What would change your mind?

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3360 on: January 28, 2021, 10:47:34 PM »
Troll on.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3361 on: January 28, 2021, 10:51:57 PM »

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3362 on: January 28, 2021, 11:49:29 PM »
But you havent proved what you know.
I have to myself and that's what counts.
On a public forum, proving things to yourself is worthless. Proving them to others is what matters.

I'm more than happy to engage you
Not in any form of honest rational discussion.
All you want to do is play games.

You wont even answer simple questions like what magic stops the blue line?


Even after being shown to be wrong repeatedly, you will still claim you are correct.
You have never once shown me I'm wrong.
You ignoring reality doesn't change it.
If I hadn't shown you were wrong you would have answered the question already. You won't because you know it has shown that you are wrong, and there is no way out for you.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3363 on: January 29, 2021, 12:23:33 AM »
Quote from: JackBlack
If I hadn't shown you were wrong you would have answered the question already.
 You won't because you know it has shown that you are wrong, and there is no way out for you.
You haven't shown any question to be valid.
You simply asked me what stops a blue line.
I asked you to tell me what you were viewing through and how you were viewing.

You failed to answer it.

As for no way out. You put far too much emphasis on yourself mattering to me.
All you are is a copy and paste frenzy machine.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3364 on: January 29, 2021, 12:57:26 AM »
Quote from: JackBlack
If I hadn't shown you were wrong you would have answered the question already.
 You won't because you know it has shown that you are wrong, and there is no way out for you.
You haven't shown any question to be valid.
You simply asked me what stops a blue line.
I asked you to tell me what you were viewing through and how you were viewing.
And I explained it all, repeatedly. But because you can't answer without showing yourself to be wrong, you use whatever dishonest BS you can to refuse to answer. (And here you can again see the difference between how an honest person handles it compared to how you just repeat the same pathetic lies. Notice how that because I actually have an answer, and an argument that shows you are wrong, I can provide it yet again, whereas you just repeat the same lies or use other dishonest BS to avoid answering extremely simple questions).

Again, the diagram is incredibly simple. Even a complete moron can understand it. So why do you continue to pretend you can't?
Here it is again, see if you can figure it out this time:

This is a side on, cross sectional view.
On the left, there is an eye, to represent the eye of the person looking through the tube. The tube is the purple box.
The left and right side of the tube are entirely open. They are the ends of the tube, i.e. the holes.
The top and bottom of the rectangle would be solid, the walls of the tube.
I even have a purple line extended out level with the bottom of the tube.

We can clearly see the eye is at the middle of the tube, and the tube is level.
So this is clearly the exact situation you started going down this rabbit hole with.

The solid coloured lines indicate different potential paths for light to travel along.
We can see the green, travelling level, just goes straight in to the eye. This means light travelling along it will travel along just fine and reach the eye, allowing you to see an object in that direction.
We see the orange travels up and enters the box from the bottom. This would indicate it hits the wall of the tube. Assuming the wall of the tube is opaque, this means the wall of the tube will block the light and stop it reaching the eye. This means you cannot see an object through this particular level tube in the direction of the orange line.
But they are not the only options.

There is also the blue line. This line passes through the end of the tube. It does not hit the wall of the tube and thus there is no reason for light travelling along it to be stopped. It will travel, just like the green line, entering the end of the tube and reaching the eye. This means through this tube, you can see light coming in from the direction of the blue line.
Note this is not moving the eye up to the top of the tube and looking down. This is the eye remaining at the centre of the tube, looking through it. It is simply due to the fact that there is a FOV, that they eye doesn't just magically see in 1D along a line, it has a FOV. This allows this eye to see a small amount in all directions around straight out level. This includes up and down.
The blue line is just one of many such lines.
The limits are the 2 red lines.
This shows were a beam of light would just miss the wall of the tube and instead enter through the end. Light from anywhere in the region bounded by the 2 red lines would be able to travel into the tube and reach the eye.

Importantly note that this includes regions below the level of the tube.
There can be an object below the tube (such as the ground) which has light scatter off it (or projects its own light) which travels along the blue line and hits the eye.
This means the eye can see that object.
That means you can see the ground when looking through a level tube, even with that ground below the tube (as long as it is in the FOV).


