What would change your mind?

  • 5620 Replies
  • 532697 Views
*

JJA

  • 6869
  • Math is math!
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #300 on: September 24, 2020, 04:41:27 AM »

I'd change if I saw any good evidence, like taking a plane flight into another of these worlds you imagine to exist.

Did you visit one, is that why you believe?
Come back to me when you want to engage.

I would, but your entire argument is based on some random book you read.  And you continue to ignore most of what I say, so I'm not the one refusing to engage here. 

If you are so sure all this land exists, why not fly out there and discover it yourself? Be famous.

There are infinite worlds out there.. why are you so afraid to go look for one?

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #301 on: September 24, 2020, 06:17:22 AM »
Firstly it was a very long time ago, so I'm not likely to remember all the details.

My recollection is that other students at the observatory took photographs (actual film in those days) over a period of time. By comparing photos you spot the stars which vary in brightness. Determine the period (variation of brightness over time) and that allows you to pick out the cepheids, because they follow a very distinctive pattern. Cepheids of a given period should have a certain magnitude (brightness) at a standard distance, so the further away they are the dimmer they appear to be and there is a relationship between apparent brightness and distance. Estimating the apparent brightness is then just a case of comparing the appearance of a candidate cepheid with another star of an agreed magnitude. For example, Polaris has an apparent magnitude of 1.98 (to be fair, it varies, so it's not a good example to use for this exercise), so if you see a cepheid that looks the same in a photo as Polaris, then that cepheid also has an apparent magnitude of 1.98.

The distance to the nearest cepheids has been determined by parallax, so the idea is that if you know the distance to one, and you know the relationship between brightness and distance, then you can work out the distance to any cepheid.

They have been referred to as standard candles. The idea is if you had a load of identical candles in a field at night, the dimmest are the furthest away and you can in principle work out how far away by how bright they appear.

Edwin Hubble used cepheids to determine the distance to M31 and basically confirm the previously unproven idea that galaxies outside our own existed.

As for the accepted value, I mean the value generally accepted by the scientific community as the correct distance to the galaxy we were looking at (whichever that was - I can't remember).
In large bold.
Can you explain how they manage to find the distance to just one, to enable them to go from that?
Just the basics will suffice.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #302 on: September 24, 2020, 06:23:16 AM »
Once more, you have accepted that for a potential round (global) Earth straight down is ground, yet looking level there is sky.
Yep, absolutely.

Quote from: JackBlack
That means that if you start looking straight down and bring your head up towards level (on a flat/level sea/water/liquid on Earth with concave sky) you must reach a point where it transitions, you must get an imaginary line below which there is land/sea and above which there is sky.

Do you accept this fact, or do you reject it?
I fully accept what is put in bold.

Do you fully accept what is in bold?

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #303 on: September 24, 2020, 06:28:20 AM »
Quote
I'll take that as you not knowing but simply following what was told...which is fine because we were all indoctrinated like that.
It's just that some of us now question it....and for good reason.

I don't expect you to accept that. You will most likely argue that you know and then not explain how you actually do know.......but....no issue with me.

So you are going on and on and on about us simply accepting as true what we have been told or what we have read etc etc and whether we have 'verified' it for ourselves or whatever.

Are you not simply doing the same with regards to your belief that the Earth is flat?  Or have you personally verified it as being true and if so how did you do it?   I would love to know.
I do not know what the Earth is in it's entirety.
I do know what it is not....and it is not, a globe.

My theory/hypothesis/thought process is what I've put forward.
I can't physically prove a lot of it....but then again I'm not asking anyone to follow it.
You or others ask what my Earth is like and I answer. That's it.

You can shout and scream from the rooftops about not accepting it and pushing your indoctrinated model forward. It's fine with me....but don't be shocked when I dismiss it as I have done and use basic logic to destroy it as far as I am concerned with it.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #304 on: September 24, 2020, 06:29:59 AM »

I'd change if I saw any good evidence, like taking a plane flight into another of these worlds you imagine to exist.

