Perseverence

  • 73 Replies
  • 2048 Views
*

Heiwa

  • 8973
  • I have been around a long time.
Re: Perseverence
« Reply #60 on: August 03, 2020, 09:59:21 AM »


Yes, NM asstronuts love craters. I always feel sorry for PhDs working in the Rio Grande gutter.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 41379
Re: Perseverence
« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2020, 10:03:19 AM »
Yes, NM asstronuts love craters. I always feel sorry for PhDs working in the Rio Grande gutter.
Your pity is irrelevant.  You aren't an explorer, so you don't understand what drives exploration.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Heiwa

  • 8973
  • I have been around a long time.
Re: Perseverence
« Reply #62 on: August 03, 2020, 12:16:49 PM »
Yes, NM asstronuts love craters. I always feel sorry for PhDs working in the Rio Grande gutter.
Your pity is irrelevant.  You aren't an explorer, so you don't understand what drives exploration.
I am an explorer and have visited many countries in the world ... in the shipping business. So I concluded early that the space business was just pseudo business. Just empty talk. Like finding out the weather on Mars today or life there a billion years ago. Fantastic business. ROTFL

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 41379
Re: Perseverence
« Reply #63 on: August 03, 2020, 12:37:46 PM »
I am an explorer and have visited many countries in the world ... in the shipping business.
Visiting a country is not the same as exploring a country.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Perseverence
« Reply #64 on: August 03, 2020, 01:00:32 PM »
Like I said, I don't think NASA is evil but like any agency that depends on external funding there is pressure to produce promising results.

I don't doubt they've tried. I think they are gunning for it. I just wont take everything at face value. At least when billions of dollars is riding on it

There is a huge leap between "NASA wants money" and "NASA is faking Mars rovers in a vast multi-country conspiracy at the highest levels of government fooling the entire world perfectly with no traces or evidence."

Thats the jump you are making here.

NASA makes plenty of mistakes, they make plenty of failures.  The Space Shuttle was a massive failure in that it cost far more money than expected and didn't deliver the cheap access to space it promised, was failure prone and pretty much is the reason NASA lost the ability to send people into space.

I guess we just think different things are unlikely.

You don't think NASA can send robots to Mars.

I don't think NASA can fake all those robots.
It is quite easy to fake everything.
The rover works of course but only on Earth.
Then it is loaded on a rocket that takes off and disappears in the sky.
Only a few people at NASA ground control knows that the rocket will never arrive anywhere.
So they report regular progress, etc.
The arrival Mars is 100% Hollywood studio work again with some NASA ground control staff playing their roles. Finally the rover is put on Mars (i.e. Earth) and NASA can show films about it. Etc, etc. Same scenario as for the Apollo 11 trip 1969. What a waste of money.

with all that how many inspections did you fake; why shod I trust you with an inspection, I don't think so.
How many ships had problems after your inspections?
The the universe has no obligation to makes sense to you.
The earth is a globe.

*

Bullwinkle

  • The Elder Ones
  • 19545
  • Standard Idiot
Re: Perseverence
« Reply #65 on: August 03, 2020, 04:33:32 PM »

Why the Americans will land in a crater is not clear to me.

It's the best way to study a crater. 

*

Heiwa

  • 8973
  • I have been around a long time.
Re: Perseverence
« Reply #66 on: August 03, 2020, 09:03:21 PM »
I am an explorer and have visited many countries in the world ... in the shipping business.
Visiting a country is not the same as exploring a country.
Well, I am not a tourist while going around exploring local ships, etc.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 41379
Re: Perseverence
« Reply #67 on: August 04, 2020, 10:15:53 AM »
I am an explorer and have visited many countries in the world ... in the shipping business.
Visiting a country is not the same as exploring a country.
Well, I am not a tourist while going around exploring local ships, etc.
You're not an explorer while fixing ships toilets either.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Heiwa

  • 8973
  • I have been around a long time.
Re: Perseverence
« Reply #68 on: August 04, 2020, 10:56:28 AM »
I am an explorer and have visited many countries in the world ... in the shipping business.
Visiting a country is not the same as exploring a country.
Well, I am not a tourist while going around exploring local ships, etc.
You're not an explorer while fixing ships toilets either.
Well, it was part of the job.
Have you ever had a job?

