What would change your mind?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #360 on: September 25, 2020, 07:30:23 AM »
So you believe you can bounce a laser off  one of your stars and back to you?
Or is it your moon or sun or one of your planet things?

You see, I know we can use a laser to get a distance. Which is fine if it comes back. But that's a short distance and it does not measure something you do not know the size of and nor would trigonometry.
That is for the Moon, for other astronomical objects it is my understanding they use different methods.
And those different methods are?

I'm waiting for some feedback on the 240 BC greek who managed to gauge distance and size of the moon. Any ideas yourself?

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #361 on: September 25, 2020, 07:32:42 AM »
This is why nobody wants to put time into debating you.

You demand to be told things, then when you are given the information you just ignore it, and demand something else.

Why should anyone bother when you have just shown that you don't care?

It's not anyone elses fault you can't understand basic trigonometry. It's all nonsense to you, and that's completely due to your ignorance on the subject.  Take some basic online classes and come back and try again.
There's plenty of copy and paste explanations made. There's plenty of wiki stuff offered.
I'm asking for one of you to answer teh question I posed, from your own mind and using whatever tools you require to show me  how you would calculate what I mentioned....which is, this:
Let's make this a bit simpler because what you're saying is massive guesswork based on made up nonsense by whoever started this garbage.

So let's make this distance stuff a bit easier.

I have a ball the size of which only I know.
I place the ball at a set distance.

I offer you all the tools you require to tell me the diameter of that ball and the distance it is at.
What tools do you use and how do you get it correct....or close to being correct?


You asked how it was done, I gave you several examples. You just ignored all of them and came up with a new challenge.

Fine, lets play your game.

To tell the distance to your ball, I'll bounce a radar pulse off of it. The time of flight gives me distance.

Now that I know the distance, I can take a picture of it with a camera, and knowing the focal length and image sensor size I can solve for it's diameter with trigonometry since I have one side and two angles to work with.

Simple.
Tell me how you bounce a laser off a ball and back to you?
Also tell me how this trigonometry works with your angles to get your distance and ball size.

I said radar, not laser.  Try again.

This is how trigonometry works.  If you don't understand, I'm not going to teach you basic math.  Study on your own time.


I know how trigonometry works. I'm telling you it doesn't work for your fictional stars .
It's great for building walls and such.
It's no good for finding distance to fictional things and equally no good to find sizes of fictional things.

I seriously doubt you understand trig if you think it only works in some cases but not others. That's not how math works.  ::)

Another instance of you just rejecting things because it conflicts with your beliefs.

What exactly stops math from working when we use it for things in space?  Your denial can't make math stop working.  Here's a picture.  Can you explain why math won't work on that particular triangle?




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rvlvr

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #362 on: September 25, 2020, 07:34:51 AM »
So you believe you can bounce a laser off  one of your stars and back to you?
Or is it your moon or sun or one of your planet things?

You see, I know we can use a laser to get a distance. Which is fine if it comes back. But that's a short distance and it does not measure something you do not know the size of and nor would trigonometry.
That is for the Moon, for other astronomical objects it is my understanding they use different methods.
And those different methods are?

I'm waiting for some feedback on the 240 BC greek who managed to gauge distance and size of the moon. Any ideas yourself?
He used parallax, as was stated.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #363 on: September 25, 2020, 07:37:15 AM »
You accept laser rangefinding works.

What is your issue with the other listed methods?
I accept a lot of things for reality.
I accept a bounce back laser and radar and such.

I'm just waiting to get answers to my ball and its distance. I've been told a mountain is required and walking to different points to get the diameter and distance.

I still don't get why.

I mean, I get told, right angles. I understand stuff like the 3/4/5 method for a right angle and such.
I'm tying to figure out how it works for stars and moons and what not.

Is it an imaginary line to the edge of a star and another to the other edge by walking a short distance and the two points should add up to something?

Someone can explain it in a simple way so to be clear.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #364 on: September 25, 2020, 07:38:49 AM »

A ball of unknown size in the distance.
How do you find the ball size and distance?

Pretty much every discovery is built on some other discovery which came before it. If the foundations are sound and every brick on top is sound then you start from that point and move onwards and upwards. If you absolutely insist that we personally verify everything from the ground up before doing anything, then no progress will ever be made because it would take years to start from first principles, learn the required mathematics to be able to verify every equation, repeat every experiment ever made etc. etc.

We don't do that, as Isaac Newton said, we stand on the shoulders of giants. This is how progress is made.



