What would change your mind?

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2460 on: December 31, 2020, 03:14:24 PM »
I'm not sure why any of you expect scepti to respect you when there are pages and pages of insults aimed at him in this thread.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2461 on: December 31, 2020, 03:38:21 PM »
I'm not sure why any of you expect scepti to respect you when there are pages and pages of insults aimed at him in this thread.

Who was expecting respect? I never saw anyone ask for that from him, he brought it up.

Why wouldn't you expect a harsh tone in return for being constantly told you're deliberately faking photos, making up evidence and his own insults? If someone is going to accuse me of being a fake after bending over backwards to do what they asked, I'm not going to mince words.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2462 on: December 31, 2020, 04:19:30 PM »
You haven't bent over backwards, this is a forum not a gymnasium. If you really want to discuss moderation, you know where the thread needs to be posted, otherwise, you can mince your words or not. I will deal with it, if I have to.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2463 on: December 31, 2020, 05:26:23 PM »
Since when did pointing out, explaining why and showing where someone is wrong by what they claim or believe qualify as an insult towards them?

Scepti has claimed that the stars and planets are just 'lights in the sky' unless we can show him otherwise. So I have by posting my own photos. What are they if not evidence that he is wrong?

Oh yes and happy 2021 everyone!

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2464 on: December 31, 2020, 05:37:19 PM »
I want you to go back at least three pages, and then read the replies. Be sure to read the ones that are just talking shit about scepti and not contributing to the discussion at all. Don't read them as a defender of the RE, read them as if you are me, the mother of misfits.

Also, happy new year!
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2465 on: December 31, 2020, 06:12:53 PM »
Nooooo. You're just a person on the forum who thought he could pull the wool. You aren't the first and you certainly won't be the last.
I did respect your efforts, though.
  This "tube" experiment is tempting though.  I might try it if sceptimatic can provide the specifics for it.  Two tubes correct?

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Stash

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2466 on: December 31, 2020, 06:41:25 PM »


There is literally no reason why denpressure wouldn't work on a sphere. You didn't provide an explanation as to why it has to be flat, you simply stated how it is. A denser stacked/layered atmosphere towards a foundation contained by a membrane of sorts works equally well on a flat plane as it does surrounding a sphere.

No it does not. And also, how can you even say that when you struggle to understand my theory?

Quote from: Stash

You really have to differentiate why your denpressure world has to be flat. You have failed to do so.
I haven't failed to do so. You and your internet buddies have failed to grasp it, whether by inability to understand or inability to want to understand.

The reason being is that you have literally provided no reason why it wouldn't work on a sphere. There's no difference between a flat earth with a containment and a spherical earth with a containment. (I already tossed out the spinning bit) The same not knowing how "down" works in your theory has the same problems on a plane as it does around a sphere. So yeah, maybe the geocentrists would be interested in denpressure as it would work (even though it doesn't work no matter the shape of the earth) for them.

And oh yeah, we all grasp it. Just because we've shown where it fails doesn't mean it hasn't been "grasped".

The point being, what would change your mind about the shape of the earth would be that your theory doesn't need a flat one. Simple as that.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2467 on: December 31, 2020, 11:02:03 PM »
Since when did pointing out, explaining why and showing where someone is wrong by what they claim or believe qualify as an insult towards them?

Scepti has claimed that the stars and planets are just 'lights in the sky' unless we can show him otherwise. So I have by posting my own photos. What are they if not evidence that he is wrong?

Oh yes and happy 2021 everyone!

Come on now
Just as he smuggly talks down to us, we do the same to some degree at some point.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2468 on: January 01, 2021, 01:39:34 AM »
The difference being that we know that the balance of evidence is tipped very firmly in our favour. Conspiracy theorists are strange creatures.  They thrive on adversity and so the stronger the evidence is that shows they are wrong, the more they will 'rise to the challenge' of opposing that evidence and instead insist that they are right.

If you can't eliminate the enemy the best you can do is weaken it.  That is at the root of all the dismissive and disparaging comments we get from Scepti about 'your spinning globe'... etc etc.

 

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2469 on: January 01, 2021, 03:14:00 AM »
Nobody needs to post anything. It's me against you lot. Nobody else is backing me up.
This is all you lot backpatting each other. I wouldn't expect anything else.