Did you visit one, is that why you believe?
Come back to me when you want to engage.

I would, but your entire argument is based on some random book you read.  And you continue to ignore most of what I say, so I'm not the one refusing to engage here. 

If you are so sure all this land exists, why not fly out there and discover it yourself? Be famous.

There are infinite worlds out there.. why are you so afraid to go look for one?
What book is this?

*

Definitely Not Swedish

  • rutabaga
  • 8309
  • Flat Earth Inspector General of High Fashion Crime
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #305 on: September 24, 2020, 06:35:32 AM »
Scep, why do you know it is not a globe?
Unless you can provide evidence, I'd like to point out that you believe it is not a globe, but you dont know it. Big difference.
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

Member of the BOTD
Sign up here.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #306 on: September 24, 2020, 06:57:48 AM »
Firstly it was a very long time ago, so I'm not likely to remember all the details.

My recollection is that other students at the observatory took photographs (actual film in those days) over a period of time. By comparing photos you spot the stars which vary in brightness. Determine the period (variation of brightness over time) and that allows you to pick out the cepheids, because they follow a very distinctive pattern. Cepheids of a given period should have a certain magnitude (brightness) at a standard distance, so the further away they are the dimmer they appear to be and there is a relationship between apparent brightness and distance. Estimating the apparent brightness is then just a case of comparing the appearance of a candidate cepheid with another star of an agreed magnitude. For example, Polaris has an apparent magnitude of 1.98 (to be fair, it varies, so it's not a good example to use for this exercise), so if you see a cepheid that looks the same in a photo as Polaris, then that cepheid also has an apparent magnitude of 1.98.

The distance to the nearest cepheids has been determined by parallax, so the idea is that if you know the distance to one, and you know the relationship between brightness and distance, then you can work out the distance to any cepheid.

They have been referred to as standard candles. The idea is if you had a load of identical candles in a field at night, the dimmest are the furthest away and you can in principle work out how far away by how bright they appear.

Edwin Hubble used cepheids to determine the distance to M31 and basically confirm the previously unproven idea that galaxies outside our own existed.

As for the accepted value, I mean the value generally accepted by the scientific community as the correct distance to the galaxy we were looking at (whichever that was - I can't remember).
In large bold.
Can you explain how they manage to find the distance to just one, to enable them to go from that?
Just the basics will suffice.

Stellar parallax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_parallax

Roughly speaking, take two photo's of the same part of the night sky 6 months apart. Compare the two. Any star which has changed position is a candidate. Work out by how much the star has changed position and then use trigonometry to work out the distance in terms of earth-sun distance (defined as 1 astronomical unit - AU), so you know how many AUs away the star is. This is only a practical solution for relatively close stars, but there are some cepheids close enough to use this method.

I can't remember if we ever worked through a practical experiment to determine parallax. It's quite likely we did because we were working through the whole thing from first principles as part of the course. At some point we were also looking at redshift, that I do remember.

I'm sorry, but this started out as an answer to a simple question. You asked solarwind if/how they had verified a distance to a galaxy. I responded because I have actually done this myself, as I explained. This is now starting to turn into a tutorial about how to measure astronomical distances, something you can go away and read about for yourself if you are that interested.

I'm sure you're going to start poking holes in the methodologies at some point, I don't really care. I just pointed out that I have done this myself in the past, that's all, because you often ask "did you verify this for yourself" - In this case, yes I did.

*

sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #307 on: September 24, 2020, 07:00:55 AM »
Scott Manly used this technique to get the distance to the moon using smart phones.

ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #308 on: September 24, 2020, 07:28:42 AM »
Stellar parallax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_parallax

Roughly speaking, take two photo's of the same part of the night sky 6 months apart. Compare the two. Any star which has changed position is a candidate. Work out by how much the star has changed position and then use trigonometry to work out the distance in terms of earth-sun distance (defined as 1 astronomical unit - AU), so you know how many AUs away the star is. This is only a practical solution for relatively close stars, but there are some cepheids close enough to use this method.

