely simple questions.
Now again:
WHAT MAGIC STOPS THE BLUE LINE?

Have you though of a way out other than continually ignoring the question?

Answer the question and I can answer yours.

Ignoring the answer doesn't magically make it disappear. Again, just what question do you think I haven't answered, considering I addressed all your nonsense in the post you quoted before?

Meanwhile, my question to you remain unanswered, and unlike you I can clearly show what it is.
Again, WHAT MAGIC STOPS THE BLUE LINE?

Quote from: JJA on January 28, 2021, 04:50:51 AM

You're the one not backing up your claims. 

My claim is simple. You tried to debunk it and failed

Your claim being simple doesn't mean you back it up.
All you do is continually assert the same refuted nonsense.
That is not backing it up.

Meanwhile, JJA debunked it with evidence you are yet to challenge in any meaningful way and I have debunked it through simple logic and questions you need to continually flee from.

I put a stringent experiment at your door and you bottled it.

Why the dishonesty?
You put an experiment at his door.
He did it and showed you were wrong.
Rather than accept you were wrong, you dismissed it as fake, repeatedly insulted him and threw in more ridiculous which just further removes the experiment from your original claim, which do not help verify the tube(s) are level.

I don't know about you, but my kitchen roll tubes aren't 11 feet long.
All you are doing is making the overall experiment more complex and reducing the FOV, all while refusing to do it yourself.

So how about you stop making pathetic excuses and do the experiment yourself?

I'm more than happy for you to deck out but would really enjoy seeing you try to dupe this one.

And there is the problem. Before he even does the experiment, you have already concluded he will fake it.
So if he provides results that show you are wrong, you will dismiss it as fake, again with no justification.

That is all you ever do with these experiments.
You set up ridiculous criteria, demand someone else does it while you continually refuse; then when they do, you just dismiss it as fake and throw in more demands.
It truly is pathetic.

I'm doing no experiment for you.

Then stop expecting others to do it for you.

This means you have no experimental evidence backing you up, and plenty showing you are wrong.
If you are not going to do the experiments, then the experiment stand as is, showing you are wrong.

This means you stop bringing the experiments up as anything other than clear proof that you are wrong.

Because this isn't about me proving anything to you people.

Yes it is. You come into this thread, spouting loads of lies, and then refuse to justify those lies in any way.

You showed me exactly what I suspected.

That you were wrong?

We all know the reason you refuse to do any experiements.
If other people do them, you can just pretend they are faking them and that their results are wrong.
But if you do them and post your results, it doesn't make much sense to claim you faked it.
Grow up.

Because this isn't about me proving anything to you people. You people aren't my target. My target is genuine people.

By genuine I take it you mean anyone you can find who actually agrees with you and would support your fantasy. Is there any such person?  As for your idea of an 'experiment' you wouldn't know what a true experiment is.  Unless of course it is all carefully engineered to produce exactly the result you want it to.  That is not an experiment. 

The fact is that no experiment will ever produce the result you want it to genuinely and that is why you can't show us any photos or results of your 'experiment'. Because they don't exist except in your mind. You can tell us and claim all you like but that proves absolutely nothing.

In the meantime several people here have been kind enough to get up off their backsides and actually do experiments of their own which show that all your claims are completely wrong.  But you just dismiss all that effort as 'duping' you.  Have you ever been wrong about anything in your life? If not can you please share the secret with us so we can learn how to be brilliant as well?

You have proved your beliefs are true to yourself and that is enough for you isn't it. No more evidence required. In your mind you are right about everything. 

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 28, 2021, 09:44:17 AM

why do you refuse to do your own experiment to prove to all us what's what?

Because this isn't about me proving anything to you people. You people aren't my target. My target is genuine people. One's that can go and check for themselves and do not feel the need to offer up clap trap.

Ok moving on then since yoyre obviously stonewalling and are wrong.