You bottled it.

No, this is you making a wild claim, everyone else showing you that you're wrong, and you doing NOTHING to show any evidence at all.

The reason nobody is backing you up is because everyone can look through a tube and see it works just like my pictures.  What is there to back up, you haven't made a coherent argument.

You are amazingly lazy. You make wild claims, then expect everyone else to do your work for you and whine when they get tired of your endless childish demands.

You made the claim, it's your responsibility to provide evidence for it.
You were backed into a corner and you froze. Your words mean nothing from this point on....unless you prove what I'm arguing against..

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2470 on: January 01, 2021, 03:15:31 AM »
Ok well here is Saturn for starters.  Always a good one since the rings provide that enhanced sensation of depth and 3D.  Look carefully and you can even see part of the rings next to the disk hidden due to the shadow.


Can you prove this is in your space and not a reflective hologram?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2471 on: January 01, 2021, 03:17:47 AM »
Here's another taken with the other telescope which is a specialist solar telescope.  Here we are using purely the light of the H alpha line and so looking at the chromosphere of the Sun.  That is the normally invisible layer of the solar atmosphere directly above the photosphere.  Temperature increase here to about 20,000K which is why the chromosphere produces an emission spectrum rather than an absorption spectrum.  The telescope can take advantage of this and 'zoom in' to the H alpha line at 626.3nm.  It does this by employing a double interference filter which eliminates all the light apart from the specific wavelength I am after.


Is this your ball/sphere?
What proof do you have that this is not a reflective hologram?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2472 on: January 01, 2021, 03:20:24 AM »
To stay on topic: If you're a flat earther, would the picture above change your mind about the universe being small in FET? apparently m104 is about 50 million light years away.
Who measured it...and how?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2473 on: January 01, 2021, 03:22:11 AM »
I'm not backed into any corner and you have provided zero evidence of anything that proves you right and me wrong.
I skipped the evidence


And this is your problem.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2474 on: January 01, 2021, 03:24:23 AM »
But a body of water can be supposedly pulled towards the centre of Earth and not fall off the globe you believe we walk upon
"Fall off the globe" makes no sense.
Fall implies falling downwards, but that is towards the globe.


And this is why you have absolutely no interest in seeing through the silliness of the global nonsense. Your modus operandi (for whatever reasons) is to ensure people do not see past that utter global nonsense.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2475 on: January 01, 2021, 03:41:15 AM »
Can you prove that my images of the Sun and Saturn are reflective holograms then?  If that's what you want to believe then fine by me.  Just show me some evidence that proves that they are holograms.

If they are then they are extremely good ones and very realistic too.  Especially the solar hologram because it is constantly changing and is never the same twice.  Plus the appearance of the hologram seems to change dramatically when I switch from the Ha wavelength to the CaK one which is at the opposite end of the spectrum. 

Not quite sure how you would achieve that using holographic technology.  Any ideas?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2021, 03:47:17 AM by Solarwind »

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2476 on: January 01, 2021, 03:45:22 AM »
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They simply tell us that gravity does this and that.......not what it is as a force and why mass attracts mass only when the situation suits.

Why does anybody need to understand how gravity works to know what it does?
Do you understand gravity?
If so, tell me about it. What is it?



Quote from: Solarwind
  That is like saying you need to understand how a car works in order to drive one.
If you were told there were thousands of little mice in the engine, would you accept that?
If you wouldn't, then tell me why you wouldn't?


Quote from: Solarwind
  As everyday experience tells us, clearly you don't. Name me any piece of equipment that is commonly used in life which we need to know how it works in order to use it.

How about you tell me how you use gravity in your everyday life and explain how you know its a reality?

Quote from: Solarwind
Books tell us that any object with mass attracts any other object with mass and they tell us how to calculate the size of the force that exists between them.
Books?
Books can tell all kinds of stories and any story can be passed off as factual for the reader. How are you to know what the reality is?


Quote from: Solarwind
  If you then go on to measure that force (where practicable) you will find it is correct.  Is that what you mean by being 'indoctrinated'?  Being told what the force will be between two objects and then being able to confirm it by measurement?  That happens a lot in science, you should try it sometime.

Tell me how you measure this force to know what it is?


Quote from: Solarwind
What more do you need to know than that?
The proof and truth, that's what.



