Help me Bom Tishop, you're my only hope

Bom, I think you're one of the few people here who can understand this dilemma.

Let's go back in time for a minute.  Pre 911.  I just buy an m5(not really an m5, just the closes approximation)

Mrs. Crouton buys a used Toyota Corolla, way back before she even knew me.

Fast forward past the twin towers falling, trillions in stupid wars, An Obama presidency and straight into the Trump years.

Baby 3 appears and neither of our cars can legally carry our entire family.

We buy a minivan(don't laugh, they're actually pretty freaking sweet for family bullshit).  The celica spends a lot of time just sitting in the garage.

Fast forward 2 years until closer to today.  My now almost 20 year old cars fails catastrophically. I start driving the corolla, which despite it's years is still solid transportation, for the time being.

Now here's the dilemma.  I have a giant, throbbing, unrelenting hardon for a Tesla Model S, which, Mr. tishop, I don't have to remind you is an electric super car that can stomp most corvettes in a drag race.  The model s costs money.  A shitload of money.  So much money in fact that I'm having a crisis of guilt about buying one of these.  Suppose Covid gets worse.  Someone I know loses his job.  He's in danger of losing everything.  I couldn't help but think that if I deferred getting that expensive when I have transportation that's perfectly adequate then I would be in a better position to bail out this hypothetical person.

Bom, since you're the only other person that I'm aware that's spent about that much money on a car I'm curious to know your thoughts on the matter.

I am not Bom, let me make that clear, neither am I an alt’ of Bom or one of his groupies, Bom is not in my imagined company of friends here, neither do I consider him an enemy, I am to all intents and purpose, Bom neutral.

So, you can tell me to mind my own business here, but it would be too late as this is quite obviously already out there.

My point is you should buy the Tesla, you want it and your wrestling with the guilt is proof that this is (probably) not just some childish whim and if, heaven forbid, a friend of yours does get the Covid shuffle, they will be living in a marginally cleaner world courtesy of your choice of personal transport, and should you give them a lift to the foodbank one day they will be able to marvel as you silently humiliate lower echelon corvette owners off the lights, a no brainer.

I'm not Bom either but I say do NOT buy the Tesla

I have taken a ride in one and it was boring, uninspiring and frankly, given my friend sunk $250K into it, an utter waste of money. Had him feeling like he was the envy of all around him (yeah right lol) if that's worth the cost

Brags to me that his fuel costs him nothing. Well lets see. He paid an additional $230K for his car than I did mine. I get about 1200km to a full tank of diesel fuel so only have to fill up about once every 3-4 weeks. Lets say I fill up at an average cost of $80, 20 times a year (worst case), that's $1600 per year in fuel.

Given I'm already ahead $230K (because at the end of the day, both cars get from A to B), it would take me about 143 years of driving before the Tesla would finally break even on the fuel saving. Only THEN would I finally start saving money on fuel lol.

The car is silent. It doesn't matter how quick it is off the line. When there is no audio feedback, it just simply isn't the same. Get in a high performance V8 or above and you will know. Alternatively if you like to play car racing games, just mute the speakers and tell me it's just as fun.

If you really got your heart set on it well as long as its chump change to you then go ahead. If it takes a bite into your savings and entails risk in this shitty covid era than maybe rethink whether you need this right away

Like the days of the small SD Plasma TV's that cost upwards of $20K or more when they were new, all the muppets buying them helped bring down the cost so the rest of us plebs could buy a 4K HDR massively oversized OLED for a fraction of the early Plasma TVs. Wait a few years and electric cars such as the Tesla will be a lot cheaper.

Play a game of would you rather. You have all that money in your hand. You could get a) Tesla. b) House for your children c) deck out your current house with any number of cool stuff to live a good life

The Tesla..... Just a car man, and a boring one to drive at that. Believe me, the thrill gets old real quick.

If you want the Tesla Buy the Tesla.

Why does what anyone else thinks matter?

Why should Shifter's boring anti-Tesla agenda matter?

I think they are great and would love one, but you shouldn't buy one because I like it, because why should that matter?

Do what makes you happy. Buy the Tesla, or donate a hundred grand right now to charity because there is ALWAYS going to be someone in need, but in the end your opinion is the only one that really counts.

