What would change your mind?

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2760 on: January 07, 2021, 12:22:09 AM »


Again
That doesnt level it with the items in front.

There are three axis of rotation.
Vertical horizontal and tilt.
Your plumb line with balancing pencil solves vert and tilt, not horizontal.

Keep failing at the most basic, nonround earth concepts.
Should we trust you with the shape of the world when you cant even comprehend simple things?
Engage your brain.

Do me a favour and google image search this phrase "pitch roll yaw".

Let me know how having two affects the 3rd.


Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2761 on: January 07, 2021, 12:34:13 AM »
The horison does not always rise to eye level. It is always at eye level.
No rising or falling. It is exactly at eye level.

But youve agreed that peoples height of eye level can change.
So he horizon must be moving with them for some reason.
Or youre wrong.
Which is it?

If its moving
Why is it moving or perceived to move?

The horizon will only move if the person  changes elevation. You've been told this, so how are you struggling?


i see you've removed your quote so i'll put it back in there and better highlight it so all can see your contradiction.

if the person moves, the eye level moves, therefore the horizon is moving.
if hte horizon is not really moving, then it is perceived to move.
why is there a perceived movement?
I haven't removed any quote and you know this.

sure
regardless of delete vs not delete then

answer the question still.
Nothing's been deleted but it's better for you to pretend in order to make it look like I'm deflecting, Mr dishonest.


This was the question (one of many that remain unaddressed)

if the person moves, the eye level moves, therefore the horizon is moving.
if hte horizon is not really moving, then it is perceived to move.
why is there a perceived movement?
Let me make this clear seeing as you want to change things up.

If you look out to sea, you see YOUR theoretical horizon line.
If the person next to you who is the same eye height, doing the same as you, he/she will see their own horizon (theoretical) line, which will be as near exact to what you see (assuming equal vision).
If you then decide to stand on the shoulders of the person next to you, then your horizon changes. You see farther to your horizon than the other person (assuming equal starting vision).

All you've done is changed your vantage point but the both of you now do not see the near exact horizon.
The higher you go the more distant horizon you see.

Why is this difficult for you to grasp?

Again
No ones changing anything
Just ponting out your contradictions...

Or
Possibly difficult to graso because you  refuse to apply any diagrms

Eitherway
None of what you just said explains why the perception is that horizon will rise to eye level.
The horizon does not rise to meet eye level in either the flat or round earth.
So your insistance of this premise starts you off on the wrong foot right away.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2762 on: January 07, 2021, 12:36:24 AM »
Do you see my plumb line has a cross, making a a vertically plumb and level crosshair?
Are you saying 5 sets of crosshairs can only align in a straight line along a 'level' line of sight, and cannot be aligned at any up or down angle other than level?

I'm not ignoring anything.
So what stops that blue line?
Do the experiment or don't. No need for further instruction.

No need to do an experiment that has no point.
Unless sceppy has new info to reveal.

Keep dodging
Almost at 100pg.
There's no point to anything that goes against a globe, with you people. That's nothing new to me and people like you have no wish to question that narrative you were set up with from the cradle to present.
I get it but only you can alter your own mindset, if you choose to step outside of the box.

There is no point.
Because your experiment ona flatearth with a near zero field of view will have a similar problem.
If you insist on seeing "plumb" level and not looking down, you wont see ground.
Parallel lines.
Look up the definition.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2763 on: January 07, 2021, 01:05:15 AM »
My experiment proves you do not see a downward curving horizon, meaning your Earth is absolutely 100% NOT the globe you think we walk upon.
So you're saying, if I line up these five sets of crosshairs, the 1st of which is a horizontal line across a plumb-bob string and the other 4 being at each end of 2 tubes (which according to you makes this line of sight level) that I should see the horizon centered on the crosshairs because the horizon is at eye-level... correct?


Do you see my plumb line has a cross, making a a vertically plumb and level crosshair?
Are you saying 5 sets of crosshairs can only align in a straight line along a 'level' line of sight, and cannot be aligned at any up or down angle other than level?

I'm not ignoring anything.
So what stops that blue line?
Do the experiment or don't. No need for further instruction.
You just ignored two questions.

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JackBlack

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2764 on: January 07, 2021, 01:11:09 AM »
All addressed.
Again, just what have you actually addressed? Because I don't see anything relevant to the topic that you have addressed.

You refuse to even address the refutation of your lies by answering a simple question.
Once more:
You start looking straight down towards a round Earth and slowly lift your head up until you are looking straight up at the sky.
What do you see between the land/sea of Earth and the sky?
How does it visually transition?

