Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2020, 09:39:19 PM »
So now electrons exist?
May be  or may be not because I don't understand why was the mass of every electron created exactly the same when there were chances of more than one type by the natural selection in random during the early stages of the universe in chaos/ big bang?

Mass of one electron = 9.10938356 × 10-31 kg
Other type could have = 8.10938356 × 10-30 kg – this is just an example
it could have zillion types of masses (Ranges in Kg)

The same is applied to all atomic particles, not just electron.
An electron is an elementary particle. It came about due to physics, which would be due to the properties of energy. You are making it out to be more complex than it is.

The properties of energy will answer your problems.
I’m not making it more complex but I'm talking about the availability of chances in early stages of the big bang if natural selection  had availed in selecting of different masses of each type of atomic particle.

Just a proton is about 1835 times more massive than an electron. So imagine how many electron proton and neutron could have been created in between the range of 1 and 1835 or 9.10938356 × 10-31 kg  and 1835 x 9.10938356 × 10-31 kg . with separate charges.  (Neutron has no charge)

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sandokhan

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2020, 09:42:22 PM »
In both theories, the end result is masses move toward each other.

No.

What you have are two hypotheses: 1. gravity is attractive and 2. matter interacts with spacetime.

There are no PROOFS for either hypothesis.

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sokarul

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2020, 09:46:03 PM »
There is evidence.(evidence is the correct word)
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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2020, 10:06:05 PM »
There is evidence.(evidence is the correct word)
There is no such instruments which can either see or measure space-time. So what do you mean by evidence?

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Pezevenk

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2020, 03:09:23 AM »
So now electrons exist?
May be  or may be not because I don't understand why was the mass of every electron created exactly the same when there were chances of more than one type by the natural selection in random during the early stages of the universe in chaos/ big bang?

Mass of one electron = 9.10938356 × 10-31 kg
Other type could have = 8.10938356 × 10-30 kg – this is just an example
it could have zillion types of masses (Ranges in Kg)

The same is applied to all atomic particles, not just electron.

This one is easy. The standard model doesn't predict electrons with differing masses.

But more importantly, in all the experiments and atom smashing and evidence and data that has been collected... we never found an electron with a different mass.

We do not know WHY that is so, but there is no evidence or data to suggest otherwise.

If the LHC starts spitting out electrons with twice their weight, well that will be exiting and interesting and then you can be right. But until the, there is no proof, nor any hints that they exist.

There are electrons with different masses! They are called muons and tauons and they aren't electrons  ;)
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JJA

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2020, 03:53:31 AM »
There is evidence.(evidence is the correct word)
There is no such instruments which can either see or measure space-time. So what do you mean by evidence?

Off the top of my head, we have extremely sensitive gravimeters that show differing levels of gravitational acceleration at different altitudes.

We have seen that the Sun bends light that passes very close to it.

We have detected gravitational waves.

Spacetime will be dragged and pulled along with a spinning object, we have measured this effect.

All of this evidence, and more shows that the universe behaves as the theory of space-time predicts.

There is a massive amount of evidence backing up Einsteins theories.

It's not proof of course, science doesn't deal in proof, but there is a LOT of evidence out there.  It's one of the most studied and experimentally validated theories in existence. You could easily spend days just reading about all the basic experiments and evidence for it, and a lifetime to read and understand all of it.

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sandokhan

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2020, 04:18:58 AM »
We have detected gravitational waves.

Spacetime will be dragged and pulled along with a spinning object, we have measured this effect.


Get your act together.

ONLY the MODIFIED repulsive gravitation Einstein equations can detect gravitational waves (binary pulsars), NOT the original Einstein equations which do not have a dynamical bounded solution:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2229278#msg2229278

Aether frame dragging:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1911878#msg1911878

Modern science accepts the existence of dark matter and dark energy (which have not been detected, so say mainstream scientists), yet it rejects ether and aether which have been detected by various experiments.

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sandokhan

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sokarul

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2020, 04:59:49 AM »
There is evidence.(evidence is the correct word)
There is no such instruments which can either see or measure space-time. So what do you mean by evidence?
Experiments have been performed.
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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2020, 07:37:55 AM »
Quote
We have seen that the Sun bends light that passes very close to it.
All matter is composed of atoms. Nuclei are about 100,000 times smaller than the atoms they’re housed in.  Since Atoms are the building blocks of matter therefore it is said the human body is almost empty spaces (99.99999%). If this is true then aren’t all these celestial bodies are also almost empty spaces as well if yes then how do they bend space-time at such a large scale as quoted when atomic particles don’t have the ability of bend space-time unless in a collection?

