Poll

Pick one "AFTER" read the article

Helsinki  
5 (45.5%)
Moscow
6 (54.5%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?

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sokarul

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #60 on: September 07, 2020, 09:49:13 AM »
Asking which way is north is asking which way is down. My down may not be your down. Also 'North' is just called that because the picture of the global earth looks more aesthetically pleasing than this


When / if the poles flip are people really going to accept a compass with S at the top? (well given a flip can take thousands of year I'm sure we'll have time to get used to the idea)

There are ways to find direction without using a compass.

North is not based on pictures of the Earth. Please note this so you don’t shout incorrect info.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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wise

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #61 on: September 07, 2020, 10:03:54 AM »
Internetses tell me the Sun will set at 20:05 today in Helsinki, while in Moscow the same happens at 19:07. Let’s see if they are lying.

I can handle Helsinki. Is there anyone from Moscow here?
You are doing it wrong. helsinki is the west and naturally sun sets later. What about you try it tomorrow morning? If there are enough time difference of daylight, Helsinki should be take the sunlight first. Why don't you try this instead of trying to compare them that obviously depends on a known knowledge nobody deny here. Because of your having dishonest double standart?
1+2+3+...+∞= 1

Come on bro, just admit that the the earth isn't a sphere, you won't even be wrong

*

wise

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #62 on: September 07, 2020, 10:06:59 AM »
Wait, so the flight times on your link are correct, but the distances and maps are wrong? What makes you say one piece of data is right but the others aren't. From the same link?
And are you saying that pilots are secretly using your map? Because if they aren't, how do they ever get to their destinations?
I am keep telling the I am using the flight times and don't get the distances on flight websites for years. You are seemingly not worked to your lesson. Flight times depend on the reality, and flight distance depends on globularist map. They are using "about" a straight line by calling it as "great circle". Actually that circle mostly makes the route a straight line if made true.
What facts have been changed? The fact that, "Given Helsinki's northern latitude one would normally expect colder winter temperatures, but the Baltic Sea and North Atlantic Current have a mitigating effect on the temperatures, keeping them somewhat warmer in the winter, and cooler during the day in the summer."?

What facts do you have?
As I said before, there is always a scenario that can be made up. For example, jetscreams affect when traveling from west to east, for example when traveling from Australia to Santiago no one needs to shoot video, for example when all the rockets are going south but not going straight, this is because they are all somewhere in Africa.

You didn't answer my question:

Again, just whining and no evidence from you. How many times are you going to write, "hypocritial double standard dishonored dishonest childish argument" instead of looking at the facts that everyone can see? It's not "suggested" your map is wrong. It is shown to be with actual facts. Something you seem to be allergic too. When you have some evidence, put it out here instead of the perpetual insults. Facts, Wise, facts. That's what it's all about. Fix your map.
My map is the world's most accurate map. It can not be changed any ways. If it changes, the world's most accurate map never be exist anymore. This never will be happen!

Your map is used by no one on the planet. Yet people and goods all over the world get to where they need to get to everyday, 365. How can that be if literally no one is using your map?
Don't ask me for others in a simulation world. Simply I don't care.

I didn't ask whether you care or not. Show some logic and answer a very simple question: Your map is used by no one on the planet. Yet people and goods all over the world get to where they need to get to everyday, 365. How can that be if literally no one is using your map?
I answered it regardless of your opinion, I don't care what others do. It is an answer what you ask. Take it or leave it. You are asking same question, so answer is same. What others do is not my business.
1+2+3+...+∞= 1

Come on bro, just admit that the the earth isn't a sphere, you won't even be wrong

*

wise

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #63 on: September 07, 2020, 10:09:32 AM »
Okay then. I want to give you another examples. But the problem here, there is almost always Ukraina to middle of the road. Then, I have chose cities north of Ukrain.

Minsk, Belarus.

Links: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BYS434/history/20200907/0658Z/UUEE/UMMS
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BRU858/history/20200904/1345Z/EFHK/UMMS

The distance shown on flight map tells the distance of Helsinki is further.

Moscow - Minsk: 423 mi. (actual 399 mi)
Helsinki- Minsk: 459 mi. (actual 501 mi)

As we see that, Helsinki is so far to Minsk, compared to Moscow.

