What would change your mind?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3780 on: March 07, 2021, 01:39:33 AM »
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It's pretty difficult to find real evidence of a globe because there is no real evidence.

What is the evidence that proves you are right then?  What is the evidence that proves the Sun and Moon are anything other than a G2V type star and the Earths natural satellite respectively?  What evidence is there to prove the Sun is not a star.... as we've been told?

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My overall thought process up to now is, we 100% do not live on a globe and the Earth is most certainly something different to what we've been coaxed into believing.

Fair enough. I really would like to know how equatorial mounts work 100% successfully in both the northern and southern hemispheres then if Earth is not a globe.  It's the most obvious answer and you don't need to be told that.  If I am told something and I can then go and try it myself then what do I conclude about what I have been told?
Explain an equatorial mount in simple terms that proves a globe and not a concave dome.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3781 on: March 07, 2021, 01:40:14 AM »
what you are missing is the fact that the RE SHOULD have a horizon
No, I'm not missing anything to do with that..... you are.
As you are still unable to explain why it shouldn't have a horizon, and instead can only try to explain why it shouldn't be visible with a 0 degree non-FOV level sight, you are certainly the one missing it.

Now again, why shouldn't the RE have a horizon?
What visually separates the ground/sea and the sky on a RE?
Do you have any answer at all, or can you just continue with the same lies and deflection?

You need to remember that I changed my mind from a globe and not just at the drop of a hat.
It certainly wasn't because of any rational thought or evidence, as you are incapable of providing any to support your FE fantasy or to refute the RE.

With how you act, it seems to be more an act of rebellion.


Not just slightly wrong but massively wrong overall in following the global model set out for you.
That's not a dig at people who follow that.
That is a dig, as you are basically calling us all morons, with absolutely nothing to justify that insult.


you find it soothing that you have somewhere to join in with internet bullies
If that was going to be the case, he would have joined in with you.

I can only go on what I can argue against in what is put out by global minded people.
Then why do you continually spout your pathetic strawmen, which are nothing like what is put out by the "global minded people"?

You follow a curriculum. You follow what is set out for you to regurgitate from memory once exam time comes around.
It's as simple as that.
It really isn't.
For sciences, if you try that you will be quite likely to fail.
Any decent institution will have questions that require you to actually think, rather than just regurgitate from memory.

It's pretty difficult to find real evidence of a globe because there is no real evidence.
The only reason you think there is "no real evidence" is because you dismiss all the real evidence as a con-job.

Amazingly enough, if you dismiss all the evidence and pretend it isn't real, then you will think there is no real evidence.

My overall thought process up to now is, we 100% do not live on a globe and the Earth is most certainly something different to what we've been coaxed into believing.
And that's the problem. There is no justification for it at all, it is just you being absolutely certain that Earth cannot be round, so you dismiss or ignore everything which shows it is. It shows blind faith, just like a religion.

It could well be you lot denying an alternate Earth to the one you follow unconditionally, it seems.
The fundamental distinction is what side has evidence and logical thought to back them up.
That would be the RE side, backed up by mountains of evidence and logical reasoning.
Unlike the FE side, based upon a wilful rejection of evidence, dismissing anything that shows they are wrong as part of a massive conspiracy or using whatever BS they can to pretend it isn't a problem, and arguing against the RE by setting up pathetic strawmen.
You can't even bring yourself to answer an extremely simple question because of how much you despise the RE and despise being wrong.

If your position wasn't based upon denial you would have already answered the question entirely.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3782 on: March 07, 2021, 01:45:44 AM »
You talk about alternate theories.  OK during the mid 20th century there were two theories about the origin and age of the Universe.  One said that the Universe had a beginning and was expanding.  The other said the Universe did not have a beginning and was essentially static.

One theory predicted there should be an 'echo' of when the beginning happened.  In the 1960s that echo was detected and so evidence was found which provided overwhelming support for one theory over the other.  So the steady state theory was discarded.