Now stop playing dumb and either accept you are wrong or explain what magic stops the light travelling along the blue eye from reaching the eye.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3365 on: January 29, 2021, 01:55:32 AM »


Again, the diagram is incredibly simple. Even a complete moron can understand it. So why do you continue to pretend you can't?
Here it is again, see if you can figure it out this time:



We can clearly see the eye is at the middle of the tube, and the tube is level.
So this is clearly the exact situation you started going down this rabbit hole with.

Now stop playing dumb and either accept you are wrong or explain what magic stops the light travelling along the blue eye from reaching the eye.
How about you simply tell me if you are using the naked eye FOV or the scope curve FOV or the actual simple tube that I set out for you.
A simple enough question to answer....right?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3366 on: January 29, 2021, 02:15:12 AM »


Again, the diagram is incredibly simple. Even a complete moron can understand it. So why do you continue to pretend you can't?
Here it is again, see if you can figure it out this time:



We can clearly see the eye is at the middle of the tube, and the tube is level.
So this is clearly the exact situation you started going down this rabbit hole with.

Now stop playing dumb and either accept you are wrong or explain what magic stops the light travelling along the blue eye from reaching the eye.
How about you simply tell me if you are using the naked eye FOV or the scope curve FOV or the actual simple tube that I set out for you.
A simple enough question to answer....right?
Yes, an extremely simple one.
Does this help:
Again, the diagram is incredibly simple. Even a complete moron can understand it. So why do you continue to pretend you can't?
Here it is again, see if you can figure it out this time:

This is a side on, cross sectional view.
On the left, there is an eye, to represent the eye of the person looking through the tube. The tube is the purple box.
The left and right side of the tube are entirely open. They are the ends of the tube, i.e. the holes.
The top and bottom of the rectangle would be solid, the walls of the tube.
I even have a purple line extended out level with the bottom of the tube.

We can clearly see the eye is at the middle of the tube, and the tube is level.
So this is clearly the exact situation you started going down this rabbit hole with.

The solid coloured lines indicate different potential paths for light to travel along.
We can see the green, travelling level, just goes straight in to the eye. This means light travelling along it will travel along just fine and reach the eye, allowing you to see an object in that direction.
We see the orange travels up and enters the box from the bottom. This would indicate it hits the wall of the tube. Assuming the wall of the tube is opaque, this means the wall of the tube will block the light and stop it reaching the eye. This means you cannot see an object through this particular level tube in the direction of the orange line.
But they are not the only options.

There is also the blue line. This line passes through the end of the tube. It does not hit the wall of the tube and thus there is no reason for light travelling along it to be stopped. It will travel, just like the green line, entering the end of the tube and reaching the eye. This means through this tube, you can see light coming in from the direction of the blue line.
Note this is not moving the eye up to the top of the tube and looking down. This is the eye remaining at the centre of the tube, looking through it. It is simply due to the fact that there is a FOV, that they eye doesn't just magically see in 1D along a line, it has a FOV. This allows this eye to see a small amount in all directions around straight out level. This includes up and down.
The blue line is just one of many such lines.
The limits are the 2 red lines.
This shows were a beam of light would just miss the wall of the tube and instead enter through the end. Light from anywhere in the region bounded by the 2 red lines would be able to travel into the tube and reach the eye.

Importantly note that this includes regions below the level of the tube.
There can be an object below the tube (such as the ground) which has light scatter off it (or projects its own light) which travels along the blue line and hits the eye.
This means the eye can see that object.
That means you can see the ground when looking through a level tube, even with that ground below the tube (as long as it is in the FOV).
And would you look at that. It was already answered in the very post you quoted. But of course, you need something to pretend to attack so you just dishonestly remove it from the quote and then pretend I never made it clear.

It has been made abundantly clear that we are talking about the view through a simple tube. A tube, without any lens, which you are using your eye (or a camera) to look through.