But if we look at flight times:

Minsk-Moscow: 1:35-1:55 hours arrival time;
Minsk-Helsinki: 1:08-1:24 hours.

We clearly see that Helsinki is closer to Minsk than Moscow.

Yes, now, I am ready to listen your lying arguments.  ;D

What's the speed of each aircraft? Look at your links. Yet another reason why your methodology is terrible.
You can find it here:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74162.msg2018831#msg2018831

These images have came from this link.

Version A, short:



Version B, enlarged:



There are aircraft types, speeds and lenght of the route on those charts averagelly calculated depends on more than 10 000 flights, may be 100 000.


You to not know anything isn't a mistake, but your behaving being extraordinary prejudiced bigot arguments are your mistake and what the real terrible here.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 10:13:09 AM by wise »
1+2+3+...+∞= 1

Come on bro, just admit that the the earth isn't a sphere, you won't even be wrong

*

Wolvaccine

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #64 on: September 07, 2020, 10:25:09 AM »
North is not based on pictures of the Earth. Please note this so you don’t shout incorrect info.

I note you are wrong. (no surprises there)

What everyone assumes is North is actually the Earths South Magnetic pole



Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

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Stash

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #65 on: September 07, 2020, 11:53:30 AM »
Wait, so the flight times on your link are correct, but the distances and maps are wrong? What makes you say one piece of data is right but the others aren't. From the same link?
And are you saying that pilots are secretly using your map? Because if they aren't, how do they ever get to their destinations?
I am keep telling the I am using the flight times and don't get the distances on flight websites for years. You are seemingly not worked to your lesson. Flight times depend on the reality, and flight distance depends on globularist map. They are using "about" a straight line by calling it as "great circle". Actually that circle mostly makes the route a straight line if made true.
What facts have been changed? The fact that, "Given Helsinki's northern latitude one would normally expect colder winter temperatures, but the Baltic Sea and North Atlantic Current have a mitigating effect on the temperatures, keeping them somewhat warmer in the winter, and cooler during the day in the summer."?

What facts do you have?
As I said before, there is always a scenario that can be made up. For example, jetscreams affect when traveling from west to east, for example when traveling from Australia to Santiago no one needs to shoot video, for example when all the rockets are going south but not going straight, this is because they are all somewhere in Africa.

You didn't answer my question:

Again, just whining and no evidence from you. How many times are you going to write, "hypocritial double standard dishonored dishonest childish argument" instead of looking at the facts that everyone can see? It's not "suggested" your map is wrong. It is shown to be with actual facts. Something you seem to be allergic too. When you have some evidence, put it out here instead of the perpetual insults. Facts, Wise, facts. That's what it's all about. Fix your map.
My map is the world's most accurate map. It can not be changed any ways. If it changes, the world's most accurate map never be exist anymore. This never will be happen!

Your map is used by no one on the planet. Yet people and goods all over the world get to where they need to get to everyday, 365. How can that be if literally no one is using your map?
Don't ask me for others in a simulation world. Simply I don't care.

I didn't ask whether you care or not. Show some logic and answer a very simple question: Your map is used by no one on the planet. Yet people and goods all over the world get to where they need to get to everyday, 365. How can that be if literally no one is using your map?
I answered it regardless of your opinion, I don't care what others do. It is an answer what you ask. Take it or leave it. You are asking same question, so answer is same. What others do is not my business.

It's not a matter whether you care what others do, it's a matter of explaining how your map can be the most accurate. That is your claim. So how can it be the most accurate when everyone else on the planet uses a map that shows Helsinki more northern than Moscow, for example? How are flights not going the correct direction and still arriving at their destination if they are using an inaccurate map. You need to explain this in order to back up your claim. It's called facts.

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Stash

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #66 on: September 07, 2020, 11:57:44 AM »
Okay then. I want to give you another examples. But the problem here, there is almost always Ukraina to middle of the road. Then, I have chose cities north of Ukrain.

Minsk, Belarus.

Links: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BYS434/history/20200907/0658Z/UUEE/UMMS
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BRU858/history/20200904/1345Z/EFHK/UMMS

The distance shown on flight map tells the distance of Helsinki is further.

