What would change your mind?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3210 on: January 21, 2021, 03:56:31 AM »

Why are you unable to tell us what magic stops the blue line, or what magic causes the Earth to have a light to dark blend instead of a clearly visible edge?

I gave you the instructions. A level scope and the crosshairs. This is to ensure you do not look down from the crosshairs towards the ground and instead look directly level through a set up crosshair and then two scopes....like this.



This ensures you do not angle your view.
It's my fail safe method to stop the duping.
This has become a major problem to you lot because you can't figure a way around it.

I'm pretty sure if you can find a way, no matter how silly it is, you'll attempt to show it, just like this straw on the globe effort that gets a 1 out of 10.



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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3211 on: January 21, 2021, 04:01:13 AM »


Why? You still haven't even explained why you need a straw in the first place to see the edge of an object.

You say you can't see the edge of a ball while standing on it, well I have shown that you can in fact see the edge of objects.

Are you getting confused with your "can't see the ground though a level tube" experiment?  This is not the same.

Why don't you take some pictures and explain what you're trying to prove.
Let's make this more clear, as if you don't already know.

You see, if I was to walk up a small gradient and then decide to place a level tube looking at that hill, I'm going to see that hill.
If I was to get to the top of that hill and level the tube, I wouldn't be seeing any ground below it.

Soooo, just like you did with the tube pic you decided to do it with the straw, placing it below the curve instead of on the curve.

Your dishonesty reeks to high heaven.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3212 on: January 21, 2021, 04:49:39 AM »


Why? You still haven't even explained why you need a straw in the first place to see the edge of an object.

You say you can't see the edge of a ball while standing on it, well I have shown that you can in fact see the edge of objects.

Are you getting confused with your "can't see the ground though a level tube" experiment?  This is not the same.

Why don't you take some pictures and explain what you're trying to prove.
Let's make this more clear, as if you don't already know.

You see, if I was to walk up a small gradient and then decide to place a level tube looking at that hill, I'm going to see that hill.
If I was to get to the top of that hill and level the tube, I wouldn't be seeing any ground below it.

Soooo, just like you did with the tube pic you decided to do it with the straw, placing it below the curve instead of on the curve.

Your dishonesty reeks to high heaven.

You are so very very confused. Forget about your tube obsession for one second. Ok? Put down the tube and back away slowly.

You have said multiple times you can't see the edge of a globe you are standing on. You have said their is no horizon, no edge.

You are claiming that the existence of a horizon proves a flat earth, because you think round balls have no edges and no horizon.

The pictures are to disprove that.  It has nothing to do with tubes. The globe photo is to prove that yes, balls like any solid object has edges. It's also called a horizon.

You need to stop, and think very hard for a while until you get this, ok?

tldr; You can see the edge of a ball that you are standing on, this picture is an example of that. See the edge? Of the ball?


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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3213 on: January 21, 2021, 06:52:46 AM »

You are so very very confused. Forget about your tube obsession for one second. Ok? Put down the tube and back away slowly.

You have said multiple times you can't see the edge of a globe you are standing on. You have said their is no horizon, no edge.
And there isn't. And you and every person should be under absolutely no illusions about it once a little bit of sit down and think time, without fear of peer pressure to the contrary.
And edge to a ball?....for crying out loud.


Quote from: JJA
You are claiming that the existence of a horizon proves a flat earth,
No I didn't. You claim that because I go against your global model you were indoctrinated, severely, into.

Just so you don't go into a frenzy, I did say the sea will give you a theoretical horizon.

Quote from: JJA
because you think round balls have no edges and no horizon.
Anyone should know this. How in the hell a ball can have an edge , is....well...think on it.


Quote from: JJA
The pictures are to disprove that.
The prove nothing that you push.

Quote from: JJA
  It has nothing to do with tubes. The globe photo is to prove that yes, balls like any solid object has edges.
Well, you failed miserably. Absolutely miserably.

Quote from: JJA
It's also called a horizon.
Think about that for a little bit. HORIZON. Horizontal.
I'll let you ponder it.