I can't remember if we ever worked through a practical experiment to determine parallax. It's quite likely we did because we were working through the whole thing from first principles as part of the course. At some point we were also looking at redshift, that I do remember.

I'm sorry, but this started out as an answer to a simple question. You asked solarwind if/how they had verified a distance to a galaxy. I responded because I have actually done this myself, as I explained. This is now starting to turn into a tutorial about how to measure astronomical distances, something you can go away and read about for yourself if you are that interested.

I'm sure you're going to start poking holes in the methodologies at some point, I don't really care. I just pointed out that I have done this myself in the past, that's all, because you often ask "did you verify this for yourself" - In this case, yes I did.
In bold.
How do you use trigonometry on these so called stars to get the distance?

Basically what is your starting point in order to elevate to these so called stars?


Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #309 on: September 24, 2020, 07:45:34 AM »
Stellar parallax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_parallax

Roughly speaking, take two photo's of the same part of the night sky 6 months apart. Compare the two. Any star which has changed position is a candidate. Work out by how much the star has changed position and then use trigonometry to work out the distance in terms of earth-sun distance (defined as 1 astronomical unit - AU), so you know how many AUs away the star is. This is only a practical solution for relatively close stars, but there are some cepheids close enough to use this method.

I can't remember if we ever worked through a practical experiment to determine parallax. It's quite likely we did because we were working through the whole thing from first principles as part of the course. At some point we were also looking at redshift, that I do remember.

I'm sorry, but this started out as an answer to a simple question. You asked solarwind if/how they had verified a distance to a galaxy. I responded because I have actually done this myself, as I explained. This is now starting to turn into a tutorial about how to measure astronomical distances, something you can go away and read about for yourself if you are that interested.

I'm sure you're going to start poking holes in the methodologies at some point, I don't really care. I just pointed out that I have done this myself in the past, that's all, because you often ask "did you verify this for yourself" - In this case, yes I did.
In bold.
How do you use trigonometry on these so called stars to get the distance?

Basically what is your starting point in order to elevate to these so called stars?

It's all explained in the Wikipedia article I linked. Look I'm not teaching basic astronomy to a class here, I'm just telling you that I did an experiment years ago to verify the distance to a galaxy and explained how I did it. Go read the article, it explains how you do it. Come back to me with any part requiring further explanation.

*

JJA

  • 6869
  • Math is math!
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #310 on: September 24, 2020, 09:02:22 AM »
Stellar parallax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_parallax

Roughly speaking, take two photo's of the same part of the night sky 6 months apart. Compare the two. Any star which has changed position is a candidate. Work out by how much the star has changed position and then use trigonometry to work out the distance in terms of earth-sun distance (defined as 1 astronomical unit - AU), so you know how many AUs away the star is. This is only a practical solution for relatively close stars, but there are some cepheids close enough to use this method.

I can't remember if we ever worked through a practical experiment to determine parallax. It's quite likely we did because we were working through the whole thing from first principles as part of the course. At some point we were also looking at redshift, that I do remember.

I'm sorry, but this started out as an answer to a simple question. You asked solarwind if/how they had verified a distance to a galaxy. I responded because I have actually done this myself, as I explained. This is now starting to turn into a tutorial about how to measure astronomical distances, something you can go away and read about for yourself if you are that interested.

I'm sure you're going to start poking holes in the methodologies at some point, I don't really care. I just pointed out that I have done this myself in the past, that's all, because you often ask "did you verify this for yourself" - In this case, yes I did.
In bold.
How do you use trigonometry on these so called stars to get the distance?

Basically what is your starting point in order to elevate to these so called stars?

Look up the details yourself, it's all out there.  Several ways.

But basically you can use two people observing the moon at the same time from far apart.  Knowing the distances between them, and measuring the moons position against the background stars you can use parallax to determine the distance to the moon.  When the moon is half illuminated it forms a right angle triangle with the sun, and basic trigonometry gives you the answer.