Moscow - Minsk: 423 mi. (actual 399 mi)
Helsinki- Minsk: 459 mi. (actual 501 mi)

As we see that, Helsinki is so far to Minsk, compared to Moscow.

But if we look at flight times:

Minsk-Moscow: 1:35-1:55 hours arrival time;
Minsk-Helsinki: 1:08-1:24 hours.

We clearly see that Helsinki is closer to Minsk than Moscow.

Yes, now, I am ready to listen your lying arguments.  ;D

What's the speed of each aircraft? Look at your links. Yet another reason why your methodology is terrible.
You can find it here:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74162.msg2018831#msg2018831

These images have came from this link.

Version A, short:



Version B, enlarged:



There are aircraft types, speeds and lenght of the route on those charts averagelly calculated depends on more than 10 000 flights, may be 100 000.


You to not know anything isn't a mistake, but your behaving being extraordinary prejudiced bigot arguments are your mistake and what the real terrible here.

No, what were the speeds of the flights you specifically referenced? What were the types of planes you specifically referenced? Your chart doesn't mean anything. You picked two very specific flights, you need to examine the data from those two specific flights. How does that not make sense to you?

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JackBlack

  • 21703
Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #67 on: September 07, 2020, 02:28:55 PM »
You have no evidence anyone is hired to oppose you. Without evidence it is just a paranoid lie.
Your existance is an evidence. With this evidence number of globularists being here more than real earthers either because of they are hired or is a paranoid behave.
No, that is not evidence at all.
The vast majority of the world accepts that Earth is round.
Plenty of people actually care about the truth and your abhorrent anti-science attitude.
So it is perfectly reasonable that people will be here calling out your failed methods and explaining why it is wrong, without being hired to do so.

It also doesn't make much sense to hire so many people.

Your statement also makes no sense, the "globularists" are the "Real Earthers".
The flat Earthers are the fake Earthers.

It is not better. The best method is using flight times.
No, it isn't, as this thread clearly establishes.
If it was the best method you would not have the contradiction between the different flights.
If it was the best method (and your claim was correct) you wouldn't need to repeatedly ignore flights which show you are wrong.
Flight times is an extremely flawed method due to planes not flying directly to their destination at identical speeds.
Flight times is only marginally better than driving time.

The number of daylight hours is the best method, unless you are comparing cities which are very close, in which case you need to resort to a precise measurement of the angle of elevation the sun at solar noon.

Which route? Your claim a route does not make a route exist. I am not ignoring anything. Cut silly arguments.
The route you have been provided with several times, by several people, which you have ignored every time.
This flight between Istanbul and Moscow:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/THY6163/history/20200902/1910Z/UUEE/LTFM
This flight which takes between 2 and 2.5 hours.
This flight which takes less time than a flight from Istanbul to Helsinki.

This flight, which if your methodology was correct (and "the best") would clearly demonstrate that Helsinki is NORTH of Moscow.

So it is quite clear why you continue to ignore it, because it shows you are wrong.

Going to cut your silly arguments and instead actually address this flight?

It works which one closer. Moscow simply further and it makes it further north.
No, if your horribly flawed methodology actually worked, then it would only show which is closer, not which is further north.
A city 100 km to the north is closer than a city 200 km to the west.

Simimar type of aircrafts have similar speed on the air, route being short or long affect it.
Firstly, that would only be the air speed not the ground speed. Depending upon conditions they can vary significantly.
Similar, not identical. So what is your uncertainty? You never provide that.
And why should we believe these aircraft are similar?
While it tells us BRU858 was a Embraer ERJ-190 twin jet, it tells us nothing about BYS434.
What plane was flying BYS434?

Without that information you have no basis at all to claim the speeds should be the same.
The only basis you could appeal to is the chart which shows the speed, which shows a cruising speed of ~400 km/hr for BYS434, and ~800 km/hr for BRU858. But that shows you are wrong.

So there is no basis to foolishly believe these 2 flights flew at the same speed, and thus all you are doing by using these flight times is showing that different planes/different routes fly at different speeds.

And again, your own links show your method is nonsense.

Look at the flight times recorded, for BYS434 we have a 1 hr 55 minute trip from SVO to MSQ.
But then on the trip back we have a 1 hr 35 minute trip. That is a difference of roughly 25%.
Looking at BRU858 (and ignoring the one which did not record the flight duration correctly, show in italics), we have from ~ 1hr, to ~1.5 hours. That is a difference of 33%.
So even for the same route. Some of this is due to using different aircraft.