No Bom here. But my 2 cents. I have a 2006 Mini Cooper S (Last of the Super Chargers before they went turbo) 5 Speed. 30k miles. A cream puff. Live in the big city, barely ever drive. Perfect for me, the wife, and the dog. Love the little gocart with all my heart. But wildly impractical beyond that.

That aside, a few months back I had a Lyft ride across town, was picked up in a brand new Tesla 3. I take Lyft/Uber a lot, mostly Prius's and Corolla's. Bouncing along in the Tesla, back seat mind you, was a pleasure in comparison to other rides. Super smooth, quiet. It's hilly around here, the driver seamlessly torqued up the steepest of climbs and I barely knew I was in a car. The interior appointments were sparingly sleek. Just a big wooden-esque dashboard and massive screen. That's it. And the skyroof is awesome. It's so windowy all around it feels very open and connected to your surroundings.

If I had to ditch the Cooper, I would get the Tesla 3 in a heartbeat. I just don't drive enough to justify the S. But if I had any sort of a commute, I'd seriously think about it.

I say pull the trigger and get it.

If you want the Tesla Buy the Tesla.

Why does what anyone else thinks matter?

Why should Shifter's boring anti-Tesla agenda matter?

I think they are great and would love one, but you shouldn't buy one because I like it, because why should that matter?

Do what makes you happy. Buy the Tesla, or donate a hundred grand right now to charity because there is ALWAYS going to be someone in need, but in the end your opinion is the only one that really counts.

I dont have a boring anti Tesla agenda. I think electric cars can be great. I also think they are quite ridiculously over priced. And the argument about 'well I dont have to pay for petrol anymore' is laughable (for those that brag about that fact with their EV car)

I personally think all cars should be electric or, powered by renewable sources or at least clean emissions. I also hope the lithium in these cars is recycled when the car becomes junk because it is a precious, and rare mineral. Thought needs to be considered as to how it is mined and to ensure it is ethical. Phone batteries we already know used child slave labour. Imagine trying to mine enough to make hundreds of millions of car batteries

As consumers we have the power to demand our uber rich billionaires do better by the planet and its people
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/apple-google-microsoft-tesla-dell-sued-over-cobalt-mining-children-in-congo-for-batteries-2019-12-17/


But hey, you live in the top 1 or 2%. You're life is good. Splash that cash around and tell the world what a pompous guy you are. I love cars. Fast and cool stylish cars even more. I shake my head and chuckle when I see a Tesla though. Not because Elon Musk is a prick. Care factor is zero there. But because I know the guy behind it is probably a self absorbed moron with more dollars than sense lol

Test drive a Tesla for a while if you dont believe me how boring they are to drive then. They look cool but the driving is boring.

But hey, you live in the top 1 or 2%. You're life is good. Splash that cash around and tell the world what a pompous guy you are. I love cars. Fast and cool stylish cars even more. I shake my head and chuckle when I see a Tesla though. Not because Elon Musk is a prick. Care factor is zero there. But because I know the guy behind it is probably a self absorbed moron with more dollars than sense lol

No agenda, sure.  You just think all Tesla owners are morons.

Test drive a Tesla for a while if you dont believe me how boring they are to drive then. They look cool but the driving is boring.

My friend took a two hour test drive of a Tesla and can't stop talking about how much he loved it.

I've driven one and it was anything but boring.

You need to understand that different people like different things. You can say YOU think Tesla's are boring, but you seem to imagine that because YOU are bored by them that everyone else must feel the same.  Other people can have opinions too, yours are not automatically better. 

Quote from: Shifter on September 07, 2020, 04:16:38 AM

But hey, you live in the top 1 or 2%. You're life is good. Splash that cash around and tell the world what a pompous guy you are. I love cars. Fast and cool stylish cars even more. I shake my head and chuckle when I see a Tesla though. Not because Elon Musk is a prick. Care factor is zero there. But because I know the guy behind it is probably a self absorbed moron with more dollars than sense lol

No agenda, sure.  You just think all Tesla owners are morons.