How about you simple explain this space echo.
I'm being serious. Just explain it nice and briefly and simply.
A simple analogy will suffice so  get what's being said.


Quote from: Solarwind
If we say that the Big Bang is equivalent to the globe theory and the steady state theory is equivalent to your theory, what is needed is some compelling and verifiable evidence that your theory is correct and therefore a better theory than the globe model.  Where is that evidence?
The big bang is what?
What exactly is it?
 want your words simply and briefly. A simple analogy, if you want to.

Quote from: Solarwind
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It's based on simple experiments

OK explain these experiments fully so we have something to go on.  Not just your claims about 'simple experiments'.
Low pressure chambers are a good indication of why there's a dome like structure above us, holding everything in.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3783 on: March 07, 2021, 01:49:48 AM »
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Explain an equatorial mount in simple terms that proves a globe and not a concave dome.

There are many, many websites which do this already but as usual I have done the donkey work for you because you can't do anything for yourself can you.

https://www.spaceoddities.eu/2018/08/astrophotography-what-is-an-equatorial-mount-and-how-does-it-work/

Two point in the sky, 180 degrees apart from each other.  Polar axis should line up with either north or south celestial pole so the mount is lined up with the Earths polar axis.  How could any of this work if the Earth itself was a concave dome?  Whatever that is.  Same as a convex dome but looking inside out rather than outside in I guess.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3784 on: March 07, 2021, 01:50:41 AM »

You can't even bring yourself to answer an extremely simple question because of how much you despise the RE and despise being wrong.


You seem to be getting irate. You're acting all personal in guarding a globe model. Why?
I don't agree with your model, get over it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3785 on: March 07, 2021, 01:52:51 AM »
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Explain an equatorial mount in simple terms that proves a globe and not a concave dome.

There are many, many websites which do this already but as usual I have done the donkey work for you because you can't do anything for yourself can you.

https://www.spaceoddities.eu/2018/08/astrophotography-what-is-an-equatorial-mount-and-how-does-it-work/

Two point in the sky, 180 degrees apart from each other.  Polar axis should line up with either north or south celestial pole so the mount is lined up with the Earths polar axis.  How could any of this work if the Earth itself was a concave dome?  Whatever that is.  Same as a convex dome but looking inside out rather than outside in I guess.
Explain like I'm a slow person who is child like.

What you're saying means nothing.
Take me outside and point and set up your mount and show me.

Explain it from that set up.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3786 on: March 07, 2021, 02:01:37 AM »
You can't even bring yourself to answer an extremely simple question because of how much you despise the RE and despise being wrong.
You seem to be getting irate. You're acting all personal in guarding a globe model. Why?
I don't agree with your model, get over it.
No, I'm not acting all personal.
I'm just sick of you continually using whatever dishonest BS you can think of to avoid extremely simple questions which show you are wrong.
You are wrong, get over it.

Again, WHY SHOULDN'T THE RE HAVE A HORIZON?
Can you honestly answer that question for once instead of ignoring it or dodging with some other BS?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3787 on: March 07, 2021, 02:43:26 AM »
Regarding your reply #3782, why do you always insist on us explaining anything to you?  What difference will it make?  You have already made your mind up about what you want to believe and what you don't so us explaining anything to you is pointless.  Especially when you can read up all about it on literally millions of websites. 

If you don't understand how one explains it find another one.  That's what everyone else does.  In the meantime you sit there proudly on your pedestal and do bugger all.  Whatever we try to explain to you is dismissed outright in your very next post anyway.

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Low pressure chambers are a good indication of why there's a dome like structure above us, holding everything in.

I asked you to describe your 'simple experiments'.  What does this mean about low pressure chambers?  Have you got one handy?  How does it work? What does it do?  You have once again just made a claim with absolutely no details.  How do these low pressure chambers hold everything in?  Break it down into nice simple terms so this dummy understands you. 