But it shows beyond any doubt that this method has massive uncertainties and that you cannot simply pick 2 routes and then use a flight time to determine which is a shorter distance.

Your method is so flawed it isn't funny and relies upon wilful ignorance to all these problems.

Why does Helsinki receive more daylight hours than Moscow during their summer and less during their winter?
It is a claim need to be proven.
And it has been proven, you were provided with links to a site where you can verify it.
If you reject those you can happily go to the locations and determine it for yourself.

Again, stop dishonored hypocrital arguments with extaordinary dishonesty.
Follow your own advice.
Stop using flight times, as they have been repeatedly shown to not work for what you are trying to do.
If you are going to use flight times, make sure you include the uncertainty.

What's the speed of each aircraft? Look at your links. Yet another reason why your methodology is terrible.
You can find it here:
No you can't.
Where is ERJ-190 in that list? No where.
Where is whatever plane is used for BYS434? Who knows.

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JackBlack

  • 21703
Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #68 on: September 07, 2020, 02:42:21 PM »
Asking which way is north is asking which way is down. My down may not be your down. Also 'North' is just called that because the picture of the global earth looks more aesthetically pleasing than this


When / if the poles flip are people really going to accept a compass with S at the top? (well given a flip can take thousands of year I'm sure we'll have time to get used to the idea)

So how did the people of ancient times get to space to get a picture to know which way they should call north?
Are you sure it wasn't called north because it was to the left of the rising sun?
After all, plenty of maps placed east at the top, again, based upon the rising sun.

We could happily put any direction at the top. So that clearly isn't the reason.

When the MAGNETIC poles flip, why would that change the GEOGRAPHIC poles?
Geographic north is separate from magnetic north.

All it will do is change a magnetic declination by roughly 180 degrees.
Or maybe they will start calling it north like they should have from the start.

Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #69 on: September 07, 2020, 03:18:51 PM »
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

From the FAQ - "In general, we at the Flat Earth Society do not lend much credibility to photographic evidence."

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rvlvr

  • 2148
Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #70 on: September 08, 2020, 02:12:12 AM »
So, do we already know which capital is northern? Seems there is some confusion regarding it.

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wise

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #71 on: September 08, 2020, 03:45:20 AM »
Okay then. I want to give you another examples. But the problem here, there is almost always Ukraina to middle of the road. Then, I have chose cities north of Ukrain.

Minsk, Belarus.

Links: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BYS434/history/20200907/0658Z/UUEE/UMMS
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BRU858/history/20200904/1345Z/EFHK/UMMS

The distance shown on flight map tells the distance of Helsinki is further.

Moscow - Minsk: 423 mi. (actual 399 mi)
Helsinki- Minsk: 459 mi. (actual 501 mi)

As we see that, Helsinki is so far to Minsk, compared to Moscow.

But if we look at flight times:

Minsk-Moscow: 1:35-1:55 hours arrival time;
Minsk-Helsinki: 1:08-1:24 hours.

We clearly see that Helsinki is closer to Minsk than Moscow.

Yes, now, I am ready to listen your lying arguments.  ;D

What's the speed of each aircraft? Look at your links. Yet another reason why your methodology is terrible.
You can find it here:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74162.msg2018831#msg2018831

These images have came from this link.

Version A, short:



Version B, enlarged:



There are aircraft types, speeds and lenght of the route on those charts averagelly calculated depends on more than 10 000 flights, may be 100 000.


You to not know anything isn't a mistake, but your behaving being extraordinary prejudiced bigot arguments are your mistake and what the real terrible here.