Now stop playing dumb and either accept you are wrong or explain what magic stops the light travelling along the blue eye from reaching the eye.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3367 on: January 29, 2021, 03:18:41 AM »
For genuine people out there they see you dodging and avoiding while jackB and Jja have provided diagrams and photos.
Whos being disingeuous?
Whos hiding from expsoing the big con?
Whos unwilling to stand up (and to point you seem willing enough to talk endlessly!)?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3368 on: January 29, 2021, 06:44:46 AM »


Again, the diagram is incredibly simple. Even a complete moron can understand it. So why do you continue to pretend you can't?
Here it is again, see if you can figure it out this time:



We can clearly see the eye is at the middle of the tube, and the tube is level.
So this is clearly the exact situation you started going down this rabbit hole with.

Now stop playing dumb and either accept you are wrong or explain what magic stops the light travelling along the blue eye from reaching the eye.
How about you simply tell me if you are using the naked eye FOV or the scope curve FOV or the actual simple tube that I set out for you.
A simple enough question to answer....right?
Yes, an extremely simple one.
Does this help:
Again, the diagram is incredibly simple. Even a complete moron can understand it. So why do you continue to pretend you can't?
Here it is again, see if you can figure it out this time:

This is a side on, cross sectional view.
On the left, there is an eye, to represent the eye of the person looking through the tube. The tube is the purple box.
The left and right side of the tube are entirely open. They are the ends of the tube, i.e. the holes.
The top and bottom of the rectangle would be solid, the walls of the tube.
I even have a purple line extended out level with the bottom of the tube.

We can clearly see the eye is at the middle of the tube, and the tube is level.
So this is clearly the exact situation you started going down this rabbit hole with.

The solid coloured lines indicate different potential paths for light to travel along.
We can see the green, travelling level, just goes straight in to the eye. This means light travelling along it will travel along just fine and reach the eye, allowing you to see an object in that direction.
We see the orange travels up and enters the box from the bottom. This would indicate it hits the wall of the tube. Assuming the wall of the tube is opaque, this means the wall of the tube will block the light and stop it reaching the eye. This means you cannot see an object through this particular level tube in the direction of the orange line.
But they are not the only options.

There is also the blue line. This line passes through the end of the tube. It does not hit the wall of the tube and thus there is no reason for light travelling along it to be stopped. It will travel, just like the green line, entering the end of the tube and reaching the eye. This means through this tube, you can see light coming in from the direction of the blue line.
Note this is not moving the eye up to the top of the tube and looking down. This is the eye remaining at the centre of the tube, looking through it. It is simply due to the fact that there is a FOV, that they eye doesn't just magically see in 1D along a line, it has a FOV. This allows this eye to see a small amount in all directions around straight out level. This includes up and down.
The blue line is just one of many such lines.
The limits are the 2 red lines.
This shows were a beam of light would just miss the wall of the tube and instead enter through the end. Light from anywhere in the region bounded by the 2 red lines would be able to travel into the tube and reach the eye.

Importantly note that this includes regions below the level of the tube.
There can be an object below the tube (such as the ground) which has light scatter off it (or projects its own light) which travels along the blue line and hits the eye.
This means the eye can see that object.
That means you can see the ground when looking through a level tube, even with that ground below the tube (as long as it is in the FOV).
And would you look at that. It was already answered in the very post you quoted. But of course, you need something to pretend to attack so you just dishonestly remove it from the quote and then pretend I never made it clear.

It has been made abundantly clear that we are talking about the view through a simple tube. A tube, without any lens, which you are using your eye (or a camera) to look through.

Now stop playing dumb and either accept you are wrong or explain what magic stops the light travelling along the blue eye from reaching the eye.
As soon as you limit what you put in your post, I'll respond.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3369 on: January 29, 2021, 06:45:42 AM »
For genuine people out there they see you dodging and avoiding while jackB and Jja have provided diagrams and photos.
Whos being disingeuous?
Whos hiding from expsoing the big con?
Whos unwilling to stand up (and to point you seem willing enough to talk endlessly!)?
Do you actually have anything to say?

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3370 on: January 29, 2021, 06:47:11 AM »
Getting up off a backside to play games and produce something which does not match reality, is not a real experiment, no matter how much you want to crow about it.