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JJA

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2020, 08:00:57 AM »
Quote
We have seen that the Sun bends light that passes very close to it.
All matter is composed of atoms. Nuclei are about 100,000 times smaller than the atoms they’re housed in.  Since Atoms are the building blocks of matter therefore it is said the human body is almost empty spaces (99.99999%). If this is true then aren’t all these celestial bodies are also almost empty spaces as well if yes then how do they bend space-time at such a large scale as quoted when atomic particles don’t have the ability of bend space-time unless in a collection?

Because it doesn't matter.

What weighs more, ten 1 pound iron balls or one 10 pound iron ball? Same mass, different forms.

What's heavier, a pound of feathers or a pound of lead? Same answer.

Mass is what bends space-time, it doesn't matter if you poke holes in it, squish it, or perforate it.  It still has the same mass.

You are also wrong that atomic particles can't bend space-time. They can, they just bend it VERY VERY VERY slightly. Thats why we use the Sun to measure such experiments, it's mass is big enough for our puny human machines to measure. If we had Godlike powers we could see spacetime being bent by a single atom, but we do not. Yet.

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sandokhan

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2020, 08:10:35 AM »
Mass is what bends space-time

Cut the crap you troll.

Dr. Erik Verlinde (2019):

General Relativity remains just a description of the force we call gravity. It leaves unanswered the key question of exactly how matter affects space and time.


Provide the mechanism by which mass bends spacetime.

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sokarul

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2020, 09:18:48 AM »
This might help your understanding.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress–energy_tensor
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sandokhan

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2020, 09:46:30 AM »

Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2020, 10:16:16 AM »
Quote
You are also wrong that atomic particles can't bend space-time. They can, they just bend it VERY VERY VERY slightly
Then why don t you consider these slight distortion of space-time individually instead of taking a celestial body as a whole. it will limit the bending of space time to the actual size of celestial body.

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JJA

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2020, 11:35:36 AM »
Quote
You are also wrong that atomic particles can't bend space-time. They can, they just bend it VERY VERY VERY slightly
Then why don t you consider these slight distortion of space-time individually instead of taking a celestial body as a whole. it will limit the bending of space time to the actual size of celestial body.

If you put two one-pound weights on a scale, what will it read?

You can certainly calculate the bending of light by the Sun using every individual atom that makes up the sun if you want, and have a very long time to run the calculations. It's much simpler, and just as accurate to calculate it using the Sun's entire mass at once. You get the same answer either way.

Each atom bends things a little, but put enough atoms together and it bends space-time a lot.

The Sun isn't limited to the effect of just one single atom, just as you are not limited in what you can do by how much a single atom can manage.

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sokarul

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2020, 11:39:19 AM »
Here is the correct stress-energy tensor equation:

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/d92d/7f8b7771e0e3c4df0a25b712d7de2274ed59.pdf

One paper from a phd candidate is not an end all.
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sandokhan

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #47 on: August 28, 2020, 11:51:04 AM »
Dr. C.Y. Lo has two PhDs, physics and mathematics.

"When Einstein received a Nobel Prize (1922) for great achievements in Physics, there was a special note saying that the prize was given “without taking into account ... relativity and gravitational theories”". That is because the chairman of the Nobel prize committee, A. Gullstrand, found out that the Einstein equations do not have a bounded dynamical solution.

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sokarul

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2020, 12:28:08 PM »
Or it was for the photo electric effect.

If he has two phds why did he simplify E=mc2?

Anyways still doesn’t make a paper an absolute. And of course most of the paper is incompatible with what you claim. Further more, I don’t care. You asked a question and I provided some info.
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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2020, 09:42:46 PM »
Quote
You get the same answer either way.
The bending of the space-time is outward if the whole mass of earth is considered.