Quote from: robinofloxley
OK, so your ball of an unknown size and distance. Let's suppose the distance is modest, half a mile at most. Let's suppose there is a very distinctive mountain peak in the very far distance, 100 miles away or more. Line up the ball with the mountain peak. Walk a few hundred metres or so sideways. The ball will no longer line up with the mountain peak. Use a sextant or some other device to measure the angle between the ball and the mountain peak. Refer to the Wikipedia article on stellar parallax and use trigonometry to determine the approximate distance to the ball (assume the mountain is far enough away that it's effectively an infinite distance away compared to the ball).

Measure the angular diameter of the ball. Since you know the distance to the ball, use trigonometry to calculate its diameter. Happy now?
Tell me about this angular diameter and how it traingulates to give you distance and size.

Not sure why I'm bothering, but here's how you would calculate the distance. Not going to bother with the size.

Your ball is at position A, the observer is at B. Observer sees the ball lined up with the distant mountain peak at A'. Observer moves distance d to position C. The ball is no longer lined up with the distant mountain, it appears at position A'' in relation to the mountain.

Using a sextant or similar instrument, observer measures the angle between the edge of the ball at A'' and the top of the mountain, that's angle A'-A-A'' as θ. The angle BAC is therefore also θ. So now you have a right angled triangle ABC and an angle θ.

The unknown side (marked with a ?) is therefore d/Tan(θ).

So if you were to move sideways 100 metres and measure the angle at 45°, your ball is 100 metres distant. If the angle is 5°, it's 1143 metres away.

Edit: Just want to correct myself here. The observer measures the angle A'-C-A'', not A'-A'-A'', however since the mountain is very much further away than the ball, this angle is as near as makes no difference equal to θ.


And how big is the ball?

Use a sextant to measure the angular width of the ball φ - that's angle BAC.
Angle DAC is φ/2.
Triangle ADC is a right angled triangle.
Distance to ball is AC or "?" from earlier diagram.
Side DC is the radius of the ball.
DC = AC x Tan(φ/2).


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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #365 on: September 25, 2020, 07:40:25 AM »


I seriously doubt you understand trig if you think it only works in some cases but not others. That's not how math works.  ::)

Another instance of you just rejecting things because it conflicts with your beliefs.

What exactly stops math from working when we use it for things in space?  Your denial can't make math stop working.  Here's a picture.  Can you explain why math won't work on that particular triangle?


Explain the reality of that diagram and how it works to gauge distance and size.

No having a pop, unless you can't explain it....then you may have as many digs as you like because I'll know you have no clue.


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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #366 on: September 25, 2020, 07:41:12 AM »

He used parallax, as was stated.
Explain it and how it works for stars/suns...etc.
Explain the reality.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #367 on: September 25, 2020, 07:42:47 AM »


Use a sextant to measure the angular width of the ball φ - that's angle BAC.
Angle DAC is φ/2.
Triangle ADC is a right angled triangle.
Distance to ball is AC or "?" from earlier diagram.
Side DC is the radius of the ball.
DC = AC x Tan(φ/2).


I get that but I want you to explain how you come to get the distance and actual size of what you are observing by using that.
Explain it to this dummy as simple as you can.

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rvlvr

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #368 on: September 25, 2020, 07:52:44 AM »

He used parallax, as was stated.
Explain it and how it works for stars/suns...etc.
Explain the reality.
I, myself, cannot explain it, I admit, but the link should. There is a lot of the history there as well.

https://www.space.com/30417-parallax.html

Parallax is “the best way to get distance in astronomy,” said Mark Reid, an astronomer at the Harvard Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. He described parallax as the “gold standard” for measuring stellar distances because it does not involve physics; rather, it relies solely on geometry.

EDIT: The Greek:
Hipparchus noted that on March 14 of that year there was a total solar eclipse in Hellespont, Turkey, while at the same time farther south in Alexandria, Egypt, the moon covered only four-fifths of the sun. Knowing the baseline distance between Hellespont and Alexandria — 9 degrees of latitude or about 600 miles (965 km), along with the angular displacement of the edge of the moon against the sun (about one-tenth of a degree), he calculated the distance to the moon to be about 350,000 miles (563,300 km), which was nearly 50 percent too far. His mistake was in assuming that the moon was directly overhead, thus miscalculating the angle difference between Hellespont and Alexandria.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 07:55:47 AM by rvlvr »

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #369 on: September 25, 2020, 07:55:20 AM »

He used parallax, as was stated.
Explain it and how it works for stars/suns...etc.
Explain the reality.
I, myself, cannot explain it, I admit, but the link should. There is a lot of the history there as well.

https://www.space.com/30417-parallax.html

Parallax is “the best way to get distance in astronomy,” said Mark Reid, an astronomer at the Harvard Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. He described parallax as the “gold standard” for measuring stellar distances because it does not involve physics; rather, it relies solely on geometry.
Thanks for being honest.