Re: Perseverence
« Reply #69 on: August 07, 2020, 05:22:55 AM »

It is quite easy to fake everything.

Ha!  That’s what the Fake Spacers always say.  Little or no thought ever seems to go into what it would actually take to fake it.

Quote
The rover works of course but only on Earth. 

Why only on earth?  The rover would have been designed, built and tested for the expected conditions on Mars.  If it couldn’t meet the requirement specs, the scientists and engineers working on the project would know.  Not sure what you think would make it only work on Earth, but whatever. 

This of course applies to every system and subsystem of any spacecraft/probe/lander/rover.  For every single part they’d either need to build it for real, or involve all the relevant people in faking something that still looks credible to everyone not in on it, whilst hiding the real results.  All those people are security risks who could deliberately or inadvertently blow the whole operation.  Easier and safer just to build something to spec.

Quote
Then it is loaded on a rocket that takes off and disappears in the sky.

Oh, the rocket just “disappears into the sky”, does it?  Great detective work there. 

However, building the rockets is much the same situation as with the craft.  Everyone working on the rockets knows exactly what they are and aren’t capable of.  If a rocket couldn’t deliver a specified payload to a specified trajectory everyone would know about it. 

What’s more, the weight, thrust, fuel, etc specs of the rockets are publicly released.  Orbits and trajectories can be calculated by anyone.  Have any Fake Spacers even bothered to check the calculations themselves?  Or is that too much like putting in some actual effort?

Also, spacecraft are tracked by radar and by their transmissions by  other spaces agencies and civilian stations, so that’s a whole load more people who need to be in on it.

Quote
Only a few people at NASA ground control knows that the rocket will never arrive anywhere.

Ridiculous.  As well as maintaining the conspiracy with international agencies, and the suppliers of the rockets and craft, now they need to fake everything internally well enough to fool their own staff of incredibly well qualified and highly skilled staff? 

Those few Illuminati (or whatever) higher ups must be real workhorses, to manage not just all the normal things for running the operation, but also faking everything to fool the majority of their own staff, as well as the rest of the world.  The people they’d have to fool are literally pouring over the data all day every day, and none of them ever spot anything suspicious?

Quote
So they report regular progress, etc.
The arrival Mars is 100% Hollywood studio work again with some NASA ground control staff playing their roles. Finally the rover is put on Mars (i.e. Earth) and NASA can show films about it. Etc, etc.

Sure, sure. 

So as well as faking the engineering effort (or making it for real), faking the telemetry, faking the instrument data, now you’d need to bring in whole teams of “Hollywood” crews, CGI artists, and whatnot for the images and videos to present to the public.  Again, every single one is a security risk. 

Why bother with all of that when it’s easier to at least try to do for real?  Its embarrassing when a mission fails (which they do), but nothing compared to being caught cheating. 

So what’s the sum total of evidence the Fake Spacers have uncovered for half a century of alleged deception (to the best of my knowledge):

A) Number of whistleblowers = 0
B) Number of leaked documents pointing to conspiracy = 0
C) Number of engineers/technicians/scientists working on the projects claiming something didn’t add up in the specs or data = 0
D) Number of technical issues uncovered that’s confirmed by anyone who actually knows what they are talking about = 0
E) Number of scientists who have studied the results or samples who doubt their authenticity = 0

And yet:

F) Number of photos you all think look a bit funny (yet are easily explained) = Lots
G) Amount of personal incredulity = Off the chart

Conclusion:  Fake Spacers have had decades to find some actual evidence and have absolutely nothing.