Quote from: Solarwind
Did you not like my photos?  You accepted my invitation to post a couple pretty quickly but you haven't made any comment about them since.

I did, Mr impatient.
 
Quote from: Solarwind
When scientists consider alternate theories or models, they do not eliminate any until sufficient evidence has been clearly presented that favours one over the others. Science is about process of elimination.
Science is reality and the issue for the seeker is in finding that reality. Only then can you really be called a factual scientist.
Until then it's all theoretical, which means, no real proof in terms of what we're arguing.


Quote from: Solarwind
Your version of 'alternate thinking' is to cast aside as irrelevant and wrong anything which doesn't conform with your beliefs straightaway.
No. It's to question and not simply accept as a truth, something which has no direct proof.


Quote from: Solarwind
So for you it's Sceptimatics model or no model.
Nobody is told to go with my model. They're your words, not mine.


Quote from: Solarwind
  Where is the science in that?
There is none. It's simply looking for the truth of science. We can all claim to be scientists. I'm more than happy to say, we're all scientists, looking for the scientific truth's.
The reality is, we're mostly theoretical.

Quote from: Solarwind
Quote
If your globe spins at the speeds that's said and the globe fattens out towards the equator because of this...as we're told, then don't you think the water in the seas would be compromised?

Compromised... how exactly?  What do you think it is going to do, fly off into space or something?   Ahh so that is why the media are always telling us there is a water shortage!



How about you explain this video.
You argue for one rotation of a ball as being so slow as to not spill anything....and yet here's your mate, Neil telling everyone how the rotation distorts the globe you believe you live on.

You people need to make your mind's up.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2477 on: January 01, 2021, 03:50:16 AM »
Can you prove that my images of the Sun and Saturn are reflective holograms then?  If that's what you want to believe then fine by me.  Just show me some evidence that proves that they are holograms.

If they are then they are extremely good ones and very realistic too.  Especially the solar hologram because it is constantly changing and is never the same twice.  Plus the appearance of the hologram seems to change dramatically when I switch from the Ha wavelength to the CaK one which is at the opposite end of the spectrum. 

Not quite sure how you would achieve that using holographic technology.  Any ideas?
I've told you what my stance is and how I believe Earth may, potentially, be.
Can you prove to me that your pictures are not just reflective holograms. If so, show me how you do it.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2478 on: January 01, 2021, 03:50:19 AM »
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Books can tell all kinds of stories and any story can be passed off as factual for the reader. How are you to know what the reality is?

How about the bit where I follow the instructions in a textbook which describe an experiment.  Then I do the experiment for myself (as many students do) using the equipment described provided by the staff and I get the exact results predicted.

Has lab gear that I have used been doctored or indoctrinated somehow to provide the results the book says it will?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2479 on: January 01, 2021, 03:54:17 AM »
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Can you prove to me that your pictures are not just reflective holograms. If so, show me how you do it.

Can you prove they are holograms? If so show me how you do it. 

I have provided some evidence in the form of my own images which is more than you have done up to now and you are the one insisting they are holograms. So the onus is currently on you to prove your position first.  In fact you the only one claiming they are holograms up to now.  SO prove your point.  Until you do that you won't get any more from me.  Take it or leave it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2480 on: January 01, 2021, 03:57:21 AM »
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Books can tell all kinds of stories and any story can be passed off as factual for the reader. How are you to know what the reality is?

How about the bit where I follow the instructions in a textbook which describe an experiment.  Then I do the experiment for myself (as many students do) using the equipment described provided by the staff and I get the exact results predicted.

Has lab gear that I have used been doctored or indoctrinated somehow to provide the results the book says it will?
What experiment?
I  assume you mean  undeniable physical proof....right?
If so...show me...or tell me about it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2481 on: January 01, 2021, 04:04:03 AM »
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Can you prove to me that your pictures are not just reflective holograms. If so, show me how you do it.

Can you prove they are holograms? If so show me how you do it. 

I have provided some evidence in the form of my own images which is more than you have done up to now and you are the one insisting they are holograms. So the onus is currently on you to prove your position first.  In fact you the only one claiming they are holograms up to now.  SO prove your point.  Until you do that you won't get any more from me.  Take it or leave it.
I've repeatedly told you I have no physical proof. My model is theoretical or hypothetical...or whatever you want to decide for yourself.

