What would change your mind?

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3660 on: February 26, 2021, 04:28:12 PM »
@jja

I know you have extreme bias in this regard, and you are defending something you love (astronomy).

As a part of me loves it to, I will try to be more sensitive than usual.

It is astronomy's (and others) abuse (incorrect usage) of the word experiment that makes you defend such an indefensible position.

In truth (and by semantical definition) there is no science or scientific discipline in which observation is a synonym for experiment - nor are they functionally equivilant / substitutable for one another.

ONLY natural law can be established by mere observation in science.  The rest requires experiment (it's not an optional step in the scientific method).

You should look in the mirror before accusing others of extreme bias.

Looking through a tube to determine if you can see the ground sloping away from you is an experiment.  It's got a hypothesis, it's got a prediction, it's got a method to test that prediction and possible results that could falsify it.

Experiments were run, and the results showed exactly what was predicted.  Yeah, you can see the ground.  Not much of an experiment, but it certainly qualifies. We proved that light behaves exactly as described when going through a tube, not whatever strange behavior skeptimatic thinks it does instead.


Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3661 on: February 26, 2021, 08:36:46 PM »
I know you have extreme bias in this regard
You should really try to understand what bias is.
Someone accepting something as true doesn't mean they have an extreme bias towards it, nor does them defending it.
But you lot sure do seem to need to make up excuses for what is wrong with REers, rather than focusing on the arguments presented.

It is astronomy's (and others) abuse (incorrect usage) of the word experiment that makes you defend such an indefensible position.
Are you sure it isn't your abuse and incorrect usage, where you want to dismiss things which don't prop up a FE?

In truth (and by semantical definition) there is no science or scientific discipline in which observation is a synonym for experiment
Notice how he didn't say just mere observation?
Instead he has setting up and observing a phenomenon.

For example, if you just had a mere observation of a cat walking past you, that is not an experiment. But no one is suggesting anything like that.

In my understanding/conception of the horizon, that statement is true even though the horizon (where air and sky meet) demonstrably doesn't rise to eye level. The trick is that there is more than one horizon - the "visible/optical" horizon (the meeting of the starkly different sky and surface) and the one that is caused by the workings of the eye (distance limits).
And in reality, there is only 1.
Your eye doesn't magically create a horizon.
There is no justification at all for it to do so.
There is no magical distance limit where it starts blocking out photons that have travelled too far.

Quote
My read is that an FE geometric interpretation would be that your infinite zoom, fixed crosshair vision would ALWAYS have the horizon at eye level, correct?
Depending on your definition(s) for horizon...  If you define the horizon as the visible/optical horizon where the sky meets the surface - then no.  That often/typically shows "drop" from higher elevation above sea level.
For a FE, yes, at least for an infinite one.
A FE has no justification at all for a near horizon.

Sadly I can only clarify the things that scepty has confirmed - like my description of the premise (with the added sea level caveat - because without it we are/were distracting from scepty's point talking about irrelevant "horizon drop", and no longer evaluating it earnestly - which requires benefit of the doubt)
Quite the opposite.
By trying to bring in a sea level caveat you are ignoring the fact that his claim is pure garbage.

To defend his claim you need to move far enough away from sea level such that for the globe you would see nothing but sky.
The other option would be to use sea level and point out that the distinction between exactly level, and where the horizon is on a RE, is indistinguishable for most people and only detectable with sensitive instruments (certainly not the simple tube with crosshairs), and thus his claim that you would see "nothing but sky" is pure fiction.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3662 on: February 27, 2021, 12:05:05 AM »
Depending on your definition(s) for horizon...  If you define the horizon as the visible/optical horizon where the sky meets the surface - then no.  That often/typically shows "drop" from higher elevation above sea level.

However, my interpretation is that this is precisely scepty's claim (as you just described it) and that they may well not be using the aforementioned definition of horizon.

For the love of god, will you just keep it simple and stop muddying the whole discussion up with your constant pedantry and strange assumptions about the "horizontal nexus" excuses, blah, blah, blah, etc. We're all talking about the horizon, this bloody thing:



Nothing more, nothing less. With elevation, it doesn't rise to eye level. It's right there, reality, no fakery, no nothing. Just a straight up image among many that prove the point. It's not rocket science we're dealing with here so don't bludgeon it into such.
You're showing a still image that is deliberately off level.