Quote
Same scenario as for the Apollo 11 trip 1969. What a waste of money.

You’re right about one thing.  It’s as implausible now as it was in 69.  More so in fact as they’d need to maintain the conspiracy started all those years ago. 

*

Heiwa

  • 8973
  • I have been around a long time.
Re: Perseverence
« Reply #70 on: August 07, 2020, 06:26:08 AM »

It is quite easy to fake everything.

Ha!  That’s what the Fake Spacers always say.  Little or no thought ever seems to go into what it would actually take to fake it.

Quote
The rover works of course but only on Earth. 

Why only on earth?  The rover would have been designed, built and tested for the expected conditions on Mars.  If it couldn’t meet the requirement specs, the scientists and engineers working on the project would know.  Not sure what you think would make it only work on Earth, but whatever. 

This of course applies to every system and subsystem of any spacecraft/probe/lander/rover.  For every single part they’d either need to build it for real, or involve all the relevant people in faking something that still looks credible to everyone not in on it, whilst hiding the real results.  All those people are security risks who could deliberately or inadvertently blow the whole operation.  Easier and safer just to build something to spec.

Quote
Then it is loaded on a rocket that takes off and disappears in the sky.

Oh, the rocket just “disappears into the sky”, does it?  Great detective work there. 

However, building the rockets is much the same situation as with the craft.  Everyone working on the rockets knows exactly what they are and aren’t capable of.  If a rocket couldn’t deliver a specified payload to a specified trajectory everyone would know about it. 

What’s more, the weight, thrust, fuel, etc specs of the rockets are publicly released.  Orbits and trajectories can be calculated by anyone.  Have any Fake Spacers even bothered to check the calculations themselves?  Or is that too much like putting in some actual effort?

Also, spacecraft are tracked by radar and by their transmissions by  other spaces agencies and civilian stations, so that’s a whole load more people who need to be in on it.

Quote
Only a few people at NASA ground control knows that the rocket will never arrive anywhere.

Ridiculous.  As well as maintaining the conspiracy with international agencies, and the suppliers of the rockets and craft, now they need to fake everything internally well enough to fool their own staff of incredibly well qualified and highly skilled staff? 

Those few Illuminati (or whatever) higher ups must be real workhorses, to manage not just all the normal things for running the operation, but also faking everything to fool the majority of their own staff, as well as the rest of the world.  The people they’d have to fool are literally pouring over the data all day every day, and none of them ever spot anything suspicious?

Quote
So they report regular progress, etc.
The arrival Mars is 100% Hollywood studio work again with some NASA ground control staff playing their roles. Finally the rover is put on Mars (i.e. Earth) and NASA can show films about it. Etc, etc.

Sure, sure. 

So as well as faking the engineering effort (or making it for real), faking the telemetry, faking the instrument data, now you’d need to bring in whole teams of “Hollywood” crews, CGI artists, and whatnot for the images and videos to present to the public.  Again, every single one is a security risk. 

Why bother with all of that when it’s easier to at least try to do for real?  Its embarrassing when a mission fails (which they do), but nothing compared to being caught cheating. 

So what’s the sum total of evidence the Fake Spacers have uncovered for half a century of alleged deception (to the best of my knowledge):

A) Number of whistleblowers = 0
B) Number of leaked documents pointing to conspiracy = 0
C) Number of engineers/technicians/scientists working on the projects claiming something didn’t add up in the specs or data = 0
D) Number of technical issues uncovered that’s confirmed by anyone who actually knows what they are talking about = 0
E) Number of scientists who have studied the results or samples who doubt their authenticity = 0

And yet:

F) Number of photos you all think look a bit funny (yet are easily explained) = Lots
G) Amount of personal incredulity = Off the chart

Conclusion:  Fake Spacers have had decades to find some actual evidence and have absolutely nothing.

Quote
Same scenario as for the Apollo 11 trip 1969. What a waste of money.

