Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture

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wise

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Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« on: August 05, 2020, 02:11:50 AM »
While there is an allergy to the name of the Hitler and other genocider murderers in Western civilization, there is sympathy for the name Vlad.

We see the hero Vlad The Impelar in many games and movies in the name of Kont Drakula.













And so on...

In movies, he kills people, drinks his blood and makes them monstrous. He is both terrorist and desired, handsome one. In this respect, it is told to the viewers as a hero.

Was it really so in history? He is known as Vlad The Impelar in some countries and some calls him as Vlad Tepes.

This is the real character of him. I want to tell you a bit about him.

This is his real face:



Not seemingly a handsome one, right?

This is her ordinary lunch. When he was hitting people to pikes and on the other hand while eating some of their pieces. Is this fun? I do not think so. Certainly not fun for the dead. If you are one of those who kill, you must be a mental patient to enjoy this. It is not enough to be a little mentally ill, it is necessary to be seriously mentally ill to get fun of this.


[/img]



With the face we see and know from the following picture, as far as we understand, he killed and cut not only Muslims but also Christians.



Here is the question I would like to ask you;

Why, while other bad characters -like Hitler- are facing a big reaction in the west, but one of the wildest people to come to this world can be cute and used as a hero in movies and games. How can this happen?

I wish those who protect this content to live long.


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Bullwinkle

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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2020, 02:43:01 AM »
If it didn't happen in the USofA it doesn't matter. 

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wise

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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2020, 02:52:26 AM »
So being an American means having not a human emotions for others, right?


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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2020, 03:56:05 AM »
Count Dracula is a fictional invention of Bram Stoker, originally to be called Count Wampyr.  It's highly debatable how much Stoker was even aware of Vlad the Impaler let alone based the character on them.

In the 120 years since it was written lots of different versions of Dracula have appeared, including comedy and child friendly ones.  Kids don't dress up as vampires on Halloween thinking "This is fun, lets go impale some Turks" - it has nothing to do with the Romanian warlord from 600 years ago.
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wise

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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2020, 04:03:29 AM »
Count Dracula is a fictional invention of Bram Stoker, originally to be called Count Wampyr.  It's highly debatable how much Stoker was even aware of Vlad the Impaler let alone based the character on them.

In the 120 years since it was written lots of different versions of Dracula have appeared, including comedy and child friendly ones.  Kids don't dress up as vampires on Halloween thinking "This is fun, lets go impale some Turks" - it has nothing to do with the Romanian warlord from 600 years ago.
Count Dracula is not a fictional character. If you search for Count Drakula you find the sources mostly about Vlad The Impelar. According to your talkings, So Europeans can create an "Adolf" character and make people soap on movies and get fun of it, right? That is a sick mentality need to be changed. Before you change it, your country can not change, and continues to support terrorism. And those terrorists kill your own a day.



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wise

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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2020, 04:18:23 AM »
Vlad Tepes' /Vlad The Impelar's father's name is Vlad Dracula. Dracula is the lineage of the dragon or the devil. This is a name given to the king by the German knight community fighting against Islam (and of course the Ottoman). Tepes was mentioned as Count Vlad Dracul as his father's son.


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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2020, 06:00:13 AM »
The fact that Stoker's notes are no longer hidden away means there is at least some information about how he came up with the name.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/no-bram-stoker-did-not-model-dracula-on-vlad-the-impal-1648969679

Relevant excerpt (the whole article is pretty informative with regards to where the Vlad the Impaler idea came from, too):
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While in Whitby in the summer of 1890 (after, it should be noted, his much-discussed dinner with Vambery), Stoker came across a copy of William Wilkinson's book An Account of the Principalities of Wallachia and Moldavia. We know that, because he copied sections of the book into his notes. Wilkinson's book contains references to multiple voivodes named Dracula, and some of the sparse details on one such Voivode Dracula make it into Stoker's text: that he crossed the Danube to attack Turkish troops and had some success. That's it. There is no reference to a "Vlad," no mention of a nickname Tepes or "the Impaler," no detailing of his legendary atrocities.

So why did Stoker choose that name, Dracula? Well, we can infer that from his own notes. He copied information from a footnote from Wilkinson's book that read in his own notes, "DRACULA in Wallachian language means DEVIL," with those capital letters. The footnote explained that Wallachians gave the name "Dracula" to people who were especially courageous, cruel, or cunning. Stoker chose the name, it appears, because of its devilish associations, not because of the history and legends attached to its owner.

