What would change your mind?

Straight lines are straight lines.

Yep and a level tube offers this.

Ok thanks for another avoidance at addressing the question.

Ok thanks for another avoidance at addressing the question.

No avoidance.

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 11, 2021, 05:04:29 AM

Straight lines are straight lines.

Yep and a level tube offers this.

No, I showed pretty clearly that a level tube does not show that at all.  Here, I'll post it again in case you forgot what performing and documenting an actual experiment looks like.

Why won't you post the pictures and details of your own experiment? Show us how it's done right with all your tubes and crosshairs and plumb lines.

Why are you afraid or incapable of doing your own experiment and showing it?

Straight lines are straight lines.
Take your head.
Level it.
Look at the pciture.
Tilt your head slightly.
What changed?
Doss the picture care your head isnt screwed on straight?

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 11, 2021, 05:16:02 AM

Ok thanks for another avoidance at addressing the question.

No avoidance.

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 11, 2021, 05:04:29 AM

Straight lines are straight lines.

Yep and a level tube offers this.

I see two qiestion marks with zero response to them.
Looks loke avoidance to everyone here.

Maybe lets try a different appraoch.
What does leveling tube do.
Do you believe that the light rays show are the only light rays?

If the tube changes position, you will see different rays of lightcorrect?

If the tube changes position, you will see different rays of lightcorrect?

Correct.

Ok so then a level tube doesnt magically change the scenario as new rays of light will enter the tube and are at same angling as before
Tube angle doesnt do nothing.

Ok so then a level tube doesnt magically change the scenario as new rays of light will enter the tube and are at same angling as before
Tube angle doesnt do nothing.

Movement of a level tube will change the scene. It will alter the distance of the level vision through it.

What exactly do I need to get out of?

I know what I'm doing and what I'm seeing and how and why I'm seeing it.  I don't expect you to agree or accept any of that because your belief of what light is, what stars are and why I am seeing the spectrum I do is obviously different to mine.

What I am asking you to do is explain what you think the stars are and why I see a different pattern of lines in different stars. 

You are not getting out of that explanation either.

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 11, 2021, 05:53:10 AM

Ok so then a level tube doesnt magically change the scenario as new rays of light will enter the tube and are at same angling as before
Tube angle doesnt do nothing.

Movement of a level tube will change the scene. It will alter the distance of the level vision through it.

As has been explained before, you don't just see 'level' through a tube.  You see up, down, sideways and in all directions. Human vision is not one dimensional.

Where are the pictures of your experiment?  If we could see them, maybe we could figure out what has you confused.

Why not post them?

What exactly do I need to get out of?

I know what I'm doing and what I'm seeing and how and why I'm seeing it.  I don't expect you to agree or accept any of that because your belief of what light is, what stars are and why I am seeing the spectrum I do is obviously different to mine.

What I am asking you to do is explain what you think the stars are and why I see a different pattern of lines in different stars. 

You are not getting out of that explanation either.

I accept you have no answer to it.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 11, 2021, 06:01:49 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 11, 2021, 05:53:10 AM

Ok so then a level tube doesnt magically change the scenario as new rays of light will enter the tube and are at same angling as before
Tube angle doesnt do nothing.

Movement of a level tube will change the scene. It will alter the distance of the level vision through it.

As has been explained before, you don't just see 'level' through a tube.  You see up, down, sideways and in all directions. Human vision is not one dimensional.

Where are the pictures of your experiment?  If we could see them, maybe we could figure out what has you confused.

Why not post them?

Yes you do see up down, left and right and all around the tube.
Have you not been paying attention?

What you do not see is what is below that tube internal diameter.

I accept you have no answer to it.

And I accept that you obviously haven't a clue what you are talking about.  Just tell me what you think the stars actually are then and why.

Quote from: JJA on January 11, 2021, 06:19:28 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 11, 2021, 06:01:49 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 11, 2021, 05:53:10 AM

Ok so then a level tube doesnt magically change the scenario as new rays of light will enter the tube and are at same angling as before
Tube angle doesnt do nothing.

Movement of a level tube will change the scene. It will alter the distance of the level vision through it.

As has been explained before, you don't just see 'level' through a tube.  You see up, down, sideways and in all directions. Human vision is not one dimensional.

Where are the pictures of your experiment?  If we could see them, maybe we could figure out what has you confused.

Why not post them?

Yes you do see up down, left and right and all around the tube.
Have you not been paying attention?

What you do not see is what is below that tube internal diameter.

Yes you do.  Did you miss my pictures?  You can clearly see more than the tube diameter.

You are making no sense.  You admit you can see down, but then say you can't see beyond the tubes size?  If you are looking down, just what are you looking at?

Look at my picture again.  See how it shows MUCH more than the internal tube diameter.  I could fit a thousand of those tubes in the area shown at the end of the tube.



If your experiments show something different, post them.

Why won't you show your experiments?