Here is the gif you originally showed after you tried it the first time.
The moving line.


Stop the line on the horizon and show me it. You can clearly stop it above and below so stop it on the line and let's see the still.

Here it is as it moves above and below as well as on that line as it goes to pass.


Do you think it would be easy for me to set that up and argue the line is level?
Do you think this set up is so easy to dupe with an off centre view simply bby dipping or raising a lens to the string and tube levels?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3663 on: February 27, 2021, 02:37:00 AM »

You're showing a still image that is deliberately off level.
The water in the tube shows that isn't the case.
It shows that it is looking level.

Stop the line on the horizon and show me it. You can clearly stop it above and below so stop it on the line and let's see the still.
You mean this one:

Where we clearly see that the water levels no longer line up, this shows us that we are not looking level. It shows that we are looking down.
So it still shows you are wrong.
It shows the horizon is BELOW eye level.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3664 on: February 27, 2021, 07:24:15 AM »

You're showing a still image that is deliberately off level.
The water in the tube shows that isn't the case.
It shows that it is looking level.

Stop the line on the horizon and show me it. You can clearly stop it above and below so stop it on the line and let's see the still.
You mean this one:

Where we clearly see that the water levels no longer line up, this shows us that we are not looking level. It shows that we are looking down.
So it still shows you are wrong.
It shows the horizon is BELOW eye level.
There has to be a reason why you deliberately try to salvage your globe when you can clearly see it's a non starter. It's finished, Jacky.


Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3665 on: February 27, 2021, 11:41:52 AM »
Do the expeirme t yourself and show us trickery was invovled.
Prove it.

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Stash

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3666 on: February 27, 2021, 12:28:46 PM »

You're showing a still image that is deliberately off level.
The water in the tube shows that isn't the case.
It shows that it is looking level.

Stop the line on the horizon and show me it. You can clearly stop it above and below so stop it on the line and let's see the still.
You mean this one:

Where we clearly see that the water levels no longer line up, this shows us that we are not looking level. It shows that we are looking down.
So it still shows you are wrong.
It shows the horizon is BELOW eye level.
There has to be a reason why you deliberately try to salvage your globe when you can clearly see it's a non starter. It's finished, Jacky.

Is that how you always confront something/someone that shows you are wrong? You just blurt out, "Your salvaging! It's a non-starter! You're finished!" Are you a child? Have you ever been wrong before? I have. Have you ever admitted when you are wrong? I have. That's what adults do.

How about confronting the evidence and actually present a valid argument against? You know, like an adult. And take it that it's not fakery, it's real. It's actually what we see at altitude. The tube water lines are even with each other and even with the cross-string that is even with eye-level. And above the horizon.

The way to argue it is to show the same or similar at altitude showing something contrary, like all are at eye-level. That would be an interesting adult manner of arguing against this evidence. But in the mean time, if your only argument is the stomping of your feet screaming it's fake and/or something oddly bizarre and irrelevant like, "you can clearly see it's a non starter," whatever that is supposed to mean, then I'm afraid you have conceded the point and the horizon, as evidenced, does not always rise to eye-level.

Here's the evidence again. Notice the blue eye-level line:


Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3667 on: February 27, 2021, 01:15:23 PM »
There has to be a reason why you deliberately try to salvage your globe when you can clearly see it's a non starter. It's finished, Jacky.
No attempt at all to try to salvage the globe. There is no need to salvage it. It is still going quite strong.
Just a simple honest analysis of the evidence.
When you look level through the 2 tubes, as clearly shown that the 2 water levels are aligned, you see that the horizon is below level.
In order to dishonestly pretend that the horizon is at eye level, to try to salvage your failed flat Earth model you need to look down.
To get the horizon on the line you need to be looking down as clearly shown by the water at the front appearing lower.

If it really was a non-starter and really did have to be salvaged you would be able to point out problems with what has been presented rather than repeatedly resorting to just ridiculing or insulting it.

Can you point out any problem with the argument and evidence presented? Can you offer evidence to the contrary?

So there has to be a reason why you deliberately try to salvage your complete failure of a FE and complete failure of an argument when any honest person can clearly see it's a non-starter.
And that reason is quite simple, you have an irrational hatred of the RE, and are happy to use whatever dishonest BS you can to try to prop it up.