A more accurate method is by using the transit of Venus across the sun, watched from multiple locations. Timing the transits will give you everything you need to calculate the distance, which was done back in the 1700s.

But the modern method is using radar.  We can bounce radar signals off of Venus, and using the known speed of light we can determine it's distance very precisely.  Again, it's just trigonometry to then calculate the distance to the Sun which is at the center of both planet's orbits.

Once you know the size of Earths orbit, using parallax and trigonometry to find the distance to nearby stars is simple.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #311 on: September 24, 2020, 09:38:05 AM »


It's all explained in the Wikipedia article I linked. Look I'm not teaching basic astronomy to a class here, I'm just telling you that I did an experiment years ago to verify the distance to a galaxy and explained how I did it. Go read the article, it explains how you do it. Come back to me with any part requiring further explanation.
I'm not asking you to teach anything. I'm asking you to explain your first reference point of distance to your star, sun or whatever to gauge size and distance to be accurate or close to.

If you can't explain it then fine, just say it.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #312 on: September 24, 2020, 09:44:35 AM »
Stellar parallax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_parallax

Roughly speaking, take two photo's of the same part of the night sky 6 months apart. Compare the two. Any star which has changed position is a candidate. Work out by how much the star has changed position and then use trigonometry to work out the distance in terms of earth-sun distance (defined as 1 astronomical unit - AU), so you know how many AUs away the star is. This is only a practical solution for relatively close stars, but there are some cepheids close enough to use this method.

I can't remember if we ever worked through a practical experiment to determine parallax. It's quite likely we did because we were working through the whole thing from first principles as part of the course. At some point we were also looking at redshift, that I do remember.

I'm sorry, but this started out as an answer to a simple question. You asked solarwind if/how they had verified a distance to a galaxy. I responded because I have actually done this myself, as I explained. This is now starting to turn into a tutorial about how to measure astronomical distances, something you can go away and read about for yourself if you are that interested.

I'm sure you're going to start poking holes in the methodologies at some point, I don't really care. I just pointed out that I have done this myself in the past, that's all, because you often ask "did you verify this for yourself" - In this case, yes I did.
In bold.
How do you use trigonometry on these so called stars to get the distance?

Basically what is your starting point in order to elevate to these so called stars?

Look up the details yourself, it's all out there.  Several ways.

But basically you can use two people observing the moon at the same time from far apart.  Knowing the distances between them, and measuring the moons position against the background stars you can use parallax to determine the distance to the moon.  When the moon is half illuminated it forms a right angle triangle with the sun, and basic trigonometry gives you the answer.

A more accurate method is by using the transit of Venus across the sun, watched from multiple locations. Timing the transits will give you everything you need to calculate the distance, which was done back in the 1700s.

But the modern method is using radar.  We can bounce radar signals off of Venus, and using the known speed of light we can determine it's distance very precisely.  Again, it's just trigonometry to then calculate the distance to the Sun which is at the center of both planet's orbits.

Once you know the size of Earths orbit, using parallax and trigonometry to find the distance to nearby stars is simple.
Let's make this a bit simpler because what you're saying is massive guesswork based on made up nonsense by whoever started this garbage.

So let's make this distance stuff a bit easier.

I have a ball the size of which only I know.
I place the ball at a set distance.

I offer you all the tools you require to tell me the diameter of that ball and the distance it is at.
What tools do you use and how do you get it correct....or close to being correct?

*

JJA

  • 6869
  • Math is math!
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #313 on: September 24, 2020, 10:05:20 AM »
Stellar parallax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_parallax

Roughly speaking, take two photo's of the same part of the night sky 6 months apart. Compare the two. Any star which has changed position is a candidate. Work out by how much the star has changed position and then use trigonometry to work out the distance in terms of earth-sun distance (defined as 1 astronomical unit - AU), so you know how many AUs away the star is. This is only a practical solution for relatively close stars, but there are some cepheids close enough to use this method.