Claiming everyone else who actually performs experiments is wrong... without getting off your backside to prove it with experiments of your own is, what?  Nothing to crow about.  You say a lot, and repeat it constantly, but haven't shown any of it to be true.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3371 on: January 29, 2021, 08:42:22 AM »
Getting up off a backside to play games and produce something which does not match reality, is not a real experiment, no matter how much you want to crow about it.

Claiming everyone else who actually performs experiments is wrong... without getting off your backside to prove it with experiments of your own is, what?  Nothing to crow about.  You say a lot, and repeat it constantly, but haven't shown any of it to be true.
That's down to you people to prove stuff to yourselves.
Whether you do it and feel silly for admitting it on a forum, I'm not sure.

Any honest person can see what I'm getting at if they follow the instruction genuinely.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3372 on: January 29, 2021, 09:21:39 AM »
Getting up off a backside to play games and produce something which does not match reality, is not a real experiment, no matter how much you want to crow about it.

Claiming everyone else who actually performs experiments is wrong... without getting off your backside to prove it with experiments of your own is, what?  Nothing to crow about.  You say a lot, and repeat it constantly, but haven't shown any of it to be true.
That's down to you people to prove stuff to yourselves.
Whether you do it and feel silly for admitting it on a forum, I'm not sure.

Any honest person can see what I'm getting at if they follow the instruction genuinely.

You are right, it's up to us to prove things. And I proved you wrong with my experiments and photographs of it.  Anyone can do your experiment and show you wrong, yes.  You seem to be the only one not doing it... I wonder why. All you can do is say people are cheating, lying, being dishonest. Follow your own instructions, or explain why you can't.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3373 on: January 29, 2021, 12:09:46 PM »
By pure deduction
Sceppy is the only one who holds his particular beliefs while the rest are indoctrined or liars.
So the only honest person is sceppy.
So the only person able to perform his experiemt is himself.
And since he misuses english all the tine, he is also the only person able to show by what he says here and also to point out to us, what hes attempting to explain.

So - lets have it then

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3374 on: January 29, 2021, 12:50:35 PM »
As soon as you limit what you put in your post, I'll respond.
So you can then pretend I haven't answered something already covered in the post, like last time?
This is your one chance at that. No playing dumb, no asking stupid questions which have already been answered, no bringing up objections which have already been refuted.
Directly address the issue or you throw away this chance.

Again, I have made it clear that we are discussing a simple tube, with your eye at one end of the tube, in the middle, with the tube level.

Now again, either admit you are wrong or explain what magic stops the blue line.

Any honest person can see what I'm getting at if they follow the instruction genuinely.
Any honest person can see that you are blatantly lying.
By doing the experiment themselves which shows you are completely wrong, by analysing your claims and seeing that they contradict each other, and by simple logic and how you repeatedly avoid simple questions.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3375 on: January 29, 2021, 05:54:28 PM »
Getting up off a backside to play games and produce something which does not match reality, is not a real experiment, no matter how much you want to crow about it.

Claiming everyone else who actually performs experiments is wrong... without getting off your backside to prove it with experiments of your own is, what?  Nothing to crow about.  You say a lot, and repeat it constantly, but haven't shown any of it to be true.
That's down to you people to prove stuff to yourselves.
Whether you do it and feel silly for admitting it on a forum, I'm not sure.

Any honest person can see what I'm getting at if they follow the instruction genuinely.

Sceptimatic, will you accept the results of any experiments regarding the horizon out at sea, using a surveyors instrument called a theodolite?

Not a bought one, but a homemade theodolite. What do you reckon?

Water always finds it's level! Right? Right?  ;)

« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 07:50:45 PM by Smoke Machine »

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3376 on: January 30, 2021, 02:31:39 AM »
Getting up off a backside to play games and produce something which does not match reality, is not a real experiment, no matter how much you want to crow about it.

Claiming everyone else who actually performs experiments is wrong... without getting off your backside to prove it with experiments of your own is, what?  Nothing to crow about.  You say a lot, and repeat it constantly, but haven't shown any of it to be true.
That's down to you people to prove stuff to yourselves.
Whether you do it and feel silly for admitting it on a forum, I'm not sure.