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rvlvr

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #370 on: September 25, 2020, 07:58:52 AM »
Thanks for being honest.
I try to. Still, appreciated.

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rvlvr

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #371 on: September 25, 2020, 08:10:47 AM »
Somewhat related, and interesting:
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1757-899X/177/1/012028/pdf

The aim of this study is to create a simple algorithm for distance estimation to unknown size objects, using some properties of a bee eye.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #372 on: September 25, 2020, 08:18:19 AM »


I seriously doubt you understand trig if you think it only works in some cases but not others. That's not how math works.  ::)

Another instance of you just rejecting things because it conflicts with your beliefs.

What exactly stops math from working when we use it for things in space?  Your denial can't make math stop working.  Here's a picture.  Can you explain why math won't work on that particular triangle?


Explain the reality of that diagram and how it works to gauge distance and size.

No having a pop, unless you can't explain it....then you may have as many digs as you like because I'll know you have no clue.

Dude, it's been explained to you over and over.  Denying things and being ignorant of math is your problem.

There isn't any way to make things more simple, you just have to sit down and learn how basic trig works.

I'll try and explain.  Here is a chart of trig functions.



Earth is at B, Venus is at A, the Sun is at C.

We measure the distance from the Earth to Venus with a radar pulse and get the adjacent length.

We measure the angle between the Sun and Venus as the angle B.

Now we want to find the hypotenuse, which is the distance to the Sun from the Earth.

cos(B) = adjacent / hypotenuse

We solve for the hypotenuse:

hypotenuse = cos(B) / adjacent

This gives us the distance to the Sun from the Earth.

This is basic trig.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #373 on: September 25, 2020, 08:24:04 AM »


Use a sextant to measure the angular width of the ball φ - that's angle BAC.
Angle DAC is φ/2.
Triangle ADC is a right angled triangle.
Distance to ball is AC or "?" from earlier diagram.
Side DC is the radius of the ball.
DC = AC x Tan(φ/2).


I get that but I want you to explain how you come to get the distance and actual size of what you are observing by using that.
Explain it to this dummy as simple as you can.

OK well let's try an example. So first step is for the observer to move sideways to line the ball up with the distant mountaintop or other convenient distant object (see first diagram from earlier). The key is the distant object has to be a long way away compared to the distance of the ball.

Move sideways far enough that the ball no longer lines up with the mountain, let's say 5 metres. Now get out your trusty sextant and measure the angle between the ball and the mountain. Let's say this is 7°. Plug these figures into the first equation, and the distance to the ball is 5/Tan(7) = 41 metres.

Now use the sextant to measure the angular diameter of the ball, let's say 1/2 of a degree (see second diagram). Plug the distance and this new angle into the second equation to get the ball radius: 41 x Tan(0.5) = 0.36 metres. Diameter of ball is therefore 0.72 metres, i.e. 72 cm.

Edit: Oops, just spotted that I should have halved the angle for the second equation, so that's 41 x Tan(0.5/2) = 0.18, so diameter of ball is 36 cm, not 72. My bad.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 08:53:59 AM by robinofloxley »

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rvlvr

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #374 on: September 25, 2020, 08:45:54 AM »
Cool!

I thank you for that, too.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #375 on: September 25, 2020, 08:48:27 AM »
Quote
Feel free but you've never answered the question.

Sorry, remind me what question was that?  I will answer any question put to me but whether you choose to accept/believe my answer is something I have no control over.

JJAs explanation for finding a value for the distance of Venus and hence the Sun is perfectly valid and perfectly correct.  The maximum elongation of Venus comes to 46 degrees give or take a tiny bit and we can use radar or indeed laser pulses to work out the distance to Venus. Both use electromagnetic waves (i.e. light or radio waves) so the result will be the same.  If we plot the position of Venus relative to the stars over the course of either a morning (western) or evening (eastern) elongation we can the join the points to form a nice arc.  That arc takes the form of part of an ellipse which is actually the orbit of Venus.  The Sun can be seen to mark one of the focii of the ellipse as described by Keplers 1st law.  This is an interesting project which has been done successfully by many amateur astronomers across the world. So yes we can verify it for ourselves.