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wise

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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2020, 06:25:56 AM »
Come on, he has same story. How can it be a chance both attacks Turkish troops? Why do both have problem with Turks? Both of them are Dracula, but it means evil, okay. How many Dracula did you ever heard? John Dracula, Jack Dracula, huh? Did you know any of them? Come on. Although this does not clearly state her name, it is clear that she was inspired by Vlad. In addition, in many games and films, the name of Vlad is used directly in the vampire character instead of Count Dracula.

You have just defend this ugliness because you want it continues. Then I ask you. Now if I write a book and talk about someone named Adolf who produces soap, what would you do? Would you like it? Oh, it's just a coincidence, right? And he killed some Jews he had problems with. And also if I describe him like a hero. Would this be a stylish thing?

Aside from the banning of the book here, oppositely we see that Count Dracula is described as a hero in many places. He takes it from the rich like a Robin Hood and gives it to the poor. What is he doing? It kills the Turks. Oh, great! What a grateful hero!


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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2020, 06:47:40 AM »
Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, why believe what Bram Stoker himself had to say about it when the musings from people philosophizing about it decades ago are so much more fun? I get that. But the thing is, Bram Stoker's own words are a better source for trying to understand how the story was developed that said musings.

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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2020, 07:30:53 AM »

Stoker based much of the story on the John Polidori novel spawned at the same time and contest as Shelley’s Frankenstein, and released under Lord Byron’s name, called The Vampyre, and likely got his history from a brief friendship with Armin Vambery a Turkologist and traveller of the east.

Just a gothic story with a suitably gory piece of history attached as background, the history being sufficiently historic, and from a time drenched in blood and mystery certainly not within living memory of anyone at that time, and nowhere on the scale of the Armenian and Nazi holocausts.

Get over it.
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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2020, 10:46:01 AM »
Then I ask you. Now if I write a book and talk about someone named Adolf who produces soap, what would you do?
Well, in 600 years I suspect it won't have the same impact.

But, again, it is Count Dracula is not Vlad the Impaler.   Vlad the Impaler is not considered a hero in Western culture - his name is associated with great cruelty.  Though in reality it wasn't particularly unusual for the time, you should look into what the Ottomans did to their enemies.

Quote
Aside from the banning of the book here, oppositely we see that Count Dracula is described as a hero in many places. He takes it from the rich like a Robin Hood and gives it to the poor.
What?  He is definitely not a Robin Hood hero in the book, he's a monster.

Quote
What is he doing? It kills the Turks. Oh, great! What a grateful hero!
Ottomans, not all of them Turks, many would have been Bulgarian .  And maybe they shouldn't have invaded his territory?

Perhaps you should concern yourself with more recent atrocities, like the genocide of the Armenians?
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wise

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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2020, 02:06:22 PM »
I have already told Armenian supposedly genocide.

During WW there was gang wars between Turks want Ottoman management and Armenians want Russian govern. As a solve Ottoman management has forced them to move today's Armenia. It definitely not a genocide, it was never required.

Using the lobby in west Armenians forced western countries defend that lie. But today this lobby power has been balanced by Turkish lobby. If you pay attention so you can see that Armenian supposedly genocide is not an issue anymore.

Jews are still has a strong lobby in United States. Hence, all the movies support their theories. This does not make their theories true. This is how things work in center of supposedly country of so called freedom. If you have enough lobby power in USA, so you can claim Spanish made a genocide to Martians in Jupiter, you can make people accept it by using both parliament and media power. There are many fool in USA ready to believe such scenarios. Then you can make people agree strong santcions against Spain because of even they raped and genocided Martians in Jupiter.

In our issue, the problem is clear. The western civilization, which considers evoking a genocide as a crime, should be able to show the same sensitivity about Vlad. You need to face your culture offers you terrorists as hero. Since you are unable to face with how they show terrorists as heros, so you can not solve the problems of;

- Why USA created ISIS
- Why USA created Al Qaeda
- Why Laden and Baghdadi are American officers
- Why USA created FETÖ
- Why USA created Boko Haram
- Why USA created Taleban
- Why USA created PKK
- Why USA organized many organizations to make coup in other countries and killed thosands of people in many countries
...
so on.