Im a focus on this layest statment
How do we qualify a genuine person?
What is the reason you refuse to share your knowledge? - in the sense of proofs.
Because i like to think we re all logical people who like to see proofs instead of essays of word salad.
Simple diagrams surpass allimitations of jarbled language.
You clearly want to tell us all what you think else you wouldnt be here, yet stop and refuse to diagram or photo to prove your thoughts correct.
Why.
Why do you continue to chose to fail at the 9th yard after going through all this effort?

Sceptimatic, it's hilarious how much you've failed in this thread.  Do you have a youtube channel?  If so, I bet there's plenty of entertainment to be had.

There's no failure on my part. I'm more than happy with my lot.
The failure is massively down to those who are trying to play games in order to push the agenda they were coaxed into.
You've yet to follow suit in terms of putting up a picture or diagram so all you are is a follower of the dishonest bunch, without knowing why.

Why the dishonesty?

There's no dishonesty from my side. Take a look at the efforts from your side.

Quote

Because this isn't about me proving anything to you people. You people aren't my target. My target is genuine people.

By genuine I take it you mean anyone you can find who actually agrees with you and would support your fantasy. Is there any such person?  As for your idea of an 'experiment' you wouldn't know what a true experiment is.  Unless of course it is all carefully engineered to produce exactly the result you want it to.  That is not an experiment. 

The fact is that no experiment will ever produce the result you want it to genuinely and that is why you can't show us any photos or results of your 'experiment'. Because they don't exist except in your mind. You can tell us and claim all you like but that proves absolutely nothing.

In the meantime several people here have been kind enough to get up off their backsides and actually do experiments of their own which show that all your claims are completely wrong.  But you just dismiss all that effort as 'duping' you.  Have you ever been wrong about anything in your life? If not can you please share the secret with us so we can learn how to be brilliant as well?

You have proved your beliefs are true to yourself and that is enough for you isn't it. No more evidence required. In your mind you are right about everything.

Getting up off a backside to play games and produce something which does not match reality, is not a real experiment, no matter how much you want to crow about it.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 28, 2021, 09:53:31 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 28, 2021, 09:44:17 AM

why do you refuse to do your own experiment to prove to all us what's what?

Because this isn't about me proving anything to you people. You people aren't my target. My target is genuine people. One's that can go and check for themselves and do not feel the need to offer up clap trap.

Ok moving on then since yoyre obviously stonewalling and are wrong.

Im a focus on this layest statment
How do we qualify a genuine person?
What is the reason you refuse to share your knowledge? - in the sense of proofs.
Because i like to think we re all logical people who like to see proofs instead of essays of word salad.
Simple diagrams surpass allimitations of jarbled language.
You clearly want to tell us all what you think else you wouldnt be here, yet stop and refuse to diagram or photo to prove your thoughts correct.
Why.
Why do you continue to chose to fail at the 9th yard after going through all this effort?

It's very simple. I know what I see. I put out the diagram of what I see. I'm told this is not what I really see and a diagram and a picture was used to pretend things are different.
I can see the dupe and you people don't, for obvious reasons. You're globalists with no reason to dare to go against it.
You lot think mass battering will coax a change from those who go against it.
You're wrong.

The genuine people are those who are sitting back saying nothing but who are testing out their own stuff based on what I mention and using their own logical senses to see that I'm not the one who is trying to dupe and be dishonest.

You people are what I always expect. A desperate attempt to keep a globe alive for whatever reasons you have for wanting to stick to it.
None of you have shown or proved anything legitimate.

But if youre right youre right.
I assume you believe yourself to be right, but do you beleive it to be truth or just theory?

Because right is right regardless of who presents it.
It is demonstrably done and repeatable.
If you had a secret so powerful you could shiw us and instantly convert and blow our minds.
This isnt about indoctrination - your excuse.
You can easily undontrinate the world if theory is truth.
Refusal of such a basic premise is ridiuculous if rhis is your only justifiable excuse to not step up and put your toilet tube where your mouth is.

But if youre right youre right.
I assume you believe yourself to be right, but do you beleive it to be truth or just theory?

Because right is right regardless of who presents it.

Correct, right is right regardless of who presents it. The issue is in people presenting something which they say is right, which is not.
This is what's being argued.