I can't remember if we ever worked through a practical experiment to determine parallax. It's quite likely we did because we were working through the whole thing from first principles as part of the course. At some point we were also looking at redshift, that I do remember.

I'm sorry, but this started out as an answer to a simple question. You asked solarwind if/how they had verified a distance to a galaxy. I responded because I have actually done this myself, as I explained. This is now starting to turn into a tutorial about how to measure astronomical distances, something you can go away and read about for yourself if you are that interested.

I'm sure you're going to start poking holes in the methodologies at some point, I don't really care. I just pointed out that I have done this myself in the past, that's all, because you often ask "did you verify this for yourself" - In this case, yes I did.
In bold.
How do you use trigonometry on these so called stars to get the distance?

Basically what is your starting point in order to elevate to these so called stars?

Look up the details yourself, it's all out there.  Several ways.

But basically you can use two people observing the moon at the same time from far apart.  Knowing the distances between them, and measuring the moons position against the background stars you can use parallax to determine the distance to the moon.  When the moon is half illuminated it forms a right angle triangle with the sun, and basic trigonometry gives you the answer.

A more accurate method is by using the transit of Venus across the sun, watched from multiple locations. Timing the transits will give you everything you need to calculate the distance, which was done back in the 1700s.

But the modern method is using radar.  We can bounce radar signals off of Venus, and using the known speed of light we can determine it's distance very precisely.  Again, it's just trigonometry to then calculate the distance to the Sun which is at the center of both planet's orbits.

Once you know the size of Earths orbit, using parallax and trigonometry to find the distance to nearby stars is simple.
Let's make this a bit simpler because what you're saying is massive guesswork based on made up nonsense by whoever started this garbage.

So let's make this distance stuff a bit easier.

I have a ball the size of which only I know.
I place the ball at a set distance.

I offer you all the tools you require to tell me the diameter of that ball and the distance it is at.
What tools do you use and how do you get it correct....or close to being correct?

This is why nobody wants to put time into debating you.

You demand to be told things, then when you are given the information you just ignore it, and demand something else.

Why should anyone bother when you have just shown that you don't care?

It's not anyone elses fault you can't understand basic trigonometry. It's all nonsense to you, and that's completely due to your ignorance on the subject.  Take some basic online classes and come back and try again.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #314 on: September 24, 2020, 10:58:17 AM »
I will second what JJA has said.  None of this is about a genuine debate about what shape the Earth is because we figured that out using a variety of methods a long, long time ago. Call it what you like Scepti it won't change the truth. 

These 'discussions' are simply an opportunity for conspiracy theory loving people to pass some time in their lives arguing with anyone who doesn't go along with their beliefs. In their view they will always win the arguments put to them because in their view they think they know differently to everyone else and obviously makes them feel good.  Fair enough. If that's what you need to do to feel good about yourself then feel free.

Scepti has demanded explanations about how we have personally 'verified' the points we have made and we have done that. Perhaps not to his satisfaction but then would we expect anything else?!?. He simply replies by talking about global 'nonsense' without apparently being able to be more specific about what made him change his mind and how he personally verified whatever it was that made him change his mind.  All we have had so far is that he is 'well aware' of what it was that made him change his mind.  In that case, please... share it with the rest of us.

There are many websites out there which talk about the psychology of conspiracy theorists and all of them say it is a waste of time arguing with them. Often the comments they make are deliberately phrased or worded to provoke a response from those who don't agree with them. When they do get a response that simply strengthens their own beliefs.  In short they enjoy arguing until those who don't agree with them simply give up.  That gives them the psychological boost of having the last word and in their view winning the argument.

So the best thing we (the globe knowing people) can do really is to fall silent and not take the bait that the conspiracy theorists cast out to us.  Take away the fuel source and the fire dies.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 11:09:57 AM by Solarwind »

*

JJA

  • 6869
  • Math is math!
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #315 on: September 24, 2020, 01:06:58 PM »
So the best thing we (the globe knowing people) can do really is to fall silent and not take the bait that the conspiracy theorists cast out to us.  Take away the fuel source and the fire dies.