The bending of the space-time is inside the whole mass of earth (99% empty as explained) if the mass of the each individual atomic particle is considered.
Quote
If he has two phds why did he simplify E=mc2?
K.E = 0.5 mv^2
P.E= mgh
E =mc^2

Now
E = mgh=mc^2
"m" cancel out; 
We get  gh=c^2 ----- Eq 1

Similarly, 0.5mv^2 = mc^2
"m" cancel out;
we get 0.5v^2=c^2  ….. Eq 2

What is the meaning of Eq 1 and eq 2

Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #50 on: August 29, 2020, 03:22:51 AM »
Quote
You get the same answer either way.
The bending of the space-time is outward if the whole mass of earth is considered.

The bending of the space-time is inside the whole mass of earth (99% empty as explained) if the mass of the each individual atomic particle is considered.
Quote
If he has two phds why did he simplify E=mc2?
K.E = 0.5 mv^2
P.E= mgh
E =mc^2

Now
E = mgh=mc^2
"m" cancel out; 
We get  gh=c^2 ----- Eq 1

Similarly, 0.5mv^2 = mc^2
"m" cancel out;
we get 0.5v^2=c^2  ….. Eq 2

What is the meaning of Eq 1 and eq 2

No meaning at all.

The E in E=mc^2 is the energy that would be released if you  completely annihilate a mass.

It has nothing to do with gravitational potential energy or kinetic energy for a given situation.

You’ve just slapped some equations together randomly and got total nonsense.

Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2020, 04:27:32 AM »
Quote
You get the same answer either way.
The bending of the space-time is outward if the whole mass of earth is considered.

The bending of the space-time is inside the whole mass of earth (99% empty as explained) if the mass of the each individual atomic particle is considered.
Quote
If he has two phds why did he simplify E=mc2?
K.E = 0.5 mv^2
P.E= mgh
E =mc^2

Now
E = mgh=mc^2
"m" cancel out; 
We get  gh=c^2 ----- Eq 1

Similarly, 0.5mv^2 = mc^2
"m" cancel out;
we get 0.5v^2=c^2  ….. Eq 2

What is the meaning of Eq 1 and eq 2

No meaning at all.

The E in E=mc^2 is the energy that would be released if you  completely annihilate a mass.

It has nothing to do with gravitational potential energy or kinetic energy for a given situation.

You’ve just slapped some equations together randomly and got total nonsense.
Do you know what energy is?

All (above) three are ENERGY equations.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2020, 04:41:54 AM by E E K »

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JJA

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #52 on: August 29, 2020, 05:01:52 AM »
Quote
You get the same answer either way.
The bending of the space-time is outward if the whole mass of earth is considered.

The bending of the space-time is inside the whole mass of earth (99% empty as explained) if the mass of the each individual atomic particle is considered.

What do you mean space-time is bending outward?

Again, consider a one pound piece of lead and a one pound piece of foam. Which is heavier? One is mostly empty space, the other is very dense.

Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #53 on: August 29, 2020, 05:58:18 AM »
Quote
You get the same answer either way.
The bending of the space-time is outward if the whole mass of earth is considered.

The bending of the space-time is inside the whole mass of earth (99% empty as explained) if the mass of the each individual atomic particle is considered.

What do you mean space-time is bending outward?

Again, consider a one pound piece of lead and a one pound piece of foam. Which is heavier? One is mostly empty space, the other is very dense.
If you consider the mass as a whole then the bending of the space time happens outside the whole mass.
if you consider the masses of all atomic particles individually of the whole mass as then the bending of the space time happens within the wholw mass not outside the whole mass

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JJA

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #54 on: August 29, 2020, 06:04:51 AM »
Quote
You get the same answer either way.
The bending of the space-time is outward if the whole mass of earth is considered.

The bending of the space-time is inside the whole mass of earth (99% empty as explained) if the mass of the each individual atomic particle is considered.

What do you mean space-time is bending outward?

Again, consider a one pound piece of lead and a one pound piece of foam. Which is heavier? One is mostly empty space, the other is very dense.
If you consider the mass as a whole then the bending of the space time happens outside the whole mass.
if you consider the masses of all atomic particles individually of the whole mass as then the bending of the space time happens within the wholw mass not outside the whole mass

Why would this be?

Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #55 on: August 29, 2020, 06:33:51 AM »
Do you know what energy is?

All (above) three are ENERGY equations.

No shit, Sherlock.

That doesn’t change the fact that you are using them wrong.

Your equations would only be valid, if you were converting one type of energy into another.  You can do this with kinetic energy and potential energy for example when you drop something.  You can work out the potential energy difference between two heights and that gives you the kinetic energy gained over that distance.  Although if you drop through a medium like air, there will also be some energy loss from drag.

