Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #60 on: August 29, 2020, 08:45:13 AM »
ABSOLUTELY FUNDAMENTAL  mechanics that has somehow been missed by everyone who has used these equations to build all the technology you take for granted over the last few hundred years.

Cut the crap.

The jet engine was invented by Viktor Schauberger, using ether theory.

The B-2 bomber flies using the Biefeld-Brown effect.

I must have missed those modules, along with every other mechanical engineering student at every university. 

These effects appear in no standard texts that engineers learn.  Newton’s laws of motion and universal gravitation on the other hand are in the first few pages of all the relevant books (a great many of them).

I wonder how engineers working at the likes of Boeing, Airbus, GE, Rolls-Royce, etc. manage to design functional aircraft and engines if they’re using all the wrong physics as you claim?


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sokarul

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #61 on: August 29, 2020, 09:17:00 AM »
ABSOLUTELY FUNDAMENTAL  mechanics that has somehow been missed by everyone who has used these equations to build all the technology you take for granted over the last few hundred years.

Cut the crap.

The jet engine was invented by Viktor Schauberger, using ether theory.

The B-2 bomber flies using the Biefeld-Brown effect.

I must have missed those modules, along with every other mechanical engineering student at every university. 

These effects appear in no standard texts that engineers learn.  Newton’s laws of motion and universal gravitation on the other hand are in the first few pages of all the relevant books (a great many of them).

I wonder how engineers working at the likes of Boeing, Airbus, GE, Rolls-Royce, etc. manage to design functional aircraft and engines if they’re using all the wrong physics as you claim?

His airplanes claims are mind boggling.
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JJA

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #62 on: August 29, 2020, 10:07:02 AM »
ABSOLUTELY FUNDAMENTAL  mechanics that has somehow been missed by everyone who has used these equations to build all the technology you take for granted over the last few hundred years.

Cut the crap.

The jet engine was invented by Viktor Schauberger, using ether theory.

The B-2 bomber flies using the Biefeld-Brown effect.

I must have missed those modules, along with every other mechanical engineering student at every university. 

These effects appear in no standard texts that engineers learn.  Newton’s laws of motion and universal gravitation on the other hand are in the first few pages of all the relevant books (a great many of them).

I wonder how engineers working at the likes of Boeing, Airbus, GE, Rolls-Royce, etc. manage to design functional aircraft and engines if they’re using all the wrong physics as you claim?

His airplanes claims are mind boggling.

If you think there is a vast worldwide conspiracy to hide the shape of the Earth, lie about all of recorded human history and the entire scientific revolution is faked and wrong... then imagining that planes have hidden anti-gravity machines in them isn't much of a stretch anymore.

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sandokhan

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #63 on: August 29, 2020, 10:21:55 AM »
Few researchers know that the jet engine was designed by Viktor Schauberger.

In documents dated 1941, V. Schauberger describes how Professor Ernst Heinkel, the designer of the first successful jet-plane (first flight 27 Aug 1939), had illegally obtained sight of Viktor's preliminary applications at the Patent Office in Berlin through his patent attorneys, Lehmann-Harlens. Having studied them carefully, Heinkel then expressed his disinterest in them, but immediately inaugurated a covert research programme using this information in modified form to improve the performance of his 1,000 kph fighter, most probably the He 280. This was an indictable infringement of Viktor's still confidential application. Wishing to avoid discovery and in order to continue to make use of the unlawfully obtained data, Heinkel fraudulently attempted to have Viktor's patent restricted to the conversion of sea water into fresh water only, by having its application to aircraft and submarine propulsion disallowed.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170611101930/http://free-energy.xf.cz/SCHAUBERGER/Living_Energies.pdf

The story goes like this, as narrated by Schauberger and from his letter-correspondence:

At some point in time Schauberger met Heinkel. He mentioned his special "Turbine" for propulsion which shall have an extraordinary performance. Heinkel was interested and Schauberger explained the engine to him, drew sketches etc. He then said to Heinkel, that if he's interested in building a prototype, then he shall contact him for making an arrangement. But he didn't hear anything from him anymore, so he thought that Heinkel wasn't interested.

Much later Schauberger heard through the SS, that Heinkel actually built a prototype which flew over 1000km/h, but which had frequent completely unpredictable engine stalls, and that their technicians are out of ideas of how to fix this. When they explained to him, how Heinkel made the Piston-Engine/Turbine aggregate, he said, that he knew immediately what Heinkel was doing wrong, and that in this arrangement an engine stall would be logic.