There has been a lot of talk about Flat Earth regulars leaving and making the forum dead, but I think you hit the nail on the head here. It's really the non-flat earthers that really drive the conversation.

Just look at the True Believers section. Completely dead. A few threads where people archive their theories, and maybe once a year two of them will get into a discussion about something for a day.

Imagine the entire forum like that.

Of course that's true for almost any discussion. If you don't have opposing viewpoints, what is there to talk about?

*

Wolvaccine

  • EXTRA SPICY MODE
  • 25833
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #316 on: September 24, 2020, 01:33:25 PM »
That gives them the psychological boost of having the last word and in their view winning the argument.

Does that actually work? It's a thing? Do people feel they need 'the last word' in order to feel a victory? Seems ridiculous.

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

*

JackBlack

  • 21706
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #317 on: September 24, 2020, 02:02:37 PM »
I fully accept what is put in bold.
So again you avoid an extremely simple question.

This is about what you would expect for a RE, to see if your claim about it is valid or pure nonsense.
Why try switching back to a FE?
Why avoid the question yet again?
Is it because you know your argument is wrong and that this line of reasoning will clearly show why so you avoid it at all costs?

So, try sticking to what is expected for a RE for this one.
One more, you have accepted that when you look straight down, you see ground (and presumably that if you were over water you would accept you see that); and you have accepted (in fact you claimed this) that if you look straight out level, then directly at the centre of your FOV you would see sky.

The logical consequence of this is that if you start looking straight down on top of this round Earth, and raise your head, as you do so you will reach a point where you can see both ground/sea and sky, where there would be an imaginary line dividing your vision, below which you see land/sea and above which you see sky.

Do you accept this fact?


I do know what it is not....and it is not, a globe.
How?
You are yet to provide a single thing that shows that and repeatedly avoid things which show the opposite or show your arguments to be horrible flawed?
It seems more like you falsely believe it is flat and will do whatever you can to pretend that false belief is justified.

You have never used basic logic to disprove a globe. You have avoided basic logic at all costs.
Even now you avoid simple logic and extremely basic questions which show your argument to be pure nonsense.

Firstly it was a very long time ago, so I'm not likely to remember all the details.

My recollection is that other students at the observatory took photographs (actual film in those days) over a period of time. By comparing photos you spot the stars which vary in brightness. Determine the period (variation of brightness over time) and that allows you to pick out the cepheids, because they follow a very distinctive pattern. Cepheids of a given period should have a certain magnitude (brightness) at a standard distance, so the further away they are the dimmer they appear to be and there is a relationship between apparent brightness and distance. Estimating the apparent brightness is then just a case of comparing the appearance of a candidate cepheid with another star of an agreed magnitude. For example, Polaris has an apparent magnitude of 1.98 (to be fair, it varies, so it's not a good example to use for this exercise), so if you see a cepheid that looks the same in a photo as Polaris, then that cepheid also has an apparent magnitude of 1.98.

The distance to the nearest cepheids has been determined by parallax, so the idea is that if you know the distance to one, and you know the relationship between brightness and distance, then you can work out the distance to any cepheid.

They have been referred to as standard candles. The idea is if you had a load of identical candles in a field at night, the dimmest are the furthest away and you can in principle work out how far away by how bright they appear.

Edwin Hubble used cepheids to determine the distance to M31 and basically confirm the previously unproven idea that galaxies outside our own existed.

As for the accepted value, I mean the value generally accepted by the scientific community as the correct distance to the galaxy we were looking at (whichever that was - I can't remember).
In large bold.
Can you explain how they manage to find the distance to just one, to enable them to go from that?
Just the basics will suffice.
Did you miss the part right before it?