That is perfectly valid science because we are confirming theory by observation. If you look at Venus through a telescope at various times during a western and eastern elongation you will see a phase sequence which exactly matches what we would expect to see according to the heliocentric model which puts Venus as the second planet of the solar system.

All this will be lost on Scepti because he won't accept any of it.  No problem - just describe to us a better explanation and be sure to back it up with how you verified it yourself.  Then I will give you the email address of the editor of Nature magazine so you can write a paper on it explaining how science has got it all wrong but you have got it right and have it published. I'm sure they would be very keen to read your alternative views. 
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 09:09:55 AM by Solarwind »

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rvlvr

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #376 on: September 25, 2020, 09:19:37 AM »
All this will be lost on Scepti because he won't accept any of it.  No problem - just describe to us a better explanation and be sure to back it up with how you verified it yourself.  Then I will give you the email address of the editor of Nature magazine so you can write a paper on it explaining how science has got it all wrong but you have got it right and have it published.
I've tried the same, but FE rarely bites.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #377 on: September 25, 2020, 12:16:30 PM »
That's because FE haven't got any better explanations. They will claim they have and they are very good at their put downs of traditional science. They demand explanations from us and then ignore them without producing any of their own.

If they seriously think the crazy stuff that the FE Wiki is full of offers a better explanation for how the world and the Universe work compared to mainstream science then this whole flat Earth business is even more far fetched than I used to think it was.

Anyone can make meaningless comments like 'globalist nonsense' or 'angry globalists' but until they can come up with anything more convincing than what we already have, the globalists have it in my view. 



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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #378 on: September 25, 2020, 12:20:41 PM »
I found this:
The most common is to measure the apparent angular diameter of the planet – how big it looks against the sky – very precisely using a telescope. Combining this with a measure of its distance (deduced from its orbit around the Sun) reveals the planet's actual size.

I am sure you will now ask how do we know how far the Sun is, or something similar.

EDIT: And as the answer above was provided by someone working for Sony Depthsensing Solutions, I'd imagine there will be some noise related to multinationals and their reptilian backers.
A ball of unknown size in the distance.
How do you find the ball size and distance?
Doe some wavelenght stuff, use a radar, take pics with lenses spaced appart etc. Many options tbh.
This means nothing and you know it.
They are valid options that someone with the requiered knowledge could use to perform the task in question, and you know it.
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

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Sign up here.

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JackBlack

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #379 on: September 25, 2020, 03:34:25 PM »
Rather than accept you cannot do my experiment and get any accurate reading,you go into a frenzy.
Just admit that you cannot do it.
Rather than accept your argument is pure nonsense and you cannot answer my simple questions without refuting yourself, you go into a frenzy.
Just admit that you cannot do it.

Can you answer my question?
Can you answer mine?
You know, the one directly relating to the topic which shows your argument for why you think Earth is flat is pure nonsense?

Once more, you have admitted that (on a round Earth) looking straight down, you see ground. You claim that looking straight out level you see sky, which is true if your FOV is small enough.
The logical consequence of this is that if you start looking straight down and raise your head up, you will reach a line/division below which there is land/sea and above which there is sky.

If you don't agree, tell us how this transition occurs.
As you continually ignore the question, I will just continue with the rest of the logic (something you seem to hate and never want to use as it never supports you).

This division between land/sea and sky is the horizon for a round Earth.
This means the RE does have a horizon, and the only question is where this horizon is.
First we note that the horizon will be at the maximum distance from straight down as possible.
This means your line of site to the horizon would be tangent to Earth at this horizon.
This allows us to construct a right angle triangle (Yes, now we are going into math, something else you seem to despise).
This triangle has a right angle at the horizon.
It then has a line connecting straight down to the centre of Earth (of distance r), and a line connecting the horizon to your eyes.
The final line is the hypotenuse connecting your eyes to the centre of Earth (of distance r+h).
Now we can finally find out where the horizon is.
We can measure it from straight down, using sin(x)=r/(r+h). Or we can measure it from straight out level, noting that straight out level is at 90 degrees to straight down, and thus the angle we are looking for is 90 degrees - x, and that cos(90 degrees - x) = sin(x).
So the angle from straight out level is given by acos(r/(r+h)).

When we plug in 6371 km for r, and 2 m for h we end up with acos(6371/6371.002)=2.72395557 arc minutes, or ~2.7 arc minutes to 2 sig figs.