Quote from: JJA
You need to stop, and think very hard for a while until you get this, ok?

I've done all the thinking on this stuff. The bits you can't get take little time to understand.

Quote from: JJA
tldr; You can see the edge of a ball that you are standing on, this picture is an example of that. See the edge? Of the ball?

There is no edge.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3214 on: January 21, 2021, 07:12:32 AM »

You are so very very confused. Forget about your tube obsession for one second. Ok? Put down the tube and back away slowly.

You have said multiple times you can't see the edge of a globe you are standing on. You have said their is no horizon, no edge.
And there isn't. And you and every person should be under absolutely no illusions about it once a little bit of sit down and think time, without fear of peer pressure to the contrary.
And edge to a ball?....for crying out loud.


Quote from: JJA
You are claiming that the existence of a horizon proves a flat earth,
No I didn't. You claim that because I go against your global model you were indoctrinated, severely, into.

Just so you don't go into a frenzy, I did say the sea will give you a theoretical horizon.

Quote from: JJA
because you think round balls have no edges and no horizon.
Anyone should know this. How in the hell a ball can have an edge , is....well...think on it.


Quote from: JJA
The pictures are to disprove that.
The prove nothing that you push.

Quote from: JJA
  It has nothing to do with tubes. The globe photo is to prove that yes, balls like any solid object has edges.
Well, you failed miserably. Absolutely miserably.

Quote from: JJA
It's also called a horizon.
Think about that for a little bit. HORIZON. Horizontal.
I'll let you ponder it.


Quote from: JJA
You need to stop, and think very hard for a while until you get this, ok?

I've done all the thinking on this stuff. The bits you can't get take little time to understand.

Quote from: JJA
tldr; You can see the edge of a ball that you are standing on, this picture is an example of that. See the edge? Of the ball?

There is no edge.

Do you really not understand what 'the edge of an object' or a horizon is?  Why do simple words like edge and horizon send you into such a confused state?

You don't see an horizon on that ball?  Hint, it's where the ball stops... see the curved line?  Below it is ball.  Above it is no ball. 

What do you think that line is?  Do I need to explain what a line is to you as well?

Just so you don't go into a frenzy, here is one example of what you have been saying, just to remind you in case you get more confused.

Or, if you are willing to accept that the RE my global Earth does have a horizon and amend your claim to just be that this horizon wouldn't be visible through a level scope, do that and admit the RE my global Earth does have a horizon.
It would never have any horizon.

That is why I posted that picture. To show you that balls do have horizons. How can you not understand this?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3215 on: January 21, 2021, 07:53:07 AM »


Do you really not understand what 'the edge of an object' or a horizon is?  Why do simple words like edge and horizon send you into such a confused state?

You don't see an horizon on that ball?  Hint, it's where the ball stops... see the curved line?  Below it is ball.  Above it is no ball. 


Ball stops? Where is the edge of a ball?
Curved line for horizon?
What are you talking about?

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3216 on: January 21, 2021, 08:08:54 AM »
Do you really not understand what 'the edge of an object' or a horizon is?  Why do simple words like edge and horizon send you into such a confused state?

You don't see an horizon on that ball?  Hint, it's where the ball stops... see the curved line?  Below it is ball.  Above it is no ball. 
Ball stops? Where is the edge of a ball?
Curved line for horizon?
What are you talking about?

Lets take this slow.

See the ball in the picture? It's the part with the continents and water drawn on it. It takes up the bottom part of the picture.

See the top of the picture where there is no ball?

In between... what do you see?  Do you see a line?  A border?  It's where all the pretty colors stop, and the darkness starts.

That is a line.  An edge.  A horizon.  It's not a physical edge, it's the edge of what you can see, which is what we call a horizon.

This isn't rocket science. It's literally looking at the line where an object visually stops.  I'd try and explain self-occlusion but that would just add to your confusion I'm sure.

Hint... you need to take context into account when using and understanding words.