If you look at the attitudes of the terrorists, there are attitudes that evoke Vlad. They cut people's heads, drink their blood, and even eat their organs. And they do it by boasting. Because this culture was well explained to them. All the US secret service does is triggering the seeded vampire sympathy for people.

What will happen if your attitude continues? The USA is losing power. Look, I'm writing this. Pay attention, Trump says they should not be in Afghanistan and Arab countries. That's right. His problem is that he correctly diagnoses the problem, but fails to continue. Anyway.


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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2020, 02:23:54 PM »
What has any of this got do with Count Dracula?
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2020, 02:39:07 PM »
If Count Chocula is based on Vlad the Impaler, is it still okay to eat?
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JJA

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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2020, 03:14:23 PM »
If Count Chocula is based on Vlad the Impaler, is it still okay to eat?

Not if you want to avoid diabetes.

Do vampires like diabetics? Does their blood taste sweeter due to the elevated sugar?

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Shifter

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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2020, 03:35:26 PM »
So that's what 'The Count' in Seasame Street got up to in his spare time. Damn.... The more ya know

Wise is right though. Western culture has romantised in a way evil POS people such as Vlad.

Hell, we recently changed the name of some mountain ranges called 'King Leopold' because he finally fell out of favour.

When it comes to horrid perverse cruelty, Vlad the impaler was a twisted brand of evil..... And his likeness is on Seasame Street!  :o

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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2020, 04:44:09 PM »
Meh?   I don't see Dracula as a western hero,  he's more of a cartoon caricature of evil.   

The whole vampire thing has morphed over time, and is so far removed from whatever basis it had in real history is long since lost.

Sorry Wise,  swing and a miss this time.
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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2020, 04:51:20 PM »
I would like to take this time to bring up the series Dracula by the same guys that made Sherlock.

I really liked the first 2 episodes. But the final one, good God, I've never seen a series squander its potential in such a spectacular fashion.
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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2020, 06:32:09 PM »
Vampire folklore predates Dracula by at least several hundred years.  Some claim that Lilith may have been the first vampire, but superstitions involving vampires were fairly common during the middle ages and the plague.
https://www.history.com/topics/folklore/vampire-history
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wise

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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2020, 11:47:34 PM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1981/10/29/dracula-as-hero/9ad67658-9146-4be9-a059-5c57330d513a/

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"He was good. He had the voice of Dracula. I expected him to be all made up with blood streaming down his face. . . . I didn't even know there was a real Dracula," said Kim Maher, 13, of Gaithersburg.

Maher's co-host, Lauren Targoff, 13, of Silver Spring, also said she learned a lot from Schellenberger's visit.

The children were most impressed with Schellenberger's expertise on every Dracula film ever made and the gruesome history of Vlad Tepes.

He can relate, for example, the time when the Turks were thinking of invading Romania to force the Islamic religion on all who lived there. Vlad, a devout Christian, impaled thousands of his own people and lined them along the border to scare off the Turks. Not only did the ploy work, it secured for the prince the nickname of "Vlad the Impaler" in the chronicles of history.

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He said he was surprised, however, to learn that the Romanians consider Dracula a great folk hero and frown upon the fictionalized character of Dracula the vampire.

Vampires, after all, are corpses that rise from the dead at night and go around biting young women on the neck so they can suck their blood. They are petrified of crosses and shy away from garlic. The only way to kill a vampire is to drive a stake through its heart. Vampires have no reflection in mirrors, have long claw-like nails and can turn into a bat at any time.

Schellenberger hopes to form branches of the Dracula Society in Montgomery and Prince George's counties and to sponsor a convention where people could view and trade horror films, books and memorabilia.

An editorial assistant for the Social Security Administration in Baltimore, Schellenberger spends much of his spare time organizing events for the society's monthly meetings.

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Tomorrow night the Dracula Society of Maryland will hold its biggest event of the year, a Halloween party and awards banquet.

Article belongs to 1981.


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faded mike

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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2020, 12:20:49 AM »
incredibly fdup
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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2020, 05:31:37 AM »
Neat thing about Google. If you go searching for something you want to find, chances are you'll find it. And if you look no further, you can confirm whatever crazy idea enters your head.

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wise

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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2020, 05:42:07 AM »
Neat thing about Google. If you go searching for something you want to find, chances are you'll find it. And if you look no further, you can confirm whatever crazy idea enters your head.
Washington Post is not google, guess.

Moreover, Dracula Society of Maryland is not The Flat Earth Society.