You’re right about one thing.  It’s as implausible now as it was in 69.  More so in fact as they’d need to maintain the conspiracy started all those years ago.

Thanks for clarifying many things. I appreciate it very much.
So the US Perseverence rover + rocket has gone to Mars and will arrive there after a 200+ days orbit trajectory in space. Upon arrival Mars gravity attracts rover + rocket! They will drop down on Mars. But how?
On Earth US space crafts drop into oceans full of water and USN pick them up. But on Mars there are no oceans or US Navies so how to land? Drop straight on the ground? Is the rover designed for it? I know Mars gravity is weaker than Earth's but dropping something on Mars from space normally creates a crater = hole in the ground = nothing else.
Assuming the rover arrives safely without creating a crater, it will then drive around and look for life and check the weather and report back to base/Earth. And then? What to do with the data?
Do you know any PhD expert on Earth capable to make any sense of such data from Mars?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 06:36:48 AM by Heiwa »

*

Stash

  • 7311
Re: Perseverence
« Reply #71 on: August 07, 2020, 07:26:27 AM »

It is quite easy to fake everything.

Ha!  That’s what the Fake Spacers always say.  Little or no thought ever seems to go into what it would actually take to fake it.

Quote
The rover works of course but only on Earth. 

Why only on earth?  The rover would have been designed, built and tested for the expected conditions on Mars.  If it couldn’t meet the requirement specs, the scientists and engineers working on the project would know.  Not sure what you think would make it only work on Earth, but whatever. 

This of course applies to every system and subsystem of any spacecraft/probe/lander/rover.  For every single part they’d either need to build it for real, or involve all the relevant people in faking something that still looks credible to everyone not in on it, whilst hiding the real results.  All those people are security risks who could deliberately or inadvertently blow the whole operation.  Easier and safer just to build something to spec.

Quote
Then it is loaded on a rocket that takes off and disappears in the sky.

Oh, the rocket just “disappears into the sky”, does it?  Great detective work there. 

However, building the rockets is much the same situation as with the craft.  Everyone working on the rockets knows exactly what they are and aren’t capable of.  If a rocket couldn’t deliver a specified payload to a specified trajectory everyone would know about it. 

What’s more, the weight, thrust, fuel, etc specs of the rockets are publicly released.  Orbits and trajectories can be calculated by anyone.  Have any Fake Spacers even bothered to check the calculations themselves?  Or is that too much like putting in some actual effort?

Also, spacecraft are tracked by radar and by their transmissions by  other spaces agencies and civilian stations, so that’s a whole load more people who need to be in on it.

Quote
Only a few people at NASA ground control knows that the rocket will never arrive anywhere.

Ridiculous.  As well as maintaining the conspiracy with international agencies, and the suppliers of the rockets and craft, now they need to fake everything internally well enough to fool their own staff of incredibly well qualified and highly skilled staff? 

Those few Illuminati (or whatever) higher ups must be real workhorses, to manage not just all the normal things for running the operation, but also faking everything to fool the majority of their own staff, as well as the rest of the world.  The people they’d have to fool are literally pouring over the data all day every day, and none of them ever spot anything suspicious?

Quote
So they report regular progress, etc.
The arrival Mars is 100% Hollywood studio work again with some NASA ground control staff playing their roles. Finally the rover is put on Mars (i.e. Earth) and NASA can show films about it. Etc, etc.

Sure, sure. 

So as well as faking the engineering effort (or making it for real), faking the telemetry, faking the instrument data, now you’d need to bring in whole teams of “Hollywood” crews, CGI artists, and whatnot for the images and videos to present to the public.  Again, every single one is a security risk. 

Why bother with all of that when it’s easier to at least try to do for real?  Its embarrassing when a mission fails (which they do), but nothing compared to being caught cheating. 