When I have done experiments in the past I have had to explain what my hypothesis is, what my equipment is going to be, what I am going to do, set out my results and conclusion and account for errors.   How about you do the same with your 'simple experiments'.  It can't be too hard for you.  If I had just handed an assignment in saying I had done the experiment I would have failed straight away.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3788 on: March 07, 2021, 04:50:30 AM »
You can't even bring yourself to answer an extremely simple question because of how much you despise the RE and despise being wrong.
You seem to be getting irate. You're acting all personal in guarding a globe model. Why?
I don't agree with your model, get over it.
No, I'm not acting all personal.
I'm just sick of you continually using whatever dishonest BS you can think of to avoid extremely simple questions which show you are wrong.
You are wrong, get over it.
I don't believe I am, so you get over it.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3789 on: March 07, 2021, 04:57:05 AM »
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What you're saying means nothing.

That's your problem not mine.  Learn about it then.  There is plenty of information online to help you.


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Take me outside and point and set up your mount and show me.

OK when are you free to pop round then and I will. 

1. Level the mount and aim it roughly north or south depending on your location.
2. Adjust the mount so it is set to very nearly my known latitude.  I can use Polaris to obtain latitude in the northern hemisphere.
3. Now you can use a polar scope, drift alignment or the PoleMaster camera to get more accurate polar alignment. For visual use approximate is more than adequate. For long exposure images you need the alignment to be as good as you can get it.  I use the PoleMaster as it is the quickest and most accurate method.

4. Load PoleMaster software and then follow the procedure given by the software to achieve polar alignment accurate to better than 30" within 10 minutes.

5. Connect mount to ASCOM compliant star chart software, calibrate home position of mount (I use home position 3 for my AP 1200GTO mount since it is pointing directly to the NCP) and then do a test aim to a star.  Verify for accuracy by using plate solving.

Job done.

All the above is done using my own equipment.  Happy to list it along with all the software I use if you are interested.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 04:59:55 AM by Solarwind »

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3790 on: March 07, 2021, 05:04:47 AM »
Regarding your reply #3782, why do you always insist on us explaining anything to you?
I ask. It's entirely up to you people whether you want to explain. I simply ask you to do it from your own head in simple terms.
Rarely does anyone oblige and fair enough.
Copy and paste is fine for those who accept it. I already question teh stuff being copied and pasted. I ask for clarity from the person. Simplified as they see it.
Feel free to ignore anything I say but don't whine when you feel you're not getting anywhere.


Quote from: Solarwind
What difference will it make?
None if that's how you look at it. Make a difference and do what I asked, or don't and carry on with something that does not include me.

Quote from: Solarwind
You have already made your mind up about what you want to believe and what you don't so us explaining anything to you is pointless.
I have certainly made up my mind about a global spinning Earth and space vacuum being nonsense.
Prove me wrong.
Show me I'm wrong.
If you find it difficult rthen nail it with something physical. If you can't, then I can't help you.
Quote from: Solarwind
  Especially when you can read up all about it on literally millions of websites.
Of course I can but then again, I read up on lots of this stuff and did well before I came here. I disagree with it and have my reasons.
You cannot verify what you're reading about when it pertains to this.


 
Quote from: Solarwind
If you don't understand how one explains it find another one.
I do. I look at all ways. I see nothing that shows me reality.

Quote from: Solarwind
That's what everyone else does.
Yep. It's called mass acceptance of mainstream explanations.

Quote from: Solarwind
In the meantime you sit there proudly on your pedestal and do bugger all.
I do plenty but it doesn't suit you. I don't care about whether it does or not.

Quote from: Solarwind
  Whatever we try to explain to you is dismissed outright in your very next post anyway.
Only if it makes no sense.


Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3791 on: March 07, 2021, 05:22:34 AM »
Like I said.  How do you explain the successful operation of equatorial mounts in the southern hemisphere based around your non-globe model.  That is something physical and very real.  So explain it.

The PoleMaster camera has an FOV of a couple of degrees and adjust the gain and exposure so you can see the stars immediately surrounding the NCP/SCP.  There is then a template overlaid on the image which shows the position of known stars. By rotating the mount in RA the software is able to calculate any error between the axis of rotation of the mount and the actual celestial pole.  You then manually adjust the mount until the two coincide.  At that point your mount is polar aligned.