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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3217 on: January 21, 2021, 09:03:47 AM »

Lets take this slow.

See the ball in the picture? It's the part with the continents and water drawn on it. It takes up the bottom part of the picture.
Yes.


Quote from: JJA

See the top of the picture where there is no ball?
Yes.

Quote from: JJA

In between... what do you see?
A colourful convex curve against a dark concave curve.

Quote from: JJA

  Do you see a line?
No.

Quote from: JJA

 A border?
No.

Quote from: JJA

  It's where all the pretty colors stop, and the darkness starts.
Yes, I see that, as stated above.


Quote from: JJA

That is a line.
No, it's not.

Quote from: JJA

 An edge.
No, it's not.
Quote from: JJA

 A horizon.
Absolutely, not.
Quote from: JJA

  It's not a physical edge
Now you're getting there.

Quote from: JJA

, it's the edge of what you can see, which is what we call a horizon.
No, it's not.

Quote from: JJA

This isn't rocket science.
What is?


Quote from: JJA

 It's literally looking at the line where an object visually stops.
A theoretical curved or concave, line?

Quote from: JJA

  I'd try and explain self-occlusion but that would just add to your confusion I'm sure.
I'm waiting for you to explain this in a manner that appeals but feel free to explain the other, if you feel the need.


Quote from: JJA

Hint... you need to take context into account when using and understanding words.


What I need to take into account is you starting to be a bit more upfront and honest about stuff, instead of the pretence you put on.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3218 on: January 21, 2021, 09:31:47 AM »

Lets take this slow.

See the ball in the picture? It's the part with the continents and water drawn on it. It takes up the bottom part of the picture.
Yes.


Quote from: JJA

See the top of the picture where there is no ball?
Yes.

Quote from: JJA

In between... what do you see?
A colourful convex curve against a dark concave curve.

Quote from: JJA

  Do you see a line?
No.

Quote from: JJA

 A border?
No.

Quote from: JJA

  It's where all the pretty colors stop, and the darkness starts.
Yes, I see that, as stated above.


Quote from: JJA

That is a line.
No, it's not.

Quote from: JJA

 An edge.
No, it's not.
Quote from: JJA

 A horizon.
Absolutely, not.
Quote from: JJA

  It's not a physical edge
Now you're getting there.

Quote from: JJA

, it's the edge of what you can see, which is what we call a horizon.
No, it's not.

Quote from: JJA

This isn't rocket science.
What is?


Quote from: JJA

 It's literally looking at the line where an object visually stops.
A theoretical curved or concave, line?

Quote from: JJA

  I'd try and explain self-occlusion but that would just add to your confusion I'm sure.
I'm waiting for you to explain this in a manner that appeals but feel free to explain the other, if you feel the need.


Quote from: JJA

Hint... you need to take context into account when using and understanding words.


What I need to take into account is you starting to be a bit more upfront and honest about stuff, instead of the pretence you put on.

What is clear now, is your problem is you don't understand what words mean, and have trouble figuring out simple concepts.  I'm not sure if it's intentional or you simply don't have the capacity to understand what a border is.

A line, an outline, a horizon, an edge, a border... those are all valid descriptions of what is between the ball and the not-ball.

You disagreeing with all of these means you simply don't understand any of them.

No wonder you have trouble understanding the view through a tube, or what a ball looks like. 

You almost got it though... you managed to see a 'colorful convex curve' but don't seem to understand what a curve is. Hint... it's a line.

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Stash

  • 7034
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3219 on: January 21, 2021, 09:34:45 AM »
JJA, do you start your day off looking through a used dunny roll? No. So, we don't all experience that daily, do we? I don't see 50 pages of people looking through used toilet rolls and straws to be overly enjoyable, but whatever floats your boat, pal. 

There is a difference in values here, when a person's mind is completely shut off to anything outside their expectations. Did you make the adjustment like I suggested?