Quote from: Shifter on September 07, 2020, 04:16:38 AM

Test drive a Tesla for a while if you dont believe me how boring they are to drive then. They look cool but the driving is boring.

My friend took a two hour test drive of a Tesla and can't stop talking about how much he loved it.

I've driven one and it was anything but boring.

You need to understand that different people like different things. You can say YOU think Tesla's are boring, but you seem to imagine that because YOU are bored by them that everyone else must feel the same.  Other people can have opinions too, yours are not automatically better.

Boring compared to what though? Drive another car in the price range of a Tesla and you may well think the Tesla is a bit of a mute (pun intended)

I'm not saying the Tesla is a crappy car, it's not. It's just not worth the coin. I already said if the coin is chump change for the buyer then go ahead. But if you have to 'think' about it or worried it entails risk to your financial security later on then my advice would be to not get one (at least yet).

And personally, I do think of the ethical implications of purchases that I make. I may not be able to get around the need for a mobile phone (I buy a new phone when the one I have is too crappy to bear - about 4-5 years) but there are plenty of options around a car.

Imagine being told the car you were thinking of was literally made from blood sweat and tears (not just a figure of speech) and by children no less and you go for that. Who does that? Consumers have power and you can vote to change how companies operate with your wallet. If people told Elon or leaders of Apple, Samsung etc to eat a dick over their use of child slave labour and inhumane conditions in the factories that put the products together then perhaps the livelihoods of those people would be better

Imagine being told the car you were thinking of was literally made from blood sweat and tears (not just a figure of speech) and by children no less and you go for that. Who does that? Consumers have power and you can vote to change how companies operate with your wallet. If people told Elon or leaders of Apple, Samsung etc to eat a dick over their use of child slave labour and inhumane conditions in the factories that put the products together then perhaps the livelihoods of those people would be better

So, are we still pretending you don't have an agenda here?  If you don't want people to buy a Tesla because you think the company is evil, just say so like you did here. No need to pretend it's boring or make up excuses.

Just make sure give an alternative large global corporation that's NOT evil to buy an electric from, one that doesn't buy parts from countries that use child labor and have terrible working conditions. What's your recommendation? What car is child labor free?

Quote from: Shifter on September 07, 2020, 05:00:06 AM

Imagine being told the car you were thinking of was literally made from blood sweat and tears (not just a figure of speech) and by children no less and you go for that. Who does that? Consumers have power and you can vote to change how companies operate with your wallet. If people told Elon or leaders of Apple, Samsung etc to eat a dick over their use of child slave labour and inhumane conditions in the factories that put the products together then perhaps the livelihoods of those people would be better

So, are we still pretending you don't have an agenda here?  If you don't want people to buy a Tesla because you think the company is evil, just say so like you did here. No need to pretend it's boring or make up excuses.

Just make sure give an alternative large global corporation that's NOT evil to buy an electric from, one that doesn't buy parts from countries that use child labor and have terrible working conditions. What's your recommendation? What car is child labor free?

You insinuated I hated Tesla because I dont love Elon Musk. If in the other thread I said I loved Elon Musk and creamed my pants at the thought of him I doubt you would be as hostile to me now. I have no 'agenda'. I'm entitled to my opinion and dont believe my post on a flat earth forum is going to change anything. Buy the Telsa or dont. But if people ask my opinion on the car, I will say it is overpriced and boring to drive. I will say their 'fuel savings' (should they front that as a reason to buy an electric car that expensive) is ridiculous.

I said to buy it if its affordable but hold off if it entails risk to your financial security. A car doesn't appreciate in value. A car that expensive is not a necessity. Should be sound advice at any time. I also gave my opinion on the car so to test drive it a few times. (Not just once). You need to get over the fact that some people dont care about things you do.

Like I hinted at how I buy my phones, if the product you buy does have unethical practices in its production than dont buy them frivolously. I dont 'upgrade' my phones every 4-5 years because I'm a poor. I could 'upgrade' every 6 months if I wanted. I dont because I believe in ethical standards, to care about finite resources and not to help foster the despicable practices in the creation of these devices. Same goes for cars. Right now, even with money I wouldn't buy a Tesla and ethical standards would play a factor in that decision. Owning one would just leave a bit of a bitter taste. So sorry for my conscious bothering you

Only buy the Tesla if you can afford to buy it without compromising the monetary needs of your family. 

