What would change your mind?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5100 on: May 13, 2021, 09:26:49 PM »
What you really need to do is to measure the 8 inches per mile squared in drop at 30 km and see what that comes up with on your so called globe.
Do you mean physically measure it?
If so, no, we don't.
We can clearly observe it on the image provided, and you can come up with nothing to refute it.

How much of the turbine would you lose from a view out to 30 km by using the 8 inches per mile squared global set up?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5101 on: May 13, 2021, 10:55:29 PM »
How much of the turbine would you lose from a view out to 30 km by using the 8 inches per mile squared global set up?
I already told you that. And this was one of the questions I keep on asking you, and you keep on ignoring.
If you think there is a problem, or want to disagree, provide your own math.

The simple equation to use is h=d^2/(2*R).
But you need to note that the amount hidden is from the horizon, not from your position.
To find the distance to the horizon you also use that simple formula.

So first from the person to the horizon, assuming a 2 m, i.e. 0.002 km vantage point (i.e. eyes 2 m above sea level)
h=d^2/(2*R)
d^2=2*h*R = 2 * 0.002 km * 6371 km = 25.484 km^2
d=5.05 km (to 3 s.f., which is being generous).

Now, the distance from the horizon to the target is 30 km minus the distance to the horizon.
d = 30 km - 5.05 km = 24.95 km.

So the amount hidden is now given as:
h=d^2/(2*R) = (24.95 km)^2/(2*6371 km) = 0.0489 km = 48.9 m.

Of course, this doesn't account for refraction, which does change it slightly.
A simple correction for refraction is to pretend Earth has a radius 7/6 of what it actually is.
Doing the math with that gives 40.5 m hidden.

And like I have done before, to determine the tilt you instead have t=d * 360 degrees/(2*pi*R), which works out to be 0.27 degrees.

Now can you say anything to refute that?

Alternatively, how much should be hidden from view using your FE pure magic? Can you show any calculation to show that any should be hidden from view with water obstructing the view to the bottom, or can you just repeatedly claim that the FE magically hides it?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5102 on: May 13, 2021, 11:00:36 PM »
How much of the turbine would you lose from a view out to 30 km by using the 8 inches per mile squared global set up?
I already told you that. And this was one of the questions I keep on asking you, and you keep on ignoring.
If you think there is a problem, or want to disagree, provide your own math.

The simple equation to use is h=d^2/(2*R).
But you need to note that the amount hidden is from the horizon, not from your position.
To find the distance to the horizon you also use that simple formula.

So first from the person to the horizon, assuming a 2 m, i.e. 0.002 km vantage point (i.e. eyes 2 m above sea level)
h=d^2/(2*R)
d^2=2*h*R = 2 * 0.002 km * 6371 km = 25.484 km^2
d=5.05 km (to 3 s.f., which is being generous).

Now, the distance from the horizon to the target is 30 km minus the distance to the horizon.
d = 30 km - 5.05 km = 24.95 km.

So the amount hidden is now given as:
h=d^2/(2*R) = (24.95 km)^2/(2*6371 km) = 0.0489 km = 48.9 m.

Of course, this doesn't account for refraction, which does change it slightly.
A simple correction for refraction is to pretend Earth has a radius 7/6 of what it actually is.
Doing the math with that gives 40.5 m hidden.

And like I have done before, to determine the tilt you instead have t=d * 360 degrees/(2*pi*R), which works out to be 0.27 degrees.

Now can you say anything to refute that?

Alternatively, how much should be hidden from view using your FE pure magic? Can you show any calculation to show that any should be hidden from view with water obstructing the view to the bottom, or can you just repeatedly claim that the FE magically hides it?
Why are you dismissing the horizon?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5103 on: May 14, 2021, 12:10:27 AM »
How much of the turbine would you lose from a view out to 30 km by using the 8 inches per mile squared global set up?
I already told you that. And this was one of the questions I keep on asking you, and you keep on ignoring.
If you think there is a problem, or want to disagree, provide your own math.

The simple equation to use is h=d^2/(2*R).
But you need to note that the amount hidden is from the horizon, not from your position.
To find the distance to the horizon you also use that simple formula.

So first from the person to the horizon, assuming a 2 m, i.e. 0.002 km vantage point (i.e. eyes 2 m above sea level)
h=d^2/(2*R)
d^2=2*h*R = 2 * 0.002 km * 6371 km = 25.484 km^2
d=5.05 km (to 3 s.f., which is being generous).

Now, the distance from the horizon to the target is 30 km minus the distance to the horizon.
d = 30 km - 5.05 km = 24.95 km.