Although Heinkel never had the honesty to reveal the source of the ideas for his invention, keeping all the kudos for himself, this jet plane was nevertheless built as a direct result of Viktor's theories. Viktor Schauberger is therefore the real father of the present jet age . He even went as far as to state that in order to develop and build fast-flying, supersonic aircraft successfully, the bodily forms of deep-sea fish should be copied. Today's 'stealth bombers' very much emulate these forms.

Viktor Schauberger patents:

http://www.rexresearch.com/schaub/schaub.htm#117749




"If water or air is rotated into a twisting form of oscillation known as ‘colloidal’, a build up of energy results, which, with immense power, can cause levitation. This form of movement is able to carry with it its own means of power generation. This principle leads logically to its application in the design of the ideal airplane or submarine... requiring almost no motive power."

V. Schauberger

http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/Viktor%20Schauberger.htm

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sokarul

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #64 on: August 29, 2020, 10:47:20 AM »
Jet engines work by equal and opposite reaction. Exhaust goes one way and the plane goes the other.




I’m not sure how a sane person can believe otherwise.
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sandokhan

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #65 on: August 29, 2020, 11:24:38 AM »
Are you going to call Hermann Weyl insane?

Here is the antigravitational Weyl-Ivanov formula:






https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0507082.pdf

Weyl electrovacuum solutions and gauge invariance
Dr. B.V. Ivanov

https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0502047.pdf

On the gravitational field induced by static electromagnetic sources
Dr. B.V Ivanov

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sokarul

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #66 on: August 29, 2020, 11:35:03 AM »
Why do airplanes need to reach takeoff speed? Why is takeoff speed not zero?
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JJA

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #67 on: August 29, 2020, 11:44:44 AM »
Are you going to call Hermann Weyl insane?

He isn't the one I'd use the insane label on.  :P

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sokarul

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #68 on: August 31, 2020, 06:26:19 AM »
Why do airplanes need to reach takeoff speed? Why is takeoff speed not zero?

Dear sandokhan,

Do you have time to answer this question?

Sincerely

Sock
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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #69 on: August 31, 2020, 11:18:34 AM »
Why do airplanes need to reach takeoff speed? Why is takeoff speed not zero?
Why would airplanes need a take-off angle if the earth is round? Do they adjust for curvature when flying parallel to the ground?

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JJA

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #70 on: August 31, 2020, 11:29:32 AM »
Why do airplanes need to reach takeoff speed? Why is takeoff speed not zero?
Why would airplanes need a take-off angle if the earth is round? Do they adjust for curvature when flying parallel to the ground?

The shape of the Earth has nothing to do with how an airplane takes off.  It's simple physics.  This stuff is taught in high school.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airfoil


Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #71 on: August 31, 2020, 11:42:42 AM »
Quote
This stuff is taught in high school.
They teach good stuff but not all are correct. I asked "Do pilots adjust for curvature when they fly parallel to the ground"? just like moving jet on the runway


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sokarul

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #72 on: August 31, 2020, 11:50:33 AM »
Why do airplanes need to reach takeoff speed? Why is takeoff speed not zero?
Why would airplanes need a take-off angle if the earth is round? Do they adjust for curvature when flying parallel to the ground?
I didn’t mentions angle. I mentioned takeoff speed.
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JJA

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2020, 12:22:08 PM »
Quote
This stuff is taught in high school.
They teach good stuff but not all are correct. I asked "Do pilots adjust for curvature when they fly parallel to the ground"? just like moving jet on the runway

You asked two questions, I answered one, as the other has been answered many times.  I'll answer it again.

Yes, planes tilt as they follow the curve.  A plane that has gone halfway around the world will have tilted downward 180 degrees.  If it makes it back to where it started it will have tilted a full 360.

Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #74 on: August 31, 2020, 10:31:57 PM »
Why do airplanes need to reach takeoff speed? Why is takeoff speed not zero?
Why would airplanes need a take-off angle if the earth is round? Do they adjust for curvature when flying parallel to the ground?
I didn’t mentions angle. I mentioned takeoff speed.
you asked him a question and i asked you the question related to your question.

Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #75 on: August 31, 2020, 10:32:49 PM »
Quote
This stuff is taught in high school.
They teach good stuff but not all are correct. I asked "Do pilots adjust for curvature when they fly parallel to the ground"? just like moving jet on the runway

You asked two questions, I answered one, as the other has been answered many times.  I'll answer it again.

Yes, planes tilt as they follow the curve.  A plane that has gone halfway around the world will have tilted downward 180 degrees.  If it makes it back to where it started it will have tilted a full 360.
How often in ref to distance?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 11:03:01 PM by E E K »

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JJA

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #76 on: September 01, 2020, 05:48:25 AM »
Quote
This stuff is taught in high school.
They teach good stuff but not all are correct. I asked "Do pilots adjust for curvature when they fly parallel to the ground"? just like moving jet on the runway

You asked two questions, I answered one, as the other has been answered many times.  I'll answer it again.