Only buy the Tesla if you can afford to buy it without compromising the monetary needs of your family.

^^ Far more succinct than I. What he said 

I'm sure it would be a nice car, but having read the recent uk Which? report (behind firewall) into reliability, I wouldn't touch a Model S.  On their 3-8 year reliability Tesla came out 29 out of 30 (with only the shitty Land Rover having a worse record).

20% of Model S ended up with a fault over that period.  To be fair it seems it's mainly for it's pop up door handles, which go wrong all the time, rather than exploding motors or doors that fall off.  Still....for that money...

Interestingly, Lexus had the best record, with their cars basically never going wrong.  Toyota a close second, not surprisingly.

If I were getting the Tesla, it would be the Model 3 - this too small for you?

I'm sure it would be a nice car, but having read the recent uk Which? report (behind firewall) into reliability, I wouldn't touch a Model S.  On their 3-8 year reliability Tesla came out 29 out of 30 (with only the shitty Land Rover having a worse record).

20% of Model S ended up with a fault over that period.  To be fair it seems it's mainly for it's pop up door handles, which go wrong all the time, rather than exploding motors or doors that fall off.  Still....for that money...

Interestingly, Lexus had the best record, with their cars basically never going wrong.  Toyota a close second, not surprisingly.

If I were getting the Tesla, it would be the Model 3 - this too small for you?

The reliability issue has a lot of different angles to it.  But as long as the critical systems are solid and I can get parts for it then I think I'll be okay there.

That doesn't surprise me about the Lexus.  Toyota makes a damn fine car.

The model 3 is a great car.  I prefer the Model S because I like the interior and the exterior a lot more.  Also the S has a trick that not a lot of people know about.  It's possible to configure it for a third row.  This makes it a very interesting car for crazy people like me that despise SUVs.

Well, if you like it and have the money, then go for it.  I'm sure it's a lovely luxury car.  Personally I can't imagine sinking that much into a motor.   You can buy an amazing vehicle second hand for a fraction of that cost.

Just be prepared to have your door handles break one day 

The Jaguar iPace is a little less.

Bill gates bough the Porsche Taycan. 

I'm not Bom either but I say do NOT buy the Tesla

I have taken a ride in one and it was boring, uninspiring and frankly, given my friend sunk $250K into it, an utter waste of money. Had him feeling like he was the envy of all around him (yeah right lol) if that's worth the cost

Brags to me that his fuel costs him nothing. Well lets see. He paid an additional $230K for his car than I did mine. I get about 1200km to a full tank of diesel fuel so only have to fill up about once every 3-4 weeks. Lets say I fill up at an average cost of $80, 20 times a year (worst case), that's $1600 per year in fuel.

Given I'm already ahead $230K (because at the end of the day, both cars get from A to B), it would take me about 143 years of driving before the Tesla would finally break even on the fuel saving. Only THEN would I finally start saving money on fuel lol.

The car is silent. It doesn't matter how quick it is off the line. When there is no audio feedback, it just simply isn't the same. Get in a high performance V8 or above and you will know. Alternatively if you like to play car racing games, just mute the speakers and tell me it's just as fun.

If you really got your heart set on it well as long as its chump change to you then go ahead. If it takes a bite into your savings and entails risk in this shitty covid era than maybe rethink whether you need this right away

Like the days of the small SD Plasma TV's that cost upwards of $20K or more when they were new, all the muppets buying them helped bring down the cost so the rest of us plebs could buy a 4K HDR massively oversized OLED for a fraction of the early Plasma TVs. Wait a few years and electric cars such as the Tesla will be a lot cheaper.

Play a game of would you rather. You have all that money in your hand. You could get a) Tesla. b) House for your children c) deck out your current house with any number of cool stuff to live a good life

The Tesla..... Just a car man, and a boring one to drive at that. Believe me, the thrill gets old real quick.

If you really have a friend who bought the most expensive Tesla then he A doesn’t care what you think and B doesn’t care about gas mileage vs payback.