Again, the evidence clearly shows that the horizon is below eye level.
The evidence clearly shows that you can see the ground through a level tube, depending on the conditions.
Logic clearly shows that the RE has a horizon.
Logic clearly shows that this horizon will be quite close to eye level.
Logic clearly shows that it is only when you have a high altitude that it will be easy to tell using simple instruments (like the water level tubes) that it is below level.
Logic clearly shows that you need a tiny FOV to see only sky.
Logic clearly shows that looking through a tube will let you see things above and below the tube.

So logic and evidence clearly shows you are wrong on multiple counts.

Now grow up and deal with the fact that you are wrong.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3668 on: February 27, 2021, 03:12:27 PM »

No attempt at all to try to salvage the globe. There is no need to salvage it. It is still going quite strong.

Of course it's still going strong in the minds of people like yourself. It's unconditional to you people.
You're very welcome to that mindset.
To me your so called globe, is dead in the level water.

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Stash

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3669 on: February 27, 2021, 04:06:57 PM »

No attempt at all to try to salvage the globe. There is no need to salvage it. It is still going quite strong.

Of course it's still going strong in the minds of people like yourself. It's unconditional to you people.

It's unconditional when staring at unconditional evidence:



You're very welcome to that mindset.
To me your so called globe, is dead in the level water.

Sure, all fine and good. But that's not an argument. That's just how you "feel" about it. How about posting up some evidence that actually refutes this?


Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3670 on: February 27, 2021, 04:10:58 PM »

No attempt at all to try to salvage the globe. There is no need to salvage it. It is still going quite strong.

Of course it's still going strong in the minds of people like yourself. It's unconditional to you people.
You're very welcome to that mindset.
To me your so called globe, is dead in the level water.

Well on one hand we have photgraphic, repeatable evidence.

On the other we have sceppy claiming its false because it doesnt mafch his hypothesis.

So he can either
A provide evidence of a "correct" experiemnt.
B admit he is wrong

Heres a condition for you, sceppy, the dodge ram of dodging all ownership - do your own experiemnt and prove us wrong.
Dont just SAY its wrong.
PROVE it.
Your words are cheap.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3671 on: February 27, 2021, 10:25:00 PM »
Of course it's still going strong in the minds of people like yourself. It's unconditional to you people.
And another blatant lie.
It is quite conditional, conditional upon it being supported by evidence, making sense, explaining reality and observed phenomenon, and not being contradicted by evidence.

And so far it has met those conditions quite well, unlike your DOA FE models.

To me your so called globe, is dead in the level water.
And you not liking it doesn't change reality.

Do you have any justification for that at all, or can you just repeat the same pathetic lies and assertions?

Because so far in this thread it has just been one failure from you after another with you continually running away and doing whatever you can to pretend you haven't failed.
Have you thought of an explanation for why the RE wouldn't have a horizon?
Have you thought of an explanation for why, when close to sea level, that horizon will be basically at eye-level?
Have you thought of an explanation for why, when well above sea level, that horizon (which is the one in reality) is clearly below eye level?
Have you thought of an explanation for why you can't see things above or below a level tube, even though you admit you do as long as it is some object like a tree rather than the ground?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3672 on: February 28, 2021, 04:02:32 AM »

No attempt at all to try to salvage the globe. There is no need to salvage it. It is still going quite strong.

Of course it's still going strong in the minds of people like yourself. It's unconditional to you people.

It's unconditional when staring at unconditional evidence:



You're very welcome to that mindset.
To me your so called globe, is dead in the level water.

Sure, all fine and good. But that's not an argument. That's just how you "feel" about it. How about posting up some evidence that actually refutes this?
You're doing that yourself.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3673 on: February 28, 2021, 04:08:58 AM »

No attempt at all to try to salvage the globe. There is no need to salvage it. It is still going quite strong.

Of course it's still going strong in the minds of people like yourself. It's unconditional to you people.
You're very welcome to that mindset.
To me your so called globe, is dead in the level water.

Well on one hand we have photgraphic, repeatable evidence.
You have photographs but not photographs that prove your globe.


Quote from: Themightykabool
On the other we have sceppy claiming its false because it doesnt mafch his hypothesis.
It doesn't match reality, never mind what my hypothesis is.