Quote

I accept you have no answer to it.

And I accept that you obviously haven't a clue what you are talking about.  Just tell me what you think the stars actually are then and why.

You placed a long essay out. I asked you a few questions. You can't answer them so don't waste your time going any further.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 11, 2021, 06:30:36 AM

Yes you do see up down, left and right and all around the tube.
Have you not been paying attention?

What you do not see is what is below that tube internal diameter.

Yes you do.  Did you miss my pictures?  You can clearly see more than the tube diameter.

No you can't. You only see what's compressed into that diameter.

Simple question.  Let's try it again.  You maintain I have no clue.  I get that but that's not unusual for you is it. According to you none of us have a clue about anything..  SO you tell me what YOU think the stars are and what evidence you have to support your claim.

If you can't or won't then I will accept that you have no clue.

How are you seeing a spectrum of colour through a vacuum

Light travel through a vacuum since it is an electromagnetic wave and hence doesn't need a medium to travel through.

If someone shone a torch at your face from  50 feet away, you would see a small light but that light would engulf you and quite a wide area around you

The torch emits light.  We will assume it is white light so if I held a prism in the path of the light I would see a spectrum.  A continuous spectrum that is.  I would prefer them not to shine it in my face.  Into my spectroscope would be preferable.   

What I want to know from you is why I see lines in the spectra of stars, and why the line patterns are different between different colours of stars.

 

Quote from: JJA on January 11, 2021, 06:38:48 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 11, 2021, 06:30:36 AM

Yes you do see up down, left and right and all around the tube.
Have you not been paying attention?

What you do not see is what is below that tube internal diameter.

Yes you do.  Did you miss my pictures?  You can clearly see more than the tube diameter.

No you can't. You only see what's compressed into that diameter.

I'm not sure you understand what the words you are using mean. 

If I look at my house 2 inch tube, are you saying my house is only 2 inches tall and got compressed?  I can assure you my house is very tall and much bigger than any tube I've ever looked through.

I can see things bigger than 2 inches through a 2 inch tube.

Why won't you post your pictures and show us what you are seeing?  Show everyone how you do a proper experiment.

I think this foolio is saying directly directly below the tube.
Which is irrelevant.
Because when i look straight without a tube, i cant see my feet.
So what ?
It proves nothing of the original of 1inch claim and also dossnt reuqire two tubes and a vert plumb line.

Simple question.  Let's try it again.  You maintain I have no clue.  I get that but that's not unusual for you is it. According to you none of us have a clue about anything..  SO you tell me what YOU think the stars are and what evidence you have to support your claim.

If you can't or won't then I will accept that you have no clue.

You are well within your rights to accept I have no clue what the so called stars really are. I can only give my best guess, which I have done on many occasions.

How about you tell me how you know they are what you're told?

Quote

How are you seeing a spectrum of colour through a vacuum

Light travel through a vacuum since it is an electromagnetic wave and hence doesn't need a medium to travel through.

How can a wave travel through your vacuum of, nothing?

Quote

If someone shone a torch at your face from  50 feet away, you would see a small light but that light would engulf you and quite a wide area around you

The torch emits light.  We will assume it is white light so if I held a prism in the path of the light I would see a spectrum.  A continuous spectrum that is.  I would prefer them not to shine it in my face.  Into my spectroscope would be preferable. 

Let's try this one again.
You go along with the theory that your stars are huge and make your sun look like a speck, compared.
You see the light from each star as it was millions of years ago...or thousands,a s you're told, so how is this possible and why aren't you flooded with light on your Earth?

 

What I want to know from you is why I see lines in the spectra of stars, and why the line patterns are different between different colours of stars.

Explain how you do so that proves to you they are light years away and seen as in the past and not the present.

I'm not sure you understand what the words you are using mean. 

If I look at my house 2 inch tube, are you saying my house is only 2 inches tall and got compressed?

Yes, that's what I'm saying.
 If you see a picture of your house on your TV that is in your house, is the house on TV the same size as the house your TV is in, by your vision?

  I can assure you my house is very tall and much bigger than any tube I've ever looked through.

Yep, if you're not looking through that tube it fits into and you move towards it.

I can see things bigger than 2 inches through a 2 inch tube.

Yes you can. You can see things that are physically bigger than what you see through your tube if you take that tube away and move towards the object.

I think this foolio is saying directly directly below the tube.
Which is irrelevant.
Because when i look straight without a tube, i cant see my feet.
So what ?
It proves nothing of the original of 1inch claim and also dossnt reuqire two tubes and a vert plumb line.

Course you can see below when you do not use the tube. It's because you have a wider vision.
A classic case of you going right back to the beginning. I'm sat here smiling.

Quote from: JJA on January 11, 2021, 06:54:05 AM

I'm not sure you understand what the words you are using mean. 

If I look at my house 2 inch tube, are you saying my house is only 2 inches tall and got compressed?