As for more, you have already been told how the distance to the sun is determined and thus the size of Earth's orbit, and thus how far Earth would have travelled in 6 months.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #318 on: September 24, 2020, 02:03:57 PM »
Well that's for you to decide isn't it. You will never hear a committed conspiracy theorist admit they are wrong no matter how compelling the evidence against their beliefs become.  For them that makes the challenge more attractive to them and increases their commitment to their cause.

So yes I agree it does seem ridiculous in this day and age to still believe (or claim to believe) the Earth is flat.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #319 on: September 24, 2020, 11:23:36 PM »
This is why nobody wants to put time into debating you.

You demand to be told things, then when you are given the information you just ignore it, and demand something else.

Why should anyone bother when you have just shown that you don't care?

It's not anyone elses fault you can't understand basic trigonometry. It's all nonsense to you, and that's completely due to your ignorance on the subject.  Take some basic online classes and come back and try again.
There's plenty of copy and paste explanations made. There's plenty of wiki stuff offered.
I'm asking for one of you to answer teh question I posed, from your own mind and using whatever tools you require to show me  how you would calculate what I mentioned....which is, this:
Let's make this a bit simpler because what you're saying is massive guesswork based on made up nonsense by whoever started this garbage.

So let's make this distance stuff a bit easier.

I have a ball the size of which only I know.
I place the ball at a set distance.

I offer you all the tools you require to tell me the diameter of that ball and the distance it is at.
What tools do you use and how do you get it correct....or close to being correct?


*

rvlvr

  • 2148
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #320 on: September 24, 2020, 11:31:10 PM »
I found this:
The most common is to measure the apparent angular diameter of the planet – how big it looks against the sky – very precisely using a telescope. Combining this with a measure of its distance (deduced from its orbit around the Sun) reveals the planet's actual size.

I am sure you will now ask how do we know how far the Sun is, or something similar.

EDIT: And as the answer above was provided by someone working for Sony Depthsensing Solutions, I'd imagine there will be some noise related to multinationals and their reptilian backers.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 11:39:48 PM by rvlvr »

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #321 on: September 24, 2020, 11:35:53 PM »
Scepti has demanded explanations about how we have personally 'verified' the points we have made and we have done that.
Perhaps not to his satisfaction but then would we expect anything else?!?.
Exactly. Nowhere near to my satisfaction.
Copy and paste does not solve any issues, it just makes your life easier.


Quote from: Solarwind

So the best thing we (the globe knowing people) can do really is to fall silent and not take the bait that the conspiracy theorists cast out to us.  Take away the fuel source and the fire dies.
Let's see if you can stick to it. I'm fine with it.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #322 on: September 25, 2020, 12:03:12 AM »
As for more, you have already been told how the distance to the sun is determined and thus the size of Earth's orbit, and thus how far Earth would have travelled in 6 months.
How did the measurements first come about to be close to what people like yourself believe to be accurate.

None of you can explain it from your own minds.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #323 on: September 25, 2020, 12:05:35 AM »
I found this:
The most common is to measure the apparent angular diameter of the planet – how big it looks against the sky – very precisely using a telescope. Combining this with a measure of its distance (deduced from its orbit around the Sun) reveals the planet's actual size.

I am sure you will now ask how do we know how far the Sun is, or something similar.

EDIT: And as the answer above was provided by someone working for Sony Depthsensing Solutions, I'd imagine there will be some noise related to multinationals and their reptilian backers.
A ball of unknown size in the distance.
How do you find the ball size and distance?

*

rvlvr

  • 2148
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #324 on: September 25, 2020, 12:23:14 AM »
Granted, yes, the answer provided deals with astronomical objects. Which I believe is more challenging than a terrestrial object.

There are ways to gauge the size from a picture too, but even that is not enough for you, I am quite sure.

"To work out the size of the object on the sensor, work out it's height in pixels, divide by the image height in pixels and multiply by the physical height of the sensor."

Pretty pointless to try to provide you with answers, as in your opinion none of them hold any water, yet you yourself cannot come up with any evidence for your, quite inane, ramblings.