Quote from: Themightykabool

So he can either
A provide evidence of a "correct" experiemnt.
B admit he is wrong
I've provided simple evidence. SImple evidence that you people  deny. That's ok for me because what you people say does not come with back up of proof.


Quote from: Themightykabool

Heres a condition for you, sceppy, the dodge ram of dodging all ownership - do your own experiemnt and prove us wrong.
Dont just SAY its wrong.
PROVE it.
Your words are cheap.
I've already proved you people wrong.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3674 on: February 28, 2021, 04:10:58 AM »
Of course it's still going strong in the minds of people like yourself. It's unconditional to you people.
And another blatant lie.
It is quite conditional, conditional upon it being supported by evidence, making sense, explaining reality and observed phenomenon, and not being contradicted by evidence.

It's not supported by evidence. It's supported by strength in numbers of adherence to that storyline.
It's like a mass of children reciting all the workings of the Harry Potter books and films and using them as arguments for the reality.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3675 on: February 28, 2021, 06:07:08 AM »

No attempt at all to try to salvage the globe. There is no need to salvage it. It is still going quite strong.

Of course it's still going strong in the minds of people like yourself. It's unconditional to you people.
You're very welcome to that mindset.
To me your so called globe, is dead in the level water.

Well on one hand we have photgraphic, repeatable evidence.
You have photographs but not photographs that prove your globe.


Quote from: Themightykabool
On the other we have sceppy claiming its false because it doesnt mafch his hypothesis.
It doesn't match reality, never mind what my hypothesis is.



Quote from: Themightykabool

So he can either
A provide evidence of a "correct" experiemnt.
B admit he is wrong
I've provided simple evidence. SImple evidence that you people  deny. That's ok for me because what you people say does not come with back up of proof.


Quote from: Themightykabool

Heres a condition for you, sceppy, the dodge ram of dodging all ownership - do your own experiemnt and prove us wrong.
Dont just SAY its wrong.
PROVE it.
Your words are cheap.
I've already proved you people wrong.

Incorrect
You waved away all cgi space photogrpahs - all roads lead to conspiracy.


Your "proofs" are nothing more than you refusal to do the expeirment yourself tl show us where we went wrong = a lot of effort by everyone except sceppyy.

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Stash

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3676 on: February 28, 2021, 11:08:26 AM »

No attempt at all to try to salvage the globe. There is no need to salvage it. It is still going quite strong.

Of course it's still going strong in the minds of people like yourself. It's unconditional to you people.

It's unconditional when staring at unconditional evidence:



You're very welcome to that mindset.
To me your so called globe, is dead in the level water.

Sure, all fine and good. But that's not an argument. That's just how you "feel" about it. How about posting up some evidence that actually refutes this?
You're doing that yourself.

Actually no. The image is referred to as "evidence" that is in direct contradiction to your "Opinion". The evidence is not an opinion.

How about posting some actual evidence to support your claim instead of just your feelings on the matter.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3677 on: February 28, 2021, 12:07:32 PM »
Sure, all fine and good. But that's not an argument. That's just how you "feel" about it. How about posting up some evidence that actually refutes this?
You're doing that yourself.
No, he is putting up evidence which refutes your fantasy.
You are just dodging however you can.

We can see that when looking level (from the top of the water in the 2 tubes lining up) the horizon is below eye level. It is only when looking down that the horizon lines up with the line in the image.

I've provided simple evidence.
Where?
So far all you have provided are demonstrable false claims. You have refused to provide any evidence, likely because you can't then go and claim your own evidence is fake when it refutes you.

I've already proved you people wrong.
Where?
Repeatedly asserting the same refuted lie isn't proving anyone wrong.

You haven't proven anyone wrong. All you have done is repeat the same pathetic refuted lies, dismissed any evidence that shows you are wrong as fake, and done whatever you can to avoid logical arguments that show you are wrong.
You haven't even attempted to prove anyone wrong.

Of course it's still going strong in the minds of people like yourself. It's unconditional to you people.
And another blatant lie.
It is quite conditional, conditional upon it being supported by evidence, making sense, explaining reality and observed phenomenon, and not being contradicted by evidence.
It's not supported by evidence.
You ignoring the evidence doesn't magically mean it doesn't exist.
You have been provided with some of the evidence in this thread, and have no counter to it.
All you do is dodge or dismiss it as fake.

So yes, it is supported by evidence, regardless of how much you hate that because of blind, irrational hatred of the RE.