Since we are using multiple stars within a couple of degrees of the actual celestial pole it is irrelevant that there no bright star near the SCP itself is there is for the northern hemisphere.

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It's called mass acceptance of mainstream explanations.

Not everything that is explained to us is wrong you know.  Even if you don't agree with it.

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Make a difference and do what I asked

Do as you ask?  Are you my boss or something?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 05:42:27 AM by Solarwind »

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3792 on: March 07, 2021, 06:28:57 AM »
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What you're saying means nothing.

That's your problem not mine. 
It's not a problem to me.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3793 on: March 07, 2021, 06:30:45 AM »
Quote from: Solarwind


Quote
Take me outside and point and set up your mount and show me.

OK when are you free to pop round then and I will. 

1. Level the mount and aim it roughly north or south depending on your location.
2. Adjust the mount so it is set to very nearly my known latitude.  I can use Polaris to obtain latitude in the northern hemisphere.
3. Now you can use a polar scope, drift alignment or the PoleMaster camera to get more accurate polar alignment. For visual use approximate is more than adequate. For long exposure images you need the alignment to be as good as you can get it.  I use the PoleMaster as it is the quickest and most accurate method.

4. Load PoleMaster software and then follow the procedure given by the software to achieve polar alignment accurate to better than 30" within 10 minutes.

5. Connect mount to ASCOM compliant star chart software, calibrate home position of mount (I use home position 3 for my AP 1200GTO mount since it is pointing directly to the NCP) and then do a test aim to a star.  Verify for accuracy by using plate solving.

Job done.

All the above is done using my own equipment.  Happy to list it along with all the software I use if you are interested.
Ok and none of that proves a globe and you know it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3794 on: March 07, 2021, 06:32:10 AM »
Not everything that is explained to us is wrong you know.
Most likely not.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3795 on: March 07, 2021, 07:27:44 AM »


No, you said you are sure because it makes no sense to you.  That's ignorance, not logic.
It makes no sense because evidence.....real evidence shows it to be nonsense, not just the thought process of the nonsense of it.

If the "thought process" to you is nonsense that means you don't actually understand the concept.  I can make up a theory that dragons flap their wings to push you up and unicorns stomp on you to pull you down and I can UNDERSTAND how that would move things, even if it's complete nonsense.

Your inability to understand HOW gravity is meant to work is what is limiting you here, you can't comprehend hot it works, thus you making nonsense comments like the curve being uphill or downhill or not understanding how people don't fall off the bottom of the world.

You just reject it all because you can't understand the ideas behind it.  It's that simple.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3796 on: March 07, 2021, 08:23:05 AM »
If the "thought process" to you is nonsense that means you don't actually understand the concept.  I can make up a theory that dragons flap their wings to push you up and unicorns stomp on you to pull you down and I can UNDERSTAND how that would move things, even if it's complete nonsense.
You're basically describing your gravity.



Quote from: JJA

Your inability to understand HOW gravity is meant to work is what is limiting you here, you can't comprehend hot it works, thus you making nonsense comments like the curve being uphill or downhill or not understanding how people don't fall off the bottom of the world.
I have no issues about understanding how people don't fall off the bottom of the world. It doesn't exist for people to fall off it and people like you should know better.



Quote from: JJA

You just reject it all because you can't understand the ideas behind it.  It's that simple.
Do you understand the ideas behind star trek or star wars?

Have a think on that.
People like you pretend the universe just sprung up from a big bang, out of nothing.
And you say I don't understand. What an utter joke.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3797 on: March 07, 2021, 08:34:36 AM »
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Ok and none of that proves a globe and you know it.

You asked me how I set up my own mount.  So that's how I do it.

You are right about everything and we are wrong.  Because we fall into the trap of accepting everything we are told and we have needed you to rescue us from our severe indoctrination.