No, what were the speeds of the flights you specifically referenced? What were the types of planes you specifically referenced? Your chart doesn't mean anything. You picked two very specific flights, you need to examine the data from those two specific flights. How does that not make sense to you?
No I don't need it. Because I am knowing the drill. As you can see, the distance is more important than the aircraft type in order to examining speed. For example, for 300 kms distance, there is at most 6% speed difference between different type of aircrafts. But an aircraft flies more than 9000kms is faster 50% more than a same type aircraft runs to 300kms. Hence, the type of aircrafts are not important for close distances. And if we compare two distances -should be comprarable- means those distances are close, hence, the speeds should be similar. Hence, no need to examine.
1+2+3+...+∞= 1

Come on bro, just admit that the the earth isn't a sphere, you won't even be wrong

*

wise

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  • The Only Yang Scholar in The Ying Universe
Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #72 on: September 08, 2020, 04:01:30 AM »
Wait, so the flight times on your link are correct, but the distances and maps are wrong? What makes you say one piece of data is right but the others aren't. From the same link?
And are you saying that pilots are secretly using your map? Because if they aren't, how do they ever get to their destinations?
I am keep telling the I am using the flight times and don't get the distances on flight websites for years. You are seemingly not worked to your lesson. Flight times depend on the reality, and flight distance depends on globularist map. They are using "about" a straight line by calling it as "great circle". Actually that circle mostly makes the route a straight line if made true.
What facts have been changed? The fact that, "Given Helsinki's northern latitude one would normally expect colder winter temperatures, but the Baltic Sea and North Atlantic Current have a mitigating effect on the temperatures, keeping them somewhat warmer in the winter, and cooler during the day in the summer."?

What facts do you have?
As I said before, there is always a scenario that can be made up. For example, jetscreams affect when traveling from west to east, for example when traveling from Australia to Santiago no one needs to shoot video, for example when all the rockets are going south but not going straight, this is because they are all somewhere in Africa.

You didn't answer my question:

Again, just whining and no evidence from you. How many times are you going to write, "hypocritial double standard dishonored dishonest childish argument" instead of looking at the facts that everyone can see? It's not "suggested" your map is wrong. It is shown to be with actual facts. Something you seem to be allergic too. When you have some evidence, put it out here instead of the perpetual insults. Facts, Wise, facts. That's what it's all about. Fix your map.
My map is the world's most accurate map. It can not be changed any ways. If it changes, the world's most accurate map never be exist anymore. This never will be happen!

Your map is used by no one on the planet. Yet people and goods all over the world get to where they need to get to everyday, 365. How can that be if literally no one is using your map?
Don't ask me for others in a simulation world. Simply I don't care.

I didn't ask whether you care or not. Show some logic and answer a very simple question: Your map is used by no one on the planet. Yet people and goods all over the world get to where they need to get to everyday, 365. How can that be if literally no one is using your map?
I answered it regardless of your opinion, I don't care what others do. It is an answer what you ask. Take it or leave it. You are asking same question, so answer is same. What others do is not my business.

It's not a matter whether you care what others do, it's a matter of explaining how your map can be the most accurate. That is your claim. So how can it be the most accurate when everyone else on the planet uses a map that shows Helsinki more northern than Moscow, for example? How are flights not going the correct direction and still arriving at their destination if they are using an inaccurate map. You need to explain this in order to back up your claim. It's called facts.
In order to arrive to the true destination, everybody uses same map with same GPS system. GPS system referres the curren supposedly maps. It is not so true and there are many mistakes but it works this way.
No, that is not evidence at all.
No, it is full of evidence only somebody like you have a retard, dishonest, idiot, stupid extraordinary dishonored standarts can deny it.
The vast majority of the world accepts that Earth is round.
According to votes, believers is 2% in USA, and 7% according to some polls, and more than NASA lickers according to my own completely scientific statistics. They may think Helsinki is north because of they use the other map, but they can be easily convinced, because they are not as fool as globularist arguments.
<paranormal claims>
I have shorted your paranormal claims. As a result, you are not better than Stash, but you are talking more.

Guess you are thinking talking more makes you look like smarter. But it makes your arguments stupid, not better.
1+2+3+...+∞= 1

Come on bro, just admit that the the earth isn't a sphere, you won't even be wrong

*

Stash

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #73 on: September 08, 2020, 01:04:40 PM »
Okay then. I want to give you another examples. But the problem here, there is almost always Ukraina to middle of the road. Then, I have chose cities north of Ukrain.

Minsk, Belarus.

Links: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BYS434/history/20200907/0658Z/UUEE/UMMS
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BRU858/history/20200904/1345Z/EFHK/UMMS

The distance shown on flight map tells the distance of Helsinki is further.