How about you nail it down with proof that your vision is not based on seeing holographic images coming from the very place you are part of.

You see, all it takes is to start thinking on the most simple and basic terms and also look at what we, as humans, invent for ourselves.
What are we inventing?
Is inventing the right term....or is it realising we are part of everything that is already set out for our survival?

Basically we are just copying on a small scale, what is happening on a large scale.

You may never get the chance to even think on those lines, such is your steadfast stance on a belief of the books you read and fail to question in any critical way. In my honest opinion.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2482 on: January 01, 2021, 04:08:15 AM »
Nobody needs to post anything. It's me against you lot. Nobody else is backing me up.
This is all you lot backpatting each other. I wouldn't expect anything else.

You bottled it.

No, this is you making a wild claim, everyone else showing you that you're wrong, and you doing NOTHING to show any evidence at all.

The reason nobody is backing you up is because everyone can look through a tube and see it works just like my pictures.  What is there to back up, you haven't made a coherent argument.

You are amazingly lazy. You make wild claims, then expect everyone else to do your work for you and whine when they get tired of your endless childish demands.

You made the claim, it's your responsibility to provide evidence for it.
You were backed into a corner and you froze. Your words mean nothing from this point on....unless you prove what I'm arguing against..

I already proved you were wrong several times. If you think my photos are not enough then you do it right and show your evidence.

It's not my job to cure you of your paranoia that everyone is out to trick you.

If literally everyone that looks through a tube sees something you claim is impossible, maybe, just maybe you are wrong?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2483 on: January 01, 2021, 04:09:25 AM »
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How about you nail it down with proof that your vision is not based on seeing holographic images coming from the very place you are part of.

No one will ever 'prove' anything to you that you don't want to believe.  That much has been proved purely on the length of time that has been wasted going on about this tube experiment of yours.  No one will ever perform an experiment or make an observation that proves to you anything other than what you want to believe.

So go ahead and carry on believing your theortical or hypothetical model or whatever you want to call it if it makes you happy.  It's pointless discussing anything with you.  Period.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2484 on: January 01, 2021, 04:27:16 AM »
Nobody needs to post anything. It's me against you lot. Nobody else is backing me up.
This is all you lot backpatting each other. I wouldn't expect anything else.

You bottled it.

No, this is you making a wild claim, everyone else showing you that you're wrong, and you doing NOTHING to show any evidence at all.

The reason nobody is backing you up is because everyone can look through a tube and see it works just like my pictures.  What is there to back up, you haven't made a coherent argument.

You are amazingly lazy. You make wild claims, then expect everyone else to do your work for you and whine when they get tired of your endless childish demands.

You made the claim, it's your responsibility to provide evidence for it.
You were backed into a corner and you froze. Your words mean nothing from this point on....unless you prove what I'm arguing against..

I already proved you were wrong several times. If you think my photos are not enough then you do it right and show your evidence.

It's not my job to cure you of your paranoia that everyone is out to trick you.

If literally everyone that looks through a tube sees something you claim is impossible, maybe, just maybe you are wrong?
You are under no obligation to show me anything or prove anything, to me.
You are here on a flat Earth forum for whatever reasons.
You've come up against someone ( me, among others) who does not believe the indoctrinated global model. You, for some reason, have decided to .......what? Why are you here?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2485 on: January 01, 2021, 04:29:43 AM »
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How about you nail it down with proof that your vision is not based on seeing holographic images coming from the very place you are part of.

No one will ever 'prove' anything to you that you don't want to believe.  That much has been proved purely on the length of time that has been wasted going on about this tube experiment of yours.  No one will ever perform an experiment or make an observation that proves to you anything other than what you want to believe.

So go ahead and carry on believing your theortical or hypothetical model or whatever you want to call it if it makes you happy. It's pointless discussing anything with you.  Period.
So why do you continually discuss stuff with me?
You're also here for a reason. What is that reason?


Surely you can't be here just to say your Earth is a globe, so nah nah na nah nah?
Enlighten me.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2486 on: January 01, 2021, 04:40:26 AM »
Quote
I've repeatedly told you I have no physical proof. My model is theoretical or hypothetical...or whatever you want to decide for yourself.