There you go...  happy?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 08:36:56 AM by Solarwind »

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3798 on: March 07, 2021, 09:22:16 AM »
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Ok and none of that proves a globe and you know it.

You asked me how I set up my own mount.  So that's how I do it.

You are right about everything and we are wrong.  Because we fall into the trap of accepting everything we are told and we have needed you to rescue us from our severe indoctrination.

There you go...  happy?
In terms of you once believing it was a globe but now realise it isn't....yes, I'm happy.
At least you know.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3799 on: March 07, 2021, 10:37:57 AM »
All I've got to do now is to know a bit more about your model..  So help me out with that.  What is my new vision of the world like?!?  Exactly what shape is it to start with and how did it get to be that shape?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 12:30:39 PM by Solarwind »

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3800 on: March 07, 2021, 02:25:06 PM »
You can't even bring yourself to answer an extremely simple question because of how much you despise the RE and despise being wrong.
You seem to be getting irate. You're acting all personal in guarding a globe model. Why?
I don't agree with your model, get over it.
No, I'm not acting all personal.
I'm just sick of you continually using whatever dishonest BS you can think of to avoid extremely simple questions which show you are wrong.
You are wrong, get over it.
I don't believe I am, so you get over it.
If you don't believe you are, then ANSWER THE QUESTION That you have been avoiding almost from the start of this thread.

Why shouldn't a RE have a horizon?
It is an extremely simple question which you continually refuse to answer, which you continually deflect from, where an honest answer shows you are wrong.

If you actually believed you were not wrong, you would be able to answer the question, or at least admit you have no idea why it shouldn't.

Regarding your reply #3782, why do you always insist on us explaining anything to you?
I ask. It's entirely up to you people whether you want to explain. I simply ask you to do it from your own head in simple terms.
The issue isn't simply you asking, it is why you ask and what purpose you think it serves?
The only reason you seem to ask is to deflect from your complete inability to explain anything.

When an explanation is provided you either just dismiss it as nonsense or the like without cause, without any explanation at all, or ignore it in its entirety.
If it actually made no sense, you would be able to explain why, as we repeatedly do with your nonsense. But you can't. Instead you just say it is nonsense and leave it at that.
This shows that you are not interested in actually getting an explanation. You are just using it to avoid the fact you can't explain anything.


I disagree with it and have my reasons.
And so far, those "reasons" seem to be they show there is no problem with the RE and you hate the RE.
You cannot verify what you're reading about when it pertains to this.

Ok and none of that proves a globe and you know it.
Yes it does. The fact you can use it anywhere on the RE to accurately track stars against the rotation of Earth shows that Earth is round. It cannot distinguish between Earth rotating and the sky rotating, but it can distinguish between the RE and a FE.
It shows that either Earth rotates on its axis, or the sky rotates as a sphere, with the stars incredibly far away (many times the size of Earth), with the axis of rotation inclined relative to your location on Earth.
This inclination is one of the most important parts, as the inclination varies across Earth.
The axis is the same for everyone, but the inclination of it relative to the ground varies. That means the orientation of the ground varies. And that variation is that for a round Earth.

If Earth was flat, with the stars still vastly distant, then the inclination of the axis would be the same everywhere.
And if the stars were near, they would appear to trace elliptical paths in the night sky, and a simple equatorial mount would not be capable of following them.

So yes, it does "prove" a RE, beyond any sane doubt.

I have no issues about understanding how people don't fall off the bottom of the world. It doesn't exist for people to fall off it and people like you should know better.
And this further shows a complete lack of understanding. You are only ever viewing things in the context of your FE fantasy.
The question is not about your fantasy, it is about the RE model.
There is no reason in the RE model for why people wouldn't fall off. But you don't like that fact.