Moscow - Minsk: 423 mi. (actual 399 mi)
Helsinki- Minsk: 459 mi. (actual 501 mi)

As we see that, Helsinki is so far to Minsk, compared to Moscow.

But if we look at flight times:

Minsk-Moscow: 1:35-1:55 hours arrival time;
Minsk-Helsinki: 1:08-1:24 hours.

We clearly see that Helsinki is closer to Minsk than Moscow.

Yes, now, I am ready to listen your lying arguments.  ;D

What's the speed of each aircraft? Look at your links. Yet another reason why your methodology is terrible.
You can find it here:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74162.msg2018831#msg2018831

These images have came from this link.

Version A, short:



Version B, enlarged:



There are aircraft types, speeds and lenght of the route on those charts averagelly calculated depends on more than 10 000 flights, may be 100 000.


You to not know anything isn't a mistake, but your behaving being extraordinary prejudiced bigot arguments are your mistake and what the real terrible here.

No, what were the speeds of the flights you specifically referenced? What were the types of planes you specifically referenced? Your chart doesn't mean anything. You picked two very specific flights, you need to examine the data from those two specific flights. How does that not make sense to you?
No I don't need it. Because I am knowing the drill. As you can see, the distance is more important than the aircraft type in order to examining speed. For example, for 300 kms distance, there is at most 6% speed difference between different type of aircrafts. But an aircraft flies more than 9000kms is faster 50% more than a same type aircraft runs to 300kms. Hence, the type of aircrafts are not important for close distances. And if we compare two distances -should be comprarable- means those distances are close, hence, the speeds should be similar. Hence, no need to examine.

If distance is more important than speed (strange) how do you reconcile these two flights, both from Istanbul to Moscow, yet very different distances?

Turkish Airlines from Istanbul to Moscow, they do fly over Ukraine, specifically here, Turkish Airlines 6162. Notice how the distance is 1130 miles as opposed to Aeroflot’s flight (Not over Ukraine) of 1566 miles:



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JackBlack

  • 21703
Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #74 on: September 08, 2020, 02:08:35 PM »
No I don't need it. Because I am knowing the drill.
You mean spout a bunch of unsubstantiated nonsense, and then dismiss any evidence that shows you are wrong?

As you can see, the distance is more important than the aircraft type in order to examining speed.
You mean when you have a list of quite similar aircraft?
Were they are all fairly large commercial jet aircraft with quite a long range?

Where are the prop aircraft?
Where are the smaller aircraft?

Where is the Embraer ERJ-190?
Looking at the flight history (from your link), we see it takes ~1.5 hours.
Looking at the B735/733/738, we see times closer to 1 hour.
I would say that shows the aircraft type can have a significant effect.

But of course, this destroys your argument so you will dismiss it.

In order to arrive to the true destination, everybody uses same map with same GPS system. GPS system referres the curren supposedly maps. It is not so true and there are many mistakes but it works this way.
So why have you been unable to show any mistake?

No, it is full of evidence only somebody like you have a retard, dishonest, idiot, stupid extraordinary dishonored standarts can deny it.
No, and that comment just further shows how paranoid you are and how your wild speculation is not evidence, and you have no case at all.

You have no evidence at all that anyone here is hired to oppose you.
But as you cannot honestly and rationally defend our position you resort to whatever dishonest BS you can to attack those showing you are wrong rather than attacking their arguments.

The vast majority of the world accepts that Earth is round.
According to votes, believers is 2% in USA
So a small portion, so the majority of the US accepts Earth is round.

more than NASA lickers according to my own completely scientific statistics
You mean according to completely unscientific nonsense which indicates more people than exist believe in water, clearly showing it is pure garbage.
But who cares about NASA?
NASA is an organisation, you don't need to care about NASA at all to accept Earth is round.
Earth was known to be round long before NASA came to be.

They may think Helsinki is north because of they use the other map
Or maybe they think it is further north because Helsinki is further north as all the evidence shows.

I have shorted your paranormal claims.
You mean you have completely dismissed my normal claims as you have no rational response to them.
Good job showing your dishonesty yet again and how you have no ability to honestly and rationally defend your false claims and no intention of accepting reality and admitting you are wrong.