Quote from: Shifter on September 07, 2020, 03:31:14 AM

I'm not Bom either but I say do NOT buy the Tesla

I have taken a ride in one and it was boring, uninspiring and frankly, given my friend sunk $250K into it, an utter waste of money. Had him feeling like he was the envy of all around him (yeah right lol) if that's worth the cost

Brags to me that his fuel costs him nothing. Well lets see. He paid an additional $230K for his car than I did mine. I get about 1200km to a full tank of diesel fuel so only have to fill up about once every 3-4 weeks. Lets say I fill up at an average cost of $80, 20 times a year (worst case), that's $1600 per year in fuel.

Given I'm already ahead $230K (because at the end of the day, both cars get from A to B), it would take me about 143 years of driving before the Tesla would finally break even on the fuel saving. Only THEN would I finally start saving money on fuel lol.

The car is silent. It doesn't matter how quick it is off the line. When there is no audio feedback, it just simply isn't the same. Get in a high performance V8 or above and you will know. Alternatively if you like to play car racing games, just mute the speakers and tell me it's just as fun.

If you really got your heart set on it well as long as its chump change to you then go ahead. If it takes a bite into your savings and entails risk in this shitty covid era than maybe rethink whether you need this right away

Like the days of the small SD Plasma TV's that cost upwards of $20K or more when they were new, all the muppets buying them helped bring down the cost so the rest of us plebs could buy a 4K HDR massively oversized OLED for a fraction of the early Plasma TVs. Wait a few years and electric cars such as the Tesla will be a lot cheaper.

Play a game of would you rather. You have all that money in your hand. You could get a) Tesla. b) House for your children c) deck out your current house with any number of cool stuff to live a good life

The Tesla..... Just a car man, and a boring one to drive at that. Believe me, the thrill gets old real quick.

If you really have a friend who bought the most expensive Tesla then he A doesn’t care what you think and B doesn’t care about gas mileage vs payback.

Don't be so sure. He drives around rubber necking to see if people are turning their heads at him in his flashy car. He gave me flak that I have to pay money every week (more like a month) to refuel my car and it doesn't cost him anything

On the surface, he'll tell you he doesn't give a damn what you think. On the inside, he cares more than he'd like to admit

Hell, one of the reasons he drove over 1200km was to show off the car to me.

So from a standing still you can go 0-80km/h in short order. Without a roar of an engine/exhaust I was not inspired lol. Some people like some auditory feedback I guess. For less than half the money you could buy a car which goes almost as fast, sounds as good as it looks and is a blast to drive. So it might drink petrol like it's going out of fashion.... The money you'd save would ensure petrol costs for decades.

Currently in Australia the charging stations are not so frequent you can drive whatever route you like either. Your trip interstate needs a lot of planning and detours. I could drive to his house about 1200km away potentially without refueling (although lets say I'm not stupid to run near empty and refuel while I take a rest stop). He will need quite the sight seeing tour and make 6 or 7 stops. My refuel time is 5 minutes. He might be charging for up to an hour or more.

The one deal breaker for a car like Tesla for me anyway is the lack of gear shifting. Sorry, that is part of the fun of driving a car. If you dont drive manual, you'll never know that feedback to driving experience a clutch and gearstick provide. Especially with performance cars. I'm in the drivers seat, I control the drive. Not some high tech ECU. Hell, I'd rather spend the same dosh on an old classic car than a new Tesla lol

So a lack of any noise and lack of any gear shifting to me just takes away from the driving experience. That's why I say to test drive it 'a few times'. The first time may be a thrill but as you familiarize yourself more with it, you may find it gets 'old'.

That feeling you have before you have something and you really want it. Then when you have it, that feeling goes away.

That feeling you have before you have something and you really want it. Then when you have it, that feeling goes away.

If you find that nothing in your life can give lasting enjoyment and you can't maintain happiness, perhaps you should talk to someone about that.

Quote from: Shifter on September 07, 2020, 07:54:43 AM

That feeling you have before you have something and you really want it. Then when you have it, that feeling goes away.

If you find that nothing in your life can give lasting enjoyment and you can't maintain happiness, perhaps you should talk to someone about that.