Do you understand the ideas behind star trek or star wars?
No. They have no explanation for what is in their dilithium crystals.
Lithium is a metal which would experience metallic bonding and simply produce lithium metal. Dilithium makes no sense.
Likewise, aluminium is a metal, this means it has an electron cloud which interacts with incoming radiation to reflect/scatter it, making it impossible to have transparent aluminium.
Likewise, they have no explanation at all for why a matter-antimatter reaction distorts spacetime to such an extent, and in such a controllable manner to offer warp speed.
Likewise, they have no explanation for why the Enterprise, under Captain Kirk is capable of going from the galactic rim to the centre of the galaxy in roughly 5 years, with a bunch of screwing around in between, yet Voyager, a much improved and faster ship would take 70 years to cross a comparable 70 000 light years, especially when travelling at their stated max cruising speed it would take approximately 5 to 10 years to cross the entire galaxy.
Likewise, they have no explanation at all for how their artificial gravity work.
And so on.
I can show you many parts of Star Trek that makes no sense.

Star Wars is pure fantasy, relying upon "the force", a purely magical idea. Not to mention their lightsabres with no real power source. In cannon the ones which made more sense were the ones which required a quite substantial battery pack.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3801 on: March 07, 2021, 03:33:08 PM »
Denialism is present all around us in different forms. It's defined basically as "a person's choice to avoid a psychologically uncomfortable truth. It's an irrational action where a person refuses to accept an empirically verifiable reality." Flat earth is an extreme denial. The most extreme denial.

The pathway to such an extreme denial is fascinating. Propaganda is a big part of it, but there has to be another underlying psychological reason.

It's a shame that Mike Hughes, a passionate flat earther, died on his homemade rocket, before reaching the height he wanted, and satisfying his curiosity as to the shape of the world.

A homemade helium balloon, if flat earthers were legitimate about truth, could reach a height of 35 kilometers with go pro cameras filming the whole journey. It's affordable, and it's already been done.

This leads us back to the psychological reasons for wanting to continue living in denial, and not wanting to do such an experiment with a helium balloon and go pro cameras.
The key question is in bold and who it actually does apply to. It could well be you lot denying an alternate Earth to the one you follow unconditionally, it seems.

Sceptimatic, only half of the key question, you have put in bold. The other half is, "and not wanting to do such an experiment with a helium balloon and go pro cameras"

I've got an hour up my sleeve today, which is 40 minutes more than I care to devote to this forum and your looniness, today. But, I will do your tube experiment (which you appear too lazy to do yourself) and we'll see how much denial you can come up with. Oh, and I expect a suggestion on what practical usefulness the tubes and chicken costume will bring me.

Why haven't you asked one of us to do the helium balloon to a height of 35 kilometers with go pro experiment? In fact, why haven't you or your sidekick, jack455667788 done the experiment yourselves and posted up the results?

You want usernames of flat earther traitors? What do you want to do to them?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 04:13:22 PM by Smoke Machine »

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3802 on: March 07, 2021, 03:43:19 PM »
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The issue isn't simply you asking, it is why you ask and what purpose you think it serves?
The only reason you seem to ask is to deflect from your complete inability to explain anything.

When an explanation is provided you either just dismiss it as nonsense or the like without cause, without any explanation at all, or ignore it in its entirety.
If it actually made no sense, you would be able to explain why, as we repeatedly do with your nonsense. But you can't. Instead you just say it is nonsense and leave it at that.
This shows that you are not interested in actually getting an explanation. You are just using it to avoid the fact you can't explain anything.

I think another reason is that whenever Scepti asks us to 'explain' anything he knows that whatever we say is going to be different to what he believes and so that gives him the excuse he needs to disagree with us and dismiss whatever we say as the 'global nonsense we have been indoctrinated with' or words to that effect. The trick with these people is to be sympathetic with them and almost agree with them rather than challenging them.   

Conspiracy theorists expect to be challenged about what they believe.  That is what feeds them and what they thrive on.  It is when people agree with them that they come unstuck because then their egos have nothing to feed from.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 03:51:55 PM by Solarwind »

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3803 on: March 08, 2021, 02:28:08 AM »
All I've got to do now is to know a bit more about your model..  So help me out with that.  What is my new vision of the world like?!?  Exactly what shape is it to start with and how did it get to be that shape?
If you want me to help you with it then stop having digs after every explanation. ls.