Again, the fact that a flight choose to continue to ignore, you choose to remain wilfully ignorant of, would indicate (under your methodology) that Helsinki is further north of Moscow, while a different flight shows the exact opposite shows that this methodology is fundamentally flawed as it produces contradictory results with no explanation at all.

This means using flight times is a waste of time for cities like this as it cannot tell which is further north.
This has been shown beyond any sane doubt, yet you cling to this faulty method as to discard would mean accepting your map is wrong and you can't handle that.

Likewise weather has been shown to not be reliable as depending on which period of the year you pick, you end up with a different result.
Again, other factors are at play which makes that method useless.

Yet there is one method that you refuse to even consider, because it shows you are wrong and unlike the others you can't just pick and choose which result to use as they all indicate that Helsinki is further north.
This shows that this method is more reliable.
You have no rational response to the number of daylight hours in Helsinki and Moscow.
You have no rational response to why Helsinki has more during summer and less during winter, clearly indicate that it is further north.

So going to grow up and try to honestly and rationally defend your position? Or to surprise everyone and admit you were wrong and admit that Helsinki is further north as the evidence which can actually tell which is further north indicates Helsinki is further north?

Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #75 on: September 08, 2020, 04:39:57 PM »
You can't use a table of aircraft to try and work out how fast each one goes. The aircraft type is not the main variable here. There's passenger load, fuel load, tail winds, head winds, jet streams, company policies, ATC instructions, weather, local wars on the ground (missile threat), storms to fly around, shortening the amount flown over sea (ie, distance from nearest airport in case of emergency), traffic and probably a hundred other things I don't know about.
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

From the FAQ - "In general, we at the Flat Earth Society do not lend much credibility to photographic evidence."

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #76 on: September 08, 2020, 07:07:36 PM »
You can't use a table of aircraft to try and work out how fast each one goes. The aircraft type is not the main variable here. There's passenger load, fuel load, tail winds, head winds, jet streams, company policies, ATC instructions, weather, local wars on the ground (missile threat), storms to fly around, shortening the amount flown over sea (ie, distance from nearest airport in case of emergency), traffic and probably a hundred other things I don't know about.

And yet, they are able to tell you the arrival time pretty accurately to the minute over distances of over ten thousand kilometres.

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

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Stash

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #77 on: September 08, 2020, 08:45:50 PM »
You can't use a table of aircraft to try and work out how fast each one goes. The aircraft type is not the main variable here. There's passenger load, fuel load, tail winds, head winds, jet streams, company policies, ATC instructions, weather, local wars on the ground (missile threat), storms to fly around, shortening the amount flown over sea (ie, distance from nearest airport in case of emergency), traffic and probably a hundred other things I don't know about.

And yet, they are able to tell you the arrival time pretty accurately to the minute over distances of over ten thousand kilometres.

Yes, they can. Wise's table cannot. And they can because they take into consideration everything turtles laid out. Unlike Wise, who picks a piece of data here and there all so it fits into his beloved and flawed map which is the exact opposite of science. One should take in all the data and if it doesn't prove your hypothesis, find out why. Not the other way around. It's literally the whole point.

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rvlvr

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #78 on: September 08, 2020, 09:15:16 PM »
Wise, which flights are the ones we know are right, the ones which give the correct distance? And which are not?

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wise

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #79 on: September 09, 2020, 02:14:08 AM »
If distance is more important than speed (strange)...
Strange because you have missunderstand it. distance is more important than aircraft type.

Try again with true knowledge.
1+2+3+...+∞= 1

Come on bro, just admit that the the earth isn't a sphere, you won't even be wrong

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wise

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #80 on: September 09, 2020, 02:22:44 AM »
Wise, which flights are the ones we know are right, the ones which give the correct distance? And which are not?
How can I answer that with an exact statement? Most of the flights within Europe and America in general are correct. However, flights inside Asia and Africa, especially in China and Russia, as well as inter-continental distances are often inaccurate. Airplanes usually go at the right speed on the right route. However, the distances shown on the map may appear different because they are incorrect.

In principle; If one of two aircraft of the same type flying at the same distance arrives 1 hour later than the other, it is not due to pilot error, but because of its longer path. Pilots are well trained and well paid. I think they pays back well for it with good working. If you look at the flights, you will see that some planes in China travel at almost half the speed of those in Russia similar types and similar distances. Hence, those maps are wrong, they are garbage.