Any honest person can see what I'm getting at if they follow the instruction genuinely.

Sceptimatic, will you accept the results of any experiments regarding the horizon out at sea, using a surveyors instrument called a theodolite?

Not a bought one, but a homemade theodolite. What do you reckon?

Water always finds it's level! Right? Right?  ;)
If you're willing to do the experiments then be willing to follow instructions if I pick at them and ask you to tweak them....all in fairness.

JJA could easily tweak his but backed out.
Are you willing to go the extra mile?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3377 on: January 30, 2021, 04:05:19 AM »
Extra mile?
You didt even sign up for the race.
Garbage.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3378 on: January 30, 2021, 04:07:58 AM »
JJA could easily tweak his but backed out.
Are you willing to go the extra mile?

Are you willing to go the first mile and actually perform your own experiment and show us exactly how you think it should be done? Prove us all wrong. Why are you so afraid to try?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3379 on: January 30, 2021, 05:11:55 AM »
If you want to make this experiment in any way scientific then a consensus needs to be reached on how it is done and what equipment is used. That way everyone would do the experiment using the same equipment and using the same method. You could then even draw a scale diagram with figures and angles which allows you to predict what the result will be.  For example, referencing JBs diagram you would be able to predict how far ahead the intersection point would be between the blue line and the ground. Scepti seems to be claiming that you cannot see the ground when looking through the tube (no intersection between the ground and the blue line) but JBs diagram predicts you clearly can.  One is right, one is wrong. Both cannot be right.

The angle the blue line makes with the horizonal is defined by both the length and the diameter of the tube.  For the ground not to be visible then the ground would need to slope away at the same angle as the blue line. Otherwise the ground is definitely going to come into view at some distance ahead of the line of sight of where the tube it.  That distance will depend on the height of the tube off the ground. Assuming the ground is level and parallel with the tube.

As a for instance you could use a piece of A4 card or paper to make the tube. That would mean everyone was using the same size tube.  It could be rolled up along the long edge for instance to make a particular diameter and then placed on a levelled tripod so it was say 2m off the ground.  Photographic tripods are easily adjustable so this would be no great problem to achieve.

So we have a tube of x mm length and y mm diameter which is placed on the tripod head platform with the lower side (bottom of tube) z mm off the ground.  You can use a spirit level to make sure the tripod head is level.  The tube is therefore placed where the camera normally would be.

You can now draw a scaled diagram which illustrates this setup and you can use simple geometry to calculate how far ahead of where the tripod is the ground should start to appear.  That can then be confirmed by actual measurement. 

The experiment could then be repeated by using another piece of white card rolled around the short edge and after that by doubling the diameter.  Each time you can calculate and then measure how each change in the set up affects the distance to the point where the ground starts to appear.  It will be the same for everyone so that removes any potential for 'duping'.  If you don't believe what one person says then you can do it yourself to verify it personally.

We can then compare Sceptimatics hypothesis against ours.  In short no single person (Sceptimatic included) dictates how the experiment should be carried out or the equipment that is used.  If one person is dictating the equipment used and/or the method used then they are also controlling the potential result and that cannot be allowed. Instead we all reach a common agreement and it is therefore a fair test.  Pretty much everyone has access to a photographic tripod (or two) and everyone has access to A4 white card or paper.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 06:57:03 AM by Solarwind »

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3380 on: January 30, 2021, 12:32:58 PM »
If you're willing to do the experiments then be willing to follow instructions if I pick at them and ask you to tweak them....all in fairness.

JJA could easily tweak his but backed out.
He "backed out" because you provided no justification for why you thought his first result was false and instead dismissed it just because it showed you were wrong.
And more importantly, all your needless complications did was make the experiment harder to carry out and reduce the FOV.
Your additions in no way help to establish that the tube is level, and further removes it from your claim.
And you had repeatedly refused to provide a list of requirements where you would then simply accept the results. You made it clear you always want a way out to dismiss the results.

You have shown that you are not willing to accept any evidence provided by anyone if it shows you are wrong.
If it shows you are wrong you will simply dismiss it as fake with no justification, and when pressed make up excuses and throw in needless complexities.