If you really enjoy taking photos of used dunny rolls and straws so much, can you at least do it in a way that proves what you are saying, and not keep doing it at your fav piblic toilet block with the holes in the cubicle walls? I don't want to have to show you up with my camera skills. Plus, can we get some side views of your globe? Please?

Gosh, every time I see a dunny roll I instinctively do the "Hole in Hand" trick:



So yeah, toilet paper/paper towel tubes are fun to play with. Where's your joy?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3220 on: January 21, 2021, 09:40:38 AM »

What is clear now, is your problem is you don't understand what words mean, and have trouble figuring out simple concepts.  I'm not sure if it's intentional or you simply don't have the capacity to understand what a border is.
Or maybe it's you that doesn't understand.

Quote from: JJA
A line, an outline, a horizon, an edge, a border... those are all valid descriptions of what is between the ball and the not-ball.
No, it's not.


Quote from: JJA
You disagreeing with all of these means you simply don't understand any of them.
No.
Me disagreeing with them means you don;t understand what you are talking about.

Quote from: JJA
No wonder you have trouble understanding the view through a tube, or what a ball looks like.
I understand both. I await the day (with patience) when you finally do.

 
Quote from: JJA
You almost got it though... you managed to see a 'colorful convex curve' but don't seem to understand what a curve is. Hint... it's a line.
The convex or the concave, as viewed?

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3221 on: January 21, 2021, 09:58:36 AM »

What is clear now, is your problem is you don't understand what words mean, and have trouble figuring out simple concepts.  I'm not sure if it's intentional or you simply don't have the capacity to understand what a border is.
Or maybe it's you that doesn't understand.

Quote from: JJA
A line, an outline, a horizon, an edge, a border... those are all valid descriptions of what is between the ball and the not-ball.
No, it's not.


Quote from: JJA
You disagreeing with all of these means you simply don't understand any of them.
No.
Me disagreeing with them means you don;t understand what you are talking about.

Quote from: JJA
No wonder you have trouble understanding the view through a tube, or what a ball looks like.
I understand both. I await the day (with patience) when you finally do.

 
Quote from: JJA
You almost got it though... you managed to see a 'colorful convex curve' but don't seem to understand what a curve is. Hint... it's a line.
The convex or the concave, as viewed?

It's convex, since it's the edge of a sphere. But why would I expect you to know that either?

Do you understand that a curve is just a line that bends?  So if you see a curve, you see a line. And a border is also what a line defines, and a horizon is the visible edge of an object.

How did you ever make it out of kindergarten?

Keep claiming a ball doesn't have a visible edge.  It's making me laugh, which I need after 2020.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3222 on: January 21, 2021, 10:15:21 AM »
It's convex, since it's the edge of a sphere. But why would I expect you to know that either?
You mentioned seeing your so called edge against a dark background that made it so, by your reckoning.
I asked you if  your line was convex or concave...or is it both, or none.
Theoretical?

Quote from: JJA
Do you understand that a curve is just a line that bends?
No, I don't...and if you do, then you have issues.

Quote from: JJA
So if you see a curve, you see a line.
A theoretical line as long as it's got a contrasting background....right?


Quote from: JJA
And a border is also what a line defines, and a horizon is the visible edge of an object.
No, it's not.


Quote from: JJA
How did you ever make it out of kindergarten?
I never went to kindergarten.

Quote from: JJA
Keep claiming a ball doesn't have a visible edge.
I will, because it doesn't.
Quote from: JJA
It's making me laugh, which I need after 2020.
Good for you. It's best to keep happy.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3223 on: January 21, 2021, 10:53:32 AM »
It's convex, since it's the edge of a sphere. But why would I expect you to know that either?
You mentioned seeing your so called edge against a dark background that made it so, by your reckoning.
I asked you if  your line was convex or concave...or is it both, or none.
Theoretical?

I answered you already.  It's concave because it's the edge of a sphere.  Do you even understand what convex and concave mean? Considering they have no relevancy to the discussion at hand, I have to assume you have no clue. You can have a concave or convex horizon, or curve, or border.