So what’s the sum total of evidence the Fake Spacers have uncovered for half a century of alleged deception (to the best of my knowledge):

A) Number of whistleblowers = 0
B) Number of leaked documents pointing to conspiracy = 0
C) Number of engineers/technicians/scientists working on the projects claiming something didn’t add up in the specs or data = 0
D) Number of technical issues uncovered that’s confirmed by anyone who actually knows what they are talking about = 0
E) Number of scientists who have studied the results or samples who doubt their authenticity = 0

And yet:

F) Number of photos you all think look a bit funny (yet are easily explained) = Lots
G) Amount of personal incredulity = Off the chart

Conclusion:  Fake Spacers have had decades to find some actual evidence and have absolutely nothing.

Quote
Same scenario as for the Apollo 11 trip 1969. What a waste of money.

You’re right about one thing.  It’s as implausible now as it was in 69.  More so in fact as they’d need to maintain the conspiracy started all those years ago.

Thanks for clarifying many things. I appreciate it very much.
So the US Perseverence rover + rocket has gone to Mars and will arrive there after a 200+ days orbit trajectory in space. Upon arrival Mars gravity attracts rover + rocket! They will drop down on Mars. But how?

I presume you have the same access to the internet that I do. Look it up. There are a million documents, images, videos that show exactly how.

On Earth US space crafts drop into oceans full of water and USN pick them up. But on Mars there are no oceans or US Navies so how to land? Drop straight on the ground?

Russia's Soyuz drops on the ground.

Is the rover designed for it? I know Mars gravity is weaker than Earth's but dropping something on Mars from space normally creates a crater = hole in the ground = nothing else.

I presume you have the same access to the internet that I do. Look it up. There are a million documents, images, videos that show exactly how.

Assuming the rover arrives safely without creating a crater, it will then drive around and look for life and check the weather and report back to base/Earth. And then? What to do with the data?
Do you know any PhD expert on Earth capable to make any sense of such data from Mars?

Are you just patently against exploration, science...progress of any kind? Just because you don't know how to analyze data means that no one else does? So if you don't understand something or don't know how to do something you're convinced that no one else on the planet possibly could? What's wrong with you?

*

Heiwa

  • 8973
  • I have been around a long time.
Re: Perseverence
« Reply #72 on: August 07, 2020, 07:35:38 AM »

It is quite easy to fake everything.

Ha!  That’s what the Fake Spacers always say.  Little or no thought ever seems to go into what it would actually take to fake it.

Quote
The rover works of course but only on Earth. 

Why only on earth?  The rover would have been designed, built and tested for the expected conditions on Mars.  If it couldn’t meet the requirement specs, the scientists and engineers working on the project would know.  Not sure what you think would make it only work on Earth, but whatever. 

This of course applies to every system and subsystem of any spacecraft/probe/lander/rover.  For every single part they’d either need to build it for real, or involve all the relevant people in faking something that still looks credible to everyone not in on it, whilst hiding the real results.  All those people are security risks who could deliberately or inadvertently blow the whole operation.  Easier and safer just to build something to spec.

Quote
Then it is loaded on a rocket that takes off and disappears in the sky.

Oh, the rocket just “disappears into the sky”, does it?  Great detective work there. 

However, building the rockets is much the same situation as with the craft.  Everyone working on the rockets knows exactly what they are and aren’t capable of.  If a rocket couldn’t deliver a specified payload to a specified trajectory everyone would know about it. 

What’s more, the weight, thrust, fuel, etc specs of the rockets are publicly released.  Orbits and trajectories can be calculated by anyone.  Have any Fake Spacers even bothered to check the calculations themselves?  Or is that too much like putting in some actual effort?

Also, spacecraft are tracked by radar and by their transmissions by  other spaces agencies and civilian stations, so that’s a whole load more people who need to be in on it.

Quote
Only a few people at NASA ground control knows that the rocket will never arrive anywhere.

Ridiculous.  As well as maintaining the conspiracy with international agencies, and the suppliers of the rockets and craft, now they need to fake everything internally well enough to fool their own staff of incredibly well qualified and highly skilled staff? 