So the amount hidden is now given as:
h=d^2/(2*R) = (24.95 km)^2/(2*6371 km) = 0.0489 km = 48.9 m.

Of course, this doesn't account for refraction, which does change it slightly.
A simple correction for refraction is to pretend Earth has a radius 7/6 of what it actually is.
Doing the math with that gives 40.5 m hidden.

And like I have done before, to determine the tilt you instead have t=d * 360 degrees/(2*pi*R), which works out to be 0.27 degrees.

Now can you say anything to refute that?

Alternatively, how much should be hidden from view using your FE pure magic? Can you show any calculation to show that any should be hidden from view with water obstructing the view to the bottom, or can you just repeatedly claim that the FE magically hides it?
Why are you dismissing the horizon?
I'm not. In fact I have explicitly referred to it and used it several times.
Why can't you just respond to what has been said?
Again, can you find any fault with the math?
Can you provide any alternative math for the RE to try to produce a different result?
Can you provide any math from the FE to show how much should be hidden (the simple answer is none for the FE).

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5104 on: May 14, 2021, 04:49:56 AM »
I thjink its valid for reasonablky locating countries and oceans.

How about you?
Delfect, much?
Answer the question, not?
Can you show how it's valid in terms of going over a globe?


My impression if it is valid or not is not an issue for globers.


For flatties it is very much vlaid.
So
Deflect a little less and answer if you think its valid.

Simple yes no.
Are you some sort of politician?

Come on sceppy
You said if maps are useful to get from place to place then they are real.

Is the mercator map a valid map?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5105 on: May 15, 2021, 03:12:18 AM »
I thjink its valid for reasonablky locating countries and oceans.

How about you?
Delfect, much?
Answer the question, not?
Can you show how it's valid in terms of going over a globe?


My impression if it is valid or not is not an issue for globers.


For flatties it is very much vlaid.
So
Deflect a little less and answer if you think its valid.

Simple yes no.
Are you some sort of politician?

Come on sceppy
You said if maps are useful to get from place to place then they are real.

Is the mercator map a valid map?
Does the mercator map get you from point to point, exactly?
Do you know this for certain?

If you do then explain it to me and I'll tell you if I believe it to be a perfect example of travel.


Let me put you into a mindset from my side.
I've travelled on planes but never by using a map.
I've travelled by car by using various maps of the road and got to my destination.
The maps I've used are based on a birds eye view of the terrain via a set of drawings that will include pointers to hills and mountains, etc but never a curve.


I've been on boats sailing in waters but never used a map to navigate.


How about you?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5106 on: May 15, 2021, 03:23:10 AM »
Whata conviluted RESPONSE to a simple question.

Is mercatir a valid msp?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5107 on: May 15, 2021, 04:04:44 AM »
Whata conviluted RESPONSE to a simple question.

Is mercatir a valid msp?
What the hell is all this?
Are you in a state of frenzy or something?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5108 on: May 15, 2021, 05:15:41 AM »
No
Just pointing out youre being a pos.

Is mercator map a valid map?
You said maps are real if they get pilots from A to B.
So is mercator a valid map?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5109 on: May 15, 2021, 02:35:56 PM »
What the hell is all this?
Are you in a state of frenzy or something?
No, that would still be you.
Always refusing to address simple issues which show your claim is wrong.
You will happily pretend to go down the path of answering, but never to actually get to the point of addressing the issue.

Also note that again, this is you failing to stick to the issue.
Here you finally decided to start pretending again:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=87127.msg2317166#msg2317166
So I was nice, and responded with just that issue, providing a clear answer:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=87127.msg2317179#msg2317179
But as you were unable to find a fault with it, you just ask a question which makes no sense at all, to deflect from the fact that the globe model actually explains the observation:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=87127.msg2317182#msg2317182
Then I addressed why your question made no sense:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=87127.msg2317190#msg2317190

And then you just ignored it.

Again, If you have a tube, 1 inch in a diameter and 10 inches long, with this tube level and you looking through the tube with your eye at the midpoint of the tube's height and directly against the end of the tube, how far below the tube can an object at 1 mile distance be, in order to still be visible through the tube?
Can you see the base of a tree at 1 mile distance, if the base of the tree is 6 ft below the level of the tube?
Again, what magic prevents us from seeing the RE through a level tube?
Again, what should the tilt be (provide a number) for an object 30 km away?
How much of such an object should be hidden at a 30 km distance, if you are standing 2 m above the RE?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5110 on: May 16, 2021, 12:41:22 AM »
No
Just pointing out youre being a pos.

Is mercator map a valid map?
You said maps are real if they get pilots from A to B.
So is mercator a valid map?
I have no issue with maps being real.