Generally it is this way. I can check it especially if you ask for a specific flight or distance.
1+2+3+...+∞= 1

Come on bro, just admit that the the earth isn't a sphere, you won't even be wrong

Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #81 on: September 09, 2020, 02:52:23 AM »
In principle; If one of two aircraft of the same type flying at the same distance arrives 1 hour later than the other, it is not due to pilot error, but because of its longer path. Pilots are well trained and well paid. I think they pays back well for it with good working. If you look at the flights, you will see that some planes in China travel at almost half the speed of those in Russia similar types and similar distances. Hence, those maps are wrong, they are garbage.

Generally it is this way. I can check it especially if you ask for a specific flight or distance.

This is pure ignorance and incompetence.
I've been flying regularly with the private airplane (exactly this one - https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9582219) on the 1100-1200km distance. Normally the flight takes around 2hrs, but depending on the strenght and presence of headwind or tailwind it can take from 1.5hrs up to 2.5hrs. So there might be 1hrs (from experience of my colleagues even longer) differences on such small distance.

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wise

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #82 on: September 09, 2020, 03:29:31 AM »
Shameless insult reported. You globularists have nothing but insult ability. I have started to think you globularists are coming here in order to get a revenge of your losing the case general, and relaxing here by insulting the believers. This is literally not a true way of arguing.
1+2+3+...+∞= 1

Come on bro, just admit that the the earth isn't a sphere, you won't even be wrong

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rvlvr

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #83 on: September 09, 2020, 03:36:20 AM »
Generally it is this way. I can check it especially if you ask for a specific flight or distance.
Just out of morbid curiosity: the flight from Lisbon to Rio?

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wise

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #84 on: September 09, 2020, 03:42:52 AM »
Generally it is this way. I can check it especially if you ask for a specific flight or distance.
Just out of morbid curiosity: the flight from Lisbon to Rio?
It is seemingly actually 3.000 kms more than shown in globularist map. I will examine the relationship with flight times.
1+2+3+...+∞= 1

Come on bro, just admit that the the earth isn't a sphere, you won't even be wrong

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wise

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #85 on: September 09, 2020, 03:54:58 AM »
According to this flight,

the flight time is about 9:45 from Rio to Lisbon;

opposite is about 9:15

The aircraft is A339, distance is about 9000 so the speed is: 869 km/h.

We can take the flight time as 9:30 average. With this speed, distance is: 869* 9:30 = 8.255 kms.

Distance of globularist map: 7.718 kms.

Distance of my map: absent.

Rio isn't exist on my map, hence, I don't want to talk about it.
1+2+3+...+∞= 1

Come on bro, just admit that the the earth isn't a sphere, you won't even be wrong

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rvlvr

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #86 on: September 09, 2020, 04:10:51 AM »
I've taken the flight several times. Did not know it is all messed up.

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wise

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #87 on: September 09, 2020, 04:14:53 AM »
What was messed up for example? Was the plane uncomfortable, was the stewardesses were indifferent, was there a sex scandal on the plane, or was Rio bad?
1+2+3+...+∞= 1

Come on bro, just admit that the the earth isn't a sphere, you won't even be wrong

*

rvlvr

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #88 on: September 09, 2020, 04:21:03 AM »
It is seemingly actually 3.000 kms more than shown in globularist map. I will examine the relationship with flight times.
TAP is pretty crap, but I though you said the distance is wrong, hence the flight could be somehow manipulated?

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wise

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Re: Which one further north, Helsinki or Moscow?
« Reply #89 on: September 09, 2020, 04:32:12 AM »
It is seemingly actually 3.000 kms more than shown in globularist map. I will examine the relationship with flight times.
TAP is pretty crap, but I though you said the distance is wrong, hence the flight could be somehow manipulated?
Distance is not so wrong. I have take the average time with high limit. The speed of the A339 type aircraft is not in my records, I accepted the same as the A330 type. It may be going a little slower or faster and the distance on the map may be correct or incorrect. There is nothing to manipulate in this route. Spain and Portugal are already close to South America in all ways.
1+2+3+...+∞= 1

Come on bro, just admit that the the earth isn't a sphere, you won't even be wrong