It is demonstrably done and repeatable.
If you had a secret so powerful you could shiw us and instantly convert and blow our minds.
This isnt about indoctrination - your excuse.
You can easily undontrinate the world if theory is truth.

It is demonstrably done and repeatable but one person's view seems to be another person's obscurity to the their truth/reality.
You think it's me and I think it's you lot.

Refusal of such a basic premise is ridiuculous if rhis is your only justifiable excuse to not step up and put your toilet tube where your mouth is.

There's a simple experiment I put up that JJA had set up. I added a little to it because of his unwillingness to be honest in what I asked for.
If you people don't want to see stuff for yourselves then I'm in no position to see it for you and nor do I care what you decide is your truth or what games you think you play against me.

I know what I know and none of you will ever change that ....unless you actually show a reality without attempts to dupe.
It's been so blatant that I have to wonder what I'm really up against with some of you lot.

But you havent proved what you know.
Your "know" is still in the relm of theory.
Complaining we re dishonest or farting around with vertical plumb lines is a waste of time if you HAVE the true reality.
Why not show it.
You claim to not want to engage the indoctrinated yet here you are 62pg later still arguing about the merits of the setup.
If its so good - show it.
If jja honsetly didnt set it up right, not due to DIShonesty - show it.
If its right - show it.
How weak is your pov that you cant stand up against the most basic levle1 scrunity?
If its a matter of "seeing" - show it

There's no failure on my part.

There sure seems to be.
You made a bunch of claims which you have been unable to justify in any way, which have been refuted by both logic and evidence.
That sure sounds like a massive failure.

The failure is massively down to those who are trying to play games in order to push the agenda they were coaxed into.

So you.
You were coaxed into the agenda of the FE and rejection of science, and now you use whatever dishonest BS you can to try to push it.

Quote from: JackBlack on January 28, 2021, 12:09:47 PM

Why the dishonesty?

There's no dishonesty from my side.

There is plenty. You lie with almost every post you make.
Such as the previous posts directed to me where you falsely claimed I hadn't addressed something, yet couldn't tell me what it was.

And of course, you continued dishonesty of repeating the same lies again and again even though they have been refuted countless times and your refusal to answer a simple question which shows you are wrong.

Again, WHAT MAGIC STOPS THE BLUE LINE?

It's very simple. I know what I see.

Yet you refuse to provide evidence of it.
It is as if you know that what you see doesn't match what you claim.

I can see the dupe and you people don't, for obvious reasons.

Yes, because you are wrong, and need to see the dupe to pretend you are not wrong.
The "dupe" you speak of is all in your head.

The genuine people are those who are sitting back saying nothing but who are testing out their own stuff based on what I mention and using their own logical senses to see that I'm not the one who is trying to dupe and be dishonest.

No, they are the ones who have tried what you have suggested, and see that it doesn't match reality at all, and now object to your repeated lies.
The genuine people who have provided simple logical arguments and questions and evidence that you are wrong.

You people are what I always expect.

Honest people who see through your BS and can easily show you to be wrong?

The issue is in people presenting something which they say is right, which is not.

Yes, like you do repeatedly.

There's a simple experiment I put up that JJA had set up.

Which clearly demonstrated that you were wrong.
Because it showed you were wrong, you dismissed it as fake and added in a bunch of needless complexities to pretend you are justified in dismissing it.
Meanwhile, you refuse to provide your own evidence or engage with the logical arguments that show you are wrong.

unless you actually show a reality without attempts to dupe.

And by that what you really mean unless we show you things consistent with your fantasy, i.e. YOU WILL NEVER CHANGE!
Even after being shown to be wrong repeatedly, you will still claim you are correct.

But you havent proved what you know.

I have to myself and that's what counts.
Trying to prove anything to you people is not my aim. I'm more than happy to engage you and your posse because the more you people play games the more the genuine people see it and realise it's time to question what they were indoctrinated with in the same way you lot were but refuse to deviate from, even though you know it's as dodgy as all hell.

Even after being shown to be wrong repeatedly, you will still claim you are correct.

You have never once shown me I'm wrong.
Claiming it is all well and good but it means nothing.