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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5111 on: May 16, 2021, 01:58:21 AM »
No
Just pointing out youre being a pos.

Is mercator map a valid map?
You said maps are real if they get pilots from A to B.
So is mercator a valid map?
I have no issue with maps being real.
Then the distances shown are also correct?
So in the south of the equator the circumference from east to west becomes smaller as you progress further south.
It depends on the map.

I didn't say I have no issues with all maps being real.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5112 on: May 16, 2021, 03:05:03 AM »
No
Just pointing out youre being a pos.

Is mercator map a valid map?
You said maps are real if they get pilots from A to B.
So is mercator a valid map?
I have no issue with maps being real.
Then the distances shown are also correct?
So in the south of the equator the circumference from east to west becomes smaller as you progress further south.
It depends on the map.

I didn't say I have no issues with all maps being real.
Do you think every map that shows the southern hemisphere is fake? Can you show us a non-fake map that includes the southern hemisphere?
If a map says it shows a southern hemisphere then, absolutely I believe it to be fake.
You should be under no illusions about that considering what I've been arguing against.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5113 on: May 16, 2021, 03:37:13 AM »
So any reference to the atmosphere is fine because you happen to need the atmosphere to exist in order for your version of 'gravity' to be valid. But any reference to a southern hemisphere is faked. Presumably because your model doesn't include a southern hemisphere as such so any reference to it must be faked. OK.  So if you asked anyone living in South America, South Africa or Australia (and there are a few) which hemisphere they live in what do you think they would say?.  In reply what would you say? Because Australia, South Africa and South America certainly do exist. So where the heck are they?

Why would anybody deliberately fake a map of the entire southern hemisphere?

« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 03:56:37 AM by Solarwind »

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5114 on: May 16, 2021, 04:16:01 AM »
So any reference to the atmosphere is fine because you happen to need the atmosphere to exist in order for your version of 'gravity' to be valid. But any reference to a southern hemisphere is faked. Presumably because your model doesn't include a southern hemisphere as such so any reference to it must be faked. OK.  So if you asked anyone living in South America, South Africa or Australia (and there are a few) which hemisphere they live in what do you think they would say?.  In reply what would you say? Because Australia, South Africa and South America certainly do exist. So where the heck are they?

Why would anybody deliberately fake a map of the entire southern hemisphere?
If people are told they live on a southern hemisphere  or a northern hemisphere or a bulging equator of flattened poles, they will accept it without question but not have a clue what it is they're accepting.


Your argument is silly.

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Shifter

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5115 on: May 16, 2021, 04:26:59 AM »
So if you asked anyone living in South America, South Africa or Australia (and there are a few) which hemisphere they live in what do you think they would say?.  In reply what would you say? Because Australia, South Africa and South America certainly do exist. So where the heck are they?

Why would anybody deliberately fake a map of the entire southern hemisphere?

There is no up or down or north or south in space. Your version of Earth as viewed in space has America up top because it looks more aesthetically pleasing and perhaps represents at least symbolically how you wish the world to see you guys (up top)

There is no reason to have what we call 'North' to be 'up' or '12 o clock' and 'South' to be 'down' or '6 o clock'. We could have just as easily called the North pole the South pole and vice versa. There is no orientation like that in an infinite universe model.

To me, wherever I am, I'm up top. There is no hemisphere from my perspective. A birds eye view of me has Australia on the top, front and centre no matter how high you go. You could zoom out a billion km and then using a telescope, look down to me and 'Oh look, There is Australia, right on the top'


Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5116 on: May 16, 2021, 04:31:31 AM »
Ok
Mercator is a reasonably  valid map


Amazing!!


You realize its a equator centric cylindrical projection of a ball?

You cant possibly create such a view using a north pole centric projection.
Yours or danangs south are pole centric.

The flat earth has no "side view"

My goodness

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5117 on: May 16, 2021, 04:32:16 AM »
So if you asked anyone living in South America, South Africa or Australia (and there are a few) which hemisphere they live in what do you think they would say?.  In reply what would you say? Because Australia, South Africa and South America certainly do exist. So where the heck are they?

Why would anybody deliberately fake a map of the entire southern hemisphere?

There is no up or down or north or south in space. Your version of Earth as viewed in space has America up top because it looks more aesthetically pleasing and perhaps represents at least symbolically how you wish the world to see you guys (up top)

There is no reason to have what we call 'North' to be 'up' or '12 o clock' and 'South' to be 'down' or '6 o clock'. We could have just as easily called the North pole the South pole and vice versa. There is no orientation like that in an infinite universe model.