EDIT: As someone already wrote you:
"You demand to be told things, then when you are given the information you just ignore it, and demand something else."
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 12:27:03 AM by rvlvr »

*

rvlvr

  • 2148
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #325 on: September 25, 2020, 12:38:36 AM »
Actually, what came first: the Earth is flat, or there is no space (as RE sees it)? Might help to unravel things, because if there is no space, then, of course, the measuring of astronomical objects cannot happen, right?

Do you believe we have been to the Moon? How far does the conspiracy go? Or are you of the opinion there is no conspiracy, but the Earth is still flat, it's just that everyone is dumb, and cannot see it, the maps work for some odd reason and so on?

*

Definitely Not Swedish

  • rutabaga
  • 8309
  • Flat Earth Inspector General of High Fashion Crime
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #326 on: September 25, 2020, 12:48:04 AM »
I found this:
The most common is to measure the apparent angular diameter of the planet – how big it looks against the sky – very precisely using a telescope. Combining this with a measure of its distance (deduced from its orbit around the Sun) reveals the planet's actual size.

I am sure you will now ask how do we know how far the Sun is, or something similar.

EDIT: And as the answer above was provided by someone working for Sony Depthsensing Solutions, I'd imagine there will be some noise related to multinationals and their reptilian backers.
A ball of unknown size in the distance.
How do you find the ball size and distance?
Doe some wavelenght stuff, use a radar, take pics with lenses spaced appart etc. Many options tbh.
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

Member of the BOTD
Sign up here.

*

rvlvr

  • 2148
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #327 on: September 25, 2020, 01:38:33 AM »
Oh yeah, true.

There was and is this one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coincidence_rangefinder

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #328 on: September 25, 2020, 01:44:02 AM »
I found this:
The most common is to measure the apparent angular diameter of the planet – how big it looks against the sky – very precisely using a telescope. Combining this with a measure of its distance (deduced from its orbit around the Sun) reveals the planet's actual size.

I am sure you will now ask how do we know how far the Sun is, or something similar.

EDIT: And as the answer above was provided by someone working for Sony Depthsensing Solutions, I'd imagine there will be some noise related to multinationals and their reptilian backers.
A ball of unknown size in the distance.
How do you find the ball size and distance?

Pretty much every discovery is built on some other discovery which came before it. If the foundations are sound and every brick on top is sound then you start from that point and move onwards and upwards. If you absolutely insist that we personally verify everything from the ground up before doing anything, then no progress will ever be made because it would take years to start from first principles, learn the required mathematics to be able to verify every equation, repeat every experiment ever made etc. etc.

We don't do that, as Isaac Newton said, we stand on the shoulders of giants. This is how progress is made.

You asked how I worked out the distance to a galaxy, I told you how. It relies on other peoples' discoveries about the nature of cepheids , it relies on other people having used the parallax method to measure distances to cepheids and that relies on other people having determined the distance to the sun and that the earth orbits around it.

Nobody is going to start from first principles, re-invent calculus, re-invent trigonometry, re-invent radar, re-discover cepheids etc. etc. just to satisfy you.

If you weren't willing to even take the first step and accept the method of parallax, then what on earth was the point in asking about the distance to a galaxy?

OK, so your ball of an unknown size and distance. Let's suppose the distance is modest, half a mile at most. Let's suppose there is a very distinctive mountain peak in the very far distance, 100 miles away or more. Line up the ball with the mountain peak. Walk a few hundred metres or so sideways. The ball will no longer line up with the mountain peak. Use a sextant or some other device to measure the angle between the ball and the mountain peak. Refer to the Wikipedia article on stellar parallax and use trigonometry to determine the approximate distance to the ball (assume the mountain is far enough away that it's effectively an infinite distance away compared to the ball).

Measure the angular diameter of the ball. Since you know the distance to the ball, use trigonometry to calculate its diameter. Happy now?

*

rvlvr

  • 2148
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #329 on: September 25, 2020, 01:49:59 AM »
I doubt he is.