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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2020, 07:11:38 AM »
Neat thing about Google. If you go searching for something you want to find, chances are you'll find it. And if you look no further, you can confirm whatever crazy idea enters your head.
Washington Post is not google, guess.
Oh yeah, sure, but are you expecting me to believe you just bookmarked an article from October 1981 (2 days before Halloween, no less, and they do a puff-piece on Dracula... CRAZY!) without doing a search to find exactly what you were looking for? That seems a little far fetched.

If you are searching for "Dracula and Vlad the Impaler" or anything like that, you're going to find a lot of things linking them, because some people made that the narrative with no real basis for having done so other than they felt that that should be true when Stoker's own journal wasn't available for them to reference. It was that way for decades.

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wise

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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2020, 07:20:44 AM »
Neat thing about Google. If you go searching for something you want to find, chances are you'll find it. And if you look no further, you can confirm whatever crazy idea enters your head.
Washington Post is not google, guess.
Oh yeah, sure, but are you expecting me to believe you just bookmarked an article from October 1981 (2 days before Halloween, no less, and they do a puff-piece on Dracula... CRAZY!) without doing a search to find exactly what you were looking for? That seems a little far fetched.

If you are searching for "Dracula and Vlad the Impaler" or anything like that, you're going to find a lot of things linking them, because some people made that the narrative with no real basis for having done so other than they felt that that should be true when Stoker's own journal wasn't available for them to reference. It was that way for decades.
As explained in the news I gave a link, some of the people, including the society of this name, think they are the same.

They can be scientifically different people, they can be the same person. They are the same for some, they are different for others.

The important thing here is that despite the perception that both people are the same, they are heroized. I also wrote evidence that he was heroized, and this is also in the news.

So I'm going back to the question I asked at first. Why are you not bothered by this situation when an important part of the public thinks these two are the same and you are still trying to put forward scientific theses about they are different people? This is not science, public perception.


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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2020, 10:26:39 AM »
As usual, I've no idea what your point is.

Vlad the Impaler is a 15th century warlord who successfully, and brutally, put down rebellions and defended his lands from the invading Ottomans.  He was a real person, had no magic powers and was, ostensibly, a devout Christian.

Count Dracula is a fictional character invented by Bram Stoker.  A vampire who claimed to be descended from Attila the Hun, has magical powers and an aversion to sunlight and Christian symbols.   He also isn't a good guy, he's a monster.


Also, why are you crying about Vlad killing Turks 600 years ago anyway?  The Ottomans were the aggressors - he was defending his kingdom.  Get over it.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 03:03:13 AM by JimmyTheCrab »
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JJA

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Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2020, 10:50:44 AM »
So that's what 'The Count' in Seasame Street got up to in his spare time. Damn.... The more ya know

Wise is right though. Western culture has romantised in a way evil POS people such as Vlad.

Hell, we recently changed the name of some mountain ranges called 'King Leopold' because he finally fell out of favour.

When it comes to horrid perverse cruelty, Vlad the impaler was a twisted brand of evil..... And his likeness is on Seasame Street!  :o

Vlad's likeness is not on Sesame Street.

Read the thread more carefully, Bram Stoker's own notes tell where he got Dracula from, and it had nothing to do with Vlad.

And every culture romanticizes evil people. It's human nature to be fascinated by extremes of good and evil.

Re: Vlad The Impelar (Kont Dracula) As a Heroe in Western Culture
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2020, 11:30:42 AM »
Whether or not Stoker was aware of Vlad doesn't seem particularly important. The point being made is that Western society is content to play down the atrocities perpetrated by a historical individual, and whether or not Stoker intended the connection, we know it. The people making these movies likely do believe Vlad the Impaler was the inspiration for Dracula. Whether or not Stoker intended it is neither here nor there if the accusation is that these filmmakers and people who do believe it are making light of it. Think of Pepe the Frog or any number of such creations, the originator had no idea of what it would come to mean, but that doesn't mean you're wrong to make certain associations if you see it in use now.

It is an interesting point. Look at Thailand and Nazi imagery.



A monster in one country is no more than an aesthetic to people who are unaware of the crimes committed. In the same way that the filmmakers believe, however falsely, that Dracula and Vlad were meant to be one and the same, they are likely to be just as ignorant as to the cruelties Vlad perpetuated. I don't believe there is any malevolence here, just ignorance, but it is ignorance that should be corrected.