This shows that when you are looking out level, unless your FOV is tiny (less tan 5.45 arc minutes) YOU WILL SEE THE HORIZON ON A ROUND EARTH!
Your claim that you would see nothing but sky is pure nonsense.
Thus your justification for why you think Earth is flat is nonsense.
Thus the thing you claim would cause you to change your mind is not something you would expect for a RE of this size.


So going to address it?
Or will you continue to dishonestly ignore it so you can dishonestly pretend that your false claim that Earth is flat is justified?

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rvlvr

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #380 on: September 26, 2020, 12:17:02 AM »
Sceptimatic is planning his next attack.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #381 on: September 26, 2020, 12:28:48 AM »


I seriously doubt you understand trig if you think it only works in some cases but not others. That's not how math works.  ::)

Another instance of you just rejecting things because it conflicts with your beliefs.

What exactly stops math from working when we use it for things in space?  Your denial can't make math stop working.  Here's a picture.  Can you explain why math won't work on that particular triangle?


Explain the reality of that diagram and how it works to gauge distance and size.

No having a pop, unless you can't explain it....then you may have as many digs as you like because I'll know you have no clue.

Dude, it's been explained to you over and over.  Denying things and being ignorant of math is your problem.

There isn't any way to make things more simple, you just have to sit down and learn how basic trig works.

I'll try and explain.  Here is a chart of trig functions.



Earth is at B, Venus is at A, the Sun is at C.

We measure the distance from the Earth to Venus with a radar pulse and get the adjacent length.

We measure the angle between the Sun and Venus as the angle B.

Now we want to find the hypotenuse, which is the distance to the Sun from the Earth.

cos(B) = adjacent / hypotenuse

We solve for the hypotenuse:

hypotenuse = cos(B) / adjacent

This gives us the distance to the Sun from the Earth.

This is basic trig.
I'm fine with basic trig.
I'm simply asking for a reality of the ball of unknown size and unknown distance to be calculated.

Trig does not cater for any accuracy of this.
Admit it.

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rvlvr

  • 2148
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #382 on: September 26, 2020, 12:36:00 AM »
They really give the title of scientist to anyone?

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rvlvr

  • 2148
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #383 on: September 26, 2020, 12:38:12 AM »
Trig does not cater for any accuracy of this.
Admit it.
How is trigonometry wrong? Can you explain it?

EDIT: It is super easy to spout ”it’s wrong”, and that is why you do it. It quite a lot more difficult to explain why it would be wrong. And that is why you choose not to.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2020, 01:03:14 AM by rvlvr »

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JackBlack

  • 21709
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #384 on: September 26, 2020, 01:00:16 AM »
I'm fine with basic trig.
Really?
So what is your objection to the basic trig that shows where the horizon would be on a round Earth, that shows that unless your FOV is extremely tiny or you are quite far from Earth, you would see the horizon when looking out level?

Then again, why are you rejecting the idea that by measuring the angle to an object at 2 locations and measuring the distance between those 2 locations gives you the distance to that object?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #385 on: September 26, 2020, 01:06:35 AM »
Quote
Then again, why are you rejecting the idea that by measuring the angle to an object at 2 locations and measuring the distance between those 2 locations gives you the distance to that object?

Yep... the basic principle of parallax which has proved to be a very useful and very accurate tool in astronomy. GAIA has used it to determine the distances of stars across most of the Milky Way Galaxy.

Another way of measuring the distance to Venus is via the observation of transits.  As Venus moves across the disk of the Sun its observed position on the disk at a given moment will be slightly different for observers at different geographic locations. So by measuring these differences in position and by knowing the distance separating each observer we can again use some basic trig to work out how far away Venus is.  We can then cross check these figures with those obtained by using laser or radar ranging.

We might as well try and reason with a brick wall as reason with Scepti.  He is simply completely ignoring everything presented to him which shows his beliefs are wrong.

So be it. That is the typical MO of conspiracy theorists. They shut their eyes and ears and slam the door shut to anything which shows how their beliefs are wrong. By flatly (punn incidental) denying that all the evidence that RE put before them is in anyway a valid argument against what they believe they know that eventually the 'non-believers' will simply give up and move on to prevent them from being driven insane.  That way they will seem to have won their argument without actually producing any evidence of their own.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2020, 02:58:23 AM by Solarwind »

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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #386 on: September 26, 2020, 01:24:24 AM »
I found this:
The most common is to measure the apparent angular diameter of the planet – how big it looks against the sky – very precisely using a telescope. Combining this with a measure of its distance (deduced from its orbit around the Sun) reveals the planet's actual size.