Those few Illuminati (or whatever) higher ups must be real workhorses, to manage not just all the normal things for running the operation, but also faking everything to fool the majority of their own staff, as well as the rest of the world.  The people they’d have to fool are literally pouring over the data all day every day, and none of them ever spot anything suspicious?

Quote
So they report regular progress, etc.
The arrival Mars is 100% Hollywood studio work again with some NASA ground control staff playing their roles. Finally the rover is put on Mars (i.e. Earth) and NASA can show films about it. Etc, etc.

Sure, sure. 

So as well as faking the engineering effort (or making it for real), faking the telemetry, faking the instrument data, now you’d need to bring in whole teams of “Hollywood” crews, CGI artists, and whatnot for the images and videos to present to the public.  Again, every single one is a security risk. 

Why bother with all of that when it’s easier to at least try to do for real?  Its embarrassing when a mission fails (which they do), but nothing compared to being caught cheating. 

So what’s the sum total of evidence the Fake Spacers have uncovered for half a century of alleged deception (to the best of my knowledge):

A) Number of whistleblowers = 0
B) Number of leaked documents pointing to conspiracy = 0
C) Number of engineers/technicians/scientists working on the projects claiming something didn’t add up in the specs or data = 0
D) Number of technical issues uncovered that’s confirmed by anyone who actually knows what they are talking about = 0
E) Number of scientists who have studied the results or samples who doubt their authenticity = 0

And yet:

F) Number of photos you all think look a bit funny (yet are easily explained) = Lots
G) Amount of personal incredulity = Off the chart

Conclusion:  Fake Spacers have had decades to find some actual evidence and have absolutely nothing.

Quote
Same scenario as for the Apollo 11 trip 1969. What a waste of money.

You’re right about one thing.  It’s as implausible now as it was in 69.  More so in fact as they’d need to maintain the conspiracy started all those years ago.

Thanks for clarifying many things. I appreciate it very much.
So the US Perseverence rover + rocket has gone to Mars and will arrive there after a 200+ days orbit trajectory in space. Upon arrival Mars gravity attracts rover + rocket! They will drop down on Mars. But how?

I presume you have the same access to the internet that I do. Look it up. There are a million documents, images, videos that show exactly how.

On Earth US space crafts drop into oceans full of water and USN pick them up. But on Mars there are no oceans or US Navies so how to land? Drop straight on the ground?

Russia's Soyuz drops on the ground.

Is the rover designed for it? I know Mars gravity is weaker than Earth's but dropping something on Mars from space normally creates a crater = hole in the ground = nothing else.

I presume you have the same access to the internet that I do. Look it up. There are a million documents, images, videos that show exactly how.

Assuming the rover arrives safely without creating a crater, it will then drive around and look for life and check the weather and report back to base/Earth. And then? What to do with the data?
Do you know any PhD expert on Earth capable to make any sense of such data from Mars?

Are you just patently against exploration, science...progress of any kind? Just because you don't know how to analyze data means that no one else does? So if you don't understand something or don't know how to do something you're convinced that no one else on the planet possibly could? What's wrong with you?

Hm, landing on Mars is not the same as landing on Earth. But thanks anyway.
Question remains - what to do with any data received from Mars? http://heiwaco.com/chall6.htm .

What experts on Earth shall analyze this data and who is interested in it?

*

JJA

  • 4202
  • Math is math!
Re: Perseverence
« Reply #73 on: August 07, 2020, 08:23:15 AM »
Hm, landing on Mars is not the same as landing on Earth. But thanks anyway.
Question remains - what to do with any data received from Mars? http://heiwaco.com/chall6.htm .

What experts on Earth shall analyze this data and who is interested in it?

Landing on one planet isn't the same as landing on another plant, obviously.

All your questions are easily answered by looking them up. Are you truly incapable of learning?

You seem to think your confusion and ignorance is proof of a massive conspiracy. It is not.