And you refuse to answer simple questions about the experiment you propose because you want an excuse to dismiss it later.
This shows you will not honestly address anything.
My experiment proves you do not see a downward curving horizon
No it doesn't. So far the only results provided clearly indicate you DO see the horizon/ground through a level tube, just like you would expect on a RE.
So it in no way proves Earth isn't round.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2765 on: January 07, 2021, 01:35:47 AM »
Clearly sceppy has been put into a corner and is retreating to his only fall back of "nu-uh".

Refuses to outline his own experiment.
Refuses to acknowledge the purpose of hisbexperiment.
Refuses to do his own experiment.
Refuses to provide hisbown diagram.

Done.

Unless he intends to reveal new information

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2766 on: January 07, 2021, 04:25:30 AM »


Again
That doesnt level it with the items in front.

There are three axis of rotation.
Vertical horizontal and tilt.
Your plumb line with balancing pencil solves vert and tilt, not horizontal.

Keep failing at the most basic, nonround earth concepts.
Should we trust you with the shape of the world when you cant even comprehend simple things?
Engage your brain.

Do me a favour and google image search this phrase "pitch roll yaw".

Let me know how having two affects the 3rd.
What are you getting at?
Are you going back to a pretence of me saying one dimensional?
Making your own nonsense up is doing you no favours.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2767 on: January 07, 2021, 04:26:52 AM »

No ones changing anything
Just ponting out your contradictions...


There are no contradictions.
What there is plenty of is twisting and misunderstanding from  your side. You create your own issues.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2768 on: January 07, 2021, 04:27:49 AM »
Do you see my plumb line has a cross, making a a vertically plumb and level crosshair?
Are you saying 5 sets of crosshairs can only align in a straight line along a 'level' line of sight, and cannot be aligned at any up or down angle other than level?

I'm not ignoring anything.
So what stops that blue line?
Do the experiment or don't. No need for further instruction.

No need to do an experiment that has no point.
Unless sceppy has new info to reveal.

Keep dodging
Almost at 100pg.
There's no point to anything that goes against a globe, with you people. That's nothing new to me and people like you have no wish to question that narrative you were set up with from the cradle to present.
I get it but only you can alter your own mindset, if you choose to step outside of the box.

There is no point.
Because your experiment ona flatearth with a near zero field of view will have a similar problem.
If you insist on seeing "plumb" level and not looking down, you wont see ground.
Parallel lines.
Look up the definition.
What are you talking about?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2769 on: January 07, 2021, 04:30:20 AM »
My experiment proves you do not see a downward curving horizon, meaning your Earth is absolutely 100% NOT the globe you think we walk upon.
So you're saying, if I line up these five  THREE sets of crosshairs, the 1st of which is a horizontal line across a plumb-bob string and the other 4 being at each end of 2 tubes (which according to you makes this line of sight level) that I should see the horizon centered on the crosshairs because the horizon is at eye-level... correct?


Do you see my plumb line has a cross, making a a vertically plumb and level crosshair?
Are you saying 5 sets of crosshairs can only align in a straight line along a 'level' line of sight, and cannot be aligned at any up or down angle other than level?

I'm not ignoring anything.
So what stops that blue line?
Do the experiment or don't. No need for further instruction.
You just ignored two questions.
Pay attention.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2770 on: January 07, 2021, 04:31:02 AM »
All addressed.
Again, just what have you actually addressed? Because I don't see anything relevant to the topic that you have addressed.


Don't worry yourself about it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2771 on: January 07, 2021, 04:31:53 AM »
Clearly sceppy has been put into a corner and is retreating to his only fall back of "nu-uh".

Refuses to outline his own experiment.
Refuses to acknowledge the purpose of hisbexperiment.
Refuses to do his own experiment.
Refuses to provide hisbown diagram.

Done.

Unless he intends to reveal new information
Make sure you stick to it.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2772 on: January 07, 2021, 06:11:19 AM »
I can't believe sceptimatic tells people to repeat his experiment that makes anybody who conducts it, look like a total fool, and people repeat it. It makes one wonder who the real idiots are in this thread.

Curiosity part of being human.  I've done the experiments for him (and others) here because it's fun.  I certainly don't expect them to change his mind, I do them for myself.

This isn't the only site I visit, and I do a lot more experiments and demonstrations for people about legitimate subjects that people are curious about.  Demonstrating scientific principles is enjoyable, no matter who is reading or watching them.

If you don't want to join in, that's fine.  Nobody is forcing you to do anything you don't want to.  Just have fun with whatever you do, which you clearly are. :)

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2773 on: January 07, 2021, 06:39:12 AM »
Such inciteful answers and ressponses.