The shape is like a decaying cell with a membrane covering...basically.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3804 on: March 08, 2021, 02:30:43 AM »
You can't even bring yourself to answer an extremely simple question because of how much you despise the RE and despise being wrong.
You seem to be getting irate. You're acting all personal in guarding a globe model. Why?
I don't agree with your model, get over it.
No, I'm not acting all personal.
I'm just sick of you continually using whatever dishonest BS you can think of to avoid extremely simple questions which show you are wrong.
You are wrong, get over it.
I don't believe I am, so you get over it.
If you don't believe you are, then ANSWER THE QUESTION That you have been avoiding almost from the start of this thread.

Why shouldn't a RE have a horizon?
It is an extremely simple question which you continually refuse to answer, which you continually deflect from, where an honest answer shows you are wrong.

If you actually believed you were not wrong, you would be able to answer the question, or at least admit you have no idea why it shouldn't.

Regarding your reply #3782, why do you always insist on us explaining anything to you?
I ask. It's entirely up to you people whether you want to explain. I simply ask you to do it from your own head in simple terms.
The issue isn't simply you asking, it is why you ask and what purpose you think it serves?
The only reason you seem to ask is to deflect from your complete inability to explain anything.

When an explanation is provided you either just dismiss it as nonsense or the like without cause, without any explanation at all, or ignore it in its entirety.
If it actually made no sense, you would be able to explain why, as we repeatedly do with your nonsense. But you can't. Instead you just say it is nonsense and leave it at that.
This shows that you are not interested in actually getting an explanation. You are just using it to avoid the fact you can't explain anything.


I disagree with it and have my reasons.
And so far, those "reasons" seem to be they show there is no problem with the RE and you hate the RE.
You cannot verify what you're reading about when it pertains to this.

Ok and none of that proves a globe and you know it.
Yes it does. The fact you can use it anywhere on the RE to accurately track stars against the rotation of Earth shows that Earth is round. It cannot distinguish between Earth rotating and the sky rotating, but it can distinguish between the RE and a FE.
It shows that either Earth rotates on its axis, or the sky rotates as a sphere, with the stars incredibly far away (many times the size of Earth), with the axis of rotation inclined relative to your location on Earth.
This inclination is one of the most important parts, as the inclination varies across Earth.
The axis is the same for everyone, but the inclination of it relative to the ground varies. That means the orientation of the ground varies. And that variation is that for a round Earth.

If Earth was flat, with the stars still vastly distant, then the inclination of the axis would be the same everywhere.
And if the stars were near, they would appear to trace elliptical paths in the night sky, and a simple equatorial mount would not be capable of following them.

So yes, it does "prove" a RE, beyond any sane doubt.

I have no issues about understanding how people don't fall off the bottom of the world. It doesn't exist for people to fall off it and people like you should know better.
And this further shows a complete lack of understanding. You are only ever viewing things in the context of your FE fantasy.
The question is not about your fantasy, it is about the RE model.
There is no reason in the RE model for why people wouldn't fall off. But you don't like that fact.

Do you understand the ideas behind star trek or star wars?
No. They have no explanation for what is in their dilithium crystals.
Lithium is a metal which would experience metallic bonding and simply produce lithium metal. Dilithium makes no sense.
Likewise, aluminium is a metal, this means it has an electron cloud which interacts with incoming radiation to reflect/scatter it, making it impossible to have transparent aluminium.
Likewise, they have no explanation at all for why a matter-antimatter reaction distorts spacetime to such an extent, and in such a controllable manner to offer warp speed.
Likewise, they have no explanation for why the Enterprise, under Captain Kirk is capable of going from the galactic rim to the centre of the galaxy in roughly 5 years, with a bunch of screwing around in between, yet Voyager, a much improved and faster ship would take 70 years to cross a comparable 70 000 light years, especially when travelling at their stated max cruising speed it would take approximately 5 to 10 years to cross the entire galaxy.
Likewise, they have no explanation at all for how their artificial gravity work.
And so on.
I can show you many parts of Star Trek that makes no sense.