All those words you use like theoretical or hypothetical mean pretty much the same thing.  But there's nothing theoretical or hypothetical about your model in your mind is there.  For you it is 100% real and true because you have already decided it is.  Your model is the only model you will accept.  You have proved to yourself it is the right one.

There is nothing that I, JJA, JB or anyone else can do or say that will convince you any other way.  You have set your model in your mind so no one can prove to you (to your satisfaction) that you are wrong. That means to you that you must therefore be right.  That is how your mind works. You don't need to prove your model to anyone else because you have already proved it to yourself.  Therefore there is nothing hypothetical or theoretical about it in your mind.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2487 on: January 01, 2021, 04:50:23 AM »
You are under no obligation to show me anything or prove anything, to me.
You are here on a flat Earth forum for whatever reasons.
You've come up against someone ( me, among others) who does not believe the indoctrinated global model. You, for some reason, have decided to .......what? Why are you here?

I'm here because I want to be.

I'm here because I enjoy performing experiments and taking pictures and it's a good excuse to try things I wouldn't otherwise bother with, which is why I went along with the tube experiment for so long. I stop when it's no longer fun, or the demands get too silly. And also, because it's too damn cold to spend hours setting up tubes when I already went above and beyond the initial requirements.

I will repeat and improve them when flaws are pointed out, but not when the only complaint is baseless claims that I'm dishonest and cheating.

I'm here because it's interesting to challenge my assumptions and put what I believe to the test. Why are YOU here?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2488 on: January 01, 2021, 07:42:40 AM »
I still don't quote understand what aspect of RE is 'indoctrinated'. The precise shape and size of the Earth is something which is being constantly measured, re-measured, assessed and re-assessed by scientists, engineers, geologists and other specialists.

No single person could ever do all these measurements for themselves for reasons of logistics, equipment and budget to name but three.  The results of geographical, geological and geodesic surveys are freely available. So where is the 'indoctrination' in all that?  We have our own GPS receivers from which we can take our own measurements and then compare that to published data.  Where is the indoctrination there?

So in Sceptis case he is obviously not using the term in its correct context.  On the other hand indoctrination would be appropriate for the Scepti model because he is asking us to accept his model purely based on what we are told about it.  That IS indoctrination.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2489 on: January 01, 2021, 07:57:07 AM »
Quote
I've repeatedly told you I have no physical proof. My model is theoretical or hypothetical...or whatever you want to decide for yourself.

All those words you use like theoretical or hypothetical mean pretty much the same thing.
Yep, they do.....but, in your indoctrinated so called scientific world they mean different, as and when the situation suits.
This is why I simply use them. It's to save you the time and effort in explaining the differences......when it suits.

Quote from: Solarwind

  But there's nothing theoretical or hypothetical about your model in your mind is there.
The clue is in me not passing it off as factual. So what can you deduce from that?


Quote from: Solarwind

 For you it is 100% real and true because you have already decided it is.
As above.

Quote from: Solarwind

  Your model is the only model you will accept.
Absolutely not.
If I see a better fit or a potential then I'll take note.
I see bits of potential in lots of theories but I do like my own one hell of a lot......yet it does not make it factual.


Quote from: Solarwind

  You have proved to yourself it is the right one.
As above.

Quote from: Solarwind

There is nothing that I, JJA, JB or anyone else can do or say that will convince you any other way.
You have zero chance of ever turning me back to the indoctrinated globe model I was bullied into, as a child........unless one of you has some definitive proof...but all you seem to have is massive appeals to what you believe is, authority, which counts as zero in my mind.

Quote from: Solarwind

  You have set your model in your mind so no one can prove to you (to your satisfaction) that you are wrong.
So therefore, you are struggling.


Quote from: Solarwind

That means to you that you must therefore be right.
I'd love to be right but I can't claim that with my model.

Quote from: Solarwind

  That is how your mind works. You don't need to prove your model to anyone else because you have already proved it to yourself.
It depends what you mean by, prove.
Judging by what I'm saying, how can I possibly, physically prove anything I say, other than to give you food for thought on why I came to my conclusions, which I try to do, which are not accepted.
That's your issue, not mine.


Quote from: Solarwind

  Therefore there is nothing hypothetical or theoretical about it in your mind.
As above.