Quote from: JJA
Do you understand that a curve is just a line that bends?
No, I don't...and if you do, then you have issues.

Read a dictionary.

curve - noun - a line or outline which gradually deviates from being straight for some or all of its length.

Until you understand what simple, common words mean, the rest of your argument is senseless. You need some serious education.

Quote from: JJA
And a border is also what a line defines, and a horizon is the visible edge of an object.
No, it's not.

I'd love to hear your definition for all those words, since you disagree with every dictionary on the planet. Where do you get your definitions from?

Can you explain what the following words actually mean, instead of simply denying their actual definitions?

Border.

Line.

Horizon.

Edge.

I am so very curious what you think all of those mean.

Quote from: JJA
How did you ever make it out of kindergarten?
I never went to kindergarten.

Did you make it through high school?  College?  Genuinely curious now.

Quote from: JJA
Keep claiming a ball doesn't have a visible edge.
I will, because it doesn't.
Quote from: JJA
It's making me laugh, which I need after 2020.
Good for you. It's best to keep happy.

You are surely a fount of amusement and bemusement.

You know... I have a theory. Maybe sceptimatic needs glasses? If he has really bad vision, all spheres and balls would just be fuzzy blurs with no discernable edge. And it would also explain how he kept claiming a curve was straight. And why he can't seem to take pictures, or post them.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3224 on: January 21, 2021, 12:48:05 PM »
Why are you unable to tell us what magic stops the blue line, or what magic causes the Earth to have a light to dark blend instead of a clearly visible edge?
I gave you the instructions.
And JJA carried out the experiment according to your instructions. You then dismissed that as fake and made your instructions more complex, and a smaller FOV, making it more equivalent to an 11 foot long tube rather than just a standard tube you find in a kitchen, potentially to try to make the FOV so small you can't see the ground.
And this needless complexity does nothing to ensure the tubes are actually level, so if the experiment was carried out and still showed you were wrong, you would just dismiss it as fake and make more ridiculous demands.

Again, what stops something like this:


And no, your extra cross hair wont help with that either.

It does not ensure you don't angle your view.
It is just a needless complexity likely to make no one want to do the experiment so you can pretend you have won, while also reducing the FOV making it harder to see the ground.

Meanwhile, my logical argument against your nonsense remains unchallenged.

Again, what magic stops the blue line?
Unless you have an answer, there is no reason to think a tube magically gives you your magic parallel tunnel vision.
And again, the fact that you can see more of an object that is further away through the same tube shows that you are not seeing parallel.

If I was to get to the top of that hill and level the tube, I wouldn't be seeing any ground below it.
That is your baseless claim, which has been refuted by the logical argument you refuse to engage with, and by the evidence provided by JJA.

Stop just asserting the same BS, and start trying to defend it.

Your dishonesty reeks to high heaven.
Projecting yet again.

You are so very very confused. Forget about your tube obsession for one second. Ok? Put down the tube and back away slowly.
You have said multiple times you can't see the edge of a globe you are standing on. You have said their is no horizon, no edge.
And there isn't. And you and every person should be under absolutely no illusions about it once a little bit of sit down and think time, without fear of peer pressure to the contrary.
And edge to a ball?....for crying out loud.
We are under no illusions about it.
All balls have clearly visible edges.
Why should Earth be any different?

How in the hell a ball can have an edge
You have seen plenty of pictures of balls in this thread.
And what did they all have in common?
There is a clear division between the ball and not the ball.
That is an edge.

A ball is pretty much all edge.

Quote from: JJA
It has nothing to do with tubes. The globe photo is to prove that yes, balls like any solid object has edges.
Well, you failed miserably.
Projecting again.
Again, you clearly see a region where the ball is, and clearly see a region where the ball is not. There is a clear separation between the 2.
That is the edge.

Forget your semantic BS about if that edge is real or theoretical. It is a clearly visible edge to the ball.
It is not a blend from light to dark like you claim Earth should have.