A bit over the top dont you think? This is a material object. A car. You inflate that to mean EVERYTHING. Seriously man

If you find that nothing in your life can give lasting enjoyment

I get plenty of lasting enjoyment out of almost everything in my life. Including material objects such as my phones that many people get the FOMO when a new model comes out 6 months later lol.

That said, when I want something, I bore myself to death studying it, looking at it on YouTube, seeing other peoples opinions on it, even searching for people who hate it or point out all the faults.

After a while it becomes 'normalised' in your brain. You can then view the object of your desire in a more logical and 3rd person perspective. You can be objective.

If you are going to dump as much money into a car that could net you a house than yeah, you should probably make sure it's going to be a good buy that you will enjoy and get the most out of for many years.

Owning an EV comes with drawbacks and that should be considered. You wont experience those drawbacks from test drive

My advice is to spend a long time studying the Tesla car. Go on YouTube, look at REAL reviews. Don't just funnel your search terms to find the glowing reviews either. Find people who outright hate the car they bought too. Sleep on it a little while. Imagine yourself with it for a while. It's a huge purchase. Maybe you can even find the cars to rent?

This is Australian though I'm sure America would do it too
https://www.evee.com.au/

Maybe do something like that?

I feel you on the manual transmission but they're nearly extinct. All the high performance cars are moving towards dual clutch or some similar monstrosity.

I feel you on the manual transmission but they're nearly extinct. All the high performance cars are moving towards dual clutch or some similar monstrosity.

This is probably the biggest issue for me across all modern cars; The death of the manual transmission is a tragedy.

I have a slightly different take than NSS: Buy the Tesla regardless of whether you can afford it and do so with absolutely zero regard for the needs of your family. You only get so many revolutions of the Sun circling above the flat earth. Live for the now!

Buy the Tesla regardless of whether you can afford it and do so with absolutely zero regard for the needs of your family.

Yeah, but if you're going down that route, there a probably a lot more fun things to do than buy a sedan.

There is actually one shining city on a hall regarding old school rwd manual transmissions.  The Toyota 86/scion frs, subaru brz(same cars actually).  200 hp in a 4 cylinder boxer engine, naturally aspirated, extremely reliable, also very cheap for what it is.  If it weren't for family needs then I'd probably be getting that.  The Model S is a better family car.

There is actually one shining city on a hall regarding old school rwd manual transmissions.  The Toyota 86/scion frs, subaru brz(same cars actually).  200 hp in a 4 cylinder boxer engine, naturally aspirated, extremely reliable, also very cheap for what it is.  If it weren't for family needs then I'd probably be getting that.  The Model S is a better family car.

You want a nice family car, I'd be going for a Jaguar XJ 351 with that money. Way nicer interior and a far more classy car. You wont look like a guy in a mid life crisis with a plastic fantastic 'look at me! fully sik mate!!!' but a guy that has class and knows what he likes



https://www.arden.de/en/refinement/jaguar/xj/x-351-since-2009/



Hell, the Tesla is just a giant kids plastic toy. No. A kids toy is harder to break
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lianeyvkoff/2019/08/04/a-teslas-accelerator-pedal-snapped-off-while-driving-this-isnt-the-first-time-its-happened/#3cd52fb3588a

A few comments down on the thread, a different owner posted photos he found on a Tesla Facebook group that show a driver holding in his hand the broken off pedal of his Model S. All three instances show the accelerator had snapped at the same point on the plastic rod.

I mean FFS what kind of quality control is there?

I mean FFS what kind of quality control is there?

Yeah, the S does not have a good reputation for reliability.  Then again, Jags don't either.

That Jag interior is lush though.  Seems you can't buy a new one anymore, as they stopped production in July

"X351 model will depart after nine years on sale, with the firm's iconic flagship tipped for an electric reinvention in 2020"

Figures all the libs in this thread want you to get it even if you can't pay for it.

My XJS It is sublime. Waft factor 10. This is a picture of the doorframe with a friend of mine.

I think you should find a nice 1984 Chevette.

Figures all the libs in this thread want you to get it even if you can't pay for it.

Actually, it's more of a Conservative Republican approach:

"Under Trump's Watch, America's National Debt Has Increased by $6.6 Trillion"