Star Wars is pure fantasy, relying upon "the force", a purely magical idea. Not to mention their lightsabres with no real power source. In cannon the ones which made more sense were the ones which required a quite substantial battery pack.
Now that you think like that you'd be serving yourself a comfort of actually questioning your global model ith space dessert.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 27372
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3805 on: March 08, 2021, 02:35:49 AM »


You want usernames of flat earther traitors? What do you want to do to them?
What the hell are you talking about?

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 27372
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3806 on: March 08, 2021, 02:37:31 AM »
Quote
The issue isn't simply you asking, it is why you ask and what purpose you think it serves?
The only reason you seem to ask is to deflect from your complete inability to explain anything.

When an explanation is provided you either just dismiss it as nonsense or the like without cause, without any explanation at all, or ignore it in its entirety.
If it actually made no sense, you would be able to explain why, as we repeatedly do with your nonsense. But you can't. Instead you just say it is nonsense and leave it at that.
This shows that you are not interested in actually getting an explanation. You are just using it to avoid the fact you can't explain anything.

I think another reason is that whenever Scepti asks us to 'explain' anything he knows that whatever we say is going to be different to what he believes and so that gives him the excuse he needs to disagree with us and dismiss whatever we say as the 'global nonsense we have been indoctrinated with' or words to that effect. The trick with these people is to be sympathetic with them and almost agree with them rather than challenging them.   

Conspiracy theorists expect to be challenged about what they believe.  That is what feeds them and what they thrive on.  It is when people agree with them that they come unstuck because then their egos have nothing to feed from.
I think the easiest would be for you to totally ignore what I say and concentrate on other things.
If you think like you do then do yourself a favour.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3807 on: March 08, 2021, 02:42:25 AM »
Now that you think like that you'd be serving yourself a comfort of actually questioning your global model ith space dessert.
And there you go ignoring everything yet again.

I have questioned it, but unlike you, I don't think questioning means just outright rejecting it.
For one such example.
As far as I can tell, the RE should have a horizon, but you claim otherwise.
Again, why shouldn't the RE have a horizon?
What should be separating the ground/sea from the sky visually?

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 27372
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3808 on: March 08, 2021, 03:29:54 AM »
Now that you think like that you'd be serving yourself a comfort of actually questioning your global model ith space dessert.
And there you go ignoring everything yet again.

I have questioned it, but unlike you, I don't think questioning means just outright rejecting it.
For one such example.
As far as I can tell, the RE should have a horizon, but you claim otherwise.
Again, why shouldn't the RE have a horizon?
What should be separating the ground/sea from the sky visually?
When you deal with what I originally said, then I'll be happy to go through it.


Just to recap for you...niot that you need it, as you well know.

My argument was. I'll bold it.

My argument was: If you are stood upright and looking level out to sea....if you were on a globe, you would not see the sea, you would only see sky.
Forget the obvious reasons that you would see the sea with a sea being impossible to stay on a globe, just look at it from the position of your globe being curved downwards and away from your level sight. This means your level sight does not bring any downward curve back into play, it would do the opposite and actually create a height difference under each inch of level view.

It simply means you would see sky.


Now let me make this clear, also.We are not arguing about bowing your head and lifting it up slowly until you supposedly see Earth's global edge....somehow, so get that out of your head.
All you do is twist the argument, which is absolutely fine...but don't whine when I overlook a lot of the stuff.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3809 on: March 08, 2021, 04:19:44 AM »
Mand it has been said many times whst is wrong with your premise.... yet you never address and continue to parrot the same claim over and over.



Take a ruler stick.
Take a basket ball.
Place the ruler on the ball.
Does it wrap itself around the ball or does it touch it at one point?
That point is where the curve of the ball curves away from your level sight.
It is the "edge".
The "horizon".