Yes, planes tilt as they follow the curve.  A plane that has gone halfway around the world will have tilted downward 180 degrees.  If it makes it back to where it started it will have tilted a full 360.
How often in ref to distance?

1 degree every 70 miles.

Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #77 on: September 01, 2020, 06:59:16 AM »
Quote
This stuff is taught in high school.
They teach good stuff but not all are correct. I asked "Do pilots adjust for curvature when they fly parallel to the ground"? just like moving jet on the runway

You asked two questions, I answered one, as the other has been answered many times.  I'll answer it again.

Yes, planes tilt as they follow the curve.  A plane that has gone halfway around the world will have tilted downward 180 degrees.  If it makes it back to where it started it will have tilted a full 360.
How often in ref to distance?

1 degree every 70 miles.
Ref pls.

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sokarul

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #78 on: September 01, 2020, 07:17:41 AM »
Why do airplanes need to reach takeoff speed? Why is takeoff speed not zero?
Why would airplanes need a take-off angle if the earth is round? Do they adjust for curvature when flying parallel to the ground?
I didn’t mentions angle. I mentioned takeoff speed.
you asked him a question and i asked you the question related to your question.

Oh

If an airplane doesn’t lift of the ground it will not leave the ground.

Hope that answers your question.
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JJA

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #79 on: September 01, 2020, 09:28:23 AM »
Quote
This stuff is taught in high school.
They teach good stuff but not all are correct. I asked "Do pilots adjust for curvature when they fly parallel to the ground"? just like moving jet on the runway

You asked two questions, I answered one, as the other has been answered many times.  I'll answer it again.

Yes, planes tilt as they follow the curve.  A plane that has gone halfway around the world will have tilted downward 180 degrees.  If it makes it back to where it started it will have tilted a full 360.
How often in ref to distance?

1 degree every 70 miles.
Ref pls.

If you want the math, here you go.

Diameter of the Earth: 8,000 mi
Circumference of Earth: 8,000 x 3.14159 = 25132.7
Degrees in a Circle: 360

25132.7 / 360 = 69.8

So about every 70 miles you have to tilt down 1 degree.

Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #80 on: September 02, 2020, 02:34:13 AM »
It seems I am late to the party, but as you invited me in from another thread, I will try to respond summing it all up.

In many ways, this is quite analogous to electrostatic interactions.
The force between 2 charged particles is given by F=kQq/d^2.
But you can easily describe the nature of the elctric field around a single particle.

That is given by E (noting this is to denote the field, not an energy):
E=kQ/d^2.

This field exists even when you only have one particle.
It generates a force on another charged particle as:
F=qE.

Then the acceleration is given as a=(q/m)*E.

The same can be done with gravity, noting that "q" for gravity is m.

Using this method for gravity, there is clearly a force, even if you want to jump straight to the acceleration, skipping the force.
You could do the same with electrostatics. a=kQq/mr^2.
That doesn't mean no force is involved or that a charged particle can accelerate other charged particles without a force.

The fact that gravitational mass and inertial mass is always observed to be the same was one of the big puzzles about gravity (and still is to some extent).
However it was mostly addressed by relativity which has gravity not actually being a force and instead having it be the curvature of space time.

A mass (or energy density) would bend spacetime with the extent of curvature depending on mass/energy density and the distance to the object.
Then, anything else would merely follow the curvature of spacetime in an inertial path.
In this model, there is no real force, and instead you have an inertial force.

how do they bend space-time at such a large scale as quoted when atomic particles don’t have the ability of bend space-time unless in a collection?
They can bend space time. Everything can.
It is just a single atom all by itself will curve it by an insignificant amount.
But if you have a massive amount of these, those insignificant amounts build up.

It is like if you had a container with absolutely nothing in it, and put it a single molecule of water, that is still basically nothing in it. But but in a massive amount and you end up with a container full of water.

Then why don t you consider these slight distortion of space-time individually instead of taking a celestial body as a whole. it will limit the bending of space time to the actual size of celestial body.
Because doing it all at once is a much simpler calculation.
What would you rather do, a single calculation or roughly 10^50 of them (for Earth)?

It will not limit it to the edge of the body.

Even a tiny mass bends spacetime extremely far away. It is just that it bends it by an extremely tiny amount.


As for your energy equations, you can't just take completely different energy equations and equate them like that.
They are fundamentally different equations, with different meanings.