Teflon sceppy teahcing us all one dodge at a time.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2774 on: January 07, 2021, 07:36:21 AM »
I can't believe sceptimatic tells people to repeat his experiment that makes anybody who conducts it, look like a total fool, and people repeat it. It makes one wonder who the real idiots are in this thread.

Curiosity part of being human.  I've done the experiments for him (and others) here because it's fun.  I certainly don't expect them to change his mind, I do them for myself.

This isn't the only site I visit, and I do a lot more experiments and demonstrations for people about legitimate subjects that people are curious about.  Demonstrating scientific principles is enjoyable, no matter who is reading or watching them.

If you don't want to join in, that's fine.  Nobody is forcing you to do anything you don't want to.  Just have fun with whatever you do, which you clearly are. :)

JJA, relax. I'm on nightshift, and am grumpy from sleep deprivation and trying to sleep in 38 degree heat. You realise I've tried the toilet roll experiment myself? Only to establish it's trickery, but nevertheless.

I'm surprised sceptimatic didn't demand we dip one end of the toilet roll in wet black enamel paint to put against our eye, to improve the effectiveness.


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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2775 on: January 07, 2021, 07:45:38 AM »

My experiment proves you do not see a downward curving horizon, meaning your Earth is absolutely 100% NOT the globe you think we walk upon.
[/quote]

But you haven't actually done or shown your experiment.  So you have proven nothing.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2776 on: January 07, 2021, 07:47:13 AM »
I can't believe sceptimatic tells people to repeat his experiment that makes anybody who conducts it, look like a total fool, and people repeat it. It makes one wonder who the real idiots are in this thread.

Curiosity part of being human.  I've done the experiments for him (and others) here because it's fun.  I certainly don't expect them to change his mind, I do them for myself.

This isn't the only site I visit, and I do a lot more experiments and demonstrations for people about legitimate subjects that people are curious about.  Demonstrating scientific principles is enjoyable, no matter who is reading or watching them.

If you don't want to join in, that's fine.  Nobody is forcing you to do anything you don't want to.  Just have fun with whatever you do, which you clearly are. :)

JJA, relax. I'm on nightshift, and am grumpy from sleep deprivation and trying to sleep in 38 degree heat. You realise I've tried the toilet roll experiment myself? Only to establish it's trickery, but nevertheless.

I'm surprised sceptimatic didn't demand we dip one end of the toilet roll in wet black enamel paint to put against our eye, to improve the effectiveness.

I'm relaxed, that was me not being angry.  You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

I do get told that a lot. :)

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2777 on: January 07, 2021, 08:12:12 AM »
I can't believe sceptimatic tells people to repeat his experiment that makes anybody who conducts it, look like a total fool, and people repeat it. It makes one wonder who the real idiots are in this thread.

Curiosity part of being human.  I've done the experiments for him (and others) here because it's fun.  I certainly don't expect them to change his mind, I do them for myself.

This isn't the only site I visit, and I do a lot more experiments and demonstrations for people about legitimate subjects that people are curious about.  Demonstrating scientific principles is enjoyable, no matter who is reading or watching them.

If you don't want to join in, that's fine.  Nobody is forcing you to do anything you don't want to.  Just have fun with whatever you do, which you clearly are. :)

JJA, relax. I'm on nightshift, and am grumpy from sleep deprivation and trying to sleep in 38 degree heat. You realise I've tried the toilet roll experiment myself? Only to establish it's trickery, but nevertheless.

I'm surprised sceptimatic didn't demand we dip one end of the toilet roll in wet black enamel paint to put against our eye, to improve the effectiveness.
Hats off to you. A bit of fun goes a long way. ;D

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2778 on: January 07, 2021, 08:13:17 AM »

My experiment proves you do not see a downward curving horizon, meaning your Earth is absolutely 100% NOT the globe you think we walk upon.

But you haven't actually done or shown your experiment.  So you have proven nothing.
I have and I know what's what.
You could easily do it and show the truth but you refuse because you were caught out.

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JJA

  • 6869
  • Math is math!
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2779 on: January 07, 2021, 10:12:48 AM »

My experiment proves you do not see a downward curving horizon, meaning your Earth is absolutely 100% NOT the globe you think we walk upon.

But you haven't actually done or shown your experiment.  So you have proven nothing.
I have and I know what's what.
You could easily do it and show the truth but you refuse because you were caught out.