Now again, care to justify your repeated blatant lies, or admit they are wrong?
Are you going to explain why the RE shouldn't have a horizon?
Why it shouldn't appear at roughly eye-level for an observer near sea level?
Or how a tube magically gives you tunnel vision so you can't see things above or below the tube even though you admit you can but pretend it is just magic compression where the object is compressed while remaining the same size?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3678 on: February 28, 2021, 12:35:14 PM »
Is this what the residents of a mental institution argue about? Whether the world outside the grey concrete walls is flat or forms a sphere?

I can't believe I have to say this, but eagle eye pain in the backside, sceptimatic, makes one valid argument with the green liquid tubes photo. How can anyone know the levels in each tube are level with each other, before comparing against the horizon line? Where's the proof they are level with each other? It's a valid point. Would have been better off using a flat table top, levelled on all sides using levels.

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Stash

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3679 on: February 28, 2021, 12:50:36 PM »
Is this what the residents of a mental institution argue about? Whether the world outside the grey concrete walls is flat or forms a sphere?

I can't believe I have to say this, but eagle eye pain in the backside, sceptimatic, makes one valid argument with the green liquid tubes photo. How can anyone know the levels in each tube are level with each other, before comparing against the horizon line? Where's the proof they are level with each other? It's a valid point. Would have been better off using a flat table top, levelled on all sides using levels.

The tubes are connected to one another by the horizontal tube on the bottom creating a "U" filled with liquid - It's all the same volume of liquid. One is in front (closest to you) and one is in the back even with the cross string in the back. All are level with each other. So no, it's not a valid argument.


Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3680 on: February 28, 2021, 02:12:28 PM »
Is this what the residents of a mental institution argue about? Whether the world outside the grey concrete walls is flat or forms a sphere?

I can't believe I have to say this, but eagle eye pain in the backside, sceptimatic, makes one valid argument with the green liquid tubes photo. How can anyone know the levels in each tube are level with each other, before comparing against the horizon line? Where's the proof they are level with each other? It's a valid point. Would have been better off using a flat table top, levelled on all sides using levels.
With the later you can just argue that the levels are off.
It also hides the horizon.

The tubes are connected to one another so water can flow freely between them.
It relies upon water always finding its level, and relies upon extreme paranoia to reject it.

Ultimately, which such extreme paranoia, you will reject any evidence that shows you are wrong.
If you could see the entire water filled tube, you will instead appeal to something skewing the level, such as using fluids of different density, or having the cap closed so it is under higher pressure, or a hidden wall to prevent them finding their level, or some excuse.
If you use spirit levels you can dismiss it as the spirit level is broken show it shows a false reading.
And so on.

Eventually you either reach a point where you accept the evidence is provided, or you think everyone is involved in a massive conspiracy to hide the truth from you so the only evidence you will ever accept is that obtained yourself at which point asking for evidence is an entirely useless and dishonest exercise.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3681 on: February 28, 2021, 04:55:56 PM »
Is this what the residents of a mental institution argue about? Whether the world outside the grey concrete walls is flat or forms a sphere?

I can't believe I have to say this, but eagle eye pain in the backside, sceptimatic, makes one valid argument with the green liquid tubes photo. How can anyone know the levels in each tube are level with each other, before comparing against the horizon line? Where's the proof they are level with each other? It's a valid point. Would have been better off using a flat table top, levelled on all sides using levels.

He will know its level when he performs it himself and debunks the experiment as false ... just like every other peer reviewed anything.

If its not repeatable, its not a thing

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3682 on: February 28, 2021, 05:56:22 PM »
Is this what the residents of a mental institution argue about? Whether the world outside the grey concrete walls is flat or forms a sphere?

I can't believe I have to say this, but eagle eye pain in the backside, sceptimatic, makes one valid argument with the green liquid tubes photo. How can anyone know the levels in each tube are level with each other, before comparing against the horizon line? Where's the proof they are level with each other? It's a valid point. Would have been better off using a flat table top, levelled on all sides using levels.

The tubes are connected to one another by the horizontal tube on the bottom creating a "U" filled with liquid - It's all the same volume of liquid. One is in front (closest to you) and one is in the back even with the cross string in the back. All are level with each other. So no, it's not a valid argument.