Think about that for a little bit. HORIZON. Horizontal.
Notice how they are 2 different words?
They don't need to mean the same thing.

Or do you think orienting something means you need to put it in Asia? (i.e. the Orient)?
Because that is even simpler. Orient, Orient.

I've done all the thinking on this stuff. The bits you can't get take little time to understand.
You mean the bits you can't get takes very little time to understand, but it requires you to not hate the RE so much that you will use whatever dishonest BS you can to dismiss it.

Perhaps this will make it easier:

See that red line? That is an edge of the ball. That is the "horizon" in this picture.

It doesn't matter what semantic BS you wish to invoke.
It is a clear separation between the ball and the surroundings.
This is just like the horizon which is observed in reality.

Now with this ball clearly having an edge/horizon, why shouldn't the RE?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3225 on: January 21, 2021, 12:54:17 PM »
You've also been told.

LMAO, Sceppy, how do you screw up something so simple?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3226 on: January 21, 2021, 12:59:27 PM »
Here you go.

BEHOLD, A STRAW!

You can still see the edge. What did you expect?

Well, go on... lets see what extra conditions you will whine about and demand and excuses you come up with now.
Actually just cut the middle section out of the straw and use 3 sets of crosshairs and Sceppy should consider it legit.

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JJA

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  • Math is math!
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3227 on: January 21, 2021, 01:24:38 PM »
Here you go.

BEHOLD, A STRAW!

You can still see the edge. What did you expect?

Well, go on... lets see what extra conditions you will whine about and demand and excuses you come up with now.
Actually just cut the middle section out of the straw and use 3 sets of crosshairs and Sceppy should consider it legit.

That's all you think it would take?  I love your optimism!   :P

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Lemmiwinks

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3228 on: January 21, 2021, 03:05:32 PM »
It's convex, since it's the edge of a sphere. But why would I expect you to know that either?
You mentioned seeing your so called edge against a dark background that made it so, by your reckoning.
I asked you if  your line was convex or concave...or is it both, or none.
Theoretical?

Quote from: JJA
Do you understand that a curve is just a line that bends?
No, I don't...and if you do, then you have issues.

Quote from: JJA
So if you see a curve, you see a line.
A theoretical line as long as it's got a contrasting background....right?


Quote from: JJA
And a border is also what a line defines, and a horizon is the visible edge of an object.
No, it's not.


Quote from: JJA
How did you ever make it out of kindergarten?
I never went to kindergarten.

Quote from: JJA
Keep claiming a ball doesn't have a visible edge.
I will, because it doesn't.
Quote from: JJA
It's making me laugh, which I need after 2020.
Good for you. It's best to keep happy.

After all these years, especially the last 4, it's nice to see that you can still be a constant septic.

You are simply playing word games now, the delineation between what is that globe and what isn't is finite and relative to the observer. You intuitively know this, you're just being incredibly obtuse, which is very very you.

Just because you will only accept that an edge is a hard cut off of something, doesn't mean that's true. I hold up a baseball and to everyone that observes that baseball from any angle (remember, the edge is finite and relative to the observer) it will have a clearly observable edge.

You muppet.
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3229 on: January 21, 2021, 09:12:38 PM »
Did you make it through high school?  College?  Genuinely curious now.

I'll let you decide that. You're scraping your own barrel. You're lost.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 26210
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3230 on: January 21, 2021, 09:16:39 PM »
Why are you unable to tell us what magic stops the blue line, or what magic causes the Earth to have a light to dark blend instead of a clearly visible edge?
I gave you the instructions.
And JJA carried out the experiment according to your instructions. You then dismissed that as fake and made your instructions more complex, and a smaller FOV, making it more equivalent to an 11 foot long tube rather than just a standard tube you find in a kitchen, potentially to try to make the FOV so small you can't see the ground.
And this needless complexity does nothing to ensure the tubes are actually level, so if the experiment was carried out and still showed you were wrong, you would just dismiss it as fake and make more ridiculous demands.