To me, wherever I am, I'm up top. There is no hemisphere from my perspective. A birds eye view of me has Australia on the top, front and centre no matter how high you go. You could zoom out a billion km and then using a telescope, look down to me and 'Oh look, There is Australia, right on the top'





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Shifter

  • 18827
  • 2B or not 2B
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5118 on: May 16, 2021, 04:53:30 AM »
So if you asked anyone living in South America, South Africa or Australia (and there are a few) which hemisphere they live in what do you think they would say?.  In reply what would you say? Because Australia, South Africa and South America certainly do exist. So where the heck are they?

Why would anybody deliberately fake a map of the entire southern hemisphere?

There is no up or down or north or south in space. Your version of Earth as viewed in space has America up top because it looks more aesthetically pleasing and perhaps represents at least symbolically how you wish the world to see you guys (up top)

There is no reason to have what we call 'North' to be 'up' or '12 o clock' and 'South' to be 'down' or '6 o clock'. We could have just as easily called the North pole the South pole and vice versa. There is no orientation like that in an infinite universe model.

To me, wherever I am, I'm up top. There is no hemisphere from my perspective. A birds eye view of me has Australia on the top, front and centre no matter how high you go. You could zoom out a billion km and then using a telescope, look down to me and 'Oh look, There is Australia, right on the top'




I dont bother watching when yasoooo posts his rubbish clips without summarisation or give reason as to why I should click on them so I see no reason to click on yours. Use your words. Are you yasoooo's alt?


Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place.

*

Shifter

  • 18827
  • 2B or not 2B
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5119 on: May 16, 2021, 04:55:05 AM »
Ok
Mercator is a reasonably  valid map


Amazing!!


You realize its a equator centric cylindrical projection of a ball?

You cant possibly create such a view using a north pole centric projection.
Yours or danangs south are pole centric.

The flat earth has no "side view"

My goodness

Using your model of the universe, lets say I teleport you to a void between galaxies

Which way is up? Which way is down? Which way is North? Which way is South?


Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5120 on: May 16, 2021, 06:37:44 AM »
So if you asked anyone living in South America, South Africa or Australia (and there are a few) which hemisphere they live in what do you think they would say?.  In reply what would you say? Because Australia, South Africa and South America certainly do exist. So where the heck are they?

Why would anybody deliberately fake a map of the entire southern hemisphere?

There is no up or down or north or south in space. Your version of Earth as viewed in space has America up top because it looks more aesthetically pleasing and perhaps represents at least symbolically how you wish the world to see you guys (up top)

There is no reason to have what we call 'North' to be 'up' or '12 o clock' and 'South' to be 'down' or '6 o clock'. We could have just as easily called the North pole the South pole and vice versa. There is no orientation like that in an infinite universe model.

To me, wherever I am, I'm up top. There is no hemisphere from my perspective. A birds eye view of me has Australia on the top, front and centre no matter how high you go. You could zoom out a billion km and then using a telescope, look down to me and 'Oh look, There is Australia, right on the top'




I dont bother watching when yasoooo posts his rubbish clips without summarisation or give reason as to why I should click on them so I see no reason to click on yours. Use your words. Are you yasoooo's alt?

Whos yaso?
The video is about how rich western came up with inflating the size of their penis and enstilling to dominance mentalty to the rest of the world.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5121 on: May 16, 2021, 06:39:19 AM »
Ok
Mercator is a reasonably  valid map


Amazing!!


You realize its a equator centric cylindrical projection of a ball?

You cant possibly create such a view using a north pole centric projection.
Yours or danangs south are pole centric.

The flat earth has no "side view"

My goodness

Using your model of the universe, lets say I teleport you to a void between galaxies

Which way is up? Which way is down? Which way is North? Which way is South?

Orientation dossnt matter as long as theres a general consensus and sort of rosetta to dtermine position.

But wjat DOES matter is that a side view of a flat plane doenst exist.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5122 on: May 16, 2021, 07:12:45 AM »
Quote
Your argument is silly.
Sorry for being so thick! I will remember all you have said and remember never to refer to the southern hemisphere any more.  As you say, how silly of me.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 07:14:16 AM by Solarwind »

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5123 on: May 16, 2021, 02:24:00 PM »
No
Just pointing out youre being a pos.

Is mercator map a valid map?
You said maps are real if they get pilots from A to B.
So is mercator a valid map?
I have no issue with maps being real.
Notice how you continually ignored the question yet again.
They were not asking if it was real.
They were asking if it is valid.
So by you accepting that it is real are you accepting that it is valid, i.e. that it accurately maps the world?

It really is a simple question, which you have to avoid to keep your fantasy alive.