Good. Sceptimatic, you're wrong as per usual. Your argument is null and void. The earth is a sphere, no matter what pitiful argument you try to throw out against it.

If you dont face your pain that led you on this insane odyssey, your paranoia and insanity is only going to grow worse.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3683 on: March 01, 2021, 01:44:30 AM »


Incorrect
You waved away all cgi space photogrpahs - all roads lead to conspiracy.


Your "proofs" are nothing more than you refusal to do the expeirment yourself tl show us where we went wrong = a lot of effort by everyone except sceppyy.
Effort?
You don't know the meaning of effort. All you do is try to ridicule.
Remember one thing. It's you and your little like minded gang that taker it in turns to have a dig at me inbetween showing a few explanations from your side.
I'm one person having to answer to everyone of you. I'd say I'm putting plenty of effort in.
What I'm not doing is pacifying you people with answers that you want from your side rather than answers from my side.


Carry on doing it but expect scant reply.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3684 on: March 01, 2021, 01:45:32 AM »

No attempt at all to try to salvage the globe. There is no need to salvage it. It is still going quite strong.

Of course it's still going strong in the minds of people like yourself. It's unconditional to you people.

It's unconditional when staring at unconditional evidence:



You're very welcome to that mindset.
To me your so called globe, is dead in the level water.

Sure, all fine and good. But that's not an argument. That's just how you "feel" about it. How about posting up some evidence that actually refutes this?
You're doing that yourself.

Actually no. The image is referred to as "evidence" that is in direct contradiction to your "Opinion". The evidence is not an opinion.

How about posting some actual evidence to support your claim instead of just your feelings on the matter.
That picture is a silly con job and anyone with a small amount of unbiased logic can see that.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3685 on: March 01, 2021, 02:07:23 AM »


Good. Sceptimatic, you're wrong as per usual. Your argument is null and void. The earth is a sphere, no matter what pitiful argument you try to throw out against it.

If you dont face your pain that led you on this insane odyssey, your paranoia and insanity is only going to grow worse.
I'm not wrong on this. It's a clear dupe.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3686 on: March 01, 2021, 02:20:12 AM »
Remember one thing. It's you and your little like minded gang that taker it in turns to have a dig at me inbetween showing a few explanations from your side.
Projecting again I see.
We have provided you with plenty of explanations why you are wrong, and in response all you have done is dodged and dismiss evidence provided as fake.

That picture is a silly con job
I know you so desperately need to pretend it is a con job, but you are yet to provide any justification for why ANYONE should accept it is.

All the available evidence and logical thought shows you are wrong.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3687 on: March 01, 2021, 03:14:41 AM »

I know you so desperately need to pretend it is a con job, but you are yet to provide any justification for why ANYONE should accept it is.

I don't need to pretend. It is in your face and anyone with any unbiased logic will see that.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3688 on: March 01, 2021, 03:31:22 AM »


Incorrect
You waved away all cgi space photogrpahs - all roads lead to conspiracy.


Your "proofs" are nothing more than you refusal to do the expeirment yourself tl show us where we went wrong = a lot of effort by everyone except sceppyy.
Effort?
You don't know the meaning of effort. All you do is try to ridicule.
Remember one thing. It's you and your little like minded gang that taker it in turns to have a dig at me inbetween showing a few explanations from your side.
I'm one person having to answer to everyone of you. I'd say I'm putting plenty of effort in.
What I'm not doing is pacifying you people with answers that you want from your side rather than answers from my side.


Carry on doing it but expect scant reply.

Go ahead and answer from your side showing horizon rises to eye level then

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3689 on: March 01, 2021, 03:32:17 AM »

No attempt at all to try to salvage the globe. There is no need to salvage it. It is still going quite strong.

Of course it's still going strong in the minds of people like yourself. It's unconditional to you people.

It's unconditional when staring at unconditional evidence:



You're very welcome to that mindset.
To me your so called globe, is dead in the level water.

Sure, all fine and good. But that's not an argument. That's just how you "feel" about it. How about posting up some evidence that actually refutes this?
You're doing that yourself.

Actually no. The image is referred to as "evidence" that is in direct contradiction to your "Opinion". The evidence is not an opinion.

How about posting some actual evidence to support your claim instead of just your feelings on the matter.
That picture is a silly con job and anyone with a small amount of unbiased logic can see that.

Feel free to reproduce and debunk it