I am sure you will now ask how do we know how far the Sun is, or something similar.

EDIT: And as the answer above was provided by someone working for Sony Depthsensing Solutions, I'd imagine there will be some noise related to multinationals and their reptilian backers.
A ball of unknown size in the distance.
How do you find the ball size and distance?
Doe some wavelenght stuff, use a radar, take pics with lenses spaced appart etc. Many options tbh.
This means nothing and you know it.
They are valid options that someone with the requiered knowledge could use to perform the task in question, and you know it.
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

Member of the BOTD
Sign up here.

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rvlvr

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #387 on: September 26, 2020, 04:45:47 AM »
Sceptimatic, robinofloxley did provide you an example with numbers. And as you know trigonometry, it should be easy for you to verify it.

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JJA

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  • Math is math!
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #388 on: September 26, 2020, 05:38:49 AM »


I seriously doubt you understand trig if you think it only works in some cases but not others. That's not how math works.  ::)

Another instance of you just rejecting things because it conflicts with your beliefs.

What exactly stops math from working when we use it for things in space?  Your denial can't make math stop working.  Here's a picture.  Can you explain why math won't work on that particular triangle?


Explain the reality of that diagram and how it works to gauge distance and size.

No having a pop, unless you can't explain it....then you may have as many digs as you like because I'll know you have no clue.

Dude, it's been explained to you over and over.  Denying things and being ignorant of math is your problem.

There isn't any way to make things more simple, you just have to sit down and learn how basic trig works.

I'll try and explain.  Here is a chart of trig functions.



Earth is at B, Venus is at A, the Sun is at C.

We measure the distance from the Earth to Venus with a radar pulse and get the adjacent length.

We measure the angle between the Sun and Venus as the angle B.

Now we want to find the hypotenuse, which is the distance to the Sun from the Earth.

cos(B) = adjacent / hypotenuse

We solve for the hypotenuse:

hypotenuse = cos(B) / adjacent

This gives us the distance to the Sun from the Earth.

This is basic trig.
I'm fine with basic trig.
I'm simply asking for a reality of the ball of unknown size and unknown distance to be calculated.

Trig does not cater for any accuracy of this.
Admit it.

So you totally understood all of that, and claim it's all wrong somehow, but can't tell me how it's wrong?

That actually sounds like someone who doesn't understand any of it and is just in denial about it.

Show me where the math is wrong.  I even gave you all the steps to make it easy to follow.

*

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #389 on: September 26, 2020, 06:06:29 AM »


I seriously doubt you understand trig if you think it only works in some cases but not others. That's not how math works.  ::)

Another instance of you just rejecting things because it conflicts with your beliefs.

What exactly stops math from working when we use it for things in space?  Your denial can't make math stop working.  Here's a picture.  Can you explain why math won't work on that particular triangle?


Explain the reality of that diagram and how it works to gauge distance and size.

No having a pop, unless you can't explain it....then you may have as many digs as you like because I'll know you have no clue.

Dude, it's been explained to you over and over.  Denying things and being ignorant of math is your problem.

There isn't any way to make things more simple, you just have to sit down and learn how basic trig works.

I'll try and explain.  Here is a chart of trig functions.



Earth is at B, Venus is at A, the Sun is at C.

We measure the distance from the Earth to Venus with a radar pulse and get the adjacent length.

We measure the angle between the Sun and Venus as the angle B.

Now we want to find the hypotenuse, which is the distance to the Sun from the Earth.

cos(B) = adjacent / hypotenuse

We solve for the hypotenuse:

hypotenuse = cos(B) / adjacent

This gives us the distance to the Sun from the Earth.

This is basic trig.
I'm fine with basic trig.
I'm simply asking for a reality of the ball of unknown size and unknown distance to be calculated.

Trig does not cater for any accuracy of this.
Admit it.

So you totally understood all of that, and claim it's all wrong somehow, but can't tell me how it's wrong?

That actually sounds like someone who doesn't understand any of it and is just in denial about it.

Show me where the math is wrong.  I even gave you all the steps to make it easy to follow.
He agrees with it, but his issue is that there are two balls (sun, venus) instead of one.
But he's too stupid to realize you could use the exactely same method with a single ball by using the angular size of the single ball-shaped object instead of the angle between sun and venus. Then you could solve for the size of said ball (you get the distance with e.g. radar).

But as we all know, scepti is nothing but a troll. He already knows all of this, he just pretends to be stupid for fun and entertainment.
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

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