The full equation would be more like E=rest energy + kinetic energy + potential energy.
Where potential energy is in turn composed of gravitational potential energy, electrostatic potential energy and so on.
If you want to do it from the individual components, then you also throw in binding energy.
All you are doing is converting it from energy to specific energy.

I asked "Do pilots adjust for curvature when they fly parallel to the ground"? just like moving jet on the runway
They do so automatically by maintaining altitude.
They need to adjust their attitude to be able to maintain their altitude.
There is no specific requirement to adjust specifically for the curve as it is already taken care of.

Re: Role gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #81 on: September 02, 2020, 02:35:06 AM »
W=mg, which is a flat earth equation
No, it is a simplification, based upon the assumption that the value of g varies insignificantly for the object.
It isn't a flat Earth equation as g is not a constant but varies as you move around Earth (and change altitude).

Mass is what bends space-time
Cut the crap you troll.
General Relativity remains just a description of the force we call gravity. It leaves unanswered the key question of exactly how matter affects space and time.
Yes, it doesn't describe how matter bends spacetime, just that it does, and the results of it doing so.

The B-2 bomber flies using the Biefeld-Brown effect.
Are you sure it isn't using the wings for aerodynamic lift, along with engines to provide thrust?
That sure seems more likely.
Especially considering it isn't just magical anti-gravity and instead the wings produce a force roughly perpendicular to them called lift, which is dependent upon the velocity of the wing, so a plane can't just fly straight up.

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sokarul

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #82 on: September 02, 2020, 06:57:54 AM »
With is continual refusal to answer simple questions I think it’s safe to throw sandokhan’s arguments in a trash can.
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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #83 on: September 02, 2020, 10:41:20 AM »
Quote
In many ways, this is quite analogous to electrostatic interactions.
One word – not impressive! Although its very clear but I’m writing again. I would suggest reading the posts carefully again and again not just you – no rude at all as it is not about the win or loss. 

G is the proportionality constant. It depends upon the force b/w 2 masses and the square of o/c distance b/t them as F =Gm1m2/d^2 =mg where g = Gm1/d^2,

Considering “g” separately from force F as g = Gm1/d^2, means G is considered separately from force F which is impossible. Therefore I would say “G” is wrongly placed in g=GM/d^2.

Two objects are must for the presence of gravitational force “F” [F=GMm/d^2, where g=GM/d^2] and gravitational constant “G”. Gravitational force “F“ should generate gravitational acceleration “g” but “g” which is equal to GM/d^2 independent of second mass (falling mass) and gravitational force “F”. 

As said, gravitational constant “G” is wrongly placed in g=GM/d^2 as explained above.

If you say, “there is clearly a force” then there is clearly a second mass (falling one) as well. Then all objects do not fall at the same rate.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 11:03:26 AM by E E K »

Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #84 on: September 02, 2020, 02:07:50 PM »
G is the proportionality constant. It depends upon the force b/w 2 masses and the square of o/c distance b/t them as F =Gm1m2/d^2 =mg where g = Gm1/d^2
It doesn't depend on the force, it determines it.

If you say, “there is clearly a force” then there is clearly a second mass (falling one) as well. Then all objects do not fall at the same rate.
No. There being a force doesn't mean that all objects don't fall at the same rate.

Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #85 on: September 02, 2020, 11:08:33 PM »
G is the proportionality constant. It depends upon the force b/w 2 masses and the square of o/c distance b/t them as F =Gm1m2/d^2 =mg where g = Gm1/d^2
It doesn't depend on the force, it determines it.
So how does force F is determine from G=gd^2/M?

Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #86 on: September 03, 2020, 01:42:23 AM »
So how does force F is determine from G=gd^2/M?
F=GMm/d^2.
i.e. the force is dependent upon G.

Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #87 on: September 03, 2020, 04:42:25 AM »
So how does force F is determine from G=gd^2/M?
F=GMm/d^2.
i.e. the force is dependent upon G.
So you unable to determine F from G=gd^2/M - Right?

Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #88 on: September 03, 2020, 04:55:50 AM »
So how does force F is determine from G=gd^2/M?
F=GMm/d^2.
i.e. the force is dependent upon G.
So you unable to determine F from G=gd^2/M - Right?
No, I provided how.
G is used to calculate the force.
The equation used is F=GMm/d^2.

That is determining the force from G.

The force is not just dependent upon G, just like the force in electrostatic interactions is not just dependent upon k.

G is a constant. While you can determine its value from equations it appears in from experimental results, that in no way negates it being used to determine the force.

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sokarul

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #89 on: September 03, 2020, 05:55:16 AM »
I’m still wanting to make a real post but until then, is it just me or is it supposed to be r2 not d2?
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