So why bother doing a more complex setup which he didn't even have everything for, just for you to dismiss it again?

But a similar claim of yours can be made against you.

You claimed were happy to discuss things, but then when you had no answer, you fled.

Even now you do that.
You were provided with a simple diagram which proves you are wrong. You were asked a simple question to show that. But rather than respond honestly and rationally by admitting you are wrong or answering the question/refuting the argument, you use whatever dishonest BS you can to avoid it.
Even repeatedly playing dumb and asking questions where the answer is already abundantly clear, even by simply reading the post you asked the question for.
And that just further shows how pathetic your position is.


Again, deal with the issues presented.
Either accept that you are wrong or explain what magic stops the light travelling along the blue line from reaching the eye.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 12:44:29 PM by JackBlack »

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3381 on: January 30, 2021, 03:07:02 PM »
Extra mile?
You didt even sign up for the race.
Garbage.
You're still waiting for the starter pistol to fire whilst the race is already underway.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3382 on: January 30, 2021, 03:10:57 PM »
If you want to make this experiment in any way scientific then a consensus needs to be reached on how it is done and what equipment is used. That way everyone would do the experiment using the same equipment and using the same method. You could then even draw a scale diagram with figures and angles which allows you to predict what the result will be.  For example, referencing JBs diagram you would be able to predict how far ahead the intersection point would be between the blue line and the ground. Scepti seems to be claiming that you cannot see the ground when looking through the tube (no intersection between the ground and the blue line) but JBs diagram predicts you clearly can.  One is right, one is wrong. Both cannot be right.

The angle the blue line makes with the horizonal is defined by both the length and the diameter of the tube.  For the ground not to be visible then the ground would need to slope away at the same angle as the blue line. Otherwise the ground is definitely going to come into view at some distance ahead of the line of sight of where the tube it.  That distance will depend on the height of the tube off the ground. Assuming the ground is level and parallel with the tube.

As a for instance you could use a piece of A4 card or paper to make the tube. That would mean everyone was using the same size tube.  It could be rolled up along the long edge for instance to make a particular diameter and then placed on a levelled tripod so it was say 2m off the ground.  Photographic tripods are easily adjustable so this would be no great problem to achieve.

So we have a tube of x mm length and y mm diameter which is placed on the tripod head platform with the lower side (bottom of tube) z mm off the ground.  You can use a spirit level to make sure the tripod head is level.  The tube is therefore placed where the camera normally would be.

You can now draw a scaled diagram which illustrates this setup and you can use simple geometry to calculate how far ahead of where the tripod is the ground should start to appear.  That can then be confirmed by actual measurement. 

The experiment could then be repeated by using another piece of white card rolled around the short edge and after that by doubling the diameter.  Each time you can calculate and then measure how each change in the set up affects the distance to the point where the ground starts to appear.  It will be the same for everyone so that removes any potential for 'duping'.  If you don't believe what one person says then you can do it yourself to verify it personally.

We can then compare Sceptimatics hypothesis against ours.  In short no single person (Sceptimatic included) dictates how the experiment should be carried out or the equipment that is used.  If one person is dictating the equipment used and/or the method used then they are also controlling the potential result and that cannot be allowed. Instead we all reach a common agreement and it is therefore a fair test.  Pretty much everyone has access to a photographic tripod (or two) and everyone has access to A4 white card or paper.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3383 on: January 30, 2021, 03:12:49 PM »
If you're willing to do the experiments then be willing to follow instructions if I pick at them and ask you to tweak them....all in fairness.

JJA could easily tweak his but backed out.
He "backed out" because you provided no justification for why you thought his first result was false and instead
He backed out because I backed him into a corner and he wasn't expecting it.

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JJA

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  • Math is math!
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3384 on: January 30, 2021, 03:24:14 PM »
If you're willing to do the experiments then be willing to follow instructions if I pick at them and ask you to tweak them....all in fairness.

JJA could easily tweak his but backed out.
He "backed out" because you provided no justification for why you thought his first result was false and instead
He backed out because I backed him into a corner and he wasn't expecting it.