You haven't caught me out on anything, you just keep claiming I'm lying and faking the images but have yet to point out ANY evidence. What about the photo proves it's fake?

As for your experiment, you keep claiming you performed it, but where are your photos?  You have shown nothing. Did the dog eat your homework?  ::)

You have provided ZERO evidence to back any of your claims up here.  Done nothing but call me a liar.


Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2780 on: January 07, 2021, 10:33:47 AM »

My experiment proves you do not see a downward curving horizon, meaning your Earth is absolutely 100% NOT the globe you think we walk upon.
So you're saying, if I line up these 3 (before you eventually change it to 5 once someone has done this experiment) sets of crosshairs, the 1st of which is a horizontal line across a plumb-bob string and the other 2 being at the ends of 2 tubes (which according to you makes this line of sight level) that I should see the horizon centered on the crosshairs because the horizon is at eye-level... correct?


Do you see my plumb line has a cross, making a a vertically plumb and level crosshair?
Are you saying 3 sets of crosshairs can only align in a straight line along a 'level' line of sight, and cannot be aligned at any up or down angle other than level?

I'm not ignoring anything.
So what stops that blue line?
Do the experiment or don't. No need for further instruction.
You just ignored two three questions.

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JackBlack

  • 21558
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2781 on: January 07, 2021, 12:26:50 PM »
All addressed.
Again, just what have you actually addressed? Because I don't see anything relevant to the topic that you have addressed.
Don't worry yourself about it.
And there you go ignoring everything again, because you know that honestly addressing any of it will show you are wrong.
Again:
You start looking straight down towards a round Earth and slowly lift your head up until you are looking straight up at the sky.
What do you see between the land/sea of Earth and the sky?
How does it visually transition?

Again
That doesnt level it with the items in front.
There are three axis of rotation.
Vertical horizontal and tilt.
Your plumb line with balancing pencil solves vert and tilt, not horizontal.

Keep failing at the most basic, nonround earth concepts.
Should we trust you with the shape of the world when you cant even comprehend simple things?
Engage your brain.
Do me a favour and google image search this phrase "pitch roll yaw".
Let me know how having two affects the 3rd.
What are you getting at?
Are you going back to a pretence of me saying one dimensional?
Making your own nonsense up is doing you no favours.
We will just focus on your nonsense, no need to make up any of our own.
What he is saying is quite clear, and is the same as he said before.

As we live in 3D, there are 3 orthogonal axis that you can rotate around (which really can be aligned anyway).
A vertical axis is for Yaw, this would be turning left or right.
A horizontal axis, passing from front to back, is for roll, this would be lowering one side while raising the other, i.e. lower your left side while raising your right.
Another horizon axis, passing from left to right, is for pitch, this would be for tilting to look further up or down.

Your plumbob setup only fixes roll. It in no way fixes pitch.
This means that even with that setup, you can still angle the camera up and down.
i.e. it does nothing except move the camera further back.

There are no contradictions.
There are plenty, you just choose to ignore them.
Like you claim that we can't see the ground through a level tube because magic makes the light come in parallel so through a 1 inch tube we only see 1 inch, but then for a distant object like a plane you claim we can see more than 1 inch.
That is a direct contradiction. Sure you try to cover it up with nonsensical BS, but there is no way to believe those 2 statements without a contradiction.

My experiment proves you do not see a downward curving horizon, meaning your Earth is absolutely 100% NOT the globe you think we walk upon.
But you haven't actually done or shown your experiment.  So you have proven nothing.
I have and I know what's what.
You could easily do it and show the truth but you refuse because you were caught out.
Really?
Where have you shown it?

Because plenty of us have done the experiment, or an equivalent one.
And guess what? the results show you are wrong. But unlike you, some have been good enough to post their results here for all to see.
And what is your response? Rejecting the evidence as a con-job and repeating the same outright lies.

You have no basis for your claims at all and even simple logic shows beyond any doubt that you are wrong.
Again, what magic stops the blue line from reaching the eye:


This simple question and image shows you don't magically just see parallel to the tube, and thus you can see ground.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2782 on: January 07, 2021, 05:40:30 PM »
@JackBlack

Quote
Again, what magic stops the blue line from reaching the eye:

IF I understand your question properly AND scepti's posit - the answer is more tubes in front of the first one!  I think that is why they felt they were so critical.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2021, 08:48:33 AM by jack44556677 »

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JJA

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  • Math is math!
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2783 on: January 07, 2021, 06:18:08 PM »
@JackBlack

Quote
Again, what magic stops the blue line from reaching the eye:

IF I understand your question properly AND scepti's posit - the answer is more tubes in front of the first one!  I think that is why he felt they were so critical.