Again, what stops something like this:


The hanging crosshair stops something like that.
This is what JJA showed and then used an angled look to the ground, instead of a direct look through the crosshairs on a level.

The whole reason as to why I showed you the diagram to stop this duping.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3231 on: January 21, 2021, 09:18:38 PM »


Perhaps this will make it easier:

See that red line? That is an edge of the ball. That is the "horizon" in this picture.

It doesn't matter what semantic BS you wish to invoke.
It is a clear separation between the ball and the surroundings.
This is just like the horizon which is observed in reality.


Another dupe. What is it with you people?
Place the straw front edge directly on the line and get back to me.
Ensure it's levelled.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3232 on: January 21, 2021, 09:20:28 PM »
You've also been told.

LMAO, Sceppy, how do you screw up something so simple?
Nothing screwed up. This is how your nonsense globe would be and you know it.
It makes no sense to you because your globe makes no sense....but you just can't see it.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3233 on: January 21, 2021, 10:37:02 PM »
The hanging crosshair stops something like that.
No it doesn't.
And before that you just added a second tube for no reason at all.

But dealing with the crosshair:
It likely wouldn't all be visible. meaning it could be set at an angle and tied up out of frame.

If it was all in frame, the angle it would be tilted would be so slight you wouldn't be able to tell.

This is what JJA showed and then used an angled look to the ground
No, he had a level tube, and just showed you were wrong.

The whole reason as to why I showed you the diagram to stop this duping.
Again, all it does is add needless complexity and reduce the FOV. It in no way helps to stop any alleged duping. As evidence by even you being unwilling to do the experiment or commit to the results of someone else doing it by saying if they do, and show all those crosshairs you will simply admit you are wrong.

And again, if you want to stop the duping, quit the BS appeals to ridiculous experiments and either do them yourself and post the results, or deal with the simple logical arguments.

Again, what magic stops the blue line?
Until there is something to stop it or bend it it should continue and hit the eye, meaning you CAN see things which are below the level of a level tube.

Perhaps this will make it easier:

See that red line? That is an edge of the ball. That is the "horizon" in this picture.
It doesn't matter what semantic BS you wish to invoke.
It is a clear separation between the ball and the surroundings.
This is just like the horizon which is observed in reality.
Another dupe. What is it with you people?
No, not another dupe, just another pathetic deflection from you.

The red line is drawn over the clear separation between the ball and the region that is not the ball.

Again, regardless of what semantic BS you want to invoke, that is a clear separation, i.e. a horizon, for a round object.
It is not the magical blend you claim should exist.

Nothing screwed up. This is how your nonsense globe would be and you know it.
Only if you think we see in 1D, rather than having a FOV.

Again, if you were honest you would draw it with actual FOVs, and as soon as a curve gets involved that means either drawing it to scale, or drawing it with the FOV significantly exaggerated.

It makes no sense to you because your globe makes no sense....but you just can't see it.
The reason we "just can't see it" is because all you can do to attack it is to continually spout the same refuted assertions and the same pathetic strawmen.

As an actual example, for your second diagram, this would be what an actual globe Earth would be like:


Notice a key part?
Instead of pretending we magically only see 1 line (which would go against all observable evidence and simple rational thought), it instead has something far more consistent with reality, an actual FOV showing the range of angles you see.
It even has 3 different FOVs, using 2 angles and 2 heights, showing how changing the height and FOV changes if the building and horizon is visible.

If you were honestly trying to represent the RE, you would also have an angular FOV, rather than pretending we only see in a straight line.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3234 on: January 21, 2021, 11:26:16 PM »
The hanging crosshair stops something like that.
No it doesn't.
And before that you just added a second tube for no reason at all.


The second tube with a picture of the set up was to ensure the tubes weren't configured like you showed them.
The crosshair hanging behind them both was to add a level element to the view into those two tubes, so as to ensure that the situation you gave, doesn't happen.

This is exactly why JJA won't do it. He's trying to figure out a way to dupe it and he's struggling to make it look legitimate.


Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3235 on: January 21, 2021, 11:33:56 PM »
The second tube with a picture of the set up was to ensure the tubes weren't configured like you showed them.
And as pointed out, the second tube does not prevent that.

The crosshair hanging behind them both was to add a level element to the view into those two tubes, so as to ensure that the situation you gave, doesn't happen.
And as pointed out, the cross hair or other "level" elements will not prevent that. Not unless you are easily able to tell if it isn't level with the view, such a water level, which was used to prove the horizon is below eye level.

This is exactly why JJA won't do it.
Are you sure it isn't because he realises you will still just dismiss it as fake and throw in more BS?

Like I said, why don't you do the simple experiment I suggested?
Or, why don't you answer the questions you continue to avoid?

Again, what magic stops the blue line. Until you have an answer there is no justification at all for your insane claim that you magically can't see anything below the tube.

Likewise, why should the RE have a blend from light to dark instead of a clearly visible edge like in so many images?

And why do you continually pretend we magically only see 1 line rather than accepting an angular FOV?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3236 on: January 21, 2021, 11:52:18 PM »
The second tube with a picture of the set up was to ensure the tubes weren't configured like you showed them.
And as pointed out, the second tube does not prevent that.
 
Hence why I added in the hanging crosshair.
It's harder to carry od the unlevel set up with two scopes but, as you mention, it doesn't stop it happening. The hanging crosshair does.
And you know it and that's why you're avoiding it.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3237 on: January 22, 2021, 12:38:18 AM »
Hence why I added in the hanging crosshair.
And as I pointed out, THAT WONT STOP SOMEONE FAKING IT!
All it does is make the experiment harder, regardless of if you want to fake it or not.

Again, if you don't want someone to be able to fake it, what you need is something self levelling, like a water filled loop which clearly demonstrated the horizon is below eye level.
Of course, you could never accept something like that, because that would require admitting you have already been shown to be wrong.

And you know it and that's why you're avoiding it.
No, I'm "avoiding" it because it serves no purpose. The evidence has already been provided that shows you are wrong, and you refuse to accept it. Any evidence that is provided you just dismiss as fake. Even if I went and did all that, you would claim it is fake. Maybe you will claim the hill is actually going up, not down. You will come up with some excuse to dismiss it.

That is why I prefer sticking to the logic, rather than trying to appeal to experiments you just ignore.
Unlike the experiments you can't simply dismiss the logic as fake. You would need to show an actual problem with it.
That is why you continually cling to convoluted experiments and avoid logic at all costs.

Simple logic demands that the blue line continues as there is nothing to stop it or deflect. This means it continues and hits the eye. This means you CAN see objects that are below the level of the tube.

Likewise, simple logic dictates that the round Earth should have a clearly visible edge (again, semantic BS aside), not some magic blend from light to dark.
The only way to have it produce a blend from light to dark is if the air obstructed the view, and if that was the case, with the air obstructing the view in a short enough distance that it does so before the horizon, then you would also have such a blur on a FE, and the only hope to have a horizon is to have a smaller round Earth.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3238 on: January 22, 2021, 04:05:23 AM »
Did you make it through high school?  College?  Genuinely curious now.

I'll let you decide that. You're scraping your own barrel. You're lost.

Well, since you surrendered and gave up even trying to answer any of my questions I suppose I'll have to guess that no you didn't, or you didn't pay attention.

I'm pretty sure they teach people what the shape of a ball is in high school. How you failed to learn that is a mystery.

So where are the pictures of your experiment? Why so scared to show your work? Don't be shy.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3239 on: January 22, 2021, 06:25:47 AM »

And as I pointed out, THAT WONT STOP SOMEONE FAKING IT!
All it does is make the experiment harder, regardless of if you want to fake it or not.

It only makes it marginally harder to set up but massively harder to cheat...and you know it...and so does JJA, which is why he went and done the globe experiment after telling me he wasn't going to do the one I set up.
It stinks of dishonestly, no matter what you say.