Just like the other simple questions you keep on ignoring:
Again, If you have a tube, 1 inch in a diameter and 10 inches long, with this tube level and you looking through the tube with your eye at the midpoint of the tube's height and directly against the end of the tube, how far below the tube can an object at 1 mile distance be, in order to still be visible through the tube?
Can you see the base of a tree at 1 mile distance, if the base of the tree is 6 ft below the level of the tube?
Again, what magic prevents us from seeing the RE through a level tube?
Again, what should the tilt be (provide a number) for an object 30 km away?
How much of such an object should be hidden at a 30 km distance, if you are standing 2 m above the RE?

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JJA

  • 4510
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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5124 on: May 16, 2021, 05:06:36 PM »
I see we are trying for 200 pages.

Still talking about tubes.

Fascinating.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5125 on: May 16, 2021, 05:54:42 PM »
Not thst we re talking about but merely avoiding answering why they wete brought up to begin with

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 27785
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5126 on: May 16, 2021, 09:16:25 PM »
No
Just pointing out youre being a pos.

Is mercator map a valid map?
You said maps are real if they get pilots from A to B.
So is mercator a valid map?
I have no issue with maps being real.
Notice how you continually ignored the question yet again.
They were not asking if it was real.
They were asking if it is valid.
So by you accepting that it is real are you accepting that it is valid, i.e. that it accurately maps the world?

It really is a simple question, which you have to avoid to keep your fantasy alive.


Maps are real. Some maps represent a decent set up of the terrain we use. Some will not.
The one's that will not are the one's that tell us we are navigating a globe.



Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5127 on: May 16, 2021, 10:28:05 PM »
The one's that will not are the one's that tell us we are navigating a globe.
They seem to be the ones that work quite well. Like Google's map of a globe which allows you to zoom in far enough to easily navigate using it.
And GPS based maps which have position and distances based upon the globe.

The ones which don't work are those based upon a FE.

Again, If you have a tube, 1 inch in a diameter and 10 inches long, with this tube level and you looking through the tube with your eye at the midpoint of the tube's height and directly against the end of the tube, how far below the tube can an object at 1 mile distance be, in order to still be visible through the tube?
Can you see the base of a tree at 1 mile distance, if the base of the tree is 6 ft below the level of the tube?
Again, what magic prevents us from seeing the RE through a level tube?
Again, what should the tilt be (provide a number) for an object 30 km away?
How much of such an object should be hidden at a 30 km distance, if you are standing 2 m above the RE?

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 27785
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5128 on: May 16, 2021, 10:57:16 PM »
The one's that will not are the one's that tell us we are navigating a globe.
They seem to be the ones that work quite well. Like Google's map of a globe which allows you to zoom in far enough to easily navigate using it.
Zoom in far enough?
You're looking at pictures of a zoom in from months before, so how do you navigate?


Quote from: JackBlack
And GPS based maps which have position and distances based upon the globe.
Ground positioning systems.


Quote from: JackBlack
The ones which don't work are those based upon a FE.
In your mind, yes.


Quote from: JackBlack
Again, If you have a tube, 1 inch in a diameter and 10 inches long, with this tube level and you looking through the tube with your eye at the midpoint of the tube's height and directly against the end of the tube, how far below the tube can an object at 1 mile distance be, in order to still be visible through the tube?
It would depend on how big the object was.

Quote from: JackBlack
Can you see the base of a tree at 1 mile distance, if the base of the tree is 6 ft below the level of the tube?
No. Not on your globe.

Quote from: JackBlack
Again, what magic prevents us from seeing the RE through a level tube?
The fact there is no globe.


Quote from: JackBlack
Again, what should the tilt be (provide a number) for an object 30 km away?
How much of such an object should be hidden at a 30 km distance, if you are standing 2 m above the RE?
Just work out the drop of 8 inches per mile squared.
Bear that in mind that the drop would have to be he tilt because your object is not just going to sink, plumb into the sea.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #5129 on: May 16, 2021, 11:32:53 PM »
No
Just pointing out youre being a pos.

Is mercator map a valid map?
You said maps are real if they get pilots from A to B.
So is mercator a valid map?
I have no issue with maps being real.
Notice how you continually ignored the question yet again.
They were not asking if it was real.
They were asking if it is valid.
So by you accepting that it is real are you accepting that it is valid, i.e. that it accurately maps the world?

It really is a simple question, which you have to avoid to keep your fantasy alive.


Maps are real. Some maps represent a decent set up of the terrain we use. Some will not.
The one's that will not are the one's that tell us we are navigating a globe.

So this convulted response says mercator is invalid because it is a side projection of the ball along the equator.
Which is impossible and uneccessary for a flat plane.


Is that right?
Simple yes no.