Actually, I'm the only one between the two of us who stepped up to the challenge. You still haven't even performed your own experiment. So when are you going to show your photos? You certainly wouldn't be claiming everyone elses experiment is wrong if you haven't performed and documented it yourself first, would you?

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3385 on: January 30, 2021, 03:41:07 PM »
You're still waiting for the starter pistol to fire whilst the race is already underway.
No, we are waiting at the finish line while you haven't even started.

He backed out because I backed him into a corner and he wasn't expecting it.
The only one backed into a corner is you.
And now that you are backed into the corner you are thrashing about, using whatever dishonest BS you can to avoid admitting you are wrong.

He provided experiment showing you are wrong.
You had no rebuttal so instead just thrashed out, dismissing it as fake and throwing in a bunch of needless BS.
You have failed to justify how this needless BS will change anything and as such it just shows that you are making excuses.

As you have already dismissed his evidence as fake,  why would he waste time getting more resources to show you are wrong yet again just for you to dismiss it as fake again?

And this attitude and complete failure of a position of yours is also shown by you repeatedly using whatever dishonest BS you can to avoid answering simple questions, and you not even providing your own evidence to counter his.

You have literally nothing except your outright lies.
You have no logic backing you up. You have no experimental evidence backing you up. All you have are your repeated lies and insults.

Again, WHAT MAGIC STOPS THE BLUE LINE?
This is an extremely simple question which you refuse to answer because you know as soon as you do you will have shown yourself to be wrong.

Now grow up, stop with the pathetic dishonest BS, stop playing dumb and either admit you are wrong or explain what magic stop the blue line.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3386 on: January 30, 2021, 04:58:53 PM »
Getting up off a backside to play games and produce something which does not match reality, is not a real experiment, no matter how much you want to crow about it.

Claiming everyone else who actually performs experiments is wrong... without getting off your backside to prove it with experiments of your own is, what?  Nothing to crow about.  You say a lot, and repeat it constantly, but haven't shown any of it to be true.
That's down to you people to prove stuff to yourselves.
Whether you do it and feel silly for admitting it on a forum, I'm not sure.

Any honest person can see what I'm getting at if they follow the instruction genuinely.

Sceptimatic, will you accept the results of any experiments regarding the horizon out at sea, using a surveyors instrument called a theodolite?

Not a bought one, but a homemade theodolite. What do you reckon?

Water always finds it's level! Right? Right?  ;)
If you're willing to do the experiments then be willing to follow instructions if I pick at them and ask you to tweak them....all in fairness.

JJA could easily tweak his but backed out.
Are you willing to go the extra mile?

Yes, that's totally fine. But I need to know beforehand, we are on the same page regarding perspective, the horizon, and the principles behind how a theodolite works.

Otherwise, I'd just be wasting my time and your time.

Shall we go over perspective principles first?

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28092
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3387 on: January 31, 2021, 01:49:26 AM »


Yes, that's totally fine. But I need to know beforehand, we are on the same page regarding perspective, the horizon, and the principles behind how a theodolite works.

Otherwise, I'd just be wasting my time and your time.

Shall we go over perspective principles first?
If you feel you need to cover a few things before you start, to clarify, then do so.
Remember, I see what I see by how I described.
If you think it's different and can prove it in any way and accepting that I will severely questioning anything yo do put out if I see any discrepancies from my side.

If you can get past that and then show me something legitimate, I'll be only too willing to take on that mantle.

Let's see what you've got.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3388 on: January 31, 2021, 02:04:45 AM »
If you think it's different and can prove it in any way and accepting that I will severely questioning anything yo do put out if I see any discrepancies from my side.
You mean like it not showing what you claim is correct?
i.e. if it shows you are wrong you will dismiss it as fake.

The only one refusing to provide anything legitimate is you.

You can't even answer a simple question.

Again, WHAT MAGIC STOPS THE BLUE LINE?
Unless you can answer that, your claims are BS.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28092
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #3389 on: January 31, 2021, 06:31:42 AM »


Again, WHAT MAGIC STOPS THE BLUE LINE?

Central (crosshair) vision through a level tube.