But when you drop something, you don’t convert any of the mass into energy, do you?  So why do you think Einstein’s equation is relevant? 

That’s twice in this thread where you’ve lashed out at my attempts to explain by patronising me.  Well, allow me to respond in kind.

BAD NEWS, SUNSHINE.  The ability to look up equations on Google does not equal knowing how to apply them in any meaningful way.    You apparently think your TINY and completely INADEQUATE level of knowledge on the subject is superior to all the physicists and engineers who bothered to actually study this, because of course you do.

I don’t suppose it’s ever occurred to you that you could have spent the time it takes writing your LAUGHABLE NONSENSE doing some basic mechanics tutorials, and you’d probably understand where you’re going wrong by now?

But no, I expect you’ll carry on declaring you’ve found a fatal flaw in ABSOLUTELY FUNDAMENTAL  mechanics that has somehow been missed by everyone who has used these equations to build all the technology you take for granted over the last few hundred years.

LOL
« Last Edit: August 29, 2020, 06:37:09 AM by Unconvinced »

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sokarul

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #56 on: August 29, 2020, 07:03:24 AM »
Quote
You get the same answer either way.
The bending of the space-time is outward if the whole mass of earth is considered.

The bending of the space-time is inside the whole mass of earth (99% empty as explained) if the mass of the each individual atomic particle is considered.
Quote
If he has two phds why did he simplify E=mc2?
K.E = 0.5 mv^2
P.E= mgh
E =mc^2

Now
E = mgh=mc^2
"m" cancel out; 
We get  gh=c^2 ----- Eq 1

Similarly, 0.5mv^2 = mc^2
"m" cancel out;
we get 0.5v^2=c^2  ….. Eq 2

What is the meaning of Eq 1 and eq 2

No meaning at all.

The E in E=mc^2 is the energy that would be released if you  completely annihilate a mass.

It has nothing to do with gravitational potential energy or kinetic energy for a given situation.

You’ve just slapped some equations together randomly and got total nonsense.
Do you know what energy is?

All (above) three are ENERGY equations.
As pointed out, you are wrong. E=mc2 Is rest mass energy. It’s not the full equation.

What you did was set potential energy equal to kinetic energy. This is incorrect.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2020, 07:12:05 AM by sokarul »
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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #57 on: August 29, 2020, 07:04:49 AM »
Do you know what energy is?

All (above) three are ENERGY equations.

No shit, Sherlock.

That doesn’t change the fact that you are using them wrong.

Your equations would only be valid, if you were converting one type of energy into another.  You can do this with kinetic energy and potential energy for example when you drop something.  You can work out the potential energy difference between two heights and that gives you the kinetic energy gained over that distance.  Although if you drop through a medium like air, there will also be some energy loss from drag.

But when you drop something, you don’t convert any of the mass into energy, do you?  So why do you think Einstein’s equation is relevant? 

That’s twice in this thread where you’ve lashed out at my attempts to explain by patronising me.  Well, allow me to respond in kind.

BAD NEWS, SUNSHINE.  The ability to look up equations on Google does not equal knowing how to apply them in any meaningful way.    You apparently think your TINY and completely INADEQUATE level of knowledge on the subject is superior to all the physicists and engineers who bothered to actually study this, because of course you do.

I don’t suppose it’s ever occurred to you that you could have spent the time it takes writing your LAUGHABLE NONSENSE doing some basic mechanics tutorials, and you’d probably understand where you’re going wrong by now?

But no, I expect you’ll carry on declaring you’ve found a fatal flaw in ABSOLUTELY FUNDAMENTAL  mechanics that has somehow been missed by everyone who has used these equations to build all the technology you take for granted over the last few hundred years.

LOL
B3

Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #58 on: August 29, 2020, 07:45:29 AM »

B3

That’s better.  Always best to stick to something your own level.  Internet slang seems about right.

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sandokhan

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Re: Role of gravitational force F=GMm/d^2 b/t two objects?
« Reply #59 on: August 29, 2020, 08:13:42 AM »
ABSOLUTELY FUNDAMENTAL  mechanics that has somehow been missed by everyone who has used these equations to build all the technology you take for granted over the last few hundred years.

Cut the crap.

The jet engine was invented by Viktor Schauberger, using ether theory.

The B-2 bomber flies using the Biefeld-Brown effect.