I don't think you understand it right, because more tubes won't help.

He only felt two (is it now three?) tubes was critical well after pictures were posted proving him wrong.  Then he added more conditions, like multiple tubes. 

But more tubes can't save him.  You can add as many tubes as you like, that blue line will always exist.  All you can do is change the angle of the blue line, you can't make that blue line go away.  You can always see downward (or upward, or sideways) out of a non-infinite tube.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2784 on: January 07, 2021, 09:24:55 PM »
@JackBlack

Quote
Again, what magic stops the blue line from reaching the eye:

IF I understand your question properly AND scepti's posit - the answer is more tubes in front of the first one!  I think that is why he felt they were so critical.

I don't think you understand it right, because more tubes won't help.

He only felt two (is it now three?) tubes was critical well after pictures were posted proving him wrong.  Then he added more conditions, like multiple tubes. 

But more tubes can't save him.  You can add as many tubes as you like, that blue line will always exist.  All you can do is change the angle of the blue line, you can't make that blue line go away.  You can always see downward (or upward, or sideways) out of a non-infinite tube.
We are talking about a gradient and level sighting through a tube.

You cheated and it's clear to see why.

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JackBlack

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2785 on: January 07, 2021, 10:11:52 PM »
We are talking about a gradient and level sighting through a tube.
You cheated and it's clear to see why.
No, you were refuted, with solid evidence and you are now trying to cheat, and it is clear to see why.
The entire basis of your argument against the RE is that the RE couldn't possibly have a horizon and that you magically can't see below the level of a tube.
But both of those are defeated by simple logical arguments and questions you refuse to answer.
So it is clear why you are trying to cheat, because you don't want to admit you are wrong and admit you have no argument against the RE (or even admit that one of your arguments is pure nonsense).

Again:
You start looking straight down towards a round Earth and slowly lift your head up until you are looking straight up at the sky.
What do you see between the land/sea of Earth and the sky?
How does it visually transition?

And again, what magic stops the blue line from reaching the eye:


Those 2 questions are all that is needed to show you are spouting pure BS.
Your repeated avoidance of these simple questions (that even a child could likely answer) show that you have no case at all and are just spouting pure BS.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2786 on: January 07, 2021, 10:39:34 PM »

No, you were refuted, with solid evidence and you are now trying to cheat, and it is clear to see why.

You know better than that.

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JackBlack

  • 21558
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2787 on: January 07, 2021, 11:34:39 PM »
No, you were refuted, with solid evidence and you are now trying to cheat, and it is clear to see why.
You know better than that.
I know better than expect you to admit it.
Just like I know better than to expect you to actually address the multitude of issues with your nonsense, such as by answering the simple questions you refuse to because you know answering them will show you know your claims are BS.

Once more:
You start looking straight down towards a round Earth and slowly lift your head up until you are looking straight up at the sky.
What do you see between the land/sea of Earth and the sky?
How does it visually transition?

And again, what magic stops the blue line from reaching the eye:


Figured out how to lie your way out of them yet?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2788 on: January 07, 2021, 11:35:45 PM »


Figured out how to lie your way out of them yet?
Out of, what?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2789 on: January 07, 2021, 11:54:39 PM »
I've already told you, so either do it or don't.
'Honesty', I've got that much so far.  You posted two different diagrams, so I'll just pick a grade then.  Glad that's settled.
Now then, what do you want me to use to level the tubes?
A plumb bob with a hanging pencil or straight stick with an equal identical mass on each end that balances as a horizontal against the vertical under the, plumb bob.


Place this at the back of the first tube (nearest you), about 2 feet or so.
Take your picture via this set up and towards the crosshairs on both tubes, lining them all up.

This way you get to see the true crosshair to the true level of both tube crosshairs.
Here's the  diagram, for clarity.
The little man in the diagram is wearing a high viz vest, hard hat and boots. It makes him look a bit more professional but you are not under any obligation to follow suit, if you don't want to.
You can do this experiment in a G-string or anorak...etc, if you feel like it.  ;)



A coupla questions. Are we still dealing with toilet rolls here, or have we moved up to discarded Christmas wrapping rolls?  Why is the little man in the diagram dressed in a bright yellow chicken little costume instead of a fluoro yellow g-string? Will it help have a birdseye view of the tubes? Oh, and can I use hair from any part of my body to make the cross hairs?

I haven't seen a photo from who has done this yet, but I'm eagerly looking forward to it! I might even do it myself on the busiest hill in town, but would have to order my chicken costume first.