Yes, that's what I'm saying.
 If you see a picture of your house on your TV that is in your house, is the house on TV the same size as the house your TV is in, by your vision?

Quote from: JJA

  I can assure you my house is very tall and much bigger than any tube I've ever looked through.

Yep, if you're not looking through that tube it fits into and you move towards it.

Quote from: JJA

I can see things bigger than 2 inches through a 2 inch tube.

Yes you can. You can see things that are physically bigger than what you see through your tube if you take that tube away and move towards the object.

Yes, if I see a picture of my house on my TV, my real house is still several stories tall.

You are making no sense again. What changes between looking at my house and then lifting up a tube to look through it?

I'm seeing the same thing.  The same light is reaching my eyes.

Why won't you just post your experimental pictures and show us what you are failing to describe?

The simple fact is I can see the ground through a level tube.  If you can't... why are you afraid to show us?

The simple fact is I can see the ground through a level tube.  If you can't... why are you afraid to show us?

No you can't.

Also, if you think the view of your house is the same from distance as it is being stood right next to it, then it's no wonder you're struggling.

Quote from: JJA on January 11, 2021, 07:47:04 AM

The simple fact is I can see the ground through a level tube.  If you can't... why are you afraid to show us?

No you can't.

Also, if you think the view of your house is the same from distance as it is being stood right next to it, then it's no wonder you're struggling.

I can see the ground through a level tube.  I've shown you many times.  Anyone else can too.  Here is it AGAIN.  See the ground?  Simple.



The real question is why won't you show us your own experiment?

What is it you're seeing and why are you desperately avoiding showing anyone?  What are you afraid of?  What are you hiding?  Why keep running away from the question?

I can only give my best guess, which I have done on many occasions

Which is?  Why do you have to rely on guesswork? 

Come on guys, one final push, then welcome to the 100 club!

Quote

I can only give my best guess, which I have done on many occasions

Which is?  Why do you have to rely on guesswork?

No answer to your so called stars then. Hmmm...and to think it's all on a platter for you.

No answer to your so called stars then.

Not from you so far no.  Why?

You asked some questions.  I answered them. Not to your satisfaction I'm sure but that's irrelevant.   So now it's your turn to answer my question.  What do you think the stars are and what makes them shine in your world/universe?

I know about the explanation given by mainstream astrophysics and my OWN observations support that entirely.  But what are your stars?   Stop avoiding answering questions you don't know the answers to.  I'll accept your guesses.

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 11, 2021, 07:10:55 AM

I think this foolio is saying directly directly below the tube.
Which is irrelevant.
Because when i look straight without a tube, i cant see my feet.
So what ?
It proves nothing of the original of 1inch claim and also dossnt reuqire two tubes and a vert plumb line.

Course you can see below when you do not use the tube. It's because you have a wider vision.
A classic case of you going right back to the beginning. I'm sat here smiling.

smiling from the amazing troll game you got on here.

You, jackass, were asked to restate your position so we don't go all the way back becuase it's become so convoluted.
you refused to do it and we have to go back and assume you're still on about the same thing.
or saying things so void of english or descirption we can only guess at your meaning.

luckily this is a forum and other people have provided diagrams, and all on record.

so i'll pick just the few claims related to this tube business.

your claim was someone couldn't see the
  ground through a tube,
   that the horizon rises to eye level and
     people don't see in 1dimension

Quote from: JackBlack on December 08, 2020, 03:45:34 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 08, 2020, 03:26:33 AM

Don't use angle down with level. It doesn't work for you, no matter how hard you try to make it work.

And again you appeal to a FOV of 0.
Remember, if you are looking level with a FOV greater than 0, then part of that will be angled down and part will be angled up.

Refusing to have any part angled down will never work, no matter how hard you try to make it work.

Again, here is a too scale diagram of the RE, with a FOV of 10 degrees. The observer is standing with the scope at 2 m above the surface:

That's a not your FOV through a 1 inch tube.

Your field of vision is specific to the tube itself from the central point to the inner walls all around that tube.
You are not spanning out any wider than that.

your instance was that the blue line doesn't exists or doesn't exist?
clarify.
or that people don't and do see in 1dimension

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 08, 2020, 08:44:16 AM

Quote from: JackBlack

So are you saying this:

Absolutely.

here someone's pointed out that a tube doesn't do anything but obstruct the field of view, which you've admitted is a thing, and has hand drawn in a tube, which oho does not consequently affect the fact horizon doesn't rise to eye level.





while still saying stupid things like people are unable to look down or have a field of view

Here's a quick diagram.   Genuine people....take time to understand what's being said with it.

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 06, 2021, 10:24:42 AM

you claim to understand yet every statement following you continue to beileve people see in 1dimension

You're making out one dimension to what I'm saying. I'm giving out nothing of the sort.
Tunnel vision is not one dimensional.
I've already mentioned a compressed FOV, so what's the issue?

no, i see